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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sczacovi on February 20, 2004, at 8:56:53
In reply to Re: Barb, Re: Lamictal side effects » Dalilah, posted by Barbara Cat on August 3, 2003, at 13:52:10
I have a 12 year old son who was diagnosed with epilepsy when he was 8 years old. He was put on depakote and his seizures stopped, but he started getting very aggressive and mean. He would hurt his 3 year old brother on purpose, didn't seem to know the consequence of his actions and got hyper. The doctor then diagnosed him with adhd and put him on all different types of meds with the depakote. He was on concerta (made him more hyper), paxil (made him sleepy and more depressed) and risperdal (which totally put him in a severe depression) and straterra (which did nothing). I had enough. I told the doctor that I thought that the depakote was the whole problem and the other meds where just making it worse. I said we should clean out his system and get him off all meds to see if his behavior changes. He was clean and did o.k. but now he was not on any seizure medication and he was having a lot more seizure activity. I finally went to a new doctor at Children's Memorial and she put him on lamictal. Over time he got better, but he still had that anger thing and he would easily be brought to tears. Before he was diagnosed with seizures, it seemed he didn't know how to act socially. He was very immature for his age and he would breakdown and cry if things didn't go his way. For instance, if we were playing a board game and he lost, he would cry horribly. He doesn't know how to make friends and he's never been asked over to anyone's house. So, before all the meds he cried a lot, didn't like attention, lacked self-esteem and self confidence and was very disorganized. He was never aggressive. He started talking about suicide so we went to a neuropsychologist that said he was bipolar. He is now on lamictal, zyprexia and adderall. We had to decrease his adderall to 10mg because 20mg made him worse. The doctor said that's probably because he is not adhd. When you give someone meds for something that he doesn't have, it tends to make them worse. So now he are going to individual therapy, family therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. My husband and I are so frustrated. I'm doing all kinds of research and there are probably about 1,000 mood disorders he could fit. Now I'm thinking that before he went on any meds for anything, he was never aggressive, just wishy-washy crying, that maybe the meds are making him seem bipolar? It's like now he is aggressive/depressed where before meds he wasn't. Can these meds give you symptoms of other disorders? We put him through a lot of psychological testing and we will get the results next month. Hopefully they can pinpoint what the ++++ is wrong and we can get him healty again.
Posted by Toph on February 20, 2004, at 10:06:21
In reply to Re: Barb, Re: Lamictal side effects, posted by sczacovi on February 20, 2004, at 8:56:53
Sczac,
Maybe a little out of left field, but have you thought of getting a dog for your son? If you choose the right breed they can be the most loving and accepting animals of an owner with mood swings. Your son can gain self worth from being adored by his pet. If you have a dog park in your county it might be an area for socialization for the pet and your son. My children have grown and are finding their way in this world, but my Portuguese Water Dog (non-shedding), Gus, will be with me till death do us part. (Thankfully, my wife loves me too).
Toph
Posted by sczacovi on February 20, 2004, at 10:21:38
In reply to Re: Barb, Re: Lamictal side effects » sczacovi, posted by Toph on February 20, 2004, at 10:06:21
> Sczac,
>
> Maybe a little out of left field, but have you thought of getting a dog for your son? If you choose the right breed they can be the most loving and accepting animals of an owner with mood swings. Your son can gain self worth from being adored by his pet. If you have a dog park in your county it might be an area for socialization for the pet and your son. My children have grown and are finding their way in this world, but my Portuguese Water Dog (non-shedding), Gus, will be with me till death do us part. (Thankfully, my wife loves me too).
>
> TophThank you for your response. We actually have 2 dogs and 3 cats. What's really neat is that our chocolate lab sleeps with my son. Before that our husky/shepherd mix dog also sleep with my son. They say dogs can sense something and maybe they sense his needs or epilepsy. I don't know. We have trails behind our property and we go and take the dogs for walks and let them run free. I try to get my son out as much as possible, but he would rather play video games 24/7. We have restriction on the games so he doesn't get his way. I also tried camps, baseball, football, etc. He can't seem to hold on to any social activity. For example, if he doesn't get a hit whenever he goes up to bat, he gets angry and cries. He's like a sore loser but he isn't. It's weird. We never push for our children to be the best. We always say have fun and try and the word "perfect" is not in our family vocabulary. It seems we have tried a lot of things without success. Thanks again for your suggestion.
Posted by Toph on February 20, 2004, at 10:53:06
In reply to Re: Barb, Re: Lamictal side effects, posted by sczacovi on February 20, 2004, at 10:21:38
I hope the tunnel vision into the TV doesn't contribute to the seizure disorder. Sometimes all you can do is love them and let them find their own way. Most of us have struggled with self-image issues related to our mental illness. Maybe spending more time with other epileptics will help him eperience normal interaction with peers.
Posted by jackwade on February 20, 2004, at 16:03:30
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » HenryO, posted by Jack Smith on July 1, 2003, at 12:52:36
Does anyone know anything about Lamictal and if it increases your heart rate. I have been on it for a month or so and my blood pressure is way up.
Posted by Emme on February 21, 2004, at 9:44:04
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects, posted by jackwade on February 20, 2004, at 16:03:30
> Does anyone know anything about Lamictal and if it increases your heart rate. I have been on it for a month or so and my blood pressure is way up.
The timing of your BP increase matches when you started Lamictal (or when you hit a certain dose?) I haven't read anything about it, and a neurologist freind hasn't seen it in her patients. My pdoc says her other patients haven't complained of that. BUT she believes me when I stay it's a bit stimulating for me and that it might possibly be increasing my heart rate a little. It's been counteracted by other things I take.
I don't think it's driven my BP up. but I don't have a hard time believing it might to it for you. A lot of people find it increases anxiety at first. I had some irregular heartbeats while starting up. Not too often and nothing extreme and my internist wasn't worried. It stopped after a few weeks and I haven't had any of that since.
A benzo might settle your system down. A low dose of a beta blocker might be helpful while you see if your body adjusts to Lamictal. I find atenolol helps with the physical symptoms of anxeity and overstimulation. Atenolol doesn't readily cross the blood brain barrier and would probably be less likely to cause depression than the other beta blockers.
If you and your pdoc can find something that helps with your BP, it might be possible for you to ride it out for a while and see if you adjust to it - unless you deem it best to stop it.
Also, how quickly are you titrating?
Emme
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 24, 2004, at 9:37:33
In reply to Re: Lamictal side effects » jackwade, posted by Emme on February 21, 2004, at 9:44:04
My history...
I tried all the SSRI's didn't work) and have been started on Lamictal. Dr. says bipolar II. Started with 25mg for 2 weeks, 50 mg for 2 weeks and just started 100 mg 3 days ago. Taking Neurontin 400 mg 2 times a day to help with agitation. Just started on fish oil.My question...
The mind racing. Especially when trying to go to sleep (ambiam 10 mg helps to go to sleep. If I wake up at all it is almost impossible to go back to sleep. AD did help with this problem in the past. Will Lamictal eventually help with this?When did you start seeing results with Lamictal (how long did it take)?
Posted by DepNYer on February 24, 2004, at 12:01:25
In reply to Lamictal And Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 24, 2004, at 9:37:33
I don't post here often (more lurking to see what i can learn), but, if you are BPII, you should know that Lamictal is a good mood stabilizer, particularly for the depressive aspect, but it can induce hypomania. The racing thoughts may be such a reaction, and I would speak to your Pdoc ASAP about it.
Posted by Viridis on February 24, 2004, at 23:23:46
In reply to Lamictal And Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 24, 2004, at 9:37:33
Do you mean that it caused your mind to race, or that this was already happening and Lamictal didn't help?
If it's causing this, you definitely should speak with your pdoc in case it is inducing hypomania. If it's just not helping, it could be that you haven't reached a therapeutic level (which you also should ask your doctor about).
I started taking it about three weeks ago (I'm still at the 50 mg stage) and noticed some minor activation/restlessness at first, but this went away very quickly for me and I haven't noticed any other side effects. It does seem to have a mild mood-lifting/mellowing effect, so I'm hoping that these results will be more pronounced once I move to 100 mg. Overall, I've found it very benign so far, and have had no problems with interaction with other meds (Klonopin and Adderall).
Of course, everyone reacts differently, and if you think it might be destabilizing your mood then you really need to see your pdoc and sort this out. Good luck!
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 25, 2004, at 8:50:51
In reply to Re: Lamictal And Mind Racing » bruce_w6, posted by Viridis on February 24, 2004, at 23:23:46
I have had the mind racing before. Usually when I was taking AD it would go away after awhile. I am hoping the Lamictal will take it away after awhile.
> Do you mean that it caused your mind to race, or that this was already happening and Lamictal didn't help?
>
> If it's causing this, you definitely should speak with your pdoc in case it is inducing hypomania. If it's just not helping, it could be that you haven't reached a therapeutic level (which you also should ask your doctor about).
>
> I started taking it about three weeks ago (I'm still at the 50 mg stage) and noticed some minor activation/restlessness at first, but this went away very quickly for me and I haven't noticed any other side effects. It does seem to have a mild mood-lifting/mellowing effect, so I'm hoping that these results will be more pronounced once I move to 100 mg. Overall, I've found it very benign so far, and have had no problems with interaction with other meds (Klonopin and Adderall).
>
> Of course, everyone reacts differently, and if you think it might be destabilizing your mood then you really need to see your pdoc and sort this out. Good luck!
Posted by Lazarus on February 26, 2004, at 17:18:54
In reply to Lamictal And Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 24, 2004, at 9:37:33
When your mind races you are ruminating. I am BP2 and have experienced it. The Lamictal will not stop it. You will need to add lithium, Zyprexa or Abilify to stop it.
Lazarus
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 17:34:51
In reply to Re: You're ruminating, posted by Lazarus on February 26, 2004, at 17:18:54
Does anyone have some more ideas on how to stop this mind racing? I would like to avoid these drugs if possible. I was hoping the Lamictal would stop it when I get to a therapeutic dose. I am at 100 mg a day for the past 5 days.
> When your mind races you are ruminating. I am BP2 and have experienced it. The Lamictal will not stop it. You will need to add lithium, Zyprexa or Abilify to stop it.
>
> Lazarus
>
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 17:37:45
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
I see people post about coffee and Lamictal. Causes anxiety. Is it the coffee or the caffeine? Should all caffeine be avoided?
Posted by fluffy on February 26, 2004, at 17:47:11
In reply to Re: You're ruminating, posted by Lazarus on February 26, 2004, at 17:18:54
Um, yeah, that's what ruminating MEANS. And yes, it's been established that it's a big part of being biplar (1 or 2). But i disagree that there are only 3 drugs to stop it.
Lamictal MAY stop it. Everyone is different. Unfortunately, it makes for subjective decisions with you and your doctor. So while it's good to get advice and support from others on this board, it's dangerous to interpret other peoples' results as what your experiences will be.
Sorry--this just touched a nerve with me. I've been through SEVERAL drug trials, including one with LOW DOSE Zyprexa, which gave me stiff hands and heavy legs. Not a typical reaction---My friend takes zyprexa and has no problems.
In general, though, atypical AP's can stop racing thoughts. But so can ALL of the mood stabilizers, including the anti-convulsants and Lithium. I'm finding relief with good old fashioned Depakote. (esp. in the whirling thought area) But I went through Lamictal, Wellbutrin, Lithium, and Zyprexa before I found stability. (basically 8 months of drug trials).
Have you been prescribed a benzo to help you sleep and get you through the rough spots? At first, I resisted the idea of a Benzo, thinking,--oh no! I'll get addicted!! But damn--it sure did help. Those racing thoughts are REALLY annoying when you're just trying to rest.
Hang in there. Drug trials are really difficult!! Good luck with Lamictal. What dose are you at?
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
In reply to Re: You're ruminating, posted by fluffy on February 26, 2004, at 17:47:11
What are atypical AP's?
Um, yeah, that's what ruminating MEANS. And yes, it's been established that it's a big part of being biplar (1 or 2). But i disagree that there are only 3 drugs to stop it.
>
> Lamictal MAY stop it. Everyone is different. Unfortunately, it makes for subjective decisions with you and your doctor. So while it's good to get advice and support from others on this board, it's dangerous to interpret other peoples' results as what your experiences will be.
>
> Sorry--this just touched a nerve with me. I've been through SEVERAL drug trials, including one with LOW DOSE Zyprexa, which gave me stiff hands and heavy legs. Not a typical reaction---My friend takes zyprexa and has no problems.
>
> In general, though, atypical AP's can stop racing thoughts. But so can ALL of the mood stabilizers, including the anti-convulsants and Lithium. I'm finding relief with good old fashioned Depakote. (esp. in the whirling thought area) But I went through Lamictal, Wellbutrin, Lithium, and Zyprexa before I found stability. (basically 8 months of drug trials).
>
> Have you been prescribed a benzo to help you sleep and get you through the rough spots? At first, I resisted the idea of a Benzo, thinking,--oh no! I'll get addicted!! But damn--it sure did help. Those racing thoughts are REALLY annoying when you're just trying to rest.
>
> Hang in there. Drug trials are really difficult!! Good luck with Lamictal. What dose are you at?
Posted by Dalilah on February 26, 2004, at 21:06:15
In reply to What are atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
True, true, it's all different for everyone.
Most of us have spent years getting to any point of stability with our meds.I did not get relief from my depression with Lamictal til I hit 300mg. I need to take it along with Lithium and my anti-psychotic Seroquel. When I went up in dose I found increased irritation but it went away after a few days.
That's all I've got to say.
-Dalilah
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
In reply to What are atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
What does this mean "atypical AP's"?
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
In reply to What does this mean atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
(almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
Posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:35:51
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
Hey Bruce--
Sorry to use the abbreviated terminology on you without saying what it means. Atypical AP means Atypical antipsychotic. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, but they are known to have helped some people in stopping racing thoughts (i.e. anti-manic properties). Also--anti-convulsants such as Depakote and Tegretol are more on the anti-manic side of things. They may suit your set of symptoms better if Lamictal doesn't work for the manicky stuff.
What you are experiencing is indeed called ruminating. And it is associated with hypomania or mania. I'm assuming your diagnosis is bipolar I or II? If so, then racing thoughts are the numero uno sign that you are getting hypomanic. In fact, I'm having that problem today. In the shower this morning and on my walk, my mind was jumping all over the place with fragmented thoughts. None of them coming to completion, therefore none of them making much sense.
Most everyone who is bipolar experiences this. Even when I'm depressed, I have repetetive, negative ruminations.
Keep trying with the Lamictal. I did find that it made me agitated at first. I stuck with it and gave it a fair trial (4 months) and found that it didn't do as much as i needed as monotherapy. I've read by some on this board, though that it helped tremendously. In the end, I've stuck with Depakote, as it has controlled more of my symptoms.
Have you told your doctor about the racing thoughts? He may be able to prescribe something like an atypical AP (low dose). Try not to dig your heels in yet about any particular drug because it sounds like you are very new to this and fairly medication naive (meaning you haven't gone through the gamut of meds). If you are new to this, then drugs like LITHIUM and ANTIPSYCHOTICS sound really scary. But they are just another set of chemicals out there to help regulate the problems you are having. So you have lots of hope for future help if Lamictal doesn't cut the mustard alone.
Best of luck,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:53:28
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
If you haven't found this site, it's extremely helpful. I'm posting a link that describes hypomania and/or anxious depression.
If you have the time to read it, the whole site is very informative. There are detailed options on drugs and what symptoms they target.
Posted by Dalilah on February 27, 2004, at 12:10:35
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
Bruce,
I've experienced this mind racing you speak of pretty much my whole life. And if it's not out of control, not too much, it's what I like about me. I get a lot done, I think fast, etc. Lithium for me is the one that helps with mania, and seroquel (only a low dose at night) is much more important than I initially realized. I can't sleep without it. Yes, even before the Lamictal. The Lam is what brought me out of a depression that lasted for over a year straight. Of course I've had plenty of other depressions before that, but nothing that strong. I think Lam was not the only cure. It was time, my body needed that much time to go through it. Ouch, indeed.Anyhow, FOR ME, the atypical anti-psychotic seroquel makes me calm enough to live my life during the day and also sleep through the night, which obviously plays a big part in all this mood stuff.
Also the trick for me was to not take away all the "mind racing" cause I didn't want to be totally flat.
-Dalilah
> I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
> I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.
>
> When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
> When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
> (almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.
>
> I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
> I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.
>
> My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
> I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
> Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
> Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
> Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
> Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.
>
> I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
>
Posted by katia on February 28, 2004, at 13:42:43
In reply to Re: Mind Racing, posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:53:28
Hi Katy,
I was wondering about you. Sounds like Depakote is working?! That's great. Have you had any s/e from it? I just started on Trileptal and will probably add-on Wellbutrin. Yep - confirmed. I'm BP. Very dynamic moods I have. and ever changing!
Keep in touch!
Katia
Posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:24:53
In reply to What does this mean atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
> What does this mean "atypical AP's"?
Atypical AP's are 3rd generation. They are broadspectrum like the 1st generation but with less side effects.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:41:46
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
> I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
> I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.
>
> When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
> When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
> (almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.
>
> I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
> I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.
>
> My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
> I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
> Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
> Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
> Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
> Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.
>
> I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
>Seroquel or Zyprexa would be better meds for you. They put you to sleep by being anti-histamines + they improve your sleep by blocking 5-HT2a. If you are not keen on AP's you could try low dose AD's like Remeron, Doxepin, Trimipramine or Amitriptyline as they achieve sleep in the same fashion. I use Remeron myself, I find it turns off my mind & allows me to stop thinking excessively when I am trying to sleep.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KXo on February 29, 2004, at 11:12:14
In reply to Re: Mind Racing » bruce_w6, posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:41:46
Hello Panda!
Do you use Remeron just when you can't sleep or everyday? What dosage? Don't you feel tired the following day?
KXo> Seroquel or Zyprexa would be better meds for you. They put you to sleep by being anti-histamines + they improve your sleep by blocking 5-HT2a. If you are not keen on AP's you could try low dose AD's like Remeron, Doxepin, Trimipramine or Amitriptyline as they achieve sleep in the same fashion. I use Remeron myself, I find it turns off my mind & allows me to stop thinking excessively when I am trying to sleep.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
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