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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1726 to 1750 of 8406. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 1:52:21
In reply to Here! Here!! » ayuda, posted by EGR on January 10, 2003, at 22:35:46
My husband has been suicidal. I'm taking Lexapro and now Wellbutrin and Periactin (for anxiety) as a stand against the "Secondary Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome". He is on FIVE meds - Wellbutrin, Paxil, Periactin (For Disassociative Episodes - i.e. stress causes him to disconnect from reality)(He was a Vietname Vet - so this is akin to what happened when he used to have flashbacks - seems the brain disconnect under trauma simply transferred to his regular life in non war time) - as well as Xanax PRN and Trazadone for sleep which he hardly uses.
My point? I've nver been suicidal. I mean I've wanted to give up - opt out - etc. But have never acted on this urge - so I'm not sure I undrstand what he feels.
Is there anyone that can post and I can share this with him? He won't post to PSycho-Babble. It's as if he's still in denial about it all and yet running as hard and as fast as he can to health and healing through the meds and counseling - he literally looks scared when I asked him to post here that he might be able to get some support - or conversely - help someone by what he's been through and found help for.
So - someone say something to me here?
Thanks -
Kairos
> When I tell people I'm on meds and they make a comment I say "Is that bad? I didn't choose to be suicidal." That kind of works! I could never let go of anger or blow off people's criticisms, no matter how minor. It sure is nice to be able to do that. How in the world do these drugs really work?
Posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 2:51:32
In reply to Re: Lexapro worked but still sad sometimes, posted by Cynthia on January 10, 2003, at 12:44:45
Hear Hear - This professional just heard that - and frankly I'm a minority and agree with you - the saddest and most tragic part is that so-called professionals who cannot understand this really need to go back to the learning board - or - if they have a power / ego issue get out of the field altogether.
Kairos
> Ayuda just said two things that especially resonated with me: "We are the sane ones." and "It's a physical illness." These would make great tag lines. I wish the professionals who promote mental health awareness would incorporate this type of thinking into their communications materials in a big way. These two statements are very provocative, and would be very effective in helping to lessen the stigma we all feel. It really is true that this is a physical illness -- with mental repercussions. If more people understood this, they would be more inclined to seek help, and we, the "sane ones" would be more inclined to talk about our problems, which would go a long way to making treatment more acceptable.
Posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 3:19:44
In reply to Re: New to Lexapro, posted by Romulus on January 10, 2003, at 11:17:34
Romulus -
gasp - is this really true? (Rhetorical I know - but that was my instant response!) You've just totally nailed ME! What in God's name is used to treat for this???
Kairos> > PMS is not a mild case of the blues. It's a serious problem and it makes a woman suffer as much as anything. If you are a woman who has an anxiety disorder or depression, 2 weeks before your period your symptoms become about 10 times worse than normal. So imagine your own depression being intensified 10-fold 2 weeks out of every month. That's how serious it is and that's why some people find relief with SSRIs.
>
>
> I'm afraid you misunderstand my post. When I said 'mild case of the blues' I was referring to pdocs often being unqualified to prescribe SSRIs, even to the point of prescribing them for that purpose--wasn't referring to PMS. Wanted to make sure the original poster was getting a truly professional opinion.
Posted by ayuda on January 11, 2003, at 8:52:46
In reply to Lexapro , posted by Jennings on January 10, 2003, at 19:11:49
I think that the standard for those sensations going away is 2 weeks minimum. When I first started Lexapro, I had a lot of mental confusion. Also, the dry mouth and metallic taste should abate (until you increase your dosage, from my experience). Hang in there -- your world will right itself again. EGR has no problems sleeping, but I still have a lot of problems with insomnia, and it's been a mixed bag with that from what I've seen on this discussion group. So it may or may not go away.
> After five days of this medication I notice no decreasing in the sensations. The sensations include a very funny taste in my mouth, at times my balance is effected (although not to any dangerous levels). For the first three days I suffered from chronic insomnia, I then began medication for that. The building I work in is an aircraft painting facility with a semi loud ventilation system, the constant sound(s) that used to be unnoticed now often trick me into thinking that I’m hearing music – guitars, rock music! I take my medication at the same time every day (the minute I wake up) which is 4:20 A.M., the result is that I can anticipate the new day’s “rush” (everyday) at almost the exact same time 9:45/10:00 A.M. The “rush” as I put it, involves the notice of some very slight equilibrium challenges, “the taste” lands itself against my teeth and stays there for the rest of the day. I begin to search for water fountains, not because I’m thirsty but well, my mouth is very dry, for a long time (hours). I find myself avoiding conversation with my colleagues out of a fear of myself not trusting my own reactions (although I don’t have any regrettable experiences), I just don’t feel comfortable! My ability to perform my job does not yet appear to be compromised (although a little slowed perhaps). I must have something to do at all times or I will manufacture something to do!!! Even as I am “doing” (occupying myself) I am concerned about my level of concentration, my ability to focus! My ability to write is EXTREMELY compromised do to the unsteadiness of my central nervous system (until later in the day when I finally solicit the assistance of alcohol). At certain times I have also experienced TEMPORARY sexual inabilities. All this may sound despairing, however the alternative is depression, and there’s NOTHING worse than depression. I will not discontinue taking this medication!!!
Posted by ayuda on January 11, 2003, at 9:02:45
In reply to Re: Been on Lexapro for approx 4 months, posted by bozeman on January 10, 2003, at 20:46:05
I went from Effexor XR to Lexapro, mostly because of the nausea and the weight gain -- I could not handle it after 6 months. My doctor had me up to 225 mg because I could not feel any affects from it at any lower dosage. I am now on 20mg Lexapro, and feeling A LOT better.
I wish I could show these posts to my doctors about the weight gain -- they talk to me like I have an eating disorder, or I am lazy -- which I am NOT and never was -- and that it's my fault I've gained weight. They just don't understand how these meds mess with our metabolisms.
> I don't know if there is any way to tell how a particular drug will affect your headaches . . . I have had migraines for years, usually two or three bad ones per month, except for that time I (stupidly) let a specialist put me on a drug I knew made them worse, had two or three a week for several months (living hell), and since starting Lexapro several months ago have not had one migraine. None. Yet others have had the opposite experience, Lexapro makes theirs worse. I kept Imitrex with me at all times before, and now wonder if I'll end up throwing the rest out.
>
> I guess if you're unhappy with the Effexor and your doc is wanting you to try something else, why not try it? Like you, I read the "maybe, we're not sure, probably not, but we think there may be" a negative interaction between Lexapro and Imitrex -- but if you really study it, the notation is anecdotal and they were not at all convinced there was a connection.
>
> If you have another (backup) drug you could take (like Zomig) for migraines, you could try the Lexapro, if you get migraines on it, try your Imitrex -- if it makes you feel just too weird (the maybe-kinda-sorta drug interaction) use the Zomig or whatever to combat your migraines until you can switch off the Lexapro again. You may not even need the Imitrex (I no longer do.) But if you do, you may not have a problem taking it. If it's a problem, you can always wean off Lexapro and back onto something else.
>
> Good luck, I understand your frustration, and went through the same thing for the week I sat looking at the Lexapro bottle every night before I actually ever took a single dose. (no, I'm not obsessive. Not me. OK, so I am. But I'm feeling much better now that I have Lexapro.)
> :-)
>
> >
> > Hi stuckinarut,
> > My psychiatrist told me at my last appointment, which was about 2 months ago that I should maybe try Lexapro. I am currently taking Effexor XR, 75 mg and have been for about 6-7 months. At one point I increased to 150 mg and then went back to 75 mg because I did not notice any improvement. I do not know what to do about the Effexor because I am gaining a lot of weight on it. But I have read some things about Lexapro that I am afraid of. You said you had terrible headaches in the beginning. Do you still have them? I am really afraid of this because I have migraines adn have to take Imitrex for those. Please advise. Thanks, jtc
> >
>
>
Posted by Dysfunk on January 11, 2003, at 13:24:28
In reply to Re: Night Sweats/Nightmares-menopause?, posted by Noa on January 4, 2003, at 13:02:14
Thanks for your comments. I am getting off this medicine. It is not working for me. As I lower my doses I am experiencing nightmares. It is a difficult medicine to tolerate. I know I will have sweats again, but at least I know it is medicine related thanks to everyone's comments.
Posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 17:35:53
In reply to Re: Here! Here!!, posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 1:52:21
Kairos, I would be happy to somehow correspond with your husband. I guess I'm just not sure what part of my story would be helpful to him. I guess I could start out by saying that in the beginning, I didn't start out wanting to kill myself, I was just miserable and would have negative thoughts. Then one day, as I was driving, a thought popped in... "I could just drive into this oncoming traffic"... and then it escalated after that... which corner would be the best in order to make it look like an accident... how I could drive off a bridge and make it look like an accident. Etc., etc. Let me know what you think would be helpful for him to read.
I really DO care...
EGR
Posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 17:46:02
In reply to Re: Lexapro , posted by salpav on January 10, 2003, at 23:16:10
> I have severe depression (bipolar disorder), non functional. Tomoorow I start lexapro. Any hope? Any advice?
Keep taking it... give it a chance to work. Take it one day at a time. Do ONE thing at a time... baby steps to the top. Make a list of what you need to do and then pick ONE. Then make a list of what you need to do in order to accomplish this task... like you need to do laundry, so one step is to sort it. When you have it sorted, pat yourself on the back.
Use naps as rewards, not excuses... i.e. "when I get the laundry done, I'll let myself take a one hour nap". etc.
I was non-functioning too. When you feel good, don't think your bad days are all over... celebrate good moments, and when you feel poorly, think of it as a bad MOMENT and not a bad day. Live in little clumps of time.
Keep me posted....
EGR
Posted by Romulus on January 11, 2003, at 19:19:20
In reply to Re: New to Lexapro » Romulus, posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 3:19:44
> Romulus -
>
> gasp - is this really true? (Rhetorical I know - but that was my instant response!) You've just totally nailed ME! What in God's name is used to treat for this???
>
Kairos -If you have a chronic feeling of depression, you may well have been diagnosed correctly. I don't mean to generalize, and may be a little biased after reading the book 'Prozac Backlash' which raised some questions in my mind.
My father has long been on AD's and is sure he has an imbalance, which prompted me to try Lexapro. I am new to ADs and am very pleased so far -- only side effects have been some difficulty sleeping and occasional jitters.
Posted by teriwynn on January 11, 2003, at 20:11:11
In reply to Lexapro , posted by Jennings on January 10, 2003, at 19:11:49
Hang in there; five days is nothing. Most SSRI's come with side effects that do lessen or go away entirely...and you're so right, even the side effects are better than depression.
Posted by teriwynn on January 11, 2003, at 20:16:31
In reply to Welcome Mikal! » mikal, posted by EGR on January 10, 2003, at 22:42:07
Thank God for drugs is right. I was so resistant in the beginning. Now I tell people I'm on them all the time. Usually people are really supportive. Nobody judges me harshly or treats me like a looney person. And I just call them my "happy pills." That puts the right slant on the conversation right from the start. What could anyone possibly have against a pill that makes you happy?
Posted by Jennings on January 11, 2003, at 20:33:01
In reply to Re: Lexapro » Jennings, posted by ayuda on January 11, 2003, at 8:52:46
Day six, and I'm having my worst A/D side effects to date!
Posted by teriwynn on January 11, 2003, at 20:33:04
In reply to Re: Lexapro » salpav, posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 17:46:02
**What excellent advice EGR. In addition to that, may I add this. Get a journal. Write down anything good that happens each day. Any small accomplishments, any positive thoughts, any acts of kindness. Then when you're feeling like you can't get anything done, like you're worthless, like you're totally non-functional, look back in your journal to remind yourself that it's not as bad as you think. Then enter something in your journal to indicate that you took the time to look in the journal rather than feel like you were totally worthless. In other words, give yourself credit for keeping the journal and for reading it. You'll be surprised how the little things add up. Your first entry can be asking for help by posting to this message board. Asking for help is a great step. Taking your meds is another. Write that down every day. Good luck.
> > I have severe depression (bipolar disorder), non functional. Tomoorow I start lexapro. Any hope? Any advice?
>
> Keep taking it... give it a chance to work. Take it one day at a time. Do ONE thing at a time... baby steps to the top. Make a list of what you need to do and then pick ONE. Then make a list of what you need to do in order to accomplish this task... like you need to do laundry, so one step is to sort it. When you have it sorted, pat yourself on the back.
>
> Use naps as rewards, not excuses... i.e. "when I get the laundry done, I'll let myself take a one hour nap". etc.
>
> I was non-functioning too. When you feel good, don't think your bad days are all over... celebrate good moments, and when you feel poorly, think of it as a bad MOMENT and not a bad day. Live in little clumps of time.
>
> Keep me posted....
>
> EGR
>
>
Posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 21:31:42
In reply to Re: Lexapro, posted by teriwynn on January 11, 2003, at 20:33:04
YES! I forgot that. One of the things is that our brains work in images... so right now, it's full of negative images. My pastor told me to get a folder for positive images and put things in there that would trigger a positive image when I could find "my happy thought"... stuff like pictures of my kids, a note where someone had told me I did a good job. Things that ordinarily seem silly to keep end up being life-lines.
> Get a journal. Write down anything good that happens each day. Any small accomplishments, any positive thoughts, any acts of kindness. Then when you're feeling like you can't get anything done, like you're worthless, like you're totally non-functional, look back in your journal to remind yourself that it's not as bad as you think.
Posted by bozeman on January 11, 2003, at 22:37:14
In reply to Re: Lexapro, posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 21:31:42
I know this will sound sappy, so if it offends anyone I AM SORRY ;-) but I keep a Thankfulness List, sometimes it's all I do when I'm too tired to journal. Recent entries:
Three good hair days in a row (that's never happened before)
Getting all three of the "boys" to the vet and back in one afternoon with no one scratched, bitten, or permanently traumatized (including me)
A roommate who is lovingly supportive when I simply *cannot* do the dishes or some other (for a normal person) simple task and doesn't hit me with a skillet when I'm in one of my negative funks
A drive home without hitting more than two red stoplights (world record, must be)
Getting back my serum allergy list and NOT finding coffee or chocolate on it :-)The point is, even on my worst days, I can find something, one thing, that went right. And it shows me how far I've come when I get a whole bunch of right ones in a day.
A new entry for the List: Finding a forum (this web site) that shows I'm not alone and having others to talk to
> YES! I forgot that. One of the things is that our brains work in images... so right now, it's full of negative images. My pastor told me to get a folder for positive images and put things in there that would trigger a positive image when I could find "my happy thought"... stuff like pictures of my kids, a note where someone had told me I did a good job. Things that ordinarily seem silly to keep end up being life-lines.
>
> > Get a journal. Write down anything good that happens each day. Any small accomplishments, any positive thoughts, any acts of kindness. Then when you're feeling like you can't get anything done, like you're worthless, like you're totally non-functional, look back in your journal to remind yourself that it's not as bad as you think.
Posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 22:37:26
In reply to Re: Here! Here!! » Kairos, posted by EGR on January 11, 2003, at 17:35:53
EGR -
Thanks - just for simply saying you care. It's been a helluva haul - for both of us.
*sigh* I'm just not sure what I'm really asking here - I mean I wll share your statement from the post and see what he says i guess - How can someone help him - I mean - perhaps to not feel alone - and whre to go from here - or just someone else that has gone thru it and now wants to live? I any case - whatever occurs to you - thanks. It means the world to me - he's my best friend - and the air I breathe.
Beyond being my mate - no individual should have to be so depressed as to take their lives by their own hand.
Kairos
> Kairos, I would be happy to somehow correspond with your husband. I guess I'm just not sure what part of my story would be helpful to him. I guess I could start out by saying that in the beginning, I didn't start out wanting to kill myself, I was just miserable and would have negative thoughts. Then one day, as I was driving, a thought popped in... "I could just drive into this oncoming traffic"... and then it escalated after that... which corner would be the best in order to make it look like an accident... how I could drive off a bridge and make it look like an accident. Etc., etc. Let me know what you think would be helpful for him to read.
>
> I really DO care...
>
> EGR
Posted by ayuda on January 11, 2003, at 23:10:54
In reply to Re: Lexapro » EGR, posted by bozeman on January 11, 2003, at 22:37:14
That's not sappy at all -- that is inspirational!
We humans DO forget to look at the little things, in general. And everyone does have small victories every day. We get so lost in our moods and in how we want things to be that we forget about life's daily triumphs.And it's a testament, perhaps, to how well the meds are working that any of us can see that it isn't SO bad.
Question, though: things like this are still making me weepy. Is that a med problem, or am I okay to be weepy when faced with these "inspirational" things? (I was going to say sappy, but that would be hypocritical!!) It's so hard to tell when you are used to weepiness being a bad sign.
> I know this will sound sappy, so if it offends anyone I AM SORRY ;-) but I keep a Thankfulness List, sometimes it's all I do when I'm too tired to journal. Recent entries:
> Three good hair days in a row (that's never happened before)
> Getting all three of the "boys" to the vet and back in one afternoon with no one scratched, bitten, or permanently traumatized (including me)
> A roommate who is lovingly supportive when I simply *cannot* do the dishes or some other (for a normal person) simple task and doesn't hit me with a skillet when I'm in one of my negative funks
> A drive home without hitting more than two red stoplights (world record, must be)
> Getting back my serum allergy list and NOT finding coffee or chocolate on it :-)
>
> The point is, even on my worst days, I can find something, one thing, that went right. And it shows me how far I've come when I get a whole bunch of right ones in a day.
>
> A new entry for the List: Finding a forum (this web site) that shows I'm not alone and having others to talk to
>
> > YES! I forgot that. One of the things is that our brains work in images... so right now, it's full of negative images. My pastor told me to get a folder for positive images and put things in there that would trigger a positive image when I could find "my happy thought"... stuff like pictures of my kids, a note where someone had told me I did a good job. Things that ordinarily seem silly to keep end up being life-lines.
> >
> > > Get a journal. Write down anything good that happens each day. Any small accomplishments, any positive thoughts, any acts of kindness. Then when you're feeling like you can't get anything done, like you're worthless, like you're totally non-functional, look back in your journal to remind yourself that it's not as bad as you think.
>
>
Posted by Jennings on January 12, 2003, at 7:42:31
In reply to Re: New to Lexapro, posted by Romulus on January 11, 2003, at 19:19:20
"Trouble sleeping ang jitters" is certainly putting it very mildly for some, I assure you!
> > Romulus -
> >
> > gasp - is this really true? (Rhetorical I know - but that was my instant response!) You've just totally nailed ME! What in God's name is used to treat for this???
> >
>
>
> Kairos -
>
> If you have a chronic feeling of depression, you may well have been diagnosed correctly. I don't mean to generalize, and may be a little biased after reading the book 'Prozac Backlash' which raised some questions in my mind.
>
> My father has long been on AD's and is sure he has an imbalance, which prompted me to try Lexapro. I am new to ADs and am very pleased so far -- only side effects have been some difficulty sleeping and occasional jitters.
Posted by chapman on January 12, 2003, at 8:19:09
In reply to Re: New to Lexapro, posted by Romulus on January 11, 2003, at 19:19:20
My 12 year old son was started on lexapro about
3 months ago, after trials of welburtin, resperdal
(whick caused uncontolable eating), and other assorted
anti-anxiety, anti-depressent meds. His diagnoises
are; dysthymia,anxiety, intermitant explosive D/O,
and borderline traits. His special ed teacher and
most those folks around him agree that there has been
a big increase in explosive behaviors for the past
three months. He was hospitalized again for a week
and in general is doing poorly. I've tried to tell
his psychiatrist that I think it's the med, but no
med changes have been made. Yes, the depression is
better, sleep is better...but mood fluctuation and
control of anger is awful. I'm not going to second
guess his doc, and continue to follow reccomendations,
but I was wondering if there is any doccumentation
that would support my theory that it's the Lexapro
that is causing havoc in our lives....again...On a positive note, I have 2 clients (i'm a day treatment
therapist) who have started on lexapro, and they
are doing great. Both have been on a combination of
lexapro with a bit of welbrutin to boost it's effects.
Posted by Geezer on January 12, 2003, at 10:03:38
In reply to Re: New to Lexapro, posted by chapman on January 12, 2003, at 8:19:09
Hi,
You might ask your son's pdoc if he has considered one of the anticonvulsant drugs-Lithium, Depakote, Trileptal (few side effects), Lamictal (slow titration good AD effect), etc. This may help cover the Bipolar possibility if that has not been considered. I am not a pdoc and certainly not qualified to make a DX.....just a thought.
Wish a rapid recovery for your son and some peace for you too.
Geezer
Posted by Geezer on January 12, 2003, at 11:25:35
In reply to Re: Here! Here!! » EGR, posted by Kairos on January 11, 2003, at 22:37:26
> EGR -
>
> Thanks - just for simply saying you care. It's been a helluva haul - for both of us.
>
> *sigh* I'm just not sure what I'm really asking here - I mean I wll share your statement from the post and see what he says i guess - How can someone help him - I mean - perhaps to not feel alone - and whre to go from here - or just someone else that has gone thru it and now wants to live? I any case - whatever occurs to you - thanks. It means the world to me - he's my best friend - and the air I breathe.
>
> Beyond being my mate - no individual should have to be so depressed as to take their lives by their own hand.
>
> Kairos
>
> > Kairos, I would be happy to somehow correspond with your husband. I guess I'm just not sure what part of my story would be helpful to him. I guess I could start out by saying that in the beginning, I didn't start out wanting to kill myself, I was just miserable and would have negative thoughts. Then one day, as I was driving, a thought popped in... "I could just drive into this oncoming traffic"... and then it escalated after that... which corner would be the best in order to make it look like an accident... how I could drive off a bridge and make it look like an accident. Etc., etc. Let me know what you think would be helpful for him to read.
> >
> > I really DO care...
> >
> > EGR
>
>Hi Kairos,
This will be my third attempt to send this post (had to delete the first two - so hard to find the right words). You are a most caring wife and the most valuable helper your husband could have. Please don't take my comments as a lecture or professional advice, I am just another person who offers an opinion.
I am probably Bipolar (the DX changes with a change in pdocs) and I am currently surviving on 600mg. Trileptal and 1mg. Klonopin, will start an AD next week. I have taken nearly all the ADs, MAOIs, SSRIs, Pstims, and Benzos over 30 years of treatment. I have been hospitalized 12 times, completed 11 ECT treatments about a month ago, and I had two "close calls" in the mid 80s.
I was called for draft physical in 1964 but deferred due to hearing defect (didn't know I had depression then, missed Viet Nam).
My father is a former POW from WW II. Shot down over occupied France, arrested by the Gestapo, spent a year "in the bag" Stalag Luft III, Germany....I grew up with his PTSD.
Close friends - James (did 2 tours in Nam 101st Airborn), Dan (Marine wounded in Nam battle of Way City), Rene (retired OSS Maj. - Army version of the CIA...part of first team "dropped" into Nam).
I have seen enough death and dying to last two life times but this came from the medical business I worked in not the horrible trama your husband suffered. Please don't try to get inside his feelings or push him to post on this board if it causes "fright". Recovery from the horrors of war take a long time (my father wouldn't talk about it for years). If someone is going to "open Pandora's Box" they had better be prepared to deal with what is inside. IMHO your husband needs the best pdoc, the best therapist, and you. This is a very good support place....let him come here when he is ready. If HE WANTS my direct e-mail address I will be glad to give it but I am no more qualified to give advice than any other non-professional.
Most important......thank your husband for his service to our country!!
Wish you both the very best,
Geezer
Posted by EGR on January 12, 2003, at 13:05:42
In reply to life's little victories » bozeman, posted by ayuda on January 11, 2003, at 23:10:54
> Question, though: things like this are still making me weepy. Is that a med problem, or am I okay to be weepy when faced with these "inspirational" things? (I was going to say sappy, but that would be hypocritical!!) It's so hard to tell when you are used to weepiness being a bad sign.I'm not so sure that your weepiness is "bad". Crying is good for the soul, and it opens you up. I used to hardly ever cry... Without over analyzing yourself, do you feel "sad" when you get weepy, or do you feel "touched" in your heart? Do you see the difference I'm trying to make? If you're sitting around crying and you're not sure why, then you probably need to talk to your doc about increasing... or if you just feel like crying... again, without knowing why, chat with your doc. But to feel weepy WITH a reason, isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Posted by bozeman on January 13, 2003, at 0:52:15
In reply to Re: life's little victories-Bozeman, posted by EGR on January 12, 2003, at 13:05:42
ayuda--
First let me say that you positively wigged me out with the similarities in our backgrounds. (That's not a bad thing, it just took me a while to get over the speechless part.) It's like we've been living the same life.
That's probably why I can totally relate to the weepy thing. I don't know that the reasons are the same, but I've definitely been through it. My first sign of it coming on, after a triggering stressor, has been uncontrollable hand shaking. Otherwise I seem like any other day. But over time I learned that as soon as my hands start shaking like that to get the heck home as soon as possible because the last thing I need to do is lose it at work, or in rush hour traffic! Then after I got home, the ensuing "breakdown" would go one of two ways -- the "low" version, where I just wanted to crawl into bed and pull the covers over my head, incapable of making even minor decisions like how many scoops to put in the coffee maker or what socks to put on, and calling in sick until it passed (if that doesn't qualify as sick, then I don't know what the heck does) -- or the somewhat "higher" version, where I can still function "mostly" normally, but the slightest emotional thing (good or bad) triggers a flood of hormones, neurotransmitters, and chemicals in my body and I am an emotional basket case, never knowing (and powerless to prevent) if I'm going to scream/slap someone for interrupting me, or cry because they opened a door for me when I was carring a 50 lb piece of equipment.
I have developed a working theory on why it happens -- don't know if it's the same for you, though. In my case, I was so monotone for so long (read: stubbornly denying clinical depression, it seems) couldn't feel much of anything except, blah, with occasional bouts of pure panic or absolute doom. I read a LOT, psychology, biochemistry, religion, and the meaning I have finally pieced together is a little complicated, but it put my mind at rest. Here goes:
Our "natural" state is an ever-changing continuum of stimulus, emotion, reaction, and response. In those of us with neurochemical imbalances (whether triggered by hereditary tendency, stress, injury, or whatever) this cycle is interrupted and goes haywire somewhere along the way. I posit that as the "normal" interchange between stimulus and emotion/reaction gets clouded, sometimes we "experience" emotions physically that we don't "feel" emotionally, and vice versa. With this cycle disrupted, the ultimate response is unpredictable at best, sometimes inadequate for the importance of the situation, and sometimes way out of proportion to the stimulus. This, I feel, is what causes maddening stuff like "I need to leave for work RIGHT NOW and I'm not even dressed yet," or "You brought me coffee, how sweet, please leave now so I can break down and cry." In the first situation, response is inappropriately low and you don't "feel" an emotion (fear or concern or caution or urgency, which would typically be felt, because you gotta get to work on time so you don't get fired, gotta make sure no obstacles prevent that) seemingly because the stimulus/emotion/response/reaction mechanism is disrupted. In the second instance your response is exaggerated for the same reason (an overwhelming rush of gratitude or heartstring-tugging, becaue they brought you coffee, that's kind and convenient, thanks, but it's not that big of a deal, so why am I having such an extreme reaction?)
I think our bodies and our brains expect a certain amount of stimulus/response/emotion and if they don't get it, they will (for lack of a better term) manufacture or overexaggerate it, and if exposed to too much of it, they just shut that system down (hence adrenal exhaustion, etc, which I firmly believe most depressed people have some level of adrenal problem or thyroid problem or both, that's part of my theory of the entire system interactions, but I'll digress if I get into that right now. Back to your weepiness.)
So, in that long-winded sense (got more than you bargained for, eh? :-) I would agree with EGR that your weepiness is probably a good thing if it's not too much for you to handle. What I mean is, you've probably been deprived of normal emotions for so long, that you've got a flood of them built up, and your responses to "normal" events may be exaggerated for a while (depending on how long you've been deprived, a "while" is variable. It's all relative.) If that is indeed why it's happening, then it should improve over time. If it gets worse over time, or if it's interfering with your ability to function (i.e. you can't go to work or do normal activity because you cry all day long, every time someone looks at or speaks to you) then, definitely, you should consult your doctor to explore why and to find relief.
Another possibility . . . . I see in you a thoughtful, sensitive soul, trying hard to do the right thing, worried about affecting other people, trying to do good. Something I think is often overlooked in conventional medicine and by "normal" people, is the fact that those of us who are susceptible to depression and the associated cluster of other related disturbances -- we are constitutionally different than much of the rest of the world. (In fact this could be the source of the imbalance that allows the illness to develop. Wonder if anyone's researched that?) We take responsibility seriously, take ourselves too seriously, have trouble forgiving ourselves for mistakes because we should have known better (so we think and judge ourselves), etc. I believe that this internal constitution predisposes us to over-stress and "wear down" parts of us, parts of those hopelessly interrelated systems (endocrine, neurological, chemical, electrical, etc.) so that how we experience stimulus and response, creating the resultant emotion, is affected. What this could mean (though I know it doesn't feel like it) is that experiencing emotions, even hard-to-control ones like weeping at a beautiful sunrise or at a kind word someone says to you, is first, a sign that you are indeed getting better because you were able to respond to a stimulus instead of being so "worn out" neurologically that stimulus is lost on you; and second, that you are one of those "special" people who does *feel* every kindness as a gift from God, and every thoughtless act as a loss of an opportunity to touch God.
I hope that makes sense, because I believe it, and have struggled with how to resolve it in my own life. Sometimes I envy the people who don't experience their world in this way, because it seems like their version would be so much simpler. But that's from the outside looking in, and who knows what private hells they go through that we don't know about? Neither is better than the other, the two are simply different, and there's nothing to be gained by dwelling on the difference, so I don't allow myself the luxury of the envy for more than a little while. :-)
It's an entirely different matter to *know* somebody didn't mean something they said personally, and to not *take* it personally. Knowing (mentally) and feeling (emotionally) are miles apart on this subject, but I think learning how to accept the two is the key to learning to live in this world without giving up that sensitivity that makes us so special. Thank God for the Lexapro because since I've been taking it, I no longer react to stressors in such a radical and unpredictable fashion as I did before, and can (for the most part) choose my response and how to integrate the conflicting emotions/urges that result from everyday interactions and situations that most people would find unremarkable.
Again, if you don't feel any resonance with of this, and feel that your weepiness is from another source and is too much to allow you to function "normally" (for you), please, please don't suffer with it, see your doctor and find out if there's another solution available to you.
Be well, feel well, hang in there and ride it out if you're at all able to. I believe that feeling (even pain sometimes) is better than the lonely numbness that depression drives us to sometimes. Best of luck to you, Beautiful Soul --
bozeman
>
> > Question, though: things like this are still making me weepy. Is that a med problem, or am I okay to be weepy when faced with these "inspirational" things? (I was going to say sappy, but that would be hypocritical!!) It's so hard to tell when you are used to weepiness being a bad sign.
Posted by ayuda on January 13, 2003, at 7:00:11
In reply to Re: Emotional, weepy? (long) -- for ayuda, posted by bozeman on January 13, 2003, at 0:52:15
Oh, that was so sweet!!!
And it made PERFECT sense. I was canvassing my mind in response to EGR last night, trying to figure out what about this bothered me (I spent most of my childhood being told I was "overly sensitive" and perhaps have an aversion to my sensitivity because it was considered to be a negative trait then). I could not put it into words. But what you've said DOES resonate. You are right, I have not been feeling emotions -- other than negative ones, such as anger and frustration -- for a long time, even while on meds. It's been a while since I've been able to appreciate the things that I love, and to love the things that I appreciate. And I just increased my dosage of the Lexapro to 20 mg last week, and all of a sudden, I am feeling things. I get worried, though, when I feel things, that it will go back to those extremes you talk about -- how wonderfully strange for someone else to know what I have gone through all these years! Ok, now I'm starting to tear again! But anyhow, I thought last night that I was suffering from anxiety because I also realized that I have some deep feelings for a friend of mine, that felt like they came on all of a sudden the other day. After so many years of emotional dysfunction, I can't tell the difference between love, appreciation, and anxiety.
I'm sorry if this is all over the place, this is my gut reaction to your post, and normally I take time to digest things and give rational responses, but I wanted to start babbling in appreciation right away! I hope that everyone else on the board is patient, or they can just skip this one! I am going to print out your post, because I want to hold onto it and re-read it often.
It's funny, I've spent so much of my life striving for my goals, which are not -- like most people's -- monetary, but deal with enlightenment and education, searching for my purpose to serve the world. I put a lot of things to the side -- with the exception of family, though I live a thousand miles away from them, they are in my life everday, especially my nieces and nephews. And by my mid-30s I just wanted to numb myself from those emotional waves you talked about, because they are exhausting. And in the past few months, since I went off the Effexor XR and onto the Lexapro, I've felt like I could have my "old" life -- the good parts of it, where I was sociable and outgoing and genuinely happy -- back, and leave behind most of the bad parts of my old life -- the over-reacting to every tiny little disruption as being a life-or-death matter, people's every words and actions getting on my nerves, the triggering of that "fight or flight" response every damned day. My only worry is that school starts again this morning, and my biggest challenge is dealing with my professors and my students again (break is a good time to sort out life before it gets hectic again). They all get on my nerves, everyone is so self-absorbed and doesn't see the big picture, which, as a graduate assistant, I am forced to keep in perspective every day. I would like -- just for one time in my life -- to handle these things with grace and calm -- REAL grace and calm, not the pretend kind that I have grown accustomed to. I left the classroom once last semester in the state you talked about, bursting into tears as soon as I left the room because a student was viciously haranguing me over his grade on an exam in front of the whole class. I had to end class and go home to cry for an hour -- I hate that, I hate having to wait hours before I can react in a healthy way, to understand that he was frustrated and did not mean to be mean to me. Some of my students were actually mad at me for leaving the classroom -- but that didn't matter to me, I could not stand there and teach while in tears.
Well, speaking of school, I have to go get ready, but I am going to print out your message, and thanks for taking the time to think it and write it and thank you for the wonderful compliments. I guess that it's true, in a positive sense, that "it takes one to know one," because you have really made, not just my day, but a lasting impression.
> ayuda--
>
> First let me say that you positively wigged me out with the similarities in our backgrounds. (That's not a bad thing, it just took me a while to get over the speechless part.) It's like we've been living the same life.
>
> That's probably why I can totally relate to the weepy thing. I don't know that the reasons are the same, but I've definitely been through it. My first sign of it coming on, after a triggering stressor, has been uncontrollable hand shaking. Otherwise I seem like any other day. But over time I learned that as soon as my hands start shaking like that to get the heck home as soon as possible because the last thing I need to do is lose it at work, or in rush hour traffic! Then after I got home, the ensuing "breakdown" would go one of two ways -- the "low" version, where I just wanted to crawl into bed and pull the covers over my head, incapable of making even minor decisions like how many scoops to put in the coffee maker or what socks to put on, and calling in sick until it passed (if that doesn't qualify as sick, then I don't know what the heck does) -- or the somewhat "higher" version, where I can still function "mostly" normally, but the slightest emotional thing (good or bad) triggers a flood of hormones, neurotransmitters, and chemicals in my body and I am an emotional basket case, never knowing (and powerless to prevent) if I'm going to scream/slap someone for interrupting me, or cry because they opened a door for me when I was carring a 50 lb piece of equipment.
>
> I have developed a working theory on why it happens -- don't know if it's the same for you, though. In my case, I was so monotone for so long (read: stubbornly denying clinical depression, it seems) couldn't feel much of anything except, blah, with occasional bouts of pure panic or absolute doom. I read a LOT, psychology, biochemistry, religion, and the meaning I have finally pieced together is a little complicated, but it put my mind at rest. Here goes:
>
> Our "natural" state is an ever-changing continuum of stimulus, emotion, reaction, and response. In those of us with neurochemical imbalances (whether triggered by hereditary tendency, stress, injury, or whatever) this cycle is interrupted and goes haywire somewhere along the way. I posit that as the "normal" interchange between stimulus and emotion/reaction gets clouded, sometimes we "experience" emotions physically that we don't "feel" emotionally, and vice versa. With this cycle disrupted, the ultimate response is unpredictable at best, sometimes inadequate for the importance of the situation, and sometimes way out of proportion to the stimulus. This, I feel, is what causes maddening stuff like "I need to leave for work RIGHT NOW and I'm not even dressed yet," or "You brought me coffee, how sweet, please leave now so I can break down and cry." In the first situation, response is inappropriately low and you don't "feel" an emotion (fear or concern or caution or urgency, which would typically be felt, because you gotta get to work on time so you don't get fired, gotta make sure no obstacles prevent that) seemingly because the stimulus/emotion/response/reaction mechanism is disrupted. In the second instance your response is exaggerated for the same reason (an overwhelming rush of gratitude or heartstring-tugging, becaue they brought you coffee, that's kind and convenient, thanks, but it's not that big of a deal, so why am I having such an extreme reaction?)
>
> I think our bodies and our brains expect a certain amount of stimulus/response/emotion and if they don't get it, they will (for lack of a better term) manufacture or overexaggerate it, and if exposed to too much of it, they just shut that system down (hence adrenal exhaustion, etc, which I firmly believe most depressed people have some level of adrenal problem or thyroid problem or both, that's part of my theory of the entire system interactions, but I'll digress if I get into that right now. Back to your weepiness.)
>
> So, in that long-winded sense (got more than you bargained for, eh? :-) I would agree with EGR that your weepiness is probably a good thing if it's not too much for you to handle. What I mean is, you've probably been deprived of normal emotions for so long, that you've got a flood of them built up, and your responses to "normal" events may be exaggerated for a while (depending on how long you've been deprived, a "while" is variable. It's all relative.) If that is indeed why it's happening, then it should improve over time. If it gets worse over time, or if it's interfering with your ability to function (i.e. you can't go to work or do normal activity because you cry all day long, every time someone looks at or speaks to you) then, definitely, you should consult your doctor to explore why and to find relief.
>
> Another possibility . . . . I see in you a thoughtful, sensitive soul, trying hard to do the right thing, worried about affecting other people, trying to do good. Something I think is often overlooked in conventional medicine and by "normal" people, is the fact that those of us who are susceptible to depression and the associated cluster of other related disturbances -- we are constitutionally different than much of the rest of the world. (In fact this could be the source of the imbalance that allows the illness to develop. Wonder if anyone's researched that?) We take responsibility seriously, take ourselves too seriously, have trouble forgiving ourselves for mistakes because we should have known better (so we think and judge ourselves), etc. I believe that this internal constitution predisposes us to over-stress and "wear down" parts of us, parts of those hopelessly interrelated systems (endocrine, neurological, chemical, electrical, etc.) so that how we experience stimulus and response, creating the resultant emotion, is affected. What this could mean (though I know it doesn't feel like it) is that experiencing emotions, even hard-to-control ones like weeping at a beautiful sunrise or at a kind word someone says to you, is first, a sign that you are indeed getting better because you were able to respond to a stimulus instead of being so "worn out" neurologically that stimulus is lost on you; and second, that you are one of those "special" people who does *feel* every kindness as a gift from God, and every thoughtless act as a loss of an opportunity to touch God.
>
> I hope that makes sense, because I believe it, and have struggled with how to resolve it in my own life. Sometimes I envy the people who don't experience their world in this way, because it seems like their version would be so much simpler. But that's from the outside looking in, and who knows what private hells they go through that we don't know about? Neither is better than the other, the two are simply different, and there's nothing to be gained by dwelling on the difference, so I don't allow myself the luxury of the envy for more than a little while. :-)
>
> It's an entirely different matter to *know* somebody didn't mean something they said personally, and to not *take* it personally. Knowing (mentally) and feeling (emotionally) are miles apart on this subject, but I think learning how to accept the two is the key to learning to live in this world without giving up that sensitivity that makes us so special. Thank God for the Lexapro because since I've been taking it, I no longer react to stressors in such a radical and unpredictable fashion as I did before, and can (for the most part) choose my response and how to integrate the conflicting emotions/urges that result from everyday interactions and situations that most people would find unremarkable.
>
> Again, if you don't feel any resonance with of this, and feel that your weepiness is from another source and is too much to allow you to function "normally" (for you), please, please don't suffer with it, see your doctor and find out if there's another solution available to you.
>
> Be well, feel well, hang in there and ride it out if you're at all able to. I believe that feeling (even pain sometimes) is better than the lonely numbness that depression drives us to sometimes. Best of luck to you, Beautiful Soul --
>
> bozeman
>
> >
> > > Question, though: things like this are still making me weepy. Is that a med problem, or am I okay to be weepy when faced with these "inspirational" things? (I was going to say sappy, but that would be hypocritical!!) It's so hard to tell when you are used to weepiness being a bad sign.
>
>
Posted by EGR on January 13, 2003, at 8:47:46
In reply to Re: Emotional, weepy? (long) -- for ayuda » bozeman, posted by ayuda on January 13, 2003, at 7:00:11
You know, it is great to "meet" people who relate to what my life has been like. I, too, stayed in denial that I needed meds for a very long time. Your stories are mine... the no emotions/emotion breakthroughs...
I was thinking last night that although I "enjoy" being able to blow off comments that used to send me into a frenzy and an analytical mode where I had to figure out the implications of a statement, etc., etc., that maybe it's not we who are NOT normal. Maybe we're just another "version" of normal... except when it gets extreme and we suddenly start thinking of ways to kill ourselves...
Anyway, thanks for your posts... it's good to know I wasn't/am not all alone.
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