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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 52 to 76 of 735. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jug on November 7, 2003, at 21:43:14
In reply to Re: They're AWFUL!!!!, posted by geo on September 18, 2003, at 15:08:59
> Hi, I'm a little late to this thread.. I just quit a 375mg a day Effexor regimen cold turkey. That was four days ago and I've been pretty dizzy and having weird dreams, but not too bad overall.
>
> I was told by a pharmacist that it takes about 5 days for it to get completely out of your system. Does this mean the withdrawal effects will stop after 5 days or could they linger for weeks? Has anybody else had a similar experience with quitting a fairly high dose cold turkey?
It was the worst drug I have ever experienced withdrawing from. It took me weeks of decreasing to finally get off of it. I thought that I would go crazy getting off of it. I had to break the final doses into pinhead sized pieces. The electic shock feelings and shakes, etc. continued for about a month. I wish you luck.
Jug
Posted by Jug on November 7, 2003, at 21:49:55
In reply to Re: They're AWFUL!!!!, posted by karen t bag on October 13, 2003, at 4:20:04
> im gradually tapering off effexor - gone from 75mg to 37.5 - half a tablet twice a day - side effects are already hitting one week on - angry or tearful - screaming at the kids over nothing - raedy to cry at the drop of a hat - and such vivid dreams - is there anyone out there i can chat to??? im dreading cutting it out completley
>
> thanksCome off very gradually. It has been a few years now since I was on Effexor and I still remember how hard it was to get off of it. I had the help of clonazepam for my nerves and then reduce the doses slowly down to pin sized pieces. This drug should be removed from the market. Good Luck.
Jug
Posted by specialme503 on November 7, 2003, at 22:37:33
In reply to Re: They're AWFUL!!!!, posted by ladylight57 on April 11, 2003, at 16:16:41
I'm 18 and my doctor and I decided to start taking Effexor a little over a year ago. It was a really hard adjustment for like two weeks and it worked like a charm. I moved away from home to go to college and the Effexor is really messing up my system... If I miss taking (or ever a couple hours later that normal) a pill my whole body goes crazy. I can't make it to classes because I'm puking in my dorm and I nearly pass out at work if I am able to stay awake at all. So I really want to get off, but I know my body won't let me do that easily and I am all alone up here. I don't know what I should do. I need some advice.
Posted by karen t bag on November 8, 2003, at 8:04:50
In reply to Re: They're AWFUL!!!! » geo, posted by Jug on November 7, 2003, at 21:43:14
hi,
i stopped taking any effexor last monday - five days ago and i cant sleep its driving me crazy if i get four hours a night im lucky - its getting so bad today im frightened to drive in case i crash the car - ive gone from sleeping lots to not at all - did anyone else have this?
Posted by karen t bag on November 8, 2003, at 8:06:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - crashed and burned, posted by Dr...Not! on November 7, 2003, at 20:46:31
> Well, that went well (NOT)! I'm back on Effexor XR after 4 days off! The withdrawal was too awful, so we're going to keep me at 75 mg for a month, then cut down by 15mg for a month, and then another 15, and then 7 and 7.
>
> As it was, Sunday am (5 days ago) was supposed to be my last dose, but by Fri I couldn't stand the nausea, crying, nightmares and sweating any more.dont worry you did your best - i cant beleive doctors put us on this in the first place - im sure it should be banned - but keep going - we are all out here for you
xxx
Posted by Clayton on November 8, 2003, at 15:41:21
In reply to I don't know what to do, posted by specialme503 on November 7, 2003, at 22:37:33
Here's a wild guess and that's all it is because I'm no pro. Remaron enhances both Seratonin and Norepinephine levels but does so by increasing production, not blocking reuptake like Effexor.
IF (ask your doc?) these terrible withdrawl synptoms I've been reading about in this thread are due to decreased levels of neurotransmitters, Remaron might help. Remaron, itself, is not too hard to discontinue - NOTHING like Effexor - and you can taper it down as fast as your withdrawl symptoms from Effexor abate. Remaron starts really working in about 3 days (my experience). It doesn't have sexual side effects.
Ofcourse, this might be way of the mark. If the withdrawl symptoms are due to Effexor's "dirty" side effects or cesation of it's physical action on the receptors, then Remaron may be USELESS for you.
Longer term, Stratera with Remaron may be a good option for you. You will have synergistic support for norepinephrine levels (increased production in combination with enhanced retention of what's there). The Remaron will also support your seratonin levels, replacing Effexor in this role.
I am currently taking Paxil and Remaron in combination. The pair have really saved my life!!! Paxil, alone, was only about 20% effect. I have borderline AD, mood depression, SAD (the worst!) and insomnia that just will not relent. All these symptoms improved by at leasr 90% since I started Remaron. And not one single SAD attack in the five months I've been on it! I formerly used Xanax for Socoal Anxiety and it's a great drug for panic attacks, but addictive and I WAS addicted and abusing it. I am now of it completely. I feel no need for it and now my cognitive abilities and memory are improved because the benzo is out of my body.
Good luck! I hope those withdrawl symptoms start to ease very soon!
Posted by Camille Dumont on November 8, 2003, at 19:48:05
In reply to Wild Guess : I don't know what to do » specialme503, posted by Clayton on November 8, 2003, at 15:41:21
You have no idea how much it scares me to read all the withdrawal stories about Effexor. I've been on it for about a year now and I dread the day I'll have to go off it.
I remember when I was only on 75mg and I went cold turkey for 2 days and it was pure hell. Now I'm no 225 and I'm so very very afraid.
I wonder wether its better to tamper it off and get less brutal side effects but over a long period of time or to take two weeks off, lock oneself in one's room, flush the pills and wait it out.
Has anybody ever tried going cold turkey and succeded?
Posted by Dr...Not! on November 8, 2003, at 20:30:26
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - crashed and burned, posted by karen t bag on November 8, 2003, at 8:06:37
I may have just posted part of something. Sorry.
I cut a finger today and have a big bandaid on it, which just caused a "finger spasm" or something - I hit <Enter> 2 or 3 times.
[Finger spasms, or accidental cuts on finger, are not side effects or withdrawal symptoms usually associated with Effexor XR, so don't worry about THOSE]
Posted by Dr...Not! on November 8, 2003, at 21:04:05
In reply to Breaking Off . . . (are we rolling, Bob?), posted by Dr...Not! on November 8, 2003, at 20:30:26
Although it is almost Thanksgiving,
COLD TURKEY is NOT AN OPTION
for Effexor withdrawal.Many, many posts have listed problems people had when trying to drop Effexor using the "cold turkey" method.
GRADUAL WITHDRAWL SEEMS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT!!!!
Find a doctor who will work with you on this. Cut back on your dosage in small increments (Effexor XR capsules are issued in sizes of 37.5, 75 and 150 mg, so I reduced dosages by 37.5 at a time). I started at 300mg/day. After each reduction in dosage of 37.5mg, I stayed at the new dosage for a full month.
However, towards the end (and while my doctor was away on vacation) I turned into a smarty-pants and wanted OFF ASAP, so (contrary to doctor's instructions, of course) I dropped to 112.5mg, to 75mg, to 37.5mg, to zero with only a week between . . . and now am sadder and wiser and back on 37.5mg (and possibly more) because my body couldn't handle it.
It is true that SOME people do not experience withdrawal symptoms.
However, MOST people do !!!
A N D . . .
the longer you have been on Effexor and the higher your dosage during that time, the more severe your withdrawal symptoms will be.I just read (in another area of Psycho-Babble) that people take Benadryl to lessen Effexor's side effects or withdrawal symptoms. The post did not say what symptoms were being addressed, but I'm going out tomorrow to get some Benedryl!
Posted by karen t bag on November 10, 2003, at 10:58:24
In reply to Ever tried cold turkey?, posted by Camille Dumont on November 8, 2003, at 19:48:05
> You have no idea how much it scares me to read all the withdrawal stories about Effexor. I've been on it for about a year now and I dread the day I'll have to go off it.
>
> I remember when I was only on 75mg and I went cold turkey for 2 days and it was pure hell. Now I'm no 225 and I'm so very very afraid.
>
> I wonder wether its better to tamper it off and get less brutal side effects but over a long period of time or to take two weeks off, lock oneself in one's room, flush the pills and wait it out.
>
> Has anybody ever tried going cold turkey and succeded?Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been gradually tapering off effexor for weeks - took my last 37.5mg dose last monday - seven days ago - side effects have been at their worst today - feel so dizzy etc - i would gradually taper off over months if necessary with your doctors helptake care
karen
Posted by Camille Dumont on November 10, 2003, at 13:01:08
In reply to Re: Ever tried cold turkey?, posted by karen t bag on November 10, 2003, at 10:58:24
> > You have no idea how much it scares me to read all the withdrawal stories about Effexor. I've been on it for about a year now and I dread the day I'll have to go off it.
> >
> > I remember when I was only on 75mg and I went cold turkey for 2 days and it was pure hell. Now I'm no 225 and I'm so very very afraid.
> >
> > I wonder wether its better to tamper it off and get less brutal side effects but over a long period of time or to take two weeks off, lock oneself in one's room, flush the pills and wait it out.
> >
> > Has anybody ever tried going cold turkey and succeded?
>
> Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I've been gradually tapering off effexor for weeks - took my last 37.5mg dose last monday - seven days ago - side effects have been at their worst today - feel so dizzy etc - i would gradually taper off over months if necessary with your doctors help
>
> take care
> karenThe thing is, the time I went without it for 2 days was accidental because I forgot my pills ... lets just say that now I don't forget anymore :P
I'm thinking about doing it cold turkey when the time comes because I know myself. I'm not patient ... I'll never be able to endure months of side effects ... and I do have to work every day.
I think that as long as going cold turkey poses no super major health dangers I'd rather feel like I'm dying for say two weeks or so rather than feel sick for months.
Posted by KimberlyDi on November 10, 2003, at 13:54:46
In reply to Wild Guess : I don't know what to do » specialme503, posted by Clayton on November 8, 2003, at 15:41:21
I don't know if Imipramine is similar to Remeron but the Imip seems to be helping me withdrawal from Effexor.
PDoc and I were deciding between Remeron and Imipramine because both have sedating side effects, and Imip won because of the notorious weight gain with Remeron.
KDi in TX
Posted by Dr...Not! on November 10, 2003, at 17:31:44
In reply to Re: Ever tried cold turkey?, posted by Camille Dumont on November 10, 2003, at 13:01:08
Please believe me, cold turkey is NOT a smart choice. One of the physical symptoms I'm having during my slooooow withdrawal is an irregular heartbeat. If I had suddenly stopped taking the Effexor XR (i.e., quit "cold turkey"), my heart might have suddenly stopped, too!
Yes, you want off NOW. So do I. There are several very good reasons why we should not stop our medication NOW.
1 - "Cold turkey" can result in severe and possibly serious withdrawal symptoms.
2 - The end of the year (and "the Holidays") are here with all the emotional baggage we've saved up through the years. This is not the time to make changes in whatever keeps our lives in balance.3 - All that end-of-year stuff, including indulgent foods at odd hours of the day and night and celebrations and preparations that last until the wee hours of the morning, is going to upset your body's equilibrium. Again, now is not a good time to expect our body to absorb another weird stress, such as a withdrawal of chemical support.
I pray that you will reconsider your decision to withdraw "cold turkey."
Posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 2:20:51
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by Dr...Not! on November 5, 2003, at 16:19:07
I am so thankful that I got to see your message tonight. I am going through these same awful withdrawls that everyone else here is.
Like you, my faith in God & my wonderful job & family is all that's holding me together right now. I was only on Effexor XR for 9 mos & only went up to 75 mg on my dosage. I have now been off it for one week.
All I want to do is sit & cry. I can't sleep, I'm achy like I have the flu & I can't concentrate on anything. I actually quit Zoloft cold turkey about 8 years ago & experienced NOTHING like this.
Please know that if you need a sister in Christ to walk through this awful experience with, I am here & ready to listen. All I ask is that you listen to me as well!
Posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 6:20:44
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 2:20:51
dear jbc,
hang on in there - im on day eight now and feeling a little brighter - only thing is i am having uncontrollable dizziness - nearly fell over in town yesterday - think people thought i was drunk! if only!!!!!
it has to get better
karen
Posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 8:21:32
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 6:20:44
Thanks Karen! I know about the dizziness. At some points I feel like I did the time my aunt accidentally gave me 4x as much cough medicine as she should have when I was about 6 yrs old. I went from side to side down the hall - first bumping into one wall, then the other. Too funny!
I finally gave in & took a day off from work today & shared with my boss what was going on. I hadn't even told him about what I was experiencing. I guess there was a shame issue going on. Has anyone else experienced that when trying to explain everything to folks in your life? Just curious!
Posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 9:00:05
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 8:21:32
hi,
so glad to hear its not just me and the dizziness - in reply to your question about telling other people - my husband is the only person who knows whats going on - i feel too 'ashamed' i guess to tell friends and family - i dont work - im enjoying being a homemaker so i know friends and family would do the 'whats she got to feel depressed about in the first place' - it makes me start to cry even thinking about it - i guess i need to make some new friends i can be completley honest with - how have you found people react when you tell them?thanks
karen
Posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 9:16:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 9:00:05
So far so good!?! I am blessed that even though I have to work, I get to work on the staff at my church. I support our Education Min, Children's Min & our Family Life Center Dir. They are all precious people who love me dearly & support me! They also keep things confidential which, sadly enough, can be tricky in a church!
I'm not sure where you live, so maybe we can't be traditional friends, but I'd gladly be your cyber friend!
Posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 12:13:02
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 9:16:45
HI JBC,
thanks for the post - i live in the uk in the midlands - im not sure where you are from
karen
Posted by jbc on November 11, 2003, at 12:43:59
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawl - I did it, so can you, posted by karen t bag on November 11, 2003, at 12:13:02
I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA. Almost right in the middle of the country. My heritage is Scottish, however. My maiden name was Forbes. About 17 yrs ago we found out there was a Forbes tartan. A friend of mine sent me a scarf made from it while she was in graduate school in St. Andrews. It is beautiful.
That may be more than you ever wanted to know. Anyway, Karen, please feel free to contact me directly at jbcoley@earthlink.net (This offer is currently for Karen only - all other e-mails will be ignored!). I look forward to hearing from you.!
Jana
Posted by Jasper on November 12, 2003, at 15:12:50
In reply to Cold turkey, posted by Dr...Not! on November 10, 2003, at 17:31:44
Well, wasn't I surprised to discover today (only two hours ago) that my Effexor addiction is REAL and much more serious than I ever imagined. I've been on Efffexor XR 75mg for about five years now. My mental health has come together nicely over that period. No more depression... no more illegal drug use... no more alcohol... great marriage... beautiful baby girl... etc. etc. everything's going great. Well almost. I started to have a sneaking suspicion that my ever present anxiety disorder and rising blood pressure were being caused by the Effexor. I couldn't figure out why else I would have high blood pressure and anxiety. I'm 40, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I exercise, etc. (interesting my GP never put 2 & 2 together) So I decided to stop taking the Effexor. I knew there would be some uncomfortable side effects associated with stopping since I had forgotten to bring my meds along on a weekend trip a year ago and fealt the ringing/shimmering in the ears. Two weeks ago I started taking half a capsule (opening and spilling half the little white balls down the drain and re-capping) every other day for a week and I figured it was now time to stop all together. Well today it is day four and after nearly fainting in my kitchen a few hours ago and feeling like my heart was going to explode I decided to do a google search on "effexor withdrawl." WHOOAA! I feel so freaking stupid but I had no idea! Now what do I do??? I have a few specific questions: I'm not even sure if the dose I'm on is strong or not? I'm definitely not ready/able/courageous enough to go cold turkey. What dosage schedule can I try to ween off? If I go back to my doc what dose should I ask for... what dosages do they make and what would be the last stepping off dose?How long should I taper off for? I will ask my doctor these questions but I have absolutley no trust in him now since he never even told me that Effexor was addictive in the beginning! Thank you so very very much, in advance, for any help anyone can offer.
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 16:59:39
In reply to Ohmygawd I feel so stupid, posted by Jasper on November 12, 2003, at 15:12:50
Jasper, I have had to go off Effexor twice and it's tough but you will make it.
- titrate down as slowly as you can weekly then i think when you get down to 37.5 or what ever the lowest does offered is then like your said spill out some of the capsule if even going every other day.
- I would also recommend a P doc as they kno best and finally many docs will recomment one dose of prozac as it helps with the withdrawl. good luck and i think there are lots of post about this. S
Posted by responsiblek9 on November 13, 2003, at 4:43:36
In reply to Effexor withdrawal symptoms!, posted by Becky on October 2, 1999, at 22:03:30
The effexor caused me internal intestinal hemmorage . Second SSRI to do so too. So now I have not just the gut pain but horrendous withdrawal symptoms. I never had this severe a withdrawal symptom form any SSRI before and I have been on Zoloft, paxil, and a few more I cant remember the names of . I have run out of meds I can try because of severe physical reactions most life threatening . But this one took the cake.
I already have physical problems with joint issues and this has made them unbearable. What can I do for these side effects. I am collapsing without warning ,with extreme weakness and heart arythmias and cant function. The sleep cycle reversed on me so I cant stay awake during the day and I am fighting that because with the sleep disorder I could not sleep but 4 hours a night for over two years. So I really need the 8 hours of sleep I am getting now. I was told ther SSRIs were not addictive. But this has not proven to be the case for this with me. I am pretty unhappy about it too. I have been given research stating otherwise from all over . And even found a letter stating from a researcher that patients should not be told these meds can be possibly addicting. I was actively trying to avoid addictive meds over the past 14 years because I know I have a problem with getting easily addicted to stuff from childhood issues. I am afraid to try anything else after two strikes in a row of this hemmoraging from SSRI"s and I cant take the MAOIs or the Tricyclics because of severe reactions to them previously.I have tried the atypicals like Seroquel and several like that and had several near fatal reactions here 5 years ago.
Currently I was on a low dosage of Effexor 37.5 for three months . Then went to 75mg per day split into two doses for 3 months. And I still got the near lethal reaction. I am so frustrated. Nothing that works has not ended up with these extreme problems with physical reactions that are so dangerous.
I am seeing my med doc tommorrow and bringing her the research papers that state the withdrawal symptoms and see if she knows how to help me get through this. The psych docs just scratch their heads and have told me " we dont know what to do"
The Effexor did have a funny effect when I was taking it though. It was like taking speed.
A real rush for a couple hours after I had taken it and would wear off in about 4 hours. Then I was at normal mode. Weird. I complained about the agitation problem it was causing and they gave me Alprazolam to try and remedy that. Wasn't working too well though . They may have to use the dosage the alprazolam works at as a SSRI reuptake and see if that will help. It is the only med I Dont have side effects with or physical reactions to. Odd . But I am scared of it because I know it is addictive . Catch 22 . Anyone else run into this dillemma . My poor therapist is spooked on this . And I am just miserable physically with the pain and weakness. I understand I had a rare reaction though. The meds works so well for many I know .
Frustrated in Colorado
Posted by Dr...Not! on November 13, 2003, at 17:53:46
In reply to Effexor almost killed me - now withdrawal, posted by responsiblek9 on November 13, 2003, at 4:43:36
I am taking Effexor XR, which comes in capsules of 37.5, 75, 112.5, 150 and 300 mg. I was taking 300 mg per day for about 8 years. I am now taking 75 mg per day, having accomplished withdrawl from the 300 mg over the past 5 months (part of which time I was holding steady on the Effexor and withdrawing from Klonopin and Serzone).
First of all, know that you will probably not get through this as quickly as you would like.
Second, start writing down what dosage you take at what time, so you don't forget when you decreased and by how much (trust me, you will forget).
Third, TAKE THE SAME DOSE EVERY DAY. Effexor is notorious for being picky, picky, picky within a 24-hour period. Halving the dose every other day will not help you reach your goal, it will just confuse your body and make the withdrawal worse!
The key for withdrawal, at least in my case, has been 1) to work with a psychiatrist who is supportive regarding withdrawal symptoms (none of that "it's all in your head" stuff), and 2) to give my body time to get used to a reduced dose before reducing the dose again. For example, I reduced the dose from 300 mg (2x150 capsule) to 262.5 mg (1x150, 1x75, 1x37.5 mg), had physical symptoms of nausea, palpitations, nightmares, sweating, light-headedness, whatever, and then continued on that dosage until the symptoms went away. Then, I stayed at that dosage for another week, with everything feeling OK. ONLY THEN was it time to reduce the 262.5 mg to 225 mg (1x150, 1x75 mg), and repeat the whole process.
Of course, we grow too soon old and too late smart. I'm referring to my stupidity in trying to "push" the process along instead of following what has been working all these months. So, instead of waiting for the last symptoms to work themselves out of my system at 75 mg, I dropped to 37.5, still had problems, and then stopped the 37.5 - and BAM ! Chills, shakes, nightmares extraordinaire, dizziness, nausea, crying - duh! Here I am, back at 75 mg, feeling OK (except for those palpitations) and planning to stay at 75 mg until at least after the New Year.
When I again start reducing the dosage, I will NOT be "splitting" the capsules, because Effexor is so PICKY, PICKY, PICKY. (I don't think counting the little white balls will work because the little white balls are not all the same size, and you can just forget about "eyeballing" how much is in each capsule half!! Not accurate enough!!) If I've let my body recover, that last 37.5 mg reduction should be do-able (I'll let you know).
The main point I'm trying to make is, whatever you do, DO NOT RUSH THE PROCESS. There is a tendency for people (myself included) to resent what we may see as the "wussy" way. We're tough, we tell ourselves. We'll bite the bullet and get this stuff out of our system. We don't like being dependent on a drug, because that means we're weak.
WRONG! If you have a headache, you take aspirin. If you don't, you're not "strong," you're stupid. You drive a car 20 miles to work, don't you? Why aren't you walking the 20 miles? Because the car is there, it is a tool, and you use it. You use a hammer to drive nails, you wear shoes to protect your feet from rocks . . . some of us need insulin to regulate our blood sugar and some of us need pills to keep our synapses synapping. If you are part of this group, you have no need to apologize to others - tell them to get a hobby and leave you alone.
In the meantime, you DON'T wear the shoes on your hands . . . which means, use tools appropriately, according to their instructions. With Effexor, this means taking your med at the same time every day, and decreasing your dose slowly and under the supervision of a doctor.
Gotta go - late for choir practice!
Posted by Jasper on November 13, 2003, at 19:40:26
In reply to You're not stupid!, posted by Dr...Not! on November 13, 2003, at 17:53:46
> Thank you so much Dr... Not!. I don't know why but it just feels good to hear from someone else that is going through the same thing. I really did feel stupid for being on a prescription drug for five years without knowing a damn thing about the withdrawal's that were waiting out there for me. Anyway I feel better now that I've been learning more about Effexor and feel more emotionally prepared to deal! Once I realized the other day that I was in for way more than I bargained for I decided to go back to taking the original 75mg, which I did yesterday morn and this morn. Weird thing i feel even more screwed up then before... the heart palpitations are scary. I got in the shower a few hours ago and felt like my head was going to zap (that actually hasn't happened to me yet but I've read about it here and in the shower I felt like I could easily see/feel that happening. ) So anyway I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow at 2 and I'm going to ask for a script for two months worth of 35mg xr. I'm going to take your advice and take it slow. I've been on this stuff for five years now anyway, what's another 2 months. Once I start taking the 35's tomorrow, I hope to be able to normalize from the reduction by Thanksgiving when I will have family visiting from out of town. After the new year I'll go cold turkey from the 35mg dosage and may try add in some Prozac as I've heard suggested here. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to share your experience. Good luck with your final steps as well! I hope to hear more about your experiences here later!
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