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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 54. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
I have had enough. Therapy is only making my life more complicated and stressed. I called today to cancel my appointments and left him a message that I didn't think we can work together and that therapy is gettting to be too much for me. I need to trust him, and I can't trust a good lier. I am sick of his cold phone calls and him treating me like I am a fly bugging around his head that he want to get rid of. So he smacked me down today. I think I will just stay that way. He never called back, and I know he was in the office today. So that is that , he is sick of me, I do annoy him, and he doesn't really care about me. I am sure he is happy he doesn't have to see my butt anymore.
Posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 17:27:47
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
Hey,
Don't feel so low. I am sure none of your thinking about yourself is true.. It will pass and I think you will continue to see him.I think he made a huge mistake admitting that he lies to you.. he shouldn't really have done that. That makes the whole thing seem very questionable in your mind and I wonder why he said it.
I am sure he is not fed up with you.. We all feel that way every now and then, but many therapists seem to not think so.
Posted by Poet on July 1, 2005, at 17:31:24
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
Hi Happyflower,
I have trouble trusting my therapist, if she told me that she was a good liar, what little trust I have would be gone. I don't get why he said that to you unless he was trying to be funny, which he wasn't.
I can understand why you quit and I'm sorry you felt you had to. I don't know if you live in the US, but if you do, maybe your T left the office early for the Holiday weekend? I hate to think that he would treat you so poorly when all you would like to know is why he said what he did. Common courtesy means a return phone call. I hope you get that along with an apology- you deserve it.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:42:04
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Poet on July 1, 2005, at 17:31:24
He did return my phone call yesterday when I was upset on what he said about lying, I explained it in my post above this one.
What I am upset is the way he treated me on the phone call. He acted like he didn't want to talk to me. He told me I could call him if I needed to. He rushed me and acted conceited. It pissed me off and I am sick of it.
So I called today and cancelled all my appointments. I know he was in the office because I asked his secretary before I left him the message. I don't know maybe he thinks I am bluffing. Who knows? I could be over reacting . My life is so nuts right now and all I needed was a little support from him.
Posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 17:47:02
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » Poet, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:42:04
Remember I told you about phone calls?? It was more or less to prevent this kind of thing.
Because it is a very easy case to be arbitrary and to get on into analysis about the voice, about how quick the call was etc. That is why it is best to keep between session contacts to only when you really need it. Otherwise, if previously he responded well to phone calls, and he starts not responding so well at a later point, then it will make you really worry. He might have though you are just wishing to chat with him, and might have tried to discourage it. Or he could have also thought "Can't we keep these kind of discussions to therapy hours"..
Just my 2 cents. Maybe it was really nothing, and he was probably rushed for his next appointment or so and he tried to keep it minimal
Posted by Poet on July 1, 2005, at 18:08:47
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » Poet, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:42:04
Hi Happyflower,
Sorry, I should have read your first post. I'm way behind in keeping up to date on babble.
Pinkeye might have a good point about limiting phone calls, maybe he is annoyed with you, but I think he should call you to talk about why you quit.
I wish you weren't going nuts, and that your therapist could be more supportive. We're here. I should be able to be online more this weekend. Keep posting. We care.
Poet
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 18:57:34
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 17:47:02
> Remember I told you about phone calls?? It was more or less to prevent this kind of thing.
I find your "I told you so" comments aren't being very supportive and are off base. He told me I can call whenever I feel I need to. I called during business hours only 3 times in the last 6 months. It is hardly abusing phone priviledges. I feel I had ever right to question him and I have done nothing wrong. Plus I have said I would pay for the phone calls.
> >
Posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 19:11:47
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 18:57:34
Ok. I am sorry.
I didn't mean to be un supportive.
I didn't say you were abusing phone privileges. What I was trying to say is, sometimes, the therapists give us lot of freedom, and then we become used to using it. But at some point, the tehrapist gets overwhelmed or feels he is giving in too much and tries to restrict it. Then it ends up hurting us the most - because we are used to more privileges. So from the beginning, if we have clear demarking and expectations - like how many phone calls in a month are allowed, how long the phone calls can last, what kind of issues warrants a phone call etc, it saves us heart ache later. I had that experience with my previous T - the rules were almost always very ambiguous - I could write whenever I wanted, howmuchever I wanted, but the kind of replies would vary so widely. Sometimes I will get two replies in a week, sometimes once in 3 months, and I didn't know what to expect and whether I am bugging him.
If he had said something like "You can write 2 emails per month, and I will reply once a month" then it would have been lot more consistent and given me lesser room for speculation and this development of worry and fear that I am abusing it etc.. And also that would have saved me a lot of trouble when he stopped writing, if he had said "now you can write 1 mail per month, and I will reply once in 3 months"..I hope you are seeing my point. Sometimes when the Ts trust us and give us privilege, we get to decide, and since we are in an intense emotional state, we are not really sure of what the right thing to do is.
That is why for your own sake more than his, I advised you to keep your expectations of his phone support to the minimum. I didn't say you were abusing - more I was saying that you need a clear expectation to save yourself lot of trouble down the line. And I was definitely not trying to be like a big sister and say "See - I told you so"..
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 19:22:41
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Poet on July 1, 2005, at 18:08:47
Thank you Poet for your support. This is what I need and I appreciate it very much :)
Posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 19:29:33
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 19:11:47
hmm.. maybe I don't understand what you are feeling.. I shall better keep quite instead of harming in the name of helping.:-)
Hope you feel better soon
Posted by messadivoce on July 1, 2005, at 20:49:22
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
Oh my dear Happyflower......I am so sorry. I don't blame you for being mad.
I am sorry he didn't return your call today. Could it be that he needs time to think about this? Or that he figured you were angry and wanted to give you some initial space?
I hope that even if you end therapy with him, that you will be able to have a few more sessions to determine FOR HIM why you are quitting. I think you owe yourself that.
(((Happyflower)))
Voce
Posted by shrinking violet on July 1, 2005, at 21:03:44
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Poet on July 1, 2005, at 18:08:47
{{{{{{{{{{happyflower}}}}}}}}}}
I'm so sorry things aren't working out right now.....I hope this is just a misunderstanding, and he calls you soon to talk this out.
Please take care,
sv
Posted by Jazzed on July 1, 2005, at 21:30:46
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
> He never called back, and I know he was in the office today. So that is that , he is sick of me, I do annoy him, and he doesn't really care about me. I am sure he is happy he doesn't have to see my butt anymore. \
I'm so sorry happy. I know how bad you must feel right now. I wish it weren't the weekend.
Does he work tomorrow? Any chance he'll call you tomorrow if he's working. You're going to need a lot of support this weekend, so feel free to vent.
(((hugs))))
jazzy
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:37:58
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Jazzed on July 1, 2005, at 21:30:46
Thanks Jazzy,
I really need some support right now. I think I might have over reacted with him, and now i feel bad. I don't believe he works Saturdays. In fact half of clients are kids, and most of them stop for the summer. So I am sure he has a lot of extra time off. I hope he will accept me back, and not hate me too much after quiting on him. Thanks for the support Jazzy! :)
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:44:12
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by messadivoce on July 1, 2005, at 20:49:22
> Oh my dear Happyflower......I am so sorry. I don't blame you for being mad.
Thank you messadivoce! I feel really guilty right now. Maybe I overreacted with him. I hope he isn't too pissed not to take me back. He is a good T and I treated him unfairly. :(
> I am sorry he didn't return your call today. Could it be that he needs time to think about this? Or that he figured you were angry and wanted to give you some initial space?
I think he might be confused on what to do. We do very good work together and he is wondering what the heck happened? I am not saying what he did was wrong, but I think I might have overreacted. My PMS is really bad this month.
> I hope that even if you end therapy with him, that you will be able to have a few more sessions to determine FOR HIM why you are quitting. I think you owe yourself that.I don't think I really want to quit, but I guess if he is too frusterated with me, he might let me stay away. :( I was thinking about sending him an apology.
Thanks for the hugs, I really need them now! :)
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:46:35
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by shrinking violet on July 1, 2005, at 21:03:44
Thanks for the hugs and support SV. I think it is very nice of you to think of me while you are going through all your stuff. It shows me how neat of a person you are! :) ((((hugs back to ya))))
Posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:51:12
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 21:46:35
Posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by messadivoce on July 1, 2005, at 20:49:22
I echo what Voce said. IF you do decide to stop (and I think I'm hearing that you don't really want that...) please do give a lot of thought to going through it "properly", so to speak. That's not the right word, but...I mean, can you imagine the irony with all of us agreeing on how T's should be SO careful about abrupt or sudden-anythings about stopping contact...and then we get so emotional one day, we try to do it to ourselves! I've been so close, several times....
I don't mean, "HF, go take care of your T's feelings like he should take care of yours," no, no. Because you NEVER have to focus on that - not your job. We try to be civil and kind to them - but only to a point. I think if he's as good as he seems, he'll certainly understand *impulsive quitting.* Many posters here have done it - it's part of the process for some.
You must feel so bad, though. Mad and confused and silly and resentful you have to go through this... (((hf))) let us help through the weekend,okay?
But I wonder if this might turn out to be a HUGE step in moving therapy forward. Can't pin it down, but something about the tone of your first post made me feel like there's something underneath here, something important from RL to hash out...not to mention he HASN't given you enough justification for the "liar" thing.
I'll bet the phone call had other stuff we can't imagine going on before and after it for him, too.
Because isn't him being short, cold or anything like it out of whack for his demeanor as your T.?You hang in there and try not to jump to conclusions...that thinking can cause a ton of pain when really, what we fear isn't even close to the truth...at least find out fact-to-face first, what the truth is...gosh have I been there with 2 T's, and usually, they weren't feeling any bad stuff toward me at all... have hope...I do ! :-)
Posted by daisym on July 1, 2005, at 23:54:02
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
I agree with Tender, I wish I could say it as well! We've all done the pull away thing, both on voice mail and in person. I'm sorry he didn't get back to you today, I bet he was swamped and/or leaving early. For all you know, his secretary didn't get the messages to him...maybe SHE left early. But my best guess is that you didn't ask him to call back, so he is giving you some space. (You didn't, did you? Sorry if I assumed this. )
I also know that different therapists react differently to clients who quit. Most wait for the client to contact them and ask to meet again. It depends on conversations you might have had around this kind of thing. I'm sure he doesn't want an apology from you. I'd bet that if you called and said, "I want my appointment back" you would get it and then he would want to know why you felt the need to take such a strong stance. Mine would ask me if I was testing him and he would be OK with me doing that.
And I seriously doubt he thought you were "bugging him" with too many phone calls. Obviously you are upset and he would expect multiple calls until you felt calmer. Or at least mine would. Calling is tricky, again it depends on the individual therapist. But mine has always insisted that he wants to prevent a melt down if possible instead of trying to mop up the puddle. You should ask him to ease your mind.
I'm sorry it is a long weekend. I hear your stress and sadness. Have faith that it will work out.
Hugs to you,
Daisy
Posted by Jen Star on July 2, 2005, at 0:12:12
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on July 1, 2005, at 17:47:02
Pinkeye,
as always I think your advice is right on the money! :) I agree with you about phone calls. It's so hard to dissect someone's tone, attitude, and wants from a phone call. I think it sometimes can put us at a definite disadvantage, esp. if we are the kind of people who analyze everthing. I know I am one of those people -- I'm ALWAYS reading into people's tones, inflections, etc.I hope you're well.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by Jen Star on July 2, 2005, at 0:13:55
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
hi happyflower,
I'm sure that your T doesn't feel that way about you! You're a great person and you're worth so much more than you give yourself credit for. Hopefully he'll realize how upset he's made you, and reach out to close the gap. I hope you two can work past this and continue therapy -- good, non-lying therapy, that is!Do you think that an explanation from him about the lying comment would help you feel trust for him again?
take care, and have a good weekend if you can! :)
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on July 2, 2005, at 9:47:55
In reply to I quit therapy today, posted by happyflower on July 1, 2005, at 17:09:25
I quit maybe seven, maybe more, times in the first five years of therapy. My therapist says he learned all he knows about how to treat a terminating client from me.
He usually called and asked to have a "final" session. And he usually called within a day or two.
But I'm sure they vary widely on this.
In general, if you want a return phone call, you have to say so. We would all like them to *know* that of course we want a return phone call. If we're upset enough to call them, of course we want them to call back. But either they're stubborn or dense and they won't. I think they want us to take responsibility for that.
What I would do, and what I have done, is to call him and tell him I would like to talk about everything with him, and could he call to schedule an appointment.
It might be a bit trickier since it's a holiday weekend.
My therapist never held it against me that I quit. Not openly anyway. It took him a few years after I quit quitting to really trust that I wouldn't do it again. In fact, I'm still not sure he doesn't trust me not to do it.
But he always took me back, graciously.
I think most therapists are used to this. It's not all that uncommon. I think therapists that refuse to take a client back are rare.
Now, I did have a pdoc who refused to take me back. But I had only seen him three times when I quit. (Of course, it was the blasted Wellbutrin he had me on that made me agitated enough to quit.)
It'll be ok Happyflower. And obviously you have something you need to talk to him about. It will be good to clear the air.
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:07:37
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today » happyflower, posted by Dinah on July 2, 2005, at 9:47:55
By the way, if you ever want a card that says you are sorry, GOOD LUCK, there are very few.
Well I found a cute card that had a sad bassit hound on the front that said, I need you. Then inside it says, I am a bassit-case without you. (like basket case). This was the best I could come up with, I think it will make him laugh. I told him I was sorry that I overreacted to my anger against him. (it still says I am angry, but that I went over board). I asked him if he will continue to work with me. I promised that I won't "bite". lol I hope he sees some humor in that because I sure bit a piece of his a*S off the other day. lol I hope he will take me back, what do you think? I know he likes me, but he knows I am a PITA. He even admitted it to me, in different words, but still the same meaning. Wish me luck!
Posted by pinkeye on July 2, 2005, at 12:11:41
In reply to I sent him a card today :), posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:07:37
Don't worry about it. Most therapists want us to take responsibility for all our actions, and the reason why he didn't call you back was perhaps he wanted you to own your decision of going to therapy. He probably thought it is good for you to think it through and figure it out yourself.
And he definitely will not make an issue out of this, and perhaps will just want to know why you were promtpted to take such an action. You can then use that session to explore more about yourself.
Most of us have done this in the past including me!!!. My ex T of course would never apologize without me trying to understand things first by myself.
Posted by happyflower on July 2, 2005, at 12:25:11
In reply to Re: I quit therapy today, posted by 10derHeart on July 1, 2005, at 22:50:50
> I echo what Voce said. IF you do decide to stop (and I think I'm hearing that you don't really want that...) >
You are right I really don't want to quit, I overreacted. I hope he will take me back. I would be really sad, if he deceides I am too much of a pain.
> You must feel so bad, though. Mad and confused and silly and resentful you have to go through this... (((hf))) let us help through the weekend,okay?
Yes, you said my feelings exactly. It kinda makes me crazy that I have to have some responsibilty with me and my T's relationship with all the other stuff I have to deal with. But I guess this is like a "practice realationship", so I hope the fact that I have appolized, it means that I am not a complete jerk.
> But I wonder if this might turn out to be a HUGE step in moving therapy forward. Can't pin it down, but something about the tone of your first post made me feel like there's something underneath here, something important from RL to hash out...not to mention he HASN't given you enough justification for the "liar" thing.
I think you might be right, I don't know what, but I do think you are on to something. Usually I make big strides in therapy after I have a fall out. I still think he shouldn't ever tell a client he is a good liar though. I think he realizes maybe it was a big mistake, because look how I reacted. I bet we will think twice before he ever says that again! lol> I'll bet the phone call had other stuff we can't imagine going on before and after it for him, too.
Yup, I can imagine him saying "up yours lady" when he got my message. I told him that he let me down. He won't admit I pissed him off or made him feel bad, but you know it does happen. They aren't invensible against their own feelings. I know he really like me, and I know he really wants to help me, but sometimes I must make him shake his head and say "What the ?" lol
> Because isn't him being short, cold or anything like it out of whack for his demeanor as your T.?
Yes, he normally keeps his conversations business like and short on the phone, but this time it seemed like he took what I said personally. But normally he doesn't act cold to my calls. He told me I could call whenever I really needed to talk to him, so I know he isn't upset that I called him. I have even asked him this before, and he said not to worry about it, it is his job.> .. have hope...I do ! :-)
Thanks fo your hope, and support. I love that way you write things, it is like it comes straight from your heart!. Thanks!
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