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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by JANNBEAU on March 20, 2002, at 16:55:26
In reply to Re: dealing with the loss of friends? - Jannbeau, posted by Angel Girl on March 20, 2002, at 14:42:41
> Hi Jannbeau
>
> That was very sound advice that you gave me. I will try to do that when I feel negative thoughts coming on. I'm also going to check the net for sites on cognitive therapy as you suggested. I'm very new to therapy, I've actually only had the one session so far. Most of my thoughts are negative, hence where I am today. I have a long road ahead of me to recovery and I'll be applying your advice that you gave me. I thank you for that! :)
>
> Peace,
> Angel GirlPeace to you, Angel Girl!! Thanks for responding and being open to suggestions. Something else keeps niggling at me, too. Shanti has alluded numerous times to a technique called "creative visualization"--although she doesn't name it. The book I read on this technique was "Creative Visualization" by Shakti Gawain (Shanti-Shakti, strange coincidence--both seem mystical). The thought, with creative visualization, is that you can THINK or VISUALIZE a dream or wish, no matter how small or how big, into REALITY. So, another way to counter your negative emotional state is to visualize a positive state. It's sort of like (and this is a simplistic example, but I use it when I'm getting a blood pressure check): visualize yourself sitting on a big rock in a beautiful glen. Imagine each item in the glen: the plants, the color of the sky, the birds and animals that creep up to you because you are quiet, beautiful, soulful, and gentle - - there's a waterfall nearby, the birds are singing; you are at peace with yourself and with your world--you get the idea--I'll guarantee your blood pressure will be 10 points lower if you can achieve this state of light meditation. It's the same kind of thing, but the goal is different. Your goal is, first, to defeat your depression, to love yourself, to change what you can about the situations that brought you to this state, to find acceptance of those things that you cannot change--and the wisdom to know the difference (Serenity Prayer)--is that not right, Shanti? Which brings up one more idea--Twelve Step Programs (my son found peace, acceptance, and the courage to change his life in Alcoholics Anonymous, but there are many other groups: the major thing is the SUPPORT, ACCEPTANCE and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE that people find in these meetings--and they're FREE!:).
A couple more ideas and I'll be quiet for a while. I don't want to overwhelm you:) The best self-help book I've ever picked up is the Holy Bible. The books and chapters that keep coming to mind right now are Eclesiastes 3 (old testament)and I Corinthians 13.
Then there is the old "Born to Win" by James and Jongward, which deals with Gestalt Therapy--when you are angry, tear up a piece of paper and throw it away, etc. There's a workbook that was most helpful.
It is probably most important that you DO continue with therapy. Getting better is hard to do and you don't need judgement, just guidance. Oh, and don't be surprised if your first therapist or group or whatever is not a good fit. You have to shop for a therapist like you would shop for a great pair of shoes (hard to do when your feet hurt, I know, but, if you are to wear them all the time, they MUST fit, right?--same with therapists.
Got to go now.--Going to have to limit myself electronically here if I'm not careful!
Cheers,
Jannbeau
Posted by Rrissa1317 on March 20, 2002, at 17:02:09
In reply to Re: withdrawing from effexor - angel girl-celexa, posted by lolly on March 20, 2002, at 16:24:01
I tried Celexa with no results. Switched to Effexor. Gained 10 pounds in 2 months so I'm going off it. No real improvement. But going off it is interesting. I get this "buzzing" feeling in my hands, feet and lips. Of course I'm trying to do it twice as fast as they suggested. Was on 150mg. Doc suggested I go to 75 for a week, then to 37.5 for a week. I cut that in half. I was ballooning out of my clothes too fast. Gotta get that crap out of my system. Going to try Wellbutrin next I suppose. I've been depressed as far back in my 39 years as I can remember. I'm starting to think they don't make a med to handle my warped head. Tried Prozac, left me totally emotionless. Paxil gave me a mini psychotic breakdown. Anyone got any suggestions for me? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not the one that needs fixing. It might be all these flippin' happy people that are warped....grin
Posted by maximillian on March 20, 2002, at 17:34:32
In reply to Help me please...., posted by Rrissa1317 on March 20, 2002, at 17:02:09
today is my last day on wellbutrin...threw the last four in the toilet...that was 150mg's twice daily...i will continue to take effexor twice daily @ 150mg. then cut back to 150mg. i'm off this stuff. no fun. i guess i'll get ready for the ride. any thoughts, fellow posters??????????
max
Posted by JANNBEAU on March 20, 2002, at 17:46:01
In reply to Help me please...., posted by Rrissa1317 on March 20, 2002, at 17:02:09
> I tried Celexa with no results. Switched to Effexor. Gained 10 pounds in 2 months so I'm going off it. No real improvement. But going off it is interesting. I get this "buzzing" feeling in my hands, feet and lips. Of course I'm trying to do it twice as fast as they suggested. Was on 150mg. Doc suggested I go to 75 for a week, then to 37.5 for a week. I cut that in half. I was ballooning out of my clothes too fast. Gotta get that crap out of my system. Going to try Wellbutrin next I suppose. I've been depressed as far back in my 39 years as I can remember. I'm starting to think they don't make a med to handle my warped head. Tried Prozac, left me totally emotionless. Paxil gave me a mini psychotic breakdown. Anyone got any suggestions for me? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not the one that needs fixing. It might be all these flippin' happy people that are warped....grin
Rrissa,
From what I can understand, the effects that you describe are common with withdrawing from Effexor (as is the weight gain when you started it). I take 75 mg now, down from 225 mg/day. I went very slowly down. The only physical effect I had from dropping to this dose was those strange brain shivers or zaps or something. Funny, unusual feeling of dizziness or vertigo when I moved my head. Wanted to get off completely and don't think I would have any more significant physical difficulties. However, my anxiety came roaring back at 37.5, so I decided to stick at 75 for a while. Oh, well!! I think you may be right about those "happy" people!!!! I also think that we, as a species, are suffering from "information overload." Our brains haven't evolved at the pace of technology, so the physical brain cannot handle today's society. Wonder if we'll ever be able to do that?
Cheers,
Jannbeau (nym)
Posted by JNefyn on March 20, 2002, at 18:44:38
In reply to Re: Help me please...., posted by JANNBEAU on March 20, 2002, at 17:46:01
I had a hard time with Effexor -- weight gain, high blood pressure, ocular migraines. When I came off of it, my anxiety went way, way up. But it subsided.
Don't give up, Rrissa. I read somewhere that pharmacology for depression is an art more than a science. There are a zillion combinations of drugs that can work, and the drug companies keep coming out with new drugs. Your doctor WILL find something that will work.
Julie
Posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 21:01:40
In reply to going off both effexor and wellbutrin...now!, posted by maximillian on March 20, 2002, at 17:34:32
> today is my last day on wellbutrin...threw the last four in the toilet...that was 150mg's twice daily...i will continue to take effexor twice daily @ 150mg. then cut back to 150mg. i'm off this stuff. no fun. i guess i'll get ready for the ride. any thoughts, fellow posters??????????
>
> max
Hi Max, Please take it slow with the effexor!!! I have been weaning myself off them myself. I tried stopping it and that was horrible. Why are you getting off wellbutrin?
Renee
Posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:11:34
In reply to Re: Angel, could you pls check in with us!, posted by Angel Girl on March 20, 2002, at 14:08:39
> > Hi Angel, I am glad to hear from you. I read your post to shanti and now will not panick if we don't hear from you for a few days. I hear what you are saying about yours friends, but don't put all the blame on yourself. If I read what you wrote prevously it isn't only you that needs to take responsiblity for thier actions. Your friends have some soul searching to do also.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Renee
>>
> Hi Renee
>
> Could you please explain what you mean by your post. I feel that I need "MY" feelings validated just as much as I had to validate theirs. Yes, I put them through a lot of pain and hurt but what about me??? I went through pain and hurt too. The friends that are angry with me have yet to ask me how I am doing. Am I being selfish??? Is it wrong for me to want them to ask how I am??? Is it wrong for me to want my feelings of hurt and pain validated??? I feel like I'm being very selfish. I also feel like everybody's feelings count and mine don't. They aren't the only ones that are hurting here. I'm hurting too. Should I be putting my feelings behind me???? I'm having a hard time with this. What do you think?
>
> Angel GirlHi Angel, I think you are absolutely right on! What I was trying to say is that it seemed like yu were taking all the blame and I was saying that they need to take responsiblity for how they treated you. I do not think you are selfish at all. You know Angel, we can't change anyone but ourselves and if you have expressed you feeling to your friends and they choose to stay away then as far as I am concerned its their lose. From reading your posts I think you are a very passionate and caring person and I can relate to friends that don't understand. I have found so much understanding here and hopefully some wonderful new friendships and my prayer for you is that you find the same thing and I hope I can be one of those friends that really do care about you and how you are feeling.
Hope to talk soon,
Take care
Renee
Posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:20:32
In reply to Re: dealing with the loss of friends??? - Shanti, posted by Angel Girl on March 20, 2002, at 13:53:51
Hi Guys, I know that if we don't move some of these converstations over to social-babble Dr. Bob will redirect us soon. What do you think??
Renee
Posted by Shanti on March 20, 2002, at 22:31:47
In reply to PLEASE READ THIS ! , posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:20:32
> Hi Guys, I know that if we don't move some of these converstations over to social-babble Dr. Bob will redirect us soon. What do you think??
>
> Reneesounds great to me my husband is on afternoons, the best time would be for me 9:00 pm until 11:30 pm EAstern give me directions, i'll meet you there!
peace
shanti
Posted by Jackd on March 20, 2002, at 23:39:36
In reply to Re: Shameful Perversion » Jackd, posted by SueDoeN on March 19, 2002, at 23:08:24
Wow, thanks, i enjoyed that.
Posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 0:57:05
In reply to Help me please...., posted by Rrissa1317 on March 20, 2002, at 17:02:09
What is you dx? Are you working with a pdoc or just a GP?
-- Ron
-------------------------------------------> I tried Celexa with no results. Switched to Effexor. Gained 10 pounds in 2 months so I'm going off it. No real improvement. But going off it is interesting. I get this "buzzing" feeling in my hands, feet and lips. Of course I'm trying to do it twice as fast as they suggested. Was on 150mg. Doc suggested I go to 75 for a week, then to 37.5 for a week. I cut that in half. I was ballooning out of my clothes too fast. Gotta get that crap out of my system. Going to try Wellbutrin next I suppose. I've been depressed as far back in my 39 years as I can remember. I'm starting to think they don't make a med to handle my warped head. Tried Prozac, left me totally emotionless. Paxil gave me a mini psychotic breakdown. Anyone got any suggestions for me? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not the one that needs fixing. It might be all these flippin' happy people that are warped....grin
Posted by Shanti on March 21, 2002, at 16:40:40
In reply to Re: dealing with the loss of friends? - Jannbeau, posted by JANNBEAU on March 20, 2002, at 16:55:26
The Serenity Prayer, why yes!
i actually have the little black book "Twenty Four Hours A Day" For 6 years straight (in my 20's i read it). Thanks Jannbeau i must need it again so i will start to read it once again (even though it is the same prayer for the same day every year - for me it always meant something different and i could tell how much i grew by my thought process while reading it.
If it is ok i would like to share today's prayer entry "I pray that God may be with me in my journey through the world. I pray that I may know that God is planning my journey." To me that means always have hope and even if we don't like where we are right now, remember everything is for a reason.
The 24 Hour Day Book of course!
The book i related to for healing myself is "You Can Heal Your Life". To me you must have strong belief in yourself and a willingness to hold on and keep meditating until "you get it" (the best way for me to express it)
The other books i have been drawn to (they actually come to me) are:
Conversations with God Books 1 & 2
Celestine Phrophecy
In The Meantime/One Day My Soul Just Opened Up - these books really put it into prospective for me with the combination of "You can..." hey i sound like a dr. dispensing medicine! but with these books they helped me shape and still shape who i am today and still to become.The Tao of Pooh / The Te of Piglet - i found these books break down the type of people we are quite simply and honestly (i believe i am the rabbit)
These books might not be for everyone but they certainly helped me along the way!
I would like to share something i wrote today with the words of Sarah McLauchlin:
The winter year's cold and bitter, it chills us to the bone. Haven't seen the sun for weeks to long too far from home (our soul?). Feels just like i'm sinking and i claw for solid ground (the state we get into?), pulled down by the undertow(heightened awareness?) never thought i could feel so low. In all the darkness i feel like letting go (giving up on life/ourselves?).
All of the strength all of the courage come and lift me from this place (god/universe/angels?) I know i can love you much better than this (ourselves?) full of grace, full of grace, my love.
It's better this way, I haven't seen this place before ("the real world?"), with everything we say and do hurts us all the more, it's just that we stay to long in this same old sickly skin (same experiences daily, weekly, monthly?) pulled down by the undertow (our state of being?) never thought i could feel so low. In all the darkness i feel like letting go.
All of the strength, all of the courage come and lift me from this place i know i can love you much better than this, full of grace(full of god's strength to heal ourselves and those around us?).
I know I can love you much better than this; its better this way..........
Sarah McLachlan / Surfacing / Full of Grace
( ) My interpretation of this song
Grace - God's free and undeserved favor to and love for mankind; the infulence of God operating in man to improve or strengthen him (taken from the Gage Canadian Dictionary)
I strongly suggest listening to this song with Sarah's beautiful and soulfoul voice singing this masterpiece! If you have Napstar or something like it you should really download this beautiful song.
While in this state right now (this morning right now all ok!) (not quite sure if i have climaxed yet or not ha ha) I am soooo aware of my thoughts and feelings that i must write them out.
While here -- i go into a state of not caring, i want to just be my myself even away from my beautiful family (husband, 10 year old son, 5 month old daughter)
I don't eat - food repluses me - I only eat enough to survive through this (my therapist and I did discover it is a way of me hurting myself because deep down i still don't quite love me and want to punish my self for being here on earth - i also say sorry a lot. I do know that food gives energy and life and when i finally do eat i am reminded of that once again, but instead of doing the sensible thing like eat, I smoke a lot and drink Tim Horton's French Vanilla Cappuccino (if ever in Canada you must go to a Timmy's).
I see all the "short comings" in those around me and get very irate.
When out in public, I don't quite "connect" with people, I feel like I am outside looking in....(reminds me of the little match girl)
I need to be loved, I need to be listened to, and even if you don't think what i am saying makes sense all i want you to do is just listen.
I hurt all over, my head, my back, my stomach, and full of cramps, very, very, tired.
This has just made a world of difference to me!
peace Shanti
Posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 17:02:56
In reply to Re: Angel, could you pls check in with us! » Angel Girl, posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:11:34
>
> Hi Angel, I think you are absolutely right on! What I was trying to say is that it seemed like yu were taking all the blame and I was saying that they need to take responsiblity for how they treated you. I do not think you are selfish at all. You know Angel, we can't change anyone but ourselves and if you have expressed you feeling to your friends and they choose to stay away then as far as I am concerned its their lose. From reading your posts I think you are a very passionate and caring person and I can relate to friends that don't understand. I have found so much understanding here and hopefully some wonderful new friendships and my prayer for you is that you find the same thing and I hope I can be one of those friends that really do care about you and how you are feeling.
>
> Hope to talk soon,
>
> Take care
>
> Renee
Hi ReneeThanks for answering my questions. My friends can't seem to see anything other than their own feelings and what I have done to them by my actions. I accept my responsibility for that and I'm very sorry and have told them. One of them told me that I don't deserve to have my feelings acknowledged. :( And the other one has yet to even mention anything but her own feelings. That really hurts me. I'm really suffering with all this hurt and anger I have right now. I don't know how to get rid of it.
I'm hoping to make some new friends here too and I would be honored to include you as one of my friends. <hugs> I feel like this is a haven for all of us to listen to each other, try to help and comfort everyone that comes here. Here we will not be judged by our actions and emotions because we can feel each other's pain and joys. Unfortunately when we're not here we are not embraced the same way. :(
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 17:08:28
In reply to PLEASE READ THIS ! , posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:20:32
> Hi Guys, I know that if we don't move some of these converstations over to social-babble Dr. Bob will redirect us soon. What do you think??
>
> Renee
Hi ReneeOoops!!! Guess I didn't know we couldn't have these kind of conversations here. I'm really new here. Sorry Dr. Bob. :(
Where and what is social babble???? <confused> Is it a message board like this or a chat room??? And how do I get there??? Needing some guidance here please.
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 17:17:12
In reply to Help me please...., posted by Rrissa1317 on March 20, 2002, at 17:02:09
> I tried Celexa with no results. Switched to Effexor. Gained 10 pounds in 2 months so I'm going off it. No real improvement. But going off it is interesting. I get this "buzzing" feeling in my hands, feet and lips. Of course I'm trying to do it twice as fast as they suggested. Was on 150mg. Doc suggested I go to 75 for a week, then to 37.5 for a week. I cut that in half. I was ballooning out of my clothes too fast. Gotta get that crap out of my system. Going to try Wellbutrin next I suppose. I've been depressed as far back in my 39 years as I can remember. I'm starting to think they don't make a med to handle my warped head. Tried Prozac, left me totally emotionless. Paxil gave me a mini psychotic breakdown. Anyone got any suggestions for me? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not the one that needs fixing. It might be all these flippin' happy people that are warped....grin
Hi Rrissa
Sorry you're having a hard time finding the right medication. :( I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions for you, hopefully somebody else will.
Had to smile at your comment about the flippin happy people being warped. Needing to find something to bring a smile to our faces. Thanks!
Hoping you find the right medication soon. <hugs>
Angel Girl
Posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 17:40:04
In reply to Re: Help me please...., posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 17:17:12
I'm on Effexor XR 267.5mg a day. How do you know when you're on the right AD and/or the right dosage? Although I'm ALOT better than I was even a month ago at a lower dosage, I still have alot of emotions and sadness to deal with.
What can I expect from an anti-depressant??? How should it make me feel? How do I know when it's working??? <very confused>
Thanks,
Angel Girl
Posted by JANNBEAU on March 21, 2002, at 18:47:34
In reply to PLEASE READ THIS ! , posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:20:32
> Hi Guys, I know that if we don't move some of these converstations over to social-babble Dr. Bob will redirect us soon. What do you think??
>
> ReneeHi, Renee, Yeah, you are right! We're getting WAY off the subject of medications, but, as usual, I can't figure out how to get over to Psychosocial Babble or to find you all again. Dr Bob gave me a link once, but I've lost it. Please re-enter the link for all of us. Then, as Shanti says, we can all meet over there!
Thanks, and, hopefully, see you with this thread over the way.
Jannbeau
Posted by Rrissa1317 on March 21, 2002, at 19:18:46
In reply to Re: Help me please.... » Rrissa1317, posted by Ron Hill on March 21, 2002, at 0:57:05
well this time around it's just a GP. I've run the gamut of psychs and therapists with about as much success as the meds
Posted by Rrissa1317 on March 21, 2002, at 19:21:15
In reply to going off both effexor and wellbutrin...now!, posted by maximillian on March 20, 2002, at 17:34:32
I tried to go off the effexor too fast. Don't do that. Go at least a week at 150. Then a week at 75 then a week at 37.5. Stay longer if you start having the withdrawal crap. It's no fun....
Posted by Rrissa1317 on March 21, 2002, at 19:23:38
In reply to Re: Help me please...., posted by JANNBEAU on March 20, 2002, at 17:46:01
Not until society learns that, just because we aren't always perky and happy, we don't necessarily need fixing
Posted by lolly on March 21, 2002, at 19:25:16
In reply to Re: withdrawing from effexor - angel girl-celexa, posted by Angel Girl on March 20, 2002, at 16:27:15
> > angel girl,
> > thanks! just got back from the doc and i'll be trying to dose down off the effexor while building up on celexa. i'm up for whatever happens because these side affects aren't worth it. knowing i can catch up with everyone here for help or just to chat is a great relief.
> > lolly
> > ps
> > anyone know anything about celexa?
>
>
>
> Hi lolly
>
> I didn't realize you were switching to another AD. Hope it goes well for you. What side effects were you having with the Effexor??? I was on Celexa before the Effexor and it did nothing for me. But we all have different reactions. Hope it works for you. Keep us updated.
>
> Peace,
> Angel Girlangel girl,
you mean which ones didn't i have. for two years i've done very well, the last two months not so. i have no energy, can't go to sleep or wake up, bad rash on my shoulders, night sweats and really strange vivid dreams. thats not all, but the worst. my mom has a problem of building a resistance or allergic reaction over a period of time, i hope i'm not going to be that way also. the effexor was pretty good except i never really felt happy. i used to be happy. some day soon!!!!
lolly
Posted by Rrissa1317 on March 21, 2002, at 19:27:21
In reply to PLEASE READ THIS ! , posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 22:20:32
I don't know. I'm new here, so I don't have a clue
Posted by lolly on March 21, 2002, at 19:39:52
In reply to Re: going off both effexor and wellbutrin...now! » maximillian, posted by Reneeb on March 20, 2002, at 21:01:40
> > today is my last day on wellbutrin...threw the last four in the toilet...that was 150mg's twice daily...i will continue to take effexor twice daily @ 150mg. then cut back to 150mg. i'm off this stuff. no fun. i guess i'll get ready for the ride. any thoughts, fellow posters??????????
> >
> > max
>
>
> Hi Max, Please take it slow with the effexor!!! I have been weaning myself off them myself. I tried stopping it and that was horrible. Why are you getting off wellbutrin?
>
>
> Renee
max,
take it easy with that stuff! i dropped down 1/2 on my effexor awhile back and just about lost it. if you start feeling angry add a little back in. after 2 days of 1/2 dose i had rages at the drop of a hat. i only lasted 4 days before i realized what was going on. the withdrawls from this stuff are horrible. hang in there, i'm following along at 3/4(75+37.5) dose for awhile so let me know how you're doing.
lolly
Posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 19:44:26
In reply to Re: withdrawing from effexor - angel girl-celexa, posted by lolly on March 21, 2002, at 19:25:16
> angel girl,
> you mean which ones didn't i have. for two years i've done very well, the last two months not so. i have no energy, can't go to sleep or wake up, bad rash on my shoulders, night sweats and really strange vivid dreams. thats not all, but the worst. my mom has a problem of building a resistance or allergic reaction over a period of time, i hope i'm not going to be that way also. the effexor was pretty good except i never really felt happy. i used to be happy. some day soon!!!!
> lolly
Hi lollyI have lots of side effects too on the Effexor XR. With every dosage increase comes new ones.
Are ADs supposed to make you feel 'happy'???? It's not doing that for me. It is definitely giving me alot of relief from my severe depression but happy???? Not in the least.
Actually, what is happy???? That's not an emotion of which I have any experience. :(
Angel Girl
Posted by lolly on March 21, 2002, at 20:04:27
In reply to Re: withdrawing from effexor -celexa - lolly, posted by Angel Girl on March 21, 2002, at 19:44:26
angel girl,
does anyone know what happy is???????
i just know that there are things i used to love to do like fishing, hiking, exploring and playing in the mudd(not that long ago) and they don't make me feel excited anymore. i'm only 33 and i don't want life to be this lifeless for the next 60+ years!!!!!! there has to be a way to get back some of those feelings. I got to do something this summer that very few people will ever get to do in their lives and i just couldn't get as excited about it as i should have been. it was the opportunity of my life and i took full advantage of it but the "umph" wasn't there. i realize there is no such thing as a happy pill, i guess i thought finding the medication to control my depression would include bringing that back to me. more soul searching and maybe, just maybe, i'll find that i've only missplaced it. anyway, hope the effexor works for you, my doc says her other patients are haveing great success with it.
thanks for your'e input, you made me actually think today.
lolly
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