![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 67 to 91 of 115. Go back in thread:
Posted by maxx44 on November 19, 2003, at 21:06:12
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal, posted by ginger C on October 6, 2003, at 15:39:50
she needs a new dr. asap. no human may be on that dose level for years and not taper up to a year---see dr. heather ashton's site on withdrawal protocol. yes, she's addicted, but no currently educated dr. would IMHO take this course. this woman has been placed in great danger to herself, and (confirm with dr. bob)possibly others.
Posted by maxx44 on November 19, 2003, at 21:52:07
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by JESSsMom on November 19, 2003, at 17:09:42
benzos are a plague at this point. they have short term uses, but i and many others were put on them long-term with no adequate warning. you can't just stop. it's generally a long taper-down process, perhaps followed by what's termed 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---i got myself off of years on librium, but 'out-of-the-blue' 4 months later was hit with full withdrawal again. i couldn't believe it. as an ex 'hippy', i've seen drugs---and easily quit---but benzos? long-term? check dr. heather ashton's site---there you'll find a way out, if any.
Posted by glenn on November 20, 2003, at 17:17:25
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 19, 2003, at 21:52:07
Yes benzos have their problems, but a major factor in this seems to have been how they were used.
One might have thought that after barbituates and miltown doctors might have prescribed them carefully, however from what I have seen many of those who have problems were given them innapropriately ( ie for depression)in far too high doses and for far too long, and perhaps most importantly with no warning of possible addiction problems and with absolutely no guidance about how to come off them.
Xanax has been a lifesaver for me but I researched it very carefully and use it carefully!
Having mentioned barbs, miltown and benzos is paxil the next one??Glenn
Posted by dms777smd on November 20, 2003, at 19:35:52
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 19, 2003, at 21:52:07
> benzos are a plague at this point. they have short term uses, but i and many others were put on them long-term with no adequate warning. you can't just stop. it's generally a long taper-down process, perhaps followed by what's termed 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---i got myself off of years on librium, but 'out-of-the-blue' 4 months later was hit with full withdrawal again. i couldn't believe it. as an ex 'hippy', i've seen drugs---and easily quit---but benzos? long-term? check dr. heather ashton's site---there you'll find a way out, if any.
That is very strange how it hit you again 4 months later.I've never heard of such a thing.Are you sure it wasn't just all the years on and you just started having panic attacks?Or did it really feel like withdrawal.Also,were you getting off of, or doing any other drugs?Getting off of alcohol maybe?I kind of want to hear (in more detail)your story because it sounds strange to me.I've been through the worst alcohol withdrawals,but after I got through that they didn't come back.I just get panic attacks a lot.
Posted by dms777smd on November 20, 2003, at 19:44:03
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal » maxx44, posted by dms777smd on November 20, 2003, at 19:35:52
> > benzos are a plague at this point. they have short term uses, but i and many others were put on them long-term with no adequate warning. you can't just stop. it's generally a long taper-down process, perhaps followed by what's termed 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---i got myself off of years on librium, but 'out-of-the-blue' 4 months later was hit with full withdrawal again. i couldn't believe it. as an ex 'hippy', i've seen drugs---and easily quit---but benzos? long-term? check dr. heather ashton's site---there you'll find a way out, if any.
>
> That is very strange how it hit you again 4 months later.I've never heard of such a thing.Are you sure it wasn't just all the years on and you just started having panic attacks?Or did it really feel like withdrawal.Also,were you getting off of, or doing any other drugs?Getting off of alcohol maybe?I kind of want to hear (in more detail)your story because it sounds strange to me.I've been through the worst alcohol withdrawals,but after I got through that they didn't come back.I just get panic attacks a lot.Wait a minute,,I just read something on this "protracted withdrawal" and I think I've been fooling myself.I think I have the same thing because there is this site and they have a chart with what normal anxiety should be like,then what protracted withdrawal can be like.I have a lot of these symtoms but maybe I just drank for so long,and had so many withdrawals,that I forgot what normal anxiety felt like.Check it out,here's the link. http://www.benzo.org.uk/pha-1.htm
Posted by maxx44 on November 20, 2003, at 23:02:20
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 19, 2003, at 21:52:07
you'll note i was writing of librium and 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---it doesn't hit everyone. it seems dose and time of use related. also, we're all so different, 'blanket' statements don't always apply. PWS is considered possibly age related--but i've a 90+ year-old neighbor who just quit a life of smoking and moderate ativan use and didn't notice a thing. i think that's rare. i had stopped moderate drinking with the librium, but for Me librium withdrawal was characterized by violent urges, whereas previous xanax withdrawal, years before and allegedly more problematic due to short half-life just gave me insomnia. i don't have a major drinking history--can take it or leave it--for me the obvious fact was total similarity with previous symptoms of librium withdrawal, which is consistent with PWS---these episodes are known to decrease with time---dr. heather ashton, on the net, would probably term your panic PWS and advise riding it out, as the episodes diminish with time. i know panic--when you're in it you think you're dying and will grab any way out, but it sounds to me like you've got it beat. best wishes
Posted by KayLen on November 20, 2003, at 23:12:13
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal » KayLen, posted by Dr. Rod on November 18, 2003, at 1:16:38
> Thanks to Bill W and the 100 drunks that got together 67 years ago.....
>
> There is a next step and I don't mean a 13th step... You said you have no craving; put yourself in the "objective view" while:
> 1. Ill
> 2. Elated
> 3. Tired
> 4. Angry
> 5. Loaded
> If you can tell that person you see in the mirror that you have no craving even under these conditions, then perhaps you really have no cravings...
>
> Also, give up grumbling forever!!! Eventually you will have to change to seeking out others who are seeking goodness, truth, and beauty... Grumbling is driven by the morality of your childhood which is a collection of shoulds and don'ts... There is nothing good, true, or beautiful about shoulds and don'ts... They are opinions...
>
> Epictitus in 100AD pointed out, "The few control the many by opinion."...
>
> Opinion: information held confident without direct or immediate knowledge...... Dr. Rod$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I am not a "white Knuckler" I truly do not have a craving for alcohol...and
I am a "REAL" alcoholic. Also im not grumbling at all ..im gratefull that I am an alcoholic, otherwise I would not been shown the way to AA.
IMHO it has something for everyone on this planet.
I wont quote anything to you doc. I can only speak
from my experience...and I dont pass around hearsay ..everyone has their own interpretations,
i dont care for third ..forth...etc. interpretations ...I cannot speak for anyone but myself... It is odd you make remarks that i do not look for the good. One of the codes I live by is "Always Look for the good in everything...because you always find what you are looking for." I wasn't raised in the conventional way most children are..I was forunate not to have any of man's social views impressed upon me...Fortunate I am to have been taught to have an open mind and think for myself ...and never fear to question anyone or anything.
methinks you will do well by following your own advice doc.thank you for posting .KayLen points out: the many are led by the few because there are alot more lambs in this world than there are sheperds.
OPINIONS: they are like A--holes everybody has one.**smile**
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 0:48:11
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by glenn on November 20, 2003, at 17:17:25
interesting, as Captain Jack Sparrow would say, (pirates of the carribean)--i love humor. in my web ramblings i keep coming across references to ssris being addictive. after my bouts with benzos, on-going, and 3 years still 'the living dead' after only 3 months of risperdal clobbered me with 'atypical neuroleptic syndrome'---which was unheard of at the time---well, ssri trouble wouldn't surprise me. i was once the 'client'---i prefer that term with shrinks, of the great dr. feigner---whose institute did the fda workup of prozac, zoloft, wellbu---all i may say is the man truly looks as if a used car salesman---i'm not worried about tort, as truth is the best defense.
the fact is the guy was grossly irresponsible and just plain dangerous for me. i don't trust anything at this point, but the oldest tcas and maois---maybe deprenyl. i'm a known paradoxical reactor---it's in all my med records. in near 30 years from alaska(best dr. i ever had, retired head of uof mich neurosurgery), to maui (said smoking pot couldn't cause panic) to a san diego 'harvard top ten' (put on librium daily), to fla. (back on librium, then risperdal)---all in all if this bunch were profs of neuro-surgery, or gps, or broken leg fixers their chance at getting malpractice insurance would equal a snowball's chance on the surface of the sun. i know it's a tricky area, mistakes will be made---on the other hand, no other area of medicine is as safe for the incompetent. and the drug cos.? well, just search 'lithium and suicide'. money over life. makes the mafia look tame--but mobsters don't take that oath--'do no harm.'--people do need help, but when medicine yields ethics to money---time to clean house.
Posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 0:48:11
Back in 97 I had my first panic attack. I couldn't leave my house, had MANY phobias. I was put on buspar .. couldn't handle the "no feeling" I had, so dr tried to put me on prozac on top of the buspar. Also suggested switching to xanax. Needless to say, I feared the medicines, flushed them all (only took the buspar 2 months, none of the prozac) and sought therapy. After 6 months was panic attack free. I learned to talk myself down once it starts. Have never had a panic attack since.
Recently I became depressed, had a "breakdown" and started on lexapro (antidepressant similiar to celexa) 3 days ago. First night felt good, second day had a Full Blown Panic Attack that I could not control, and third day started feeling a little emotionless. Have had palpitations, tremors, and no sleep. I am only taking 5mg right now, but my body is ultra sensitive to meds.
Question is, has anyone else used lexapro that has anxiety and depression? What type of side effects did you experience? Any other info would be great!
My doc now says I probably have depression due to my anxiety (I THINK alot, and have trouble relaxing). Suggests xanax to take as I need it, not on a regular basis. Afraid I may feel like a zombie again. Afraid to become addicted...
If anyone has some insight I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 13:47:48
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
i'm unfamiliar with lexapro---but any odd or unpleasant symptoms from a med should be immediately reported to the dr. i learned to stop some panic with distraction, like checking my car's tire pressure or fiddling with loved old cameras. but apparently i also have a damaged cardiac (esophogeal) sphincter and that can make things worse. wellbu knocked me to the floor for hours---i couldn't move, just 'vibrate' from the inside out. my panic is considered chronic, but i've gone years with no problems. stress is a key factor, and panic has a way of makeing it worse. i pray things improve for you---one important thing---if you've ever had trauma to 'the gut' area, like a hiatal hernia, panic will show up in many cases. and i'm sure you've noticed there's 'little panic' and then there's 'the big one'---your dr. was wise to warn you on xanax. i wouldn't touch the stuff unless one Knows a whopper's hit you. best wishes.
Posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 13:47:48
Thanks for info...
I have had problems with ulcer since age of 6.. Guess I was a very tense little person back then too!
Sucks, cuz anxiety, OCD, and Bipolar run in my mother's side of the family, all first blood line relatives!
I can deal with anxiety attacks, just can't deal with being bitchy all the time otherwise.. have stayed away from meds for a long time, but need to do something.
I am so in tune with my body, it's not a good thing. Wish someone could slip me pills to see how I react without knowing I took it.
Anyone, comments?
Anyone else have my same experience? Anxiety attack from anti-depressant?
Thanks for any input!
Posted by awatts on November 21, 2003, at 16:03:14
In reply to Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 8:38:45
> My doc now says I probably have depression due to my anxiety (I THINK alot, and have trouble relaxing). Suggests xanax to take as I need it, not on a regular basis. Afraid I may feel like a zombie again. Afraid to become addicted...
> If anyone has some insight I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!True, you don't want to take Xanax on a regular basis, but I find it great for emergencies. I always carry it. I take Klonopin, 0.5mg 3 times a day. I have not developed a tolerance and it handles moderate anxiety. I also take 150mg of Effexor XR, and Inderal. These are working very well for my anxiety and depression.
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 16:47:16
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
soinds like you got 'roughed-up' as a child. me to. dad was a steady worker but 'closet' bipolar, mom was hypomanic with 'explosive disorder'---i was their hockey puck. as we age that may easily lead to anxiety and panic. as for pills? i'd try running and strong aerobic exercise and avoid anything stronger than non-prescription benadryl.
it works, it's cheap, and no addiction problems. if it comes down to needing a dr., looking back, i wish i had never seen a pill---i'd try support groups (be carefull, because 'dope' pushers often attend groups hunting for 'customers')---and i'd try a good talk therapist,phd not md. finding a 'gifted' talk, cognitive therapist is kind of like 'trust the force'---one way which may help is asking others and fireing any that say things that are overly critical and make you feel worse. it's very important to remember cognitive talk therapy doesn't work like a pill---it's slower, but with the right person you will see things getting better and better as time goes by. certainly if you have a problem with 'self-harm' risk then it does come down to a shrink, a medical dr. these days most of them will have you seeing a talk therapist as well. a good shrink will want to 'look you over' perhaps several times before using meds---from hard-knocks, i would fire any shrink that looks at you for a half-hour and starts writing prescriptions. try another. it's the same deal as finding the right man or woman. as for anti-depressents Causing anxiety---it happens. nobody on earth is like you, but you. you're special. best wishes
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 17:49:28
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by awatts on November 21, 2003, at 16:03:14
very wise to keep a tight reign on xanax or any tranq---'major or minor', sounds like you've already been burned once. i'm curious on your saying 'i think a lot'. is this job-related, like web design, teaching, whatever. or is it the annoying stuff seen in depression characterized by 'rumination', where you just keep going over past events, largely thinking about yourself? i do that, and not surprisingly, it doesn't result in productive activity---just chews-up time, while making you more anxious or down. my whole family, relatives, have one form of affective problem or another---they are also very narcisistic---which i seem to have learned. many view this as no big deal, but it is. 'over-fixation' on self, obviously, may lead to a kind of pathological solitude. it's not the same as 'loving yourself'. you end up alone. on the other hand, if you're speaking of the common depressive 'rumination', that deal usually goes away when depression lifts.---perhaps you could elaborate? best wishes
Posted by dms777smd on November 21, 2003, at 19:19:30
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal , posted by maxx44 on November 20, 2003, at 23:02:20
> you'll note i was writing of librium and 'protracted withdrawal syndrome'---it doesn't hit everyone. it seems dose and time of use related. also, we're all so different, 'blanket' statements don't always apply. PWS is considered possibly age related--but i've a 90+ year-old neighbor who just quit a life of smoking and moderate ativan use and didn't notice a thing. i think that's rare. i had stopped moderate drinking with the librium, but for Me librium withdrawal was characterized by violent urges, whereas previous xanax withdrawal, years before and allegedly more problematic due to short half-life just gave me insomnia. i don't have a major drinking history--can take it or leave it--for me the obvious fact was total similarity with previous symptoms of librium withdrawal, which is consistent with PWS---these episodes are known to decrease with time---dr. heather ashton, on the net, would probably term your panic PWS and advise riding it out, as the episodes diminish with time. i know panic--when you're in it you think you're dying and will grab any way out, but it sounds to me like you've got it beat. best wishes
Yea,I think I do pretty much have it beat.And it makes me feel even better hearing you say the same thing.Thanks.But it does get pretty bad sometimes and I know I just have to ride it out.All those years of drinking really screwed up my brain and I know all of that isn't going to change overnight.Also,I read a lot of what Dr. Ashton wrote lastnight for the first time and she really knows what she's talking about.And benzos are not very far off from alcohol.
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 19:55:42
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal » dms777smd, posted by dms777smd on November 20, 2003, at 19:44:03
hey! no fair---right in my post i advised checking dr. ashton---then below you say You discovered it. naughty, naughty---but seriously folks, i'm just glad you got to her site, and posted that link, saves people time, and they're more likely to hit a link than log-off for a net search--thanks, i'm remiss on including links---i'll work on it. it may interest you that dr. ashton was instrumental in current uk law, which carries stiff legal consequences, with few exceptions, for scripting any benzo for more than 28 days. how this may stop current 'recreational-buy xanax on the street' users, or dr.-hopping, i don't know. but it will curtail and educate ethical drs. from inadvertantly addicting honest, but benzo-naive clients. when PWS hit me, i had never used a computer. i feel the data on dr. ashton's site would have resulted in me 'riding-it-out'---but my ignorance and fear that thoughts could become anti-social action just plain scared me back. so you're in a battle, but now you know the advesary's 'army-of-weapon'---it's insidious and somehow fixes on our greatest fears---but as any good general knows, battles are won by 'intelligence' more than which side has more canons. as DEVO said in song---'it's not too late, to whip it, whip it good'. best
Posted by maxx44 on November 21, 2003, at 21:36:49
In reply to Re: Xanax Withdrawal, posted by AmigoMarko on November 14, 2003, at 0:02:44
a major error i made in the 70's, when drs. were still terming cocaine a 'pot-like' recreational drug, was not understanding how different each person is. i tried it for a month and just quit. no problems. my ex tried a line just once---the next day she seemed to have the flu. she asked if there was any of 'that stuff' left. there was residue on the paper it came in. she sniffed it and Bam! 'flu cured'. i'd never seen such. but i knew what it meant. we were very different, something i had never considered. or seen. i'm not you, but in the 80's klonopin was the darling of shrinks using benzos on bipolars, mostly due to drug co. hype and its longer half-life vs. xanax. i've been on 4 benzos and my experience is a benzo is a benzo---when you run out. which is to be avoided---they all require a long taper in long-term daily users. the half-life of xanax is hours vs. days for klonopin. so it's easy to see one may consider klonopin less addictive, as with librium or valium, which also have long half-lives, unlike xanax. you don't get whacked for days, during which time you feel fine---then look out. withdrawal onset is swift and intense. this is not erudite data from someone who's never been there, nor is it relevant to only me---i've seen many klonopin users, as my second wife, go thru this. it depressed her, as me, and every time she just quit i had to take her to the nearest er, where i heard the drs. tell her the same thing--'see there, you're bipolar and need this as a diabetic needs insulin.' bulldung. this woman was the secretary of the screen writer's guild in west LA, and a screenwriter, brilliant. when she had one of her scripts go into production the stress was high, and she was scripted klonopin.
that finished her. klonopin is known to precipitate depression in some. your other meds may be masking this, or you're lucky. for you klonopin may be less addictive---but now, it's generally seen as perhaps the most addictive for the average benzo user. we're all different, but i'd talk this over with my dr. best wishes
Posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 22:02:17
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
I waited 20 years thinking that way. Its been a wild and hard life. Would I do it that way again? no answer to that...
Yes there is someone, you. You can slip your self something and if you dont like it You can stop
Good Luck
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 0:16:11
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » jewelzz, posted by femlite on November 21, 2003, at 22:02:17
kinda cryptic response---did you mean you 'waited' 20 years, or 'wasted' 20? as for depression and anxiety, they often go together. the reason i asked about 'thinking' was you placed it in BOLD print. perhaps my response didn't show up. i've noticed a few things on this board---you don't always see the entire thread unless you click on 'thread' at the top. yeah, it's unfortunate some of us get 'the wild ride', but we do. hard to say if lexapro caused panic, but true coincidences are rare. best regards
Posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 21:00:29
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by jewelzz on November 21, 2003, at 14:35:34
> Thanks for info...
> I have had problems with ulcer since age of 6.. Guess I was a very tense little person back then too!
> Sucks, cuz anxiety, OCD, and Bipolar run in my mother's side of the family, all first blood line relatives!
> I can deal with anxiety attacks, just can't deal with being bitchy all the time otherwise.. have stayed away from meds for a long time, but need to do something.
> I am so in tune with my body, it's not a good thing. Wish someone could slip me pills to see how I react without knowing I took it.
> Anyone, comments?
> Anyone else have my same experience? Anxiety attack from anti-depressant?
> Thanks for any input!I have been on Lexapro since Feb. w/good results (dx - PMDD and depression). I have never suffered panic attacks befor, but I did experience several in 4th week. At the time I became very upset and was ready to quit, but encouragement from others here helped me through it. I believe it was a side effect of Lex, have not had any more since.
Best of luck!~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 22:11:23
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » jewelzz, posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 21:00:29
evidence keeps piling up that the ssris may be addictive and lead to some scary events i prefer not to mention. the NAMI site is good on that. if you're bitchy, and 'down' sometimes, i'd sure put up with that vs. pills. unless you truly feel yourself a danger to you or others, be bitchy. i had an explosive temper, if provoked---but making lots of money was easy. a dr. said take lithium---no more temper and no more money---i feel my biz ability was linked to my temper---so bitch away. at least it's still you. best wishes
Posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 23:38:46
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 22:11:23
Just curious, are you male or female?~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 23:52:49
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by Mariposa on November 22, 2003, at 23:38:46
father of 9---and still alive. regarding the different effects i've seen, sex is a factor that drs. haven't caught up to, as it were.
Posted by Mariposa on November 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression???, posted by maxx44 on November 22, 2003, at 23:52:49
> father of 9---and still alive. regarding the different effects i've seen, sex is a factor that drs. haven't caught up to, as it were.
I can't just be bitchy as it were...if I had continued unmedicated I am sure I would have been fired from my job (customer service), divorced from a truely wonderful man, and involved in some kind of road rage accident. I feel normal again, like I haven't felt in years, and all the problems I mentioned are not problems anymore. I do not relish the thought of taking meds, I have avoided it for years. For now there is one less bitch in the world.~~~8|8
Posted by maxx44 on November 23, 2003, at 0:37:37
In reply to Re: Xanax - Lexapro..Is it anxiety or depression??? » maxx44, posted by Mariposa on November 23, 2003, at 0:01:00
well, road rage is harmfull social activity---and you don't want to fired. as for divorced, it's a funny world. my ex had a tempestuous father---not abusive---but when my mood became more placid---she was 'out-of-love'. i'm glad it's working for you. your previous posts seem to say it wasn't. you seem to be talking 'wild thang'---your husband will probably be pleased---my ex has her problems that most don't. but, for protection, i'd check the net on any med on a regular basis to stay informed. best wishes
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.