![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4910 to 4934 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by zinya on August 4, 2003, at 15:53:15
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr, posted by skipper on August 4, 2003, at 15:43:55
I dont' have an answer to your Q about specialists but when you say "cut down for a few days" that sounds very vague and irresponsible by your md. (albeit all too typical of what many report here -- and my own md. was particularly uninformative about side effects when he prescribed Effexor).
But, while you don't say what level you're at, the impression i have from months of reading here is that you MUST taper off very slowly and spending at least a week at each reduced level and even two weeks. It also seems that the final stage can be THE most important. Going from 37.5 to 0 must also be taken VERY slowly. Either by opening the capsules (you take XR?) and dividing them in half and then in thirds, fourths etc. and spending several days at each level. Or some people do it by going from 37.5 once a day to 37.5 every other day to every third day - but recently even such a plan didn't work for someone here who said they had to also open a capsule and phase out REALLY gradually. Another poster had the opposite experience. Dividing up granules wasn't as good for that person as the every other day approach.
But the idea of tapering off a few days sounds DEFINITELY problematic. Sounds to me like the tapering off should take at least a month (depedning on how high your level before quitting), step by step and a week or so at each step.
Good luck!
Let us know how it goes...
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 5, 2003, at 8:25:13
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr » skipper, posted by zinya on August 4, 2003, at 15:53:15
Posted by Scooter1 on August 5, 2003, at 9:26:55
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr » skipper, posted by zinya on August 4, 2003, at 15:53:15
Hi, I was just wondering how you are doing with your effexer withdrawel. I hope everything is ok with ya.... Please let me know, how you are doing with the Prozac....Scooter1
Posted by theo on August 5, 2003, at 10:06:49
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr » skipper, posted by zinya on August 4, 2003, at 15:53:15
I have a different opinion. When you get to 37.5, you can split granules but you are still going to have withdrawal effects when you finally get your nerve up to stop. I had effects dropping from 75mg to 37.5mg and god for bid someone weaning form 225mg and split granules, you would be on a six month wean! I would suggest when you are at 37.5mg to take 20mg Prozac the day after your last dose 37.5mg Effexor XR, it really does help because of the long half life. Do an "Effexor XR withdrawal" search on this site and you can get plenty of helpful hints.
Posted by theo on August 5, 2003, at 10:30:46
In reply to Theo, posted by Scooter1 on August 5, 2003, at 9:26:55
Doing great! The only good news about the Effexor XR withdrawal is you know it does end and you will survive! I strongly suggest if you do discontinue the Effexor Xr and go with something else, still take 20mg of Prozac the day after your last dose and take it for at least three days. Prozac has such a long half life that after just taking one, it takes a couple of weeks to leave your body. I felt immediate relief but wish I would have known to take it before the withdrawal kicked in. I saw my doc yesterday and after 3 weeks of Prozac I will be taking the following: Prozac Weekly 90mg
Wellbutrin SR 150mg daily
Xanax XR 1mg dailyAfter and if the slight anxiety sides wear off from the Prozac Weekly and Wellbutrin SR, I will drop the Xanax XR. The good news is if this combo doesn't work and I want to discontinue, I won't have to plan a weekend to go through hellish withdrawal. By the way a lot of folks on this site loosely use the term withdrawal. The "withdrawal" from Effexor XR is really a Serotonin drain, Serotonine Syndrome related effect rather than from the actual drug itself in my doctors opinion, this is why the Prozac is so helpful. I'll keep you posted but also let me know how you are doing.
Posted by bori on August 5, 2003, at 15:18:31
In reply to Re: effexor xr for chronic pain (esp. zinya) » bori, posted by zinya on August 3, 2003, at 21:11:13
Zinya,
I would love to read your post but I have had troubles navigating this website. How do I do it. Also, how can you search for recent threads rather than ones from last year? I am on day 4 of effexor xr and the nausea and dizziness are gone and it is just the headaches, head compression and jaw ache, along with almost numbness above my lip. The MD said to increase weekly but I am thinking that maybe I should do it every 2 weeks to give my body a better chance to adjust. Have you noticed any changes yet with the pelvic pain? Do you know about the yahoo group for vulvodynia? There is a link from Dr. Howard Glazer's website. It's helpful. Anyhow, I am interested to hear about all of your experience!
Bori
Posted by zinya on August 5, 2003, at 17:52:28
In reply to Re: effexor xr for chronic pain (esp. zinya), posted by bori on August 5, 2003, at 15:18:31
hi Bori,
I'm not the expert for giving directions on how to navigate around here :)) but i'll give it a try, plus i'm copying the initial post i was referring to here just in case so you can read it.
First, let me try to give you the "how to fish" rather than the fish itself :) ...
To get from here to the master psychobabble screen, go up to the top of this screen and there's a row of links. Hit the one that says just "Psycho-Babble." It will take you to the "main menu" of sorts. At the top of it, it gives you the names of some subset menu screens (like Psycho-Social-Babble) you can choose to explore. If you scroll down that page below those sub-menus, you come to the archived dates for past posts (on the main menu they seem to get archived at least once a week) and below that are the latest threads from the various submenus. That's where you would find the thread that includes my post which i was referring to and which i've also copied below. But if you go to the thread, you can also see the post i was responding to and the follow-up to it.
If you have trouble navigating the directions i hopefully made clear above, you could also just plug in the following to leap right to my post in the thread in question:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030802/msgs/247595.html
One other thing: To see earlier posts in this Effexor thread just open the top post visible now on this screen -- from earlier today or yesterday (I can't see it now while i'm typing this reply, but don't go to the original post from 1999. There's a line gap and then the next post below that is the one i'm talking about, which should be very recent.) When you open that post, it then re-adjusts the display of posts to move backward through time. Doing this allows you to scroll backwards through posts as far as you want to go. To get back to the present to open the very bottom post (or, again, if instead you go to the post just above the bottom one - if there's a line gap between it and the bottom that means you've scrolled back in time and you can advance in time again by again hitting the penultimate post and scroll forward batch by batch the reverse of the way you scrolled backwards. Or you can do "fast forward" by hitting the very bottom (and latest) post.
Is that at all clear? It's the only way i've learned to navigate. :)) Hope this helps. And here's the one post (below) i was referring to of my own just in case ...
Meanwhile, sounds like you're a tad better side-effect-wise. It's not a linear thing and some new effects surface as you go up to higher levels. I chose to do what you are debating and took twice as long to move up as what the doctor had advised cuz i'd had such a history of bad reactions to other a-d's ... And i did wait until i felt "stabilized" at a given level for at least a couple of days (with no or minimal side effects) before moving up. I'm not sure if that's necessary or helpful or wise but it's the way i did it. :)
zinya
Re: just more evidence...ADs protect the brain » jrbecker
Posted by zinya on August 2, 2003, at 13:16:26
In reply to Re: just more evidence...ADs protect the brain » SLS, posted by jrbecker on August 1, 2003, at 17:32:24
JRB,greetings ... I've just stumbled on this thread and went to the link you gave here to the prior thread as well - I'm double-posting this in both threads to hope to catch you.
I'm wondering if the experience I've been recounting to doctors who give me only glazed looks for the past 15 years could begin to be explained if I understand correctly the line of interconnection you seem to be outlining here between neural and (adrenal? and) depression-triggering 'damages'.
A brief history, as I know no other way to present my 'case study'. I lived 34 years with energy for anything I wanted, never knew what pain was really, not chronic pain. In 1981, after a serious roller skating accident which left me with a compression fracture between my 4th and 5th lumbars, i discovered a congenital anomaly (quite a unique one according to my chiropracter) involving an extra half a lumbar fused to my sacrum which has from birth presumably meant a pull on my right hip that creates something of an angle. Perhaps some childhood accidents like crashing on my coccix had some impact, but never chronic pain until that 1981 accident. It started first to manifest in sciatic pain for some years. Then a chronic viral infection beginning in 1985 entered the picture. By 1987, i crashed (compounded by the stress and grief of my father's death) into a 'black curtain' of zero energy and only at that point did the doctors look back and realize i'd been running with the chronic viral infection for 2 years, having gone in for sheer exhaustion, had blood tests but no one told me of the infection, figuring it would pass.
For two years from 87 to 89, recovery was elusive. Every time i would try to resume normal activity, which had included swimming between one and two miles a day prior to '87, i recrashed into zero energy even though i resumed with very gradual steps (like 1/4 mile only). Walking became a re-injuring activity. I was referred to various specialists who diagnosed Epstein-Barr, then Chronic Fatigue, also fibromyalgia, miofascial pain syndrome... I tried all kinds of traditional and nontraditional (eg acupuncture) methods.
I was given Prozac first in 89, later lithium (because of merely a one-day-ever manic episode and because i tend to do "fast talk" when i'm with a doctor trying to cram a lot into a visit and some then think i'm hyper but i'm not. What i've eventually come to realize is that my adrenal system, shown in blood work in 2000 to be depleted, is erratic but almost entirely on the no-adrenalin, no-energy side of the pendulum.
Okay, with that as some peripheral but converging background:
I've been telling my doctors for all these years that, in my lay terms, "My back goes out on me and then i just cascade downwards into no energy and feeling depressed." By which i mean that the nerve damage (pinched nerve) in my sacroiliac area -- or then also after getting hit in 1990 by a red-light-runner and suffering additional neck nerve damage from a concussion into my driver's window -- also enough nerve damage that i can no longer applaud as that hand clapping triggers nerve damage that also cycles into body-wide energy flagging and other downturns.
Doctors have been hard pressed to see how or why a reinjury to lower back nerve pain should be related to body-wide energy levels and depressive states. They seem to distrust me that i'm accurately assessing that i'm fine until a reinjury of my back and that that then alone launches a downcycle impacting depression.
Would an upshot of this research you have presented suggest that in fact there would be a plausible cause-effect linkage?
And, to get to remedies, as I'm now on Effexor (month 2 at 150 mg) after having tried without success Prozac, lithium, depakote, zoloft, paxil and celexa at various crisis moments over the past 15 years, usually having to quit due to side effects but sometimes because of no positive effect.
I have begun to wonder (since the Effexor I'd been led to hope would start to work on my adrenal system and show energy benefits by 150 mg levels but so far after 2 weeks at this level has shown none -- and i have had two back reinjuries -- rotated lumbar -- during this time period):
Would I perhaps be better off treating back injuries with stronger painkillers (I tend to try to get by with just 1/2 a vicodin which often is enough to be satisfactory but i've also learned that a full vicodin not only masks the pain but gives me actual energy restoration -- yet i am reluctant to take a full vicodin on a regular basis for fear of addiction), that perhaps if i did let myself take a full vicodin more immediately more regularly at the first sign of back pain, would i perhaps "envelop" the pain that perhaps then would not deplete (?) the adrenal system which then might not -- along the lines of what i gather from the research you cite -- trigger the depressive cycles??
I realize this can at best be answered on a theroretical level here based on a streamlined (!! believe me, you got the short version!) case study and no physical examination plus you are a researcher not a doctor. However, if you have any thoughts on the "logic" of the kind of connection I have long sensed intuitively lies at the root of this past 15 years of debilitation which has impacted my career and my ability to travel as i used to, etc. It's this lay sense that "my back (nerve damage in lumbar/sacrum) that goes out and then i cascade into depression that takes longer to recover from than the back pain itself."
Any thoughts? And apologies if this feels like an imposition in terms of being something out of your bailiwick.
thanks,
zinya
Posted by postpartumgal on August 5, 2003, at 19:36:30
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr » skipper, posted by zinya on August 4, 2003, at 15:53:15
just wondering...no one has mentioned...am I the only one who experienced post partum anxiety who WAS taking this drug?? As I said, the brain shocks have disappeared completely after 2 wks and now I'd never known I had taken it. I never did prozac, as my goal was to get off this stuff, not to replace it with something else.
and what on earth is Xanax XR????
Posted by Helaine on August 5, 2003, at 20:45:20
In reply to Re: Effexer and Effexer xr, posted by postpartumgal on August 5, 2003, at 19:36:30
Day 15 on 37.5 mg of effexor XR. I seem to feel like I am in a fog some of the time. But, what really concerns me is I seem to forget such obvious things for a few minutes. Like, peoples names that I have known for many years..phone numbers,simple words ect..it does come back to me after less then 3 min (but it frightens me and it feels like an eternity. My son told me where is was going and that scared me the most because I forget where he said he would be. But, as I said it came back in just a few minutes.At times I also feel anxious and the hot flashes makes me more anxious because my heart starts to race. Is this commom(especially the memory loss)? I am hoping the SE are going to pass!! I would appreciate any one that may have had experience with this or may know someone that has ...please let me know .
Thank you,
Helaine
Posted by Helaine on August 5, 2003, at 20:50:59
In reply to Short term memory loss??, posted by Helaine on August 5, 2003, at 20:45:20
Sorry..this was my 2nd letter but I forget to check "notify of later follow -ups)
Talk about being confused? Day 12 of Effexor 37.5 XR mg..primarily given to me for menopause and all the SE from this change of my life thrusted on me due to a hysterectomy!So, yesterday I learn my cholesterol is high and now I need to go on Lipitor 10 mg! So my dr says effexor is good for migraines which I have..yet lipitor can give you mingranes.He told me effexor will help my HOT flashes..effexor and lipitor both are known to give you HOT flushes..He told me effexor will not effect my sex drive..I now say.."what sex drive???"
Constipation from effexor..diarrhea from lipitor??? Lack of sleep from effexor..dizziness and weakness from lipitor..
I think I need an antidepressant just to take the effexor.I don't expect a miracle..Though it would
be NICE!!!! Howevever, all the confusion combined with my mental staus is to say the least very unnerving at this time. Although, I may seem to sound negetive..I really am going to give it a try. I see my dr. in a month. Hopefully, by then I wouldn't be walking backwards.
Thank you,Helaine
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 6, 2003, at 9:34:20
In reply to Short term memory loss??, posted by Helaine on August 5, 2003, at 20:45:20
I'm not sure if the short term memory problem goes away. I don't worry about it, but maybe only because I've forgotten that I've forgotten anything. Try keeping a small notepad to scripple important things down and most of us need a little black book of phone numbers & names anyways.
I know that when my heart races, I make it worse by having a panic attack because I'm afraid I'm going to have a panic attack. Self-fulfilling prophecy <~ forgot how to spell that! haha. I count backwards from 100 to distract myself and calm down.Good luck!
KDi in Texas> Day 15 on 37.5 mg of effexor XR. I seem to feel like I am in a fog some of the time. But, what really concerns me is I seem to forget such obvious things for a few minutes. Like, peoples names that I have known for many years..phone numbers,simple words ect..it does come back to me after less then 3 min (but it frightens me and it feels like an eternity. My son told me where is was going and that scared me the most because I forget where he said he would be. But, as I said it came back in just a few minutes.At times I also feel anxious and the hot flashes makes me more anxious because my heart starts to race. Is this commom(especially the memory loss)? I am hoping the SE are going to pass!! I would appreciate any one that may have had experience with this or may know someone that has ...please let me know .
> Thank you,
> Helaine
Posted by theo on August 6, 2003, at 9:42:50
In reply to Re: Short term memory loss?? » Helaine, posted by KimberlyDi on August 6, 2003, at 9:34:20
I'm off Effexor XR now for a few days and already have found my speaking and word retrieval problems diminished. My drive to get things done and go see people is back, not to mention my desire and drive to have sex, YES!! I've tried almost every SSRI on the market and although it works for some people, on an overall scale I think the drug should be off the market. This word retrieval-short term memory problem is a pretty serious side effect and now that I can look back I think it's a dangerous SSRI.
Posted by Helaine on August 6, 2003, at 11:22:50
In reply to Re: Short term memory loss??, posted by theo on August 6, 2003, at 9:42:50
Thank you for your reply KDi in Texas and Theo:
I'm so confused now I can just about cry even more then the worse day of my depression. I always prided myself on my good memory. Bills always on time..appointments kept(well you get the idea) But now I forget the simplest and some of the most obvious things. It really scares me!!! I was hoping that maybe this SE would diminish as soon as my body adjusted to the 37.5 MG now my 16th day! Is that a possibilty??
Also, the dr said this medication will have no affect on my sex drive..Now i have to say SEX DRIVE???(whats that)
I see my dr in a few weeks..I think I'm going to tell him I seemed happier when I was just depressed. Hey maybe that's the secret ingredient as far as this pill goes. Making me feel worse makes me realize I was never as bad as I thought ( I guess)
I was primarily put on effexor xr 37.5 because I had a hysterctomy and am going through menopause and all the nasty stuff menopause comes with..depression, HOT Flashes, just feeling plain old BLAH!!!
I don't know if I should throw in the towel and stop taking it (talking to my dr of course 1st) or give it more time.
I think at this point I need an antidepressant just to take my antidepressant!
Thank you,
Helaine
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2003, at 12:26:49
In reply to Re: effexor xr for chronic pain (esp. zinya) » bori, posted by zinya on August 5, 2003, at 17:52:28
> I'm not the expert for giving directions on how to navigate around here :)) but i'll give it a try
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by kgv on August 9, 2003, at 12:56:16
In reply to Re: effexor xr for chronic pain (esp. zinya), posted by bori on August 5, 2003, at 15:18:31
> Zinya,
>
> I would love to read your post but I have had troubles navigating this website. How do I do it. Also, how can you search for recent threads rather than ones from last year? I am on day 4 of effexor xr and the nausea and dizziness are gone and it is just the headaches, head compression and jaw ache, along with almost numbness above my lip. The MD said to increase weekly but I am thinking that maybe I should do it every 2 weeks to give my body a better chance to adjust. Have you noticed any changes yet with the pelvic pain? Do you know about the yahoo group for vulvodynia? There is a link from Dr. Howard Glazer's website. It's helpful. Anyhow, I am interested to hear about all of your experience!
>
> Borihi! i am taking 37.5 mg of effexor xr for fibromyalgia. my chronic pain has been reduced greatly and i sleep so well! i finally have energy and am in a much better mood. fibromyalgia causes depression and that has lifted too. my relationships with my family and boyfriend are better and i feel much less anxious and cranky. i experienced some side effects for the first 2 weeks, mostly some nausea, insomnia for about 3 nights and a general feeling of fogginess. it's been almost 2 months now and the side effects are nearly gone. i noticed that taking the pills around the same time each night helps me avoid side effects. the only thing i'm concerned about right now is that i sometimes have some sexual side effects. my desire isn't high and at times my orgasms are weak. they used to be intense and easily reached. i find myself thinking it about it a lot during sex, because i'm worried that i won't have a good orgasm. could i be psyching myself out of having one? overall, i am happy with effexor xr because i can sleep well and my chronic pain and fatigue are almost non-existent which puts me in a much better and more social mood. anyone else have results similar to mine? good luck..i hope it helps you too!
Posted by zinya on August 9, 2003, at 13:30:25
In reply to Thank you for your replies about short term memory, posted by Helaine on August 6, 2003, at 11:22:50
Helaine,
I'm VERY concerned for you. When you first wrote, i was frankly a bit stunned that an md. was giving Effexor for menopause since my most chronic side effect (I'm now at 150 mg, having edged up twice as slowly as most people, starting in the end of May and only got up to 150 2 weeks ago) is inordinately sweating and clammy skin and body heat that does feel like flashes. I know that doctors are now so concerned about estrogen (although i do think estraderm patches are a safer way to go and without uterus concerns not needing to take progesterone) but there's nothing like estrogen to deal with menopause itself.
Is your doctor a specialist, and, if so, in what?
I didn't write to you at first because i didn't think i had any relevant input to offer and didn't want to alarm you with my initial instinctive reaction of surprise. Also, if there's one thing i've learned here it's that this med affects EVERY single one of us diffferently ... and we each have very different reactions as we increase dosage as well - some find their side effects go away, some find they get worse, etc. One person becomes sleepy, the next one insomniac; one gains weight, the next loses weight, etc etc... So what do i know?? Maybe your md. knew something I didn't...
But as you describe your symptoms after 2 weeks on Effexor, I begin to think you perhaps should try to see if you can see your md. sooner than waiting a month? Or depending on his/her specialty, maybe even consulting a second physician? I still find it odd that Effexor would be an appropriate menopause response, but there was one other person i recall who mentioned being given it for the same reason a few weeks back. You might try a search feature here for 'menopause' to find others' stories that would possibly shed light for you (although, again, EVERY individual has a unique response to these a-d drugs it seems).
Oh, btw, I would HIGHLY recommend to you a book I've mentioned previously here by a woman gynecologist, Christiane Northrup, who specializes in alternate and holistic views of dealing with menopause and all manner of woman's issues. I think she has a specific menopause book out as well, but the book of hers which i have (and find to be like a bible for understanding hormonal functions and ways of treating) is "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom".
Wishing you the best of luck, Helaine!
zinya
Posted by bsho on August 10, 2003, at 2:09:44
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by darkstar on March 9, 2001, at 2:14:39
I have been taking 150 mg. Effexor for about 4 months now. It got rid of my depression, and caused constipation, tiredness at night, and odd sexual side effects (although my libido is just fine). I forgot to take it for 2 days and found myself to be dizzy. Now I found this board and am worried about further side effects from it, especially upon withdrawal. Before Effexor, I once tried Prozac for 3 days, and I was extremely happy and giggly for no reason.
Posted by Helaine on August 10, 2003, at 12:29:29
In reply to Re: Effexor for menopause » Helaine, posted by zinya on August 9, 2003, at 13:30:25
Dear Zinya:
Thank you very much for your relpy. I appreciate it very much! I think I do see a very SLIGHT improvement from the effexor such as ( better moods and more pep)However, the hot flashes seem the same and maybe even a little worse. My md put me on this medication not only for the hot flashes but all the unpleasant SE brought on by menopause too. To continue or not "that is the question" I found an article on the web about effexor and Hot flashes if anyone is interested (http://www.breastcancer.org/research_menopause_030002.html)
My worse SE from the effexor are my short term memory losses. It scares me so much. I draw blanks for just a few minutes but while they occur they seem like an eternity. My libido has dropped to just about zero. But, is that the medication doing that or the menopause?? I just don't know. Plus, as if that's not enough confusion I was just diagnosed with high cholesterol and was put on lipitor. Can you guess the most common side effect of lipitor? HOT FLASHES!!!!!!!!!!!!! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Do you know if I choice to stop taking the effexor after 3 and 1/2 week at 37.5 mg will I go through any kind of withdrawels???
Thank you,
Helaine
Posted by zinya on August 10, 2003, at 12:50:01
In reply to Re: Effexor for menopause, posted by Helaine on August 10, 2003, at 12:29:29
hi again Helaine,
It seems the main problem you are facing is that there are NO easy answers for menopause these days. We used to think we had an "easy answer" and now realize that was a primrose path...
I do think you'd find some serious practical help from the Northrup book.
As for going off Effexor, YES, everything I read here tells me you should DEFINITELY ease off, even at only 37.5 mg. Either open the capsules and divvy up the granules to cut the amount to half for a few days or even a week and then even cut to a third or a quarter of the amount. Another alternative is to take the full 37.5 but go to every other day and then every third day etc. And stay several days in either case at each new reduction level, even a week. Effexor withdrawal seems to be its biggest problem (apparently due to short half-life, something i think i read someone say it shares in common with Paxil but not with Prozac).
In any event do NOT think that 37.5 is so small you can go off cold turkey. Easing off the slower the better will spare you risking some really awful reactions some have reported here.
good luck, whatever you decide!
zinya
Posted by dandelion on August 11, 2003, at 14:31:03
In reply to Re: how to navigate around here » zinya, posted by Dr. Bob on August 7, 2003, at 12:26:49
Hi....i'm just curious if anyone else has experienced a plateau while on Effexor XR. I've been taking it since December or so, and have been taking a maintenance dose of 225 mg for about 3 months now. i was doing pretty well; though occasionally i had moody days, compared to feeling dead and numb, it was an improvement. However, over the past few weeks, i've suddenly noticed a change. I've been terribly angry...having outbursts and snapping at everyone, crying for no reason. Is it possibe that the med has just stopped working? that I've leveled out and am back to where i started? i made an appointment with my psy. to see. I'd rather not get it increased anymore. anyone experience something similar? thanks :)
Posted by tmgirl on August 11, 2003, at 20:08:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » darkstar, posted by bsho on August 10, 2003, at 2:09:44
I went off effexor xr about 3 weeks ago....the withdrawll was more that I could bear, I went cold turkey and I was only on effexor for about a month, I can Imangine how horrible the side effects if I had been on it longer than that. Anyhow, my point is.... The first week off effexor it was like I had tha flu....it was horrible....after the first week passed I began to slowly feel better. The next week I fely like I had been hit by a truck but began to start to feel like my old self....yes better but still with the depression. Anyway this past week has been sooooo much better up untill last night, I was laying in bed and and all of a sudden I had one of those eletric shocks in my head, I had never had one of those before and it scared me so bad I thought for a moment that I was dying. Also the past two nights I have had unthinkable nightmares. I never had them before eaither. Anyway, my question is why after two weeks of now feeling great health wise would I be having these withdrawl side effects? This does not make any since to me. After two weeks of being off effexor....my doctor put me on something else to go with the effexor to help me sleep at night it is also a anti depression pill combined. I did not tell the dr that I took my self off the effexor. I figured that since it is a anti depression pill also that I would just take that. Anyway, if any of you have any thoughts on this or experience with the head shocks, please please share with me. I am so scared of having another one that I am almost considering going back on effexor. I really dont want to because of the horrible time I had at getting off after just one month of taking it but I have to do something....besides that I cant hardly stand my hubby now....I used to feel so much love and hope for our future. I dont want to feel numb and void though like I did on effexor though.....please help!
Posted by Helaine on August 11, 2003, at 21:03:12
In reply to Withdrawl from HELL, posted by tmgirl on August 11, 2003, at 20:08:10
Today I made the decission to go off effexor xr 37.5 mg after almost 1 month. My SE were worse then my original problem. I, too am concerned with the withdrawels but I plan to not go cold turkey. A pill every other day in hopes to make the withdrawles less. I guess all of our bodies are different thus we all have different reactions.
Anyway, I found this on the web about withdrawels that sounded a little bit like yours. Hope it's helpful!
(from the web)
Effexor Story - VERY INFORMATIVE!
By Heather
when did this nightmare begin? Autumn 2000. After a traumatic event in my life, I found myself booked in at Crescent Clinic, and been treated by a Psychiatrist - Doctor 1. After a brief session, he decided that I needed to be put onto 225mg of Effexor a day. He decided this, without really hearing my life story, my passions in life, my disappointments, and my major traumas. He also felt it was ok to give me this medication without telling me the serious side effects this legal drug has to offer. After a few weeks of unbearable nausea, confusion, anxiety, agitation and numbness in my face, I contacted Doctor 1, who then suggested that the dose was to high ad I should cut down to 150mg a day. After a few days I was able to live in the world again and feel my face - wonderful. Life continued but there were some really odd things going on in my body. Before I went onto this drug, I was one of those really lucky people who could eat what I like and never gained weight. I am 5’8” and my weight would always fluctuate between 48 and 53kg. I also never really had a major issue with food I would eat normal meals, but never crave food. Now my weight had increased itself to 58Kg, and I felt I could just not get enough food. I would wake up in the middle of the night with hunger pains, and have to raid the fridge. I had become obsessed with food, Effexor had created this permanently ravenous state of being. Even after consuming a very large mans size portion of food I would still be starving. Then there was the recurring short-term memory loss. From a person who was known to have a memory of an elephant, to remember the most minute details about events, numbers and dates, I had now developed a memory span of a goldfish. I could have a conversation with someone one minute or read a column in a magazine and the next minute have no idea what I had said or read - complete blank! I would find my self-staring into space wondering where or who I am. The other problem I experienced was the fact that I was always on the same constant level of emotion, I was never happy or sad. I could be told or see something really sad, and no where in my body would I feel the slightest amount of compassion - I was emotionally switched off. The reverse is also true, something really wonderful could happen and once again I would feel nothing - “hello is there anyone home, is the light switched on in there?” I felt this was a definite problem, coming from the person I have always been, one who does get really happy about the good things, or really sad and empathetic about the sad situations in life. In fact I thought if I was going to become emotionally dead then why bother breathing anyway. Sexual dysfunction, now here is an interesting side effect from Effexor. I had to look up what the word libido was in the dictionary, but alas by the time I had found L in the dictionary I had forgotten what I was looking for...and trust me this is where my sexual appetite began and ended on this drug. It is now October 2001, I weigh 65kg, my family and friends cannot recognize me, my clothes have started packing themselves up and marching straight out of the house, in fear I would actually try and put my thigh or arm into them. My goldfish memory has not become a winner at work, my lack of sexual urge, has no longer become entertaining to prospective partners, and my complete emotionally dulled mind has become a nightmare to myself. Ok I am going off this stuff - I have had enough! I read the pamphlet to the drug - no major issues on going off this stuff it appears. I quote “Patients who have received Effexor for 6 weeks or more should have their dose tapered gradually over a 1-week period” There is also no details given about actually having any such thing as withdrawal symptoms. In fact the package insert goes as far as to say”....clinical trials did not reveal any tendency for a withdrawal syndrome...” Cool that doesn’t sound too bad - what is one week. I decided that since I have been on other antidepressants and have never had a problem coming off of them, I think I will actually just stop taking the pills all together. Oh my gosh - what is this! When did I die and go to hell? I am on Day 3 of taking my last pill, and have found myself in the midst of extremely debilitating withdrawal symptoms. Physically I am dizzy, have blurred vision, brain zaps, electrical shocks in all parts of my body, extremely tired, nauseous, gastro, and night sweats. Emotionally I fluctuate between feeling either angry, violent or just so upset I cry all the time. I decide I must see a doctor about this on Day 4. After a very unenlightening discussion with Doctor 2, who firsts asks me whether I feel I should be going off this drug she then continues that she has not ever had experience with anyone going off of it, and really has no advice to give me. She does manage to wish me luck. Day 5. After waking up from a very disturbed sleep I realize with dismay I am still alive, the withdrawal symptoms are still very much alive and partying a storm in my body. I decide to phone Crescent Clinic -after all they deal with drug rehabilitation. I speak to a nurse who also asks me whether I feel I should be going off this drug - I tell her yes. She then says she does not know what to suggest as she does not have any experience in this area, maybe a should contact a psychiatrist. I decided that to contact another drug pusher would not be the solution, and phone Tara. Ok is this dejevu, have I become delusional, as the conversation is exactly the same. I do learn though that illegal drug abusers usually take about 7 days to withdraw from a drug. I saunter back to bed. The days have now become extremely hazy. Luckily I have a supply of sleeping pills, which I keep taking to knock myself out and pretend that I have died and gone somewhere pain free, not this living hell on Earth. Day 10 arrives, and hey I am beginning to feel ok. The nausea has gone, I can stand, the dizziness has disappeared, and I think the symptoms have left. I am over the moon. One month later. I have started to lose weight, but hang on what is this? I wake up one day to find my body covered in this hideous rash. It is burning and stinging and I am very emotionally upset. I see Doctor 3, who asks no questions just gives me, a cortisone injection. The rash disappears in a few hours I am feeling ok. A week later the hives are back. I go to Doctor 4 who is on call. Still no questions are asked, no answers are given to me and I am given another cortisone injection, and the rash disappears in a few hours. Next week, we are on the same procedure - Doctor 5 on call asks a few questions but also decided cortisone is the best. Great now after 3 cortisone injections in one month, I am so bloated I look like the Oros Man. If I thought I had a weight problem before, well this overblown monster in the mirror I have to face is unbearable. Yes the next week I get the rash - I refuse to have another fat injection and decide to try a homeopath instead. I am given little white pills, told to bath with chamomile and lavender drops. After 2 weeks the rash has become very minimal and bearable. During my rash episode a had also developed incredible lower stomach pains. My first point of call was the gynecologist - Doctor 6. After doing the usual pap smears, sonar, etc, he found nothing wrong and decided to do a laparoscopy. After this interesting procedure everything was found to be healthy, but I was left with 2 scars, and aching stomach muscles. I must say though it was a wonderful feeling during the anesthetic and the day after to have no stomach pains - perhaps I should consider taking anesthetic on a daily basis. Ok a month later, I have not been able to have a normal day. The stomach pains are so bad, I can’t go out at night, I cant go out during the day, I am still suffering the cortisone side effects, and the only people I feel comfortable amongst would be the Michelin or Oros man. I have become increasingly agitated, depressed, I cry uncontrollably, and oddly enough for a placid person I have tended towards becoming violent. Suicide thoughts are on my mind completely. I would love to cut my stomach out with a spoon! I phone Doctor 7 the gastroenterologist who books me into hospital for my severe stomach pains. He runs a few blood tests - everything appears to be normal, does a sonar - normal, and then decides to do a gastroscopy and colonoscopy. Great news everything is completely normal and healthy! He then proceeds to tell me that he feels everything is all in my mind, and calls in one of those drug pushers (psychiatrist) Doctor 8. After a futile discussion with Doctor 8, I decide I cant live in such pain; maybe all these medical practitioners are right after all and this must really be all in my head. I am back on Effexor. Within a month, my rashes gave completely gone and my stomach pains to. Ok yes this must have been all in my head. It is strange though that it was never in my head before I had begun my Effexor journey into the unknown. I decide one day to do a search of Effexor on the Internet. What’s this - loads of sites dedicated to the subject Flexor and associated withdrawal symptoms! My eyes grow wider as I read the countless accounts given by victims, who suffered the same debilitating effects I went through, the same lack of information from both their medical practitioners and from the information provided by the manufacturer of the drug Wyeth. Then I get a chill down my spine - countless people describe the horrendous rashes and abdominal pains they had on withdrawal of the drug! Now I am angry, I am very angry - this was not all in my mind - these pains were real, and a serious consequence from this evil drug. I have been put back on the drug, due to the misinformation of doctors 3 through to 8! I have suffered months of pain due to their apathy and the lack of information provided by the manufacturer of Effexor - Wyeth in their insert pamphlet. Even more interesting was my fellow sufferers entries concerning, the emotional state they suffered after discontinuance of this drug. Most also reported feeling very angry, violent and suicidal. Sadly there had been some entries from relatives or friends noting that the sufferer had committed suicide during withdrawal from Effexor. I now realized why I was so incredibly depressed, angry and at times violent towards myself. But this makes complete sense. If an “e” user or any other illegal substance user comes down after going on their high, they get extremely depressed. These illegal drugs work on the same chemicals in your brain, as the antidepressants - serotonin and dopamine. It makes complete sense that after my brain had been fed these chemicals for so long, it would not know how to naturally function again, and yes spiral into a downward nightmare. I feel that it is ironic that there is so much public information on the side effects of illegal drugs, so many support groups for illegal drug abusers, so may clinics for these abusers where they can be treated with empathy in safety - but none for the Abused legal drug users. This information has been locked way in a shrine of secrecy, doctors have not been bothered to update themselves on the lethal effects of these drugs, drug rehab clinics have not been informed on how to deal with these patients -are we destined to suffer this nightmare in silence, a world of non communication! Then comes the next interesting fact, with continued use of the drug, patients are increasingly at risk of developing a potentially lethal toxic condition known as “Serotonin Syndrome”. It is characterized by changes in mental status, agitation, tremor and shivering. Effexor has also been documented to cause cardiovascular problems in some susceptible people after long-term use. Although Effexor initially increases concentration and energy, patients have reported long-term effects of impaired memory, impaired concentration and mental disability. I get alarmed over these facts and decide to contact the Psychiatrist Doctor 8. This was 5 months ago, and I still am waiting a response. Once again I have gained more weight, and have decided that the serious side effects do not outweigh the benefits of staying on this drug only due to addiction at this stage. I am going off this drug once more, this time with the information at hand, I am doing it incredibly slowly. After many counts of unsuccessful withdrawal trials discussed on web boards, it seemed that the best way to wean myself off this drug is over a very long period. Withdrawal onset is rapid, only after missing one day’s dosage do you experience them, so doctors had found the only drug able to help with these effect was the drug Ondansetron, which is the drug used to treat chemotherapy patients for their side effects. I went to Doctor 9 to discuss my withdrawal programme. Once again he could not shed much light on the subject so I enlightened him on what prescription I needed. I handed the prescription to the pharmacist who then informed me that 2 weeks supply of Ondansetron would cost R2 000! What - is this stuff made from platinum or gold? I opted for a 1 weeks supply. I start on my slow tapering off period - this is certainly not the “Patients who have received Effexor for 6 weeks or more should have their dose tapered gradually over a 1-week period” as quoted by the manufacturer. I try out my gold plated Ondansetron for my first daily withdrawal - yes I do not have the electric shocks, dizziness, confusion as before, but I still could not turn my head without inducing a paralyzing nausea. During my enlightening web search I come across a petition from individuals who have been on Effexor to Wyeth to let them know they serous side effects of the drug and the fact that thousands of patients in the US and worldwide are unable to discontinue Effexor or even reduce dosage due to the rapid onset of severe withdrawal-like symptoms. I decide to contact the manufacturer Wyeth. After been unable to successfully get hold of the doctor or pharmacist there, I insist on speaking to the MD of the company. I ask her to please read the petition found at www.petitiononline.com/effexor/ and to supply me with her comments. She agrees to this and tells me she will get the pharmacist and doctor to contact me the next day. She did say that patients have been able to wean themselves off the drug after 6 months!! What? Day 2 on contact with Wyeth. I speak to the pharmacist, who informs me that she would have to get their associates in America to answer my concerns. The doctor on call contacts me to basically inform me that she could not answer my questions directly to me, but would talk to my GP who could then pass on the information to me. In terms of commenting on the web site, I was told that she was not at liberty to comment on this. The MD has not provided any feedback either. I find this broken telephone way of communication extremely frustrating. To not get to angry about this, I try and see things in the lighter side of life and realize with intense humour how strange it is that in the year 2002, the medical profession still insists on conducting business in the traditional ways, which were developed in the dark ages. Day3 on contact with Wyeth. I receive an email from the company pharmacist, telling me that the information would be passed on to my doctor, and she sends me the package insert? Ok hello I receive one of these in every box I buy. Anyway I decide to do a bit more research on the web, turns out that the comments on discontinuance of this drug in the package insert, do not comply with the one that was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration in March 2000 - at least in the US it has been acknowledged that there is the existence of Venlafaxine (Flexor) withdrawal syndrome. I find it incredibly disturbing that this has not been implemented in South Africa. I ask the pharmacist if she could please explain why this is the case. I await her response. I still await any response from the company on their comments on the website. This issue is no longer a personal journey for me it has now become a public responsibility. I feel that all my pain and suffering I have been through and the pain which still awaits for the next 6 months will be all worth it, if I can reach just a few individuals who have been on the is drug, and wondering if the pains they feel are real or not, as well as all prospective patients who will be prescribed this drug. I know that if I had been given this information to make an informed choice in 2000, I would definitely have chosen not to go on it. I hope that these words have given future consumers the ability to make an informed choice. So what have I learnt? Yes Psychiatrists did go to medical school, they do have a medical background, but have they walked a mile in your shoes? Have they lived a day an hour or a minute in your body? The only person who has is you, and they cannot know your state of mind or your body better than you do. Ethically doctors should be keeping up to date with the latest medical research - realistically I have not found this to be the case. With all the information available to us as patients on the Internet and in books, we now have the responsibility to ourselves to educate ourselves. Luckily we are no longer living in medieval times, were we would be at the mercy of our doctors. Anti depressants are supposed to be used as a basis for trying to fix a chemical imbalance in your body. If you have just gone through a traumatic event in your life, or feeling depressed due to circumstances - there is no reason you should be going onto these potentially harmful drug. There are many alternative therapies available. Taking them would be like taking morphine for pain, it cures the pain not the problem. Taking these drugs could prove to turn out to be a very expensive life long journey. Educate your doctor, so that the next time a patient walks in with a similar problem to yours, they would be able to get an educated, up to date answer. Tegan South Africa
Helaine
Posted by EmmaL on August 12, 2003, at 3:12:28
In reply to Withdrawl from HELL, posted by tmgirl on August 11, 2003, at 20:08:10
Has anyone experienced weight gain on Effexor XR?? Two different doctors have seem very puzzled about my weight gain, probably 25 lbs, after 2 years and 3 months. They suspect that I should have been losing weight. I usually do not snack, as a rule, which my primary doctor is convinced I am, as well as not being on a schedule. Well, hey, I am exhausted all of the time. I think that I am on a regular schedule, since I work! And I really do hate the sweating!!! I continue to eat lots of vegetables,(my fav), always have, as well as some fruit, along with mainly chicken breasts, some meat, and a bit of rice, whole-wheat bread, and pasta. Please reply if you can relate to my symptoms and give any advice. I am presently searching for a new physician. I am still holding on to my primary doctor as I am uncertain that I will be able to procure a new one.
Posted by jmyers on August 12, 2003, at 4:19:07
In reply to Withdrawl from HELL, posted by tmgirl on August 11, 2003, at 20:08:10
> I went off effexor xr about 3 weeks ago....the withdrawll was more that I could bear, I went cold turkey and I was only on effexor for about a month, I can Imangine how horrible the side effects if I had been on it longer than that. Anyhow, my point is.... The first week off effexor it was like I had tha flu....it was horrible....after the first week passed I began to slowly feel better. The next week I fely like I had been hit by a truck but began to start to feel like my old self....yes better but still with the depression. Anyway this past week has been sooooo much better up untill last night, I was laying in bed and and all of a sudden I had one of those eletric shocks in my head, I had never had one of those before and it scared me so bad I thought for a moment that I was dying. Also the past two nights I have had unthinkable nightmares. I never had them before eaither. Anyway, my question is why after two weeks of now feeling great health wise would I be having these withdrawl side effects? This does not make any since to me. After two weeks of being off effexor....my doctor put me on something else to go with the effexor to help me sleep at night it is also a anti depression pill combined. I did not tell the dr that I took my self off the effexor. I figured that since it is a anti depression pill also that I would just take that. Anyway, if any of you have any thoughts on this or experience with the head shocks, please please share with me. I am so scared of having another one that I am almost considering going back on effexor. I really dont want to because of the horrible time I had at getting off after just one month of taking it but I have to do something....besides that I cant hardly stand my hubby now....I used to feel so much love and hope for our future. I dont want to feel numb and void though like I did on effexor though.....please help!
Well what do you expect? You should never stop any drug cold turkey, it throws your whole body out of whack. I'm not bitching at you, but your doctor knows this, and would tell you. Effexor is a strong drug, and by their literature should be tapered by 75 mg/week.
I know because I did the same thing with Effexor, and it sucked.
Since you have gone cold turkey (and you are risking seizures by doing so), let me give you some advice:
1) Drink lots of water.
2) Avoid caffeine or any other stimulant.
3) Drink cranberry juice (to flush out metabolites).
4) Stay in bed until you feel you can face things. [This may be hard...I don't know your schedule or work requirements.]
5) Set a super-regular sleep schedule, even if you can't sleep...lay down.
6) You also have the option of taking Effexor with Wellbutrin, which tends to get rid of the sexual side effects in women...did you know that?I'm not a doctor. I just have been through similar crap. You can email me at jon.myers@rcn.com and we can exchange numbers and talk. I am worried about you, but I know what you are going through right now, and I would have given anything for that if I knew (when I was kicking Effexor) that somebody understood.
Please email me.
Jon
Posted by BSHO on August 12, 2003, at 13:38:55
In reply to Withdrawl from HELL, posted by tmgirl on August 11, 2003, at 20:08:10
What are the electric shocks like that I keep hearing about? I have had dizziness and muscle aches upon withdrawal, but the shock thing scares me.
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