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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 51. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
In my writing class we are focusing on Hansel and Gretel, last paper was on Snow White. My first paper I wrote about the challenges of facing the inner denial that most abused child have and then dealing with the societies denial of it too. I am the only one in the class that took that angle, so that tells one something about how people want to denial childabuse even if it is looking at them directlly.
Now I am trying to write a paper about the silver lining of child abuse. It is weird that my T talked about this the other day, and then my writing prof. suggested this to me too as a thesis of my next paper. It is weird how me writing these papers is helping me in therapy too.
What do you think the silver lining could be?
I am thinking creativity, independence and strengh. What do you think?
It is so hard emotionally to write something so close to my heart, but yet it is easy too, because I know the subject and the feelings that go along with it very well.
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 11:22:21
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
i don't know.. don't take this the wrong way, but i don't think there is a silver lining. There is no way to tell, because one can't compare what a person would have been like without it.
qualities may develop because of it.. but who knows? Maybe they would have developed anyway.. maybe even moreso or in a more productive way. It could be that someone is stronger than they might have been otherwise, but there is no way to know... and the trade-off is kind of poor.
it's like being bipolar.. some people like to believe in the idea that it makes them be a more creative person. i don't think so. i don't think my illness brought me anything positive. i think i was creative before and would have been anyway. If anything, i think the illness scattered my abilities so much that it has made it hard to make use of my positive qualities. People also have the romantic notion of the "mad artist," ie Van Gogh, but that was a deliberate fabrication of a critic at the time.. one that stuck in public consciousness. He was ill, no doubt, but madness and creativity became linked in a false way.
i hope that isn't deviating from your idea too much, i just thought it was a good comparison.
i feel like the events in my life scattered my abilities and positive traits.. rather than be the source of any of them. i see it like losing a handful of marbles (sorry for that analogy) and trying to catch them afterward. You might have had the most beautiful cat-eye marble in the world, but it's rolled under the couch and you'll never even know you had it. The ones you do regain become precious.. maybe that's more the point... that the positive qualities which develop become more precious to us.
so.. i'm willing to conceed that point.. that i have become more aware of what i have, and some of what i don't. i am more aware of these things and i guess i appreciate them more than maybe i might have otherwise. i am creative, and i am grateful i was able to develop that. In another universe i might have taken it for granted.
i hope this isn't pooping on the party so to speak. i hope you can see it as just another side of the coin (did you ever notice just how many sides this hypothetical coin actually can have?).
i wish i were writing about something i cared about.. or was even interested in. No. No, i get stuck with blah blah blah sociology blah blah blah ethnographic determinism blah blah blah. Pppffffttt.
Posted by annierose on October 7, 2007, at 12:08:11
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 12:18:18
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
I don't feel comfortable taking part in discussions about child abuse, because I wasn't abused. But I find it hard to think of silver linings in context of something like that.
Couldn't it be that strong, independent, and creative children use those resources to survive their environment? While other children with different strengths, don't.
But again, I have no direct experience.
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 12:32:05
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 11:22:21
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 12:37:10
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Wow that is a tough one and especially when one is trying right now in therapy to deal with the mental, physical, and sexual abuse I went through and to some extent still do.
Gaining strength to deal with adversity comes to mind.
Maybe doing better with some sorts of emergencies.
Hum; I have to give this some thought later as I have a report to write, and this is starting to trigger me. Sorry.
RealMe
Posted by RealMe on October 7, 2007, at 12:39:32
In reply to did i say something wrong? (nm), posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 12:32:05
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2007, at 13:07:43
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Happyflower didn't know Hansel and Gretal were abused thought they found a gingerbread house? And I wasn't abused either as a child except verbal. Phillipa what happened to Hansel and Gretal thought they got lost in the woods?
Posted by sunnydays on October 7, 2007, at 13:10:57
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
I could see an argument being made for strength being a silver lining of child abuse. But for me, I think the strength was always there and is just what helped me survive. I am grieving so much right now because I feel like I am smart enough and capable enough to do anything I could possibly want to, but the abuse has given me these emotional problems that it is hard to rise above. I feel like the strength could have been put to much better use for me than overcoming abuse.
Creativity, no, not for me at least. Part of the abuse was being told for me that I was bad at anything I did that was outside the rigid box of what is normal. Independence - maybe. Although this is not the independence I would wish for. I would wish for an independence rooted in a strong, supportive family to back me up if I ever need to turn to them for support. Not an independence driven by the need to cut myself off from them to avoid being hurt.
It is an interesting topic, though. I could see an argument being made for it, and I think you'll probably be able to think one up for your paper. I'm just not sure if it would ever ring true for me personally.
Good luck,
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
Hi Happyflower,
I think the silver lining is finally being able to let the secret out. I am struggling with this in therapy right now, it's like I should be able to trust my T with everything and anything, but that little kid in me says don't trust anyone with that big secret.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:03:34
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 11:22:21
Hey Dory,
How is that paper coming along? ;-) Thanks for writing what you think, it is helpful to me.
I guess I thinking along the line that something a lot of the best of poets, musicans, and artists do have a lot in common and one is that they have a history of abuse growing up. The silver lining would be their work. But who knows maybe they could have produced the same work if they were not abused.
Thank goodness this isn't a research paper, lol, I only have to present one side of the arguement and use the story for evidence.
My T and I were talking about life's tramatic things, and how something good does come out of it ususally if you look . He said the 3 most traumatic things that has ever happened to him, he would never take back if he could live over again because there was a silver lining.So it got me thinking about my own past and how it changed me and how maybe there are results (good and bad) that helped me develop into the who I am today. I do see a certain about of strengh that surviors have. Good luck on your paper Dory, wanna switch?
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:03
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by sunnydays on October 7, 2007, at 13:10:57
Posted by vwoolf on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:38
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
What a very interesting discussion. Sometimes I think I am more creative because of it. Stronger. More resilient.
But maybe I would have been even stronger and creative and resilient without it.
It certainly has made my life very difficult and painful and dark. If I had my life again, I might choose not to go through all these things again, especially the ect and hospitalisations. They were particularly hurtful.
But then I don't know. I am what I have been. Memory is identity. I can't really imagine it any other way.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:06:23
In reply to Re: OMG (nm) » happyflower, posted by annierose on October 7, 2007, at 12:08:11
Is there a problem? Without any explaination of "OMG", I am feeling rather judged and putdown.
Posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Poet on October 7, 2007, at 13:36:18
Maybe, sadly.
having had trauma, makes us better able to understand and help others with their trauma, cuz its part of this world....
Maybe we can deal w/harder situ cuz we can dissociate...
Maybe for the military, it gives us the rage that makes it possible to kill another human being...
I dunno, mebbe HF you can ask what they trying to get at? Cuz i find this a little bizzarre...
Sorta like saying:
Whats the silver lining of the fact (NOT) that i belted my son in the face today....is the silver lining that he didn't lose a tooth? Or that he held in his tears, or that he didn't tell.....?????? What could possibly be the siver lining in such a scenario?
I am interested to hear T's take on this....
M
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:11:33
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 7, 2007, at 12:18:18
Hi Dinah,
I see what you are saying. I am just thinking that going through those profound circumstances
, does do something to you and maybe all the results are not always negative. I don't know for sure. It is something I am discussing in therapy.
I guess since I can't change the past, it would be better to see some postive aspect of it all (a silver lining)
then to just see all negative. Just thinking outloud........
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:15:01
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
I believe my T was seeing what you said first, that me going through various traumatic things, will help me have a sensitivity to deal with others who have experienced it too. Beause I understand how it feels. I'm sorry to
have upset you.
Posted by rskontos on October 7, 2007, at 14:15:51
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
Happyflower, as I just found out about the the sa, it is still very raw for me, I will just quietly say that since I also just found out about my voices, I know that they saved me from probably death or insanity then that is the silverlining. But the abused I would have rather not had quite frankly. For now, it is still a repressed memory and may always be but, the "people" I have found inside who know the truth that have been my saving grace are my silverlining and I know from my T that it is a gift for this to happen but the pain and dark side you go through makes that hard to see and it is the abuse plus the abandonment and everything else that creates it in a small child. So for me, it is difficult to see. Maybe at the end of journey, it is just beginning, I might feel differently, but you must write the paper now. Good luck....rk
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:17:44
In reply to What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 10:52:23
one thought HF... you could write your paper looking at both ways of thinking.. your own ideas about what you feel came of it for you, and maybe exploring some of the things expressed here. In the end it all comes down to personal belief.
i do believe, and someone can correct me if i am wrong, but it's appropriate and accepted to use "victim" statements and case studies as appendices. i would certainly be happy to give you my own if you wanted it. You don't have to though.
an interesting side story about that idea though.. a gal from the uni i originally attended wanted to become a social worker for abused kids/teens. She wrote a paper for a class and did what i said above ***except** she didn't identify it as a case study.. the prof thought it was a self-admission of abusing a teen. Instead of contacting authorities or confronting the student, she went to the dept chair and together they identified the student to children's services as a potential abuser. SHe was red-flagged in the system. Trouble is, no one told her. SHe did not gain admission to the school of social work and could not get a job doing anything near what she wanted. Letters were being sent here and there preventing her from getting into programs, etc. At some point someone noticed she was living with her long-term boyfriend and his kids, so they contacted him privately to tell him. That's how she found out!
anyways, it ended up in a huge lawsuit (go figure) and it went into appeals, etc because the uni didn't want to own up to ruining this gal's life. SHe got a million dollars in the end but totally not worth it imo.
so moral is : double check your source credits. yikes.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:19:07
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse?, posted by vwoolf on October 7, 2007, at 14:04:38
Thanks vwoolf,
You comments are what I am thinking about in respects to my own childhood abuse. Am I stronger, more creative?
If I didn't go through what I did , would I have been less stronger or more, less creative or more? I guess there is no way to know really. But going through what we did, did have a profound result. I am just wondering if it is all negative ( I know mostly negative), but is there a strengh that we gained because of it?
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:23:25
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by sunnydays on October 7, 2007, at 13:10:57
Thanks SD,
Your comments helped me. Maybe the topic is too hard to come up with for my paper.
My other choice was with Bennehiem saying that children make up the stories of abuse because they are projecting themselves onto their parents. I didn't want to write about that because I believe his Freudian view is what kept children from reaching out for help for decades because people thought they were making it all up.
So maybe I can come up with another idea, this is so hard.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:30:35
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » happyflower, posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:17:44
WOw that is scary what happened to that girl!
I would love to do both arguements, but we have to choose one view point since the paper is only 4-5 pages. Plus I don't want to use my personal history to make the arguement, I just want to use the story of Hansel. I have to connect 2 texts, once being the Grimms story and the other either Maria Tatar essay or Bettleheims. I don't care for either one, but at least Tatar's version does belief the story was written about child abuse. Bettleheims's essay is about how children just make it all up in their daydreams.
Posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:36:33
In reply to silver lining of child abuse?**Trigger***, posted by muffled on October 7, 2007, at 14:07:08
Maybe the silver lining in your about example of using your son was that you DIDN"T hit him because you know how it feels. I dont' know if you were abused or not as a child , but sometimes the cycle continues, but in your case it didn't .
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:40:21
In reply to Re: OMG » annierose, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:06:23
> Is there a problem? Without any explaination of "OMG", I am feeling rather judged and putdown.
yeah, me too, but for the opposite reason.. either way it feels like somebody supposedly said something wrong.. it thought it was me
Posted by Dory on October 7, 2007, at 14:43:54
In reply to Re: What is the silver lining of child abuse? » Dory, posted by happyflower on October 7, 2007, at 14:03:34
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