![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 71. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
Bi polar anxiety and depression are in my immediate family,so I am not surprised. After intense mood swings and intense obsessive thoughts and anger fits I started counciling and medication. I have tried several mood stabilizers and abilify. All of which made me fall asleep throughout the day. I am currently on triliptal 150 mg twice a day ( as of last week due to a salivating and burning sensation in my mouth) and Effexor 35 mg a day. My obsessive thoughts are less and my anger fits however
I have gained 6 lbs- and in return am very depressed
Crave carbs and sugar all day long
No Lobito
And very lethargic. All I want to do is sleep and be anti- social. By 3 pm I am even braindead and crash.What do I do. I don't want to exercise like I usually do and I don't feel fulfilled or happy. I am in close contact with my Dr. But we have tried so many meds she now needs suggestions..
Do I stop the triliptal. If however I take less that weird and uncomfortable salivating and burning feeling in my tongue might return. Up the Effexor. Or maybe try a different anti depressant?I am so uncomfortable and just numb.
Posted by polarbear206 on May 25, 2013, at 11:53:46
In reply to At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
37.5 mg of effexor isin't going to do much at all. Why the low dose? If depression is dominent, which it appears to be ,you need to increase the effexor. It's an excellent AD.
Posted by polarbear206 on May 25, 2013, at 12:05:50
In reply to At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
Also, dont't stop the mood stabilizer. You will need that to help with mood cycling and is a very important part of your treatment. I take Lamictal and Effexor. My bipolar is depression dominated.....same symptoms as you have.
Posted by Beckett on May 25, 2013, at 17:19:57
In reply to At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
Have you tried lithium?
Posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 18:48:47
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Beckett on May 25, 2013, at 17:19:57
I have not tried lithium. I am sensitive to medicine so my dr has not prescribe it to me. I have tried limictal, geodon, tiger tol and a few others. I think my dr hasn't upped the effexor because fear of more mania. I however took 70 mg today and no mood stabilizer and I had a decent day. Lethargic inthe am then a bit of manic for the rest of the day. I get this weird burning tonge like sensation in my mouth from the Trileptal that I had today, though I did not take any. What do I do tomorrow?
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2013, at 19:26:09
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 18:48:47
I've not heard of this as a side effect of trileptal? But anything is possible. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 26, 2013, at 17:27:07
In reply to At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
> Bi polar anxiety and depression are in my immediate family,so I am not surprised. After intense mood swings and intense obsessive thoughts and anger fits I started counciling and medication. I have tried several mood stabilizers and abilify. All of which made me fall asleep throughout the day. I am currently on triliptal 150 mg twice a day ( as of last week due to a salivating and burning sensation in my mouth) and Effexor 35 mg a day. My obsessive thoughts are less and my anger fits however
> I have gained 6 lbs- and in return am very depressed
> Crave carbs and sugar all day long
> No Lobito
> And very lethargic. All I want to do is sleep and be anti- social. By 3 pm I am even braindead and crash.
>
> What do I do. I don't want to exercise like I usually do and I don't feel fulfilled or happy. I am in close contact with my Dr. But we have tried so many meds she now needs suggestions..
> Do I stop the triliptal. If however I take less that weird and uncomfortable salivating and burning feeling in my tongue might return. Up the Effexor. Or maybe try a different anti depressant?
>
> I am so uncomfortable and just numb.D1981,
You wrote the above.
Now there is a lot in there and your subject line reads {stop meds or switch}. First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants. When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others, even commit mass-murder.
I know a place that has been prepared for you to go to be free from the potential of death from these drugs and you could be led out of the darkness of depression into the Light of Life. I am not permitted to post here the way that has been revealed to me due to prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung, but through dialog together, I think that we could get to that place anyway.
If you do not want to know how you could be unshackled from the bondage of depression and addiction as revealed to me, then reject this opportunity now. But if you do want to be free from being scared of being killed by these drugs, and to be released from the potential of addiction, then accept this opportunity now to have dialog with me here.
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 19:07:20
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 18:48:47
> ...a bit of manic for the rest of the day.
How do know when you are manic? What happens?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 19:57:32
In reply to At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 8:40:22
What do you think would happen if you were to stop taking medication entirely?
Which antipsychotics have you tried so far, and why did you stop taking each them?
From your description of irritability and mania, it seems likely that you will need something to keep the mania in check as you continue to take antidepressants. Although Trileptal is a good mood stabilizer, it usually won't do very much unless you take a minimum of 400 mg/day. If the pain and burning sensations of the tongue limits your ability to titrate Trileptal to a therapeutic dosage, you might need to discontinue it in favor of an antipsychotic that you tolerate well or perhaps look into using other mood stabilizers. It may be that you need to combine an antidepressant, an antipsychotic, an AED (anticonvulsant) mood stabilizer, and lithium. In my experience, Lamictal is not very good at treating mania, but might be a great choice to help make antidepressants work better. If irritable mixed-state hypomania is a constant problem, then don't exclude Topamax from consideration.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 22:39:38
In reply to Lou's response and warning-krozrowdz » Diana1981, posted by Lou Pilder on May 26, 2013, at 17:27:07
> First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants.
1. Effexor is not a CNS depressant. The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction of this drug with CNS depressants.
"It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
2. Although Trileptal is sometimes listed as a CNS depressant, I believe this become a risk only in overdose. I would need to research this more, though.
> When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
3. What are the individual effects of Trileptal and Effexor that when combined yield the sequalae that you claim occur?
4. What citations can you provide that prove these sequalae to be cause and effect? The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction between Effexor and CNS depressants.
"It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
> But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state
5. I imagine that this can happen, but what is the nature of this mind-altered state, and how does it affect mood and behavior? Withdrawal can be very difficult to manage, especially when it produces depression and agitation.
> to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others
6. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate these compulsions, and what are the statistics regarding their rates occurrence?
> even commit mass-murder.
7. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate examples of this phenomenon?
8. If you cannot provide evidence to support your statement, then I would characterize it as being a gross exaggeration. That sort of thing is frowned upon by this website.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
- Scott
Posted by 10derheart on May 26, 2013, at 23:02:25
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 22:39:38
Thank you, Scott. Very helpful.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 22:39:38
> > First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants.
>
> 1. Effexor is not a CNS depressant. The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction of this drug with CNS depressants.
>
> "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
>
> http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
>
> 2. Although Trileptal is sometimes listed as a CNS depressant, I believe this become a risk only in overdose. I would need to research this more, though.
>
> > When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
>
> 3. What are the individual effects of Trileptal and Effexor that when combined yield the sequalae that you claim occur?
>
> 4. What citations can you provide that prove these sequalae to be cause and effect? The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction between Effexor and CNS depressants.
>
> "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
>
> http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
>
> > But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state
>
> 5. I imagine that this can happen, but what is the nature of this mind-altered state, and how does it affect mood and behavior? Withdrawal can be very difficult to manage, especially when it produces depression and agitation.
>
> > to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others
>
> 6. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate these compulsions, and what are the statistics regarding their rates occurrence?
>
> > even commit mass-murder.
>
> 7. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate examples of this phenomenon?
>
> 8. If you cannot provide evidence to support your statement, then I would characterize it as being a gross exaggeration. That sort of thing is frowned upon by this website.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
BE ADVISED THAT WHAT YOU READ HERE COULD MARK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU BEING A LIVE PERSON OR A CORPSE.
Now it is written here by Scott,[...Effexor is not a CNS depressant..].
Here is a site that tells the category of drugs. Notice that Effexor is in the category of a central nervous system depressant. Also is Trileptal. The names as oxcarbazepine and venlafaxine are used in alphabetical order in the following list. But it is much more than that.
You see, the core chemical structures of the drugs show what these drugs are and they are not new drugs but knock-offs of old drugs, chemically altered slightly, and the addiction potential of Effexor is part of all of this here in discussion. My friends, I am prevented by the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung to show you the full facts behind the development of Effexor, and prevented in responding fully to Scott's statements here.
But be it as it may be, let us look at this list.
Lou
http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:47:58
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> > > First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants.
> >
> > 1. Effexor is not a CNS depressant. The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction of this drug with CNS depressants.
> >
> > "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
> >
> > http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
> >
> > 2. Although Trileptal is sometimes listed as a CNS depressant, I believe this become a risk only in overdose. I would need to research this more, though.
> >
> > > When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
> >
> > 3. What are the individual effects of Trileptal and Effexor that when combined yield the sequalae that you claim occur?
> >
> > 4. What citations can you provide that prove these sequalae to be cause and effect? The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction between Effexor and CNS depressants.
> >
> > "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
> >
> > http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
> >
> > > But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state
> >
> > 5. I imagine that this can happen, but what is the nature of this mind-altered state, and how does it affect mood and behavior? Withdrawal can be very difficult to manage, especially when it produces depression and agitation.
> >
> > > to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others
> >
> > 6. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate these compulsions, and what are the statistics regarding their rates occurrence?
> >
> > > even commit mass-murder.
> >
> > 7. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate examples of this phenomenon?
> >
> > 8. If you cannot provide evidence to support your statement, then I would characterize it as being a gross exaggeration. That sort of thing is frowned upon by this website.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> BE ADVISED THAT WHAT YOU READ HERE COULD MARK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU BEING A LIVE PERSON OR A CORPSE.
> Now it is written here by Scott,[...Effexor is not a CNS depressant..].
> Here is a site that tells the category of drugs. Notice that Effexor is in the category of a central nervous system depressant. Also is Trileptal. The names as oxcarbazepine and venlafaxine are used in alphabetical order in the following list. But it is much more than that.
> You see, the core chemical structures of the drugs show what these drugs are and they are not new drugs but knock-offs of old drugs, chemically altered slightly, and the addiction potential of Effexor is part of all of this here in discussion. My friends, I am prevented by the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung to show you the full facts behind the development of Effexor, and prevented in responding fully to Scott's statements here.
> But be it as it may be, let us look at this list.
> Lou
> http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdfFriends,
Just what are the chemicals in these drugs? Where do they come from? Who devised such concoctions? What do they do to your brain and organs? How can one taking these drugs escape the horrific consequences of withdrawal from Effexor? What would happen to the ones taking Effexor for the rest of their lives?
My friends, I have written a little here about Benzene. And chemists have devised a way to connect two benzene rings with another chemical and get what is known as a {dibenzo}. Now the benzene does not change to apple butter in this combination of chemicals.
Now you can get phenyl and phenol from benzene, chemically that is. And reacting benzene with hydrogen, gives cyclohexene. These are chemicals in the core structure of many of these drugs that come from diesel fuel or coal tar. These chemicals are psychoactive and children sniff vapors from these chemicals to have a mind-altered state induced in them by the vapors from the chemicals such as toluene which is a derivative of benzene. The dangers to the nervous system are well-known and go back to Germany before 1933.
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:10:49
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
Nice try.
I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
Any other citations?
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 6:11:33
In reply to Lou's warning and reply-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:47:58
>I have written a little here about Benzene
Benzene itself is toxic. This is of no relevance to molecules containing benzene rings, however. Many vital biological molecules contain benzene rings. Examples include vitamin E and vitamin K. The natural proteins of the body have a vast number of benzene rings on amino acids such as phenylalanine. This does not make them toxic.
I think it's best not to try and teach chemistry unless you understand it.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:40:23
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> >I have written a little here about Benzene
And I have written here more than just a little to demonstrate that this repetitious claim of yours is factually wrong and comprised of disinformation. Thankfully, there are people here with appropriate degrees in biology and pharmacology that are able to teach people the facts regarding the differences between molecular benzene and the incorporation of benzene ring structures into the essential molecules of life.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130222/msgs/1039645.html
I don't see how you can claim expertise in organic chemistry and still post things that are factually wrong. If you are an expert, then you would necessarily be posting things that you know to be untrue. This is uncivil according to the posting guidelines found in the FAQ of this website.
The following passage posted along this thread is factually correct.
> Benzene itself is toxic. This is of no relevance to molecules containing benzene rings, however. Many vital biological molecules contain benzene rings. Examples include vitamin E and vitamin K. The natural proteins of the body have a vast number of benzene rings on amino acids such as phenylalanine. This does not make them toxic.
>
> I think it's best not to try and teach chemistry unless you understand it.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 6:51:50
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:10:49
> > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
>
> Nice try.
>
> I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
>
> Any other citations?
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
So those of you that are trying to make a more informed decision as to drug your child or yourself with these drugs, take heed that you get all the facts, facts that could mark the difference between being a live person or a corpse. The chart in the link is from Washington, not Los Angeles. And anyway, you can go to Drugs.com and use their interaction checker to see for yourselves how they list the two drugs. They have two features of the interaction checker and use the "professional" feature.
Lou
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
In reply to Lou's reply-20yerz » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 6:51:50
> > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> >
> > Nice try.
> >
> > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> >
> > Any other citations?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 7:07:25
In reply to Re: Lou's warning and reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 6:11:33
Hi Ed.
If you notice, I try to make a habit of resetting the posting subject line to reflect the theme of the thread whenever it is deleted and replaced by only the name of the respondent. I hope that doing this helps to prevent the chronic hijacking of threads and maintain the integrity of the forum. Otherwise, the board really looks ugly and unappealing when half of the posts contain only the name of the same one poster.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 7:18:55
In reply to The chart is dated 2009 » Lou Pilder, posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
> > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s...> > Friends,
> > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.Nice try.
I believe I used the word "established" - not "written".
This sort of change in an authors's verbiage becomes disinformation when it is used to fit an agenda.
> > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.Thanks, Emme, for making this fact clearly visible.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
In reply to The chart is dated 2009 » Lou Pilder, posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
> > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > >
> > > Nice try.
> > >
> > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > >
> > > Any other citations?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Friends,
> > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
>
> The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
>
>Emmme_V2,
The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
Lou
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 8:40:31
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
> > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Nice try.
> > > >
> > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > >
> > > > Any other citations?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> >
> > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> >
> >
>
> Emmme_V2,
> The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> Lou
Lou -The purpose of my post was to note the correct date of the chart. I do not have the time to pursue the full history of the chart.
I believe the weaknesses the arguments in the rest of your post to me have been adequately addressed by other posters. Therefore, I will have no further discourse with you on this.
I have restored the subject line to the subject line in my original post.
Have a nice day.
emme
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:47:21
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
> > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Nice try.
> > > >
> > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > >
> > > > Any other citations?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> >
> > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> >
> >
>
> Emmme_V2,
> The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> LouFriends,
The taking of a combination od CNS depressants can be deadly. The two drugs in question are Trileptal and Effexor taken together.
Now the chart offered by me here states that it was issued in 2009. There is posted here that {issued} could mean an update from a previous version. So what? Even if it is an update from some version, which version and from who? Does it matter? Well, if it an update from a Los Angeles version from the 1970s, then so what? I do not think that the LA police are bozos and do not know the difference between an CNS depressant and stimulant or something else.
So let it be with the chart. The overriding aspect here is to warn you that the drugs in question are indeed CNS depressants. I base this on the chart that I cited as accurate, and I have seen nothing to refute its accuracy except a claim that the LA police produced the original document in the 70s, and I say, so what?
Here is a link from drugs.com showing the interactions between Trileptal and Effexor.
Parents, do you want to take the risk of having your child or yourself drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist with these mind-altering drugs that show that when taken together they are CNS depressants and could kill your child or yourself?
Lou
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-checker.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 8:50:56
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:56:25
In reply to Lou's reply-drugs.com, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:47:21
> > > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice try.
> > > > >
> > > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any other citations?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> > >
> > > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Emmme_V2,
> > The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> > If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> > Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> > But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> The taking of a combination od CNS depressants can be deadly. The two drugs in question are Trileptal and Effexor taken together.
> Now the chart offered by me here states that it was issued in 2009. There is posted here that {issued} could mean an update from a previous version. So what? Even if it is an update from some version, which version and from who? Does it matter? Well, if it an update from a Los Angeles version from the 1970s, then so what? I do not think that the LA police are bozos and do not know the difference between an CNS depressant and stimulant or something else.
> So let it be with the chart. The overriding aspect here is to warn you that the drugs in question are indeed CNS depressants. I base this on the chart that I cited as accurate, and I have seen nothing to refute its accuracy except a claim that the LA police produced the original document in the 70s, and I say, so what?
> Here is a link from drugs.com showing the interactions between Trileptal and Effexor.
> Parents, do you want to take the risk of having your child or yourself drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist with these mind-altering drugs that show that when taken together they are CNS depressants and could kill your child or yourself?
> Lou
> http://www.drugs.com/interactions-checker.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129correction:
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129
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