![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
Hi, I first became depressed when I was ten years old. It resulted in irritability, anger, and conduct problems in grade school. I'm now 32 and I'm not angry, but I have been a really low-functioning depressive for about 7 years. I have horrible insomnia, I experience no happiness at all, and I can't even laugh at anything any more. I can literally watch a funny tv show for hours and not feel like laughing once. It seems pretty obvious that my depression has gotten worse with age. How has your depression progressed as you've gotten older. Has it gotten better or worse?
Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 24, 2015, at 4:09:47
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
I have read these kinds of questions earlier on this forum. I thought I would post a message to this. Have you tried these activities:
physical: yoga, martial arts, weight training, aerobics, massage - they all have different effects
sports: group sports, white water sports, extreme sports, adventure sports
diet: have you tried juicing, smoothies, sprouts, fermented foods - all different effects
brain: try these websites lumosity, cognifit, brainHQ, happy neuron
mental: try learning a new language, read international literature, try appreciation courses, try introductory courses
community: try going to an arts festival, music dance festival, community fair, outdoors hike/trek in the wilderness or sanctuary, fishing/boating/cruise ship activities
friends: do you have friends to laugh with, to discuss and analyze and get into details with, to plan and organize and overview and design, to troubleshoot an issue, to debate and argue
work: get a job which helps you forget your troubles, earns you money and improves your mood
some of this may work - some of it may not - it may work in a combination
Posted by SLS on March 24, 2015, at 10:24:58
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
> Hi, I first became depressed when I was ten years old. It resulted in irritability, anger, and conduct problems in grade school. I'm now 32 and I'm not angry, but I have been a really low-functioning depressive for about 7 years. I have horrible insomnia, I experience no happiness at all, and I can't even laugh at anything any more. I can literally watch a funny tv show for hours and not feel like laughing once. It seems pretty obvious that my depression has gotten worse with age. How has your depression progressed as you've gotten older. Has it gotten better or worse?
My depression has become significantly worse over time. Mine started no later than age 10. Irritability, anxiety, and anergia emerged first, followed by depressed mood an dysphoria.Still later, cognitive and memory impairments became evident. Interestingly, depressed mood and dysphoria have mitigated, although a lack of interest and motivation persist.
I don't know if this is a function of age rather than a function of the time spent in the ill state.
- Scott
Posted by b2chica on March 24, 2015, at 15:50:55
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by SLS on March 24, 2015, at 10:24:58
i remember first real depressive episode when i was about 9, but really showed bipolar mixed/aggitated depression when i was 30 (first hospitalization).
over the years it seems that when it hits, it hits harder and faster (spiral down) than previous.
but i also have trouble finding meds that work and often have breakthrough symptoms, so it could just be that its not worse than typical just that the meds that Im on at the time dont cover as well. ..b2
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 24, 2015, at 20:40:37
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by SLS on March 24, 2015, at 10:24:58
my first depression was age 11-12. Lots of agitation, obsessions, etc. Age 16 I developed psychotic depression. By 23, I was given involuntary electroshock following some kind of mood+psychotic episode.
So..yeah...mine got worse with age :-(
Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 24, 2015, at 22:53:47
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
Did you read my previous post?
If pills have not worked all this while what makes you think pills will work now?
--------------------------------quote reference
http://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/mental-health/rewire-your-brain-for-a-happy-life-29723181.html
----------------------------quote referenceRewire your brain for a happy life
Staying healthy in your mind is a matter of five simple changes, writes Shane CochraneShane Cochrane
PUBLISHED
05/11/2013 | 01:00Dr John Arden, a California-based psychologist and neuropsychologist, is the creator of a type of therapy that combines the latest findings from brain research with psychotherapy.
----------------------------------------
It's used by therapists around the world to treat those suffering from anxiety and depression.
Though his work is used to inform psychotherapists, Dr Arden believes that the keys to good mental health are in our own hands, that we can help ourselves deal with anxiety and depression, and make changes in our lives to help prevent these conditions.
So, in 2010, he published 'Rewire Your Brain', outlining his therapy in a way the rest of us could understand and use.
"I wrote 'Rewire Your Brain' because I thought the general public needed to have a practical, down-to-earth description of how to make sense of what we know about the brain so they could take care of their brains better and suffer less from anxiety and depression," he says.
'The Brain Bible', his next book, will be published in February 2014.
It's a companion to 'Rewire Your Brain' and Arden describes it as a "manual for how to take care of your brain."
The principles of Dr Arden's therapy are quite simple: he doesn't want us to pop pills; he wants us to plant SEEDS.
"If you plant SEEDS, and cultivate them on a regular basis, then, as you get older, your brain will last longer. You'll have less stress and better memory capacity."
These SEEDS are Social interaction, Exercise, Education, Diet and Sleep.
In advance of his book, Dr Arden outlines how each of these factors contribute to healthy brains.
Social interaction
"We know now that those who are lonely or socially isolated get dementia symptoms sooner than people who have robust social support," Dr Arden says.
A recent Dutch study followed 2,000 elderly people all of whom lived alone for three years.
They found that those who reported feeling lonely were 2.5 times more likely to develop dementia than those who lived alone but didn't feel lonely. People who have limited social interaction can also experience accelerated ageing.
But, as Dr Arden points out, bad relationships can be destructive to the brain.
Exercise
A number of studies have found that exercise is an effective and efficient way to help alleviate the symptoms of depression. It's affordable and easily accessible, unlike psychotherapy; and has none of the side-effects of antidepressants.
And unlike antidepressants, which can take weeks to be effective, exercise can provide immediate relief.
"Up until about 11,000 years ago, all humans were hunter-gatherers and moved about 10 miles a day.
"Today, it's extraordinarily rare for any of us to move 10 miles a day.
"But we have the same bodies, and our bodies have evolved to move. But, unfortunately, we're not doing that right now.
"But exercise and I'm talking about aerobic exercise, meaning get your heart rate up and sweat a little is one of the best antidepressants we have. It's as good as any antidepressant medication and psychotherapy combined."
Exercise isn't just an effective treatment for depression, it's also a preventative.
A study by the Southern Methodist University found that those who exercise are less likely to suffer from depression and anxiety. But there's more, says Dr Arden.
"There's a wonderful substance called brain-derived neurotrophic factor. Most people can't remember that, so I just call it miracle grow."
It promotes growth of new cells in the hippocampus. The hippocampus plays an important role in memory formation, but it's also the part of the brain affected by the ageing process, chronic stress, and alcohol consumption.
"Miracle grow gets released under certain conditions, and aerobic exercise is one of those conditions."
Education
"Every brain has 100 billion brain cells. Each cell is connected to 10,000 other brain cells. And those connections get more plentiful, and more robust, as we learn more things," explains Dr Arden.
"It's pretty evident that people with higher levels of education, or people who are constantly challenging themselves to learn more, build more neural networks in the brain."
Swedish researchers have been able to measure the brain's physical effects brought about by learning. They found that learning a second language causes observable changes in the hippocampus and parts of the cerebral cortex.
Diet
"Fried food is very destructive to the brain, so trans fats should be avoided," Dr Arden said.
Simple carbohydrates, such as sugar, white flour and white rice, should also be avoided because "they're like poison to the brain."
A Finnish study of 2,000 middle-aged men, carried out over three years, found that those who had a diet rich in vegetables, fruit, poultry and fish had a low prevalence of depressive symptoms compared to those who consumed a lot of processed meats and high-sugar snacks and drinks.
But there may be a more serious reason for getting our diet right.
"Do you know what some neurologists are now calling Alzheimer's disease?" he asks. "Diabetes type 3. So, if you want to get Alzheimer's quickly, get diabetes."
Sleep
"There's an architecture to sleep," says John. "The most important stage is called stage 4 sleep that's the deepest sleep. Good quality sleep is critical for your ability to think clearly the next day.
"We know that people who take sleeping pills or drink alcohol at night get bad quality sleep, and they don't get as much stage 4 sleep. So they wake up the next morning and they have more stress hormones, like cortisol, pumping through their systems, and they can't think as clearly."
But good sleep is also critical for the physical integrity of the brain.
Deep sleep promotes myelin production, the substance that coats our brain cells and is essential to their proper functioning. Damage to the myelin surrounding brain cells is associated with conditions like multiple sclerosis.
It's Never Too Late
The SEEDS of good mental health can be planted at any age.
"The sooner the better, but it's never too late," he says. "Some people make the mistake of thinking, 'I missed my opportunity, so why even try?'
"But, if you're not practising these five factors on a regular basis then you're impairing your brain's longevity.
"We now know so much more about what anxiety and depression look like in the brain. And it is really exciting to know that we can help ourselves to feel more joy in our lives, get more out of it, and not be bogged down by brain fog."
Dr Arden will be giving a talk at the Brooks Hotel, Dublin, on November 5. It's called Sharpen Your Brain. www.seminars.ie for details.
Irish Independent
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:00:04
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 24, 2015, at 4:09:47
Hi, thank you for commenting on this. Those are all great suggestions and I have tried all of those things. A few things make me less depressed than I already am, including a few things on your list. However, over time my depression and insomnia has just gotten worse and I just really don't care about anything anymore. Things that I once found mildly entertaining or exciting just don't do it for me anymore. It seems the older I get the more numb and emotionless I become.
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:01:13
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 24, 2015, at 4:09:47
> I have read these kinds of questions earlier on this forum. I thought I would post a message to this. Have you tried these activities:
>
> physical: yoga, martial arts, weight training, aerobics, massage - they all have different effects
>
> sports: group sports, white water sports, extreme sports, adventure sports
>
> diet: have you tried juicing, smoothies, sprouts, fermented foods - all different effects
>
> brain: try these websites lumosity, cognifit, brainHQ, happy neuron
>
> mental: try learning a new language, read international literature, try appreciation courses, try introductory courses
>
> community: try going to an arts festival, music dance festival, community fair, outdoors hike/trek in the wilderness or sanctuary, fishing/boating/cruise ship activities
>
> friends: do you have friends to laugh with, to discuss and analyze and get into details with, to plan and organize and overview and design, to troubleshoot an issue, to debate and argue
>
> work: get a job which helps you forget your troubles, earns you money and improves your mood
>
> some of this may work - some of it may not - it may work in a combination
Hi, thank you for commenting on this. Those are all great suggestions and I have tried all of those things. A few things make me less depressed than I already am, including a few things on your list. However, over time my depression and insomnia has just gotten worse and I just really don't care about anything anymore. Things that I once found mildly entertaining or exciting just don't do it for me anymore. It seems the older I get the more numb and emotionless I become.
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:04:54
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by SLS on March 24, 2015, at 10:24:58
> > Hi, I first became depressed when I was ten years old. It resulted in irritability, anger, and conduct problems in grade school. I'm now 32 and I'm not angry, but I have been a really low-functioning depressive for about 7 years. I have horrible insomnia, I experience no happiness at all, and I can't even laugh at anything any more. I can literally watch a funny tv show for hours and not feel like laughing once. It seems pretty obvious that my depression has gotten worse with age. How has your depression progressed as you've gotten older. Has it gotten better or worse?
>
> My depression has become significantly worse over time. Mine started no later than age 10. Irritability, anxiety, and anergia emerged first, followed by depressed mood an dysphoria.Still later, cognitive and memory impairments became evident. Interestingly, depressed mood and dysphoria have mitigated, although a lack of interest and motivation persist.
>
> I don't know if this is a function of age rather than a function of the time spent in the ill state.
>
>
> - Scott
Hi, the progression of your illness is very interesting. Mine has really gotten worse over time. The thing that alarms me the most is that the longer this goes on the less I care about everything and the more I detach from life.
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:06:39
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by b2chica on March 24, 2015, at 15:50:55
> i remember first real depressive episode when i was about 9, but really showed bipolar mixed/aggitated depression when i was 30 (first hospitalization).
> over the years it seems that when it hits, it hits harder and faster (spiral down) than previous.
> but i also have trouble finding meds that work and often have breakthrough symptoms, so it could just be that its not worse than typical just that the meds that Im on at the time dont cover as well. ..
>
> b2Hi, that's a really interesting viewpoint on it. I'm starting to wonder if meds really do anything at all. Hopefully one day, something will work.
Posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:08:16
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by Christ_empowered on March 24, 2015, at 20:40:37
Hi, yours seems to get worse with age as well. Mine actually started with a lot of OCD and now I have none and I don't care enough about anything to obsess over it at all. Did your OCD completeley disappear the more depressed you have become and the longer you have been depressed
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2015, at 1:29:35
In reply to Have you read this article? » babbler20, posted by stan_the_man70 on March 24, 2015, at 22:53:47
> If pills have not worked all this while what makes you think pills will work now?
Because many people respond to untried drug treatments, including drug combinations.
I failed to respond to more than a dozen drug treatments before I found one that brought me into complete remission. Unfortunately, the doctor opted to discontinue treatment after 9 months, and I subsequently relapsed.
It is my personal observation as a layman that, for severe cases of chronic, recurrent, or bipolar depression, exercise will not bring the majority of suffers to complete remission.
Keyords: severe; chronic; recurrent; bipolar; remission
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 26, 2015, at 1:41:31
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:04:54
> The thing that alarms me the most is that the longer this goes on the less I care about everything and the more I detach from life.
It is reasonable for anyone who has suffered so long a series of failed treatments for any illness to become depressed, hopeless, helpless, and detached. When this is compounded with a biological mood illness, these normal reactions are exaggerated or distorted. When anxiety and anhedonia enter the equation, derealization becomes a possibililty.
I don't know what to suggest to you for you to renew your positive energy. For me, I have always liked to have a list of untried treatments to look forward to. It is very proactive and can be empowering.
Please don't give up.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 26, 2015, at 15:55:41
In reply to Re: Have you read this article? » stan_the_man70, posted by SLS on March 26, 2015, at 1:29:35
Scott which one has brought you complete remission and why cant you get back on it?
> > If pills have not worked all this while what makes you think pills will work now?
>
> Because many people respond to untried drug treatments, including drug combinations.
>
> I failed to respond to more than a dozen drug treatments before I found one that brought me into complete remission. Unfortunately, the doctor opted to discontinue treatment after 9 months, and I subsequently relapsed.
>
> It is my personal observation as a layman that, for severe cases of chronic, recurrent, or bipolar depression, exercise will not bring the majority of suffers to complete remission.
>
> Keyords: severe; chronic; recurrent; bipolar; remission
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by kendoka on March 26, 2015, at 18:06:34
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:08:16
That's very interesting, I was much the same way. I experienced severe ocd with compulsions and tics from 5th grade to highschool, after that finally cleared up depression and anxiety set in. I suspect a faulty brain circuit that malfunctions during development is the cause.
Posted by babbler20 on March 26, 2015, at 22:37:09
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by SLS on March 26, 2015, at 1:41:31
Thanks Scott. I wish I had untried options left.
Posted by babbler20 on March 26, 2015, at 22:38:49
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by kendoka on March 26, 2015, at 18:06:34
> That's very interesting, I was much the same way. I experienced severe ocd with compulsions and tics from 5th grade to highschool, after that finally cleared up depression and anxiety set in. I suspect a faulty brain circuit that malfunctions during development is the cause.
I'm wondering if we have a defect in our limbic systems. That would basically explain all cases of treatment-resistant depression
Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 27, 2015, at 2:10:47
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:01:13
Would it help staying in a hostel setting ?
With group interaction
Would that help? Or is isolation betterWould it help if someone was there to manage activities and draw up a schedule
Someone to divide the day into physical sports mental social and work durations
Someone to take you through the steps of activities - to provide trainers
Someone who would see what works and does not
Someone to manage the diet
Someone to manage social activities
Someone to manage group outings
Some place to work like a warehouse packing orders
Have a group psychiatrist visit daily/regularly
Someone to check on emergencies/panic attacks
Someone to provide a mood chart over a time periodAre there places like this
Are they expensive
Do they work
How long would people stayAnyone else have an understanding?
> > I have read these kinds of questions earlier on this forum. I thought I would post a message to this. Have you tried these activities:
> >
> > physical: yoga, martial arts, weight training, aerobics, massage - they all have different effects
> >
> > sports: group sports, white water sports, extreme sports, adventure sports
> >
> > diet: have you tried juicing, smoothies, sprouts, fermented foods - all different effects
> >
> > brain: try these websites lumosity, cognifit, brainHQ, happy neuron
> >
> > mental: try learning a new language, read international literature, try appreciation courses, try introductory courses
> >
> > community: try going to an arts festival, music dance festival, community fair, outdoors hike/trek in the wilderness or sanctuary, fishing/boating/cruise ship activities
> >
> > friends: do you have friends to laugh with, to discuss and analyze and get into details with, to plan and organize and overview and design, to troubleshoot an issue, to debate and argue
> >
> > work: get a job which helps you forget your troubles, earns you money and improves your mood
> >
> > some of this may work - some of it may not - it may work in a combination
>
>
> Hi, thank you for commenting on this. Those are all great suggestions and I have tried all of those things. A few things make me less depressed than I already am, including a few things on your list. However, over time my depression and insomnia has just gotten worse and I just really don't care about anything anymore. Things that I once found mildly entertaining or exciting just don't do it for me anymore. It seems the older I get the more numb and emotionless I become.
>
>
>
Posted by stan_the_man70 on March 27, 2015, at 2:21:56
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 25, 2015, at 23:01:13
PS
When people see others in a group setting and see suffering, it really shifts the focus so people try to break out, rather than feeling helpless/hopeless
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2015, at 11:40:16
In reply to Re: Have you read this article? Scott, posted by Lamdage22 on March 26, 2015, at 15:55:41
> > I failed to respond to more than a dozen drug treatments before I found one that brought me into complete remission. Unfortunately, the doctor opted to discontinue treatment after 9 months, and I subsequently relapsed.
> Scott which one has brought you complete remission and why cant you get back on it?
After the doctor screwed around with Prozac and Parnate monotherapy, going back to Parnate + desipramine never worked again.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2015, at 11:48:17
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 26, 2015, at 22:37:09
> Thanks Scott. I wish I had untried options left.
I'm so sorry that you find yourself in such a position.
I am partially improved on:
Parnate 120 mg/day
nortriptyline 100 mg/day
Lamictal 300 mg/day
lithium 450 mg/day
Abilify 10 mg/day
prazosin 30 mg/dayI am currently gradually titrating memantine (Namenda). I increased to 14 mg/day today.
I recently tried to discontinue prazosin. I relapsed pretty hard.
- Scott
Posted by Chris O on March 27, 2015, at 15:15:34
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
My anxiety disorder and depression with age ... I don't know if they have gotten worse or not. It's hard to say. What is not hard to say is that I have a better understanding of them now than I did when I was five, fifteen, twenty-five or even thirty-five. (I'm forty nine.) I feel like I can "do battle" with them better than I could as a younger man.
Chris
Posted by Chris O on March 27, 2015, at 15:17:25
In reply to Re: Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age? » babbler20, posted by SLS on March 24, 2015, at 10:24:58
"I don't know if this is a function of age rather than a function of the time spent in the ill state."
I will wholeheartedly second that as the main "cause" of it being "worse" for me. It's like, "Enough already!"
Chris
Posted by Zyprexa on April 10, 2015, at 21:37:37
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
GOD IM PISSED NOW. I just lost my whole post. I will try to rewrite it.
I first got depressed when I was 8. When I moved for the first time. I lost contact with all my old friends and self medicated with food. Then I moved again and slowly got less depressed when I made new friends. Then I moved back to the first again and was not realy depressed even though I did not really conect up with old friends. I made lots of new friends and was not realy depressed untill the oil tank blew up. I was not really depressed then just really scared. I started to lose frends then and moved again with out my parents this time and got really depressed. Within a few months to a year I ended up in the mental hospital. They locked me in a room where I would just lie in bed and they gave me ECTs. That in it self is depressing enough. 3 months later I got out and felt so great to be free I stoped taking my meds. Big mistake, I ended up in anouther mental hospital. When I got out this I was more psychotic than anything and did not take ADs untill a few years later, when I found out my friend who had been in a coma for 6 years finaly died. I also quit self medicating with alcohol and pot and got so depressed. Doc put me on a high dose of AD which I've been taking ever since at that dose for 13 years. I'm not really depressed on the ADs, but deep down inside I'm really sad. I've also been taking APs ever since the hospital so that may have been helping too.
Posted by phidippus on April 12, 2015, at 7:37:59
In reply to Has Your Depression Gotten Worse With Age?, posted by babbler20 on March 23, 2015, at 23:27:47
My depression has worsened.
Eric
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
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