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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 43. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
Hello my fellow babblers....I am hoping everyone is doing at least a little better.
I know I should probably post this on a different forum, but they seem to have so little activity I'm gonna go ahead and ask my question here.
Why is it that loved ones not only don't understand the incredible pain of depression but also get tired of hearing about it? My Stepmother has always been one of my biggest supporters, but I just got off the phone with her and it sounded like she just doesn't give a damn about it anymore. She also didn't seem to care that I almost died when I had Rhabdomyolysis. My heart is broken. I need support now more than I ever have.
I guess I just need to be thankful that there are all of you who understand, and that I have friends who suffer from mental illness too and who understand. I think I need to rely solely on people who actually have mental illness for support. It's so sad to me though that my support system is falling apart.
My God, I hate this disease. It just gets harder and harder to hang on.
Thanks for 'listening'
Devastated Kat
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 12:07:34
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
I called my only family member my brother one day and I was manic he said well wtf do you want me to do about it you're the genius on this sh*t. I hung up on him.
I emailed him early this morning said I hadn't slept a wink...no response.
I tried to never bring it up to anybody again because they don't care because they don't get it or even try.
I'm cutting him off. He can f*** himself, I've heard enough.
Support groups are the only people to go to. It's a crying shame.
Two years later you blow your brains out(not really!)and they would say how selfish I was always there for him/her.
It's not the disease, it's the stigma and I've written on my blog many times about it.
Posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 12:12:59
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
People do fail to be adequately empathic - a lot. But don't you think it is almost always because they are pre-occupied with losses, stresses, painful situations of their own? Or your stepmother may have felt overwhelmed by the terrible thing that happened to you, and just wasn't able to be responsive.
It certainly hurts to seek support and understanding, and not get it. But I think the cause is almost always emotional pre-occupations or limitations in the other person, rather than a true lack of warmth or caring. The one thing it NEVER means is that you are not worth caring about, even though it can feel like it.
That is probably the best thing about Babble - that there is genuine caring and understanding here. I would personally like to see it monitored in such a way that occasional very harmful remarks, such as the one that just happened to you, would be better controlled. Not excessive monitoring over tiny things, as we had before, but just basic common- sense monitoring over the important things. I do wish Dr. Bob would consider this.
Posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 12:39:51
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
I've learned to only talk about my depression with fellow depressives. People who haven't suffered from depression just don't get it. They're the type who say, "Everyone gets depressed now and then." They equate ordinary sadness with depression. When I've been deeply depressed, one of my sisters deals with it by either acting like a happy clown around me, or by attacking me -- "Do you have to look that way! Can't you try to cheer up!" The best thing she could do is just leave me alone.
Kat, I read in another post that you just had your gallbladder removed. I've heard that people without gallbladders should take bile salts, and I've heard that most doctors don't know this. Here's some advice from Dr. Mercola:
The gallbladder serves an important digestive function. It is required to emulsify fats. What is emulsification? One can easily understand this concept when washing greasy dishes. It is nearly impossible to properly clean greasy dishes without soap, as the soap emulsifies the fat so it can be removed. Similarly, the gallbladder stores bile and bile acids, which emulsify the fat one eats so it can be properly transported through the intestine into the bloodstream. Anyone who has had their gallbladder removed will need to take some form of bile salts with every meal for the rest of their life (I use and recommend Beta Plus from Biotics Research), if they wish to prevent a good percentage of the good fats they eat from being flushed down the toilet. If one does not have enough fats in the diet, their entire physiology will be disrupted,
especially the ability to make hormones and prostaglandins.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 13:20:37
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 12:12:59
That is no excuse! These are lethal diseases and people don't want to hear about it. I feel bad for Kat and I know the road very well. There is no excuse.
I've tried very hard never to say the word bipolar again to anybody because it's futile. I'm really angry.
If I had cancer with a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of dying people would do anything to help. Guess what that's my odds with bipolar and no one cares. I can only take so much and I would like to give Kat a hug and we could go get plastered. Well, if I drank, anyway. lol
Posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 14:10:22
In reply to Re: Why? » Twinleaf, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 13:20:37
I am in full agreement with you that it's no excuse. I brought it up because depressed people so often blame themselves for not being worthy enough to receive understanding and support when it has little or nothing to do with them. At these times, the depressed person is-acting human and normal, but the people who ignore and reject them are not.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 14:11:58
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
A friend is someone who knows all about you and still loves you.
― Elbert Hubbard
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:29:23
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 12:07:34
> I called my only family member my brother one day and I was manic he said well wtf do you want me to do about it you're the genius on this sh*t. I hung up on him.
> I emailed him early this morning said I hadn't slept a wink...no response.
> I tried to never bring it up to anybody again because they don't care because they don't get it or even try.
> I'm cutting him off. He can f*** himself, I've heard enough.
> Support groups are the only people to go to. It's a crying shame.
> Two years later you blow your brains out(not really!)and they would say how selfish I was always there for him/her.
> It's not the disease, it's the stigma and I've written on my blog many times about it.Wow Phil, your brother sounds like a complete jerk. I don't blame you for cutting him off. That's what I'm gonna do with my Stepmom. I mean if she calls I'll try to fake it and talk about b*llsh*t, but I certainly am not going to rely on her for support ever again. What you said about other people not getting it is SOOOO f*ck*ng true. From now on all you great people here at Babble are going to be the only ones I rely on. Because you all do get it. Yep it's the stigma, and it really pisses me off that even the people that love you have the gall to say 'just snap out of it' or 'you are overreacting' or 'just stay busy'. ARRRRGGGGHHH it makes me SO frustrated and angry, and I don't need that on top of dealing with the demon!!!!!!!
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:37:09
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 12:12:59
Dear Twinleaf,
I do believe you may be right about the problem being on the other person's end, that they have issues of their own and can't be sympathetic at the time. Or that they are overwhelmed. But my Stepmom has been acting like this more and more recently, and I truly believe she is just sick of hearing about it. Meanwhile, you can be sure I'm sick to death of living with it.
I think what really hurt was that she did not care about how very sick I was a couple of weeks ago, and the fact that I could have died. She made it very clear that she thought it was my fault when it absolutely was not. THAT hurt BIG time.
And I absolutely do not believe that the previous email I received was harmful in any way. It make me feel less alone with this problem. I firmly believe, as was said, that others who do not suffer from mental illness absolutely DO NOT GET IT. But if you have a loved one, it seems to me that they should care about and believe that you are seriously suffering if you tell them you are. I agree: there is still a huge stigma about it.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:43:44
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 12:39:51
> I've learned to only talk about my depression with fellow depressives. People who haven't suffered from depression just don't get it. They're the type who say, "Everyone gets depressed now and then." They equate ordinary sadness with depression. When I've been deeply depressed, one of my sisters deals with it by either acting like a happy clown around me, or by attacking me -- "Do you have to look that way! Can't you try to cheer up!" The best thing she could do is just leave me alone.
Thanks for the post Hugh. And I'm not surprised, but there are the words again, that people who are not depressed just don't get it. I am quickly learning as well Hugh, to only talk about my suffering with other depressives. But it seems it is a hard lesson to learn.
Regarding my gallbladder, I have to have it removed but I have not done so yet. I have too many other issues going on to take the time to do that yet. And the surgeon was perfectly willing for me to wait. For now, I am simply avoiding fat as much as possible to avoid another bout of biliary colic. And thanks for sharing that info about bile salts. Tell me, do you need a prescription for bile salts, or can you get them over the counter? Thanks again Hugh, and take care.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:48:20
In reply to Re: Why? » Twinleaf, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 13:20:37
> That is no excuse! These are lethal diseases and people don't want to hear about it. I feel bad for Kat and I know the road very well. There is no excuse.
> I've tried very hard never to say the word bipolar again to anybody because it's futile. I'm really angry.
> If I had cancer with a 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 chance of dying people would do anything to help. Guess what that's my odds with bipolar and no one cares. I can only take so much and I would like to give Kat a hug and we could go get plastered. Well, if I drank, anyway. lolawwwww thanks for the virtual hug Phil, and hell, I'd love to go get plastered with you - that is if I drank lol Funny we both don't drink. Weird thing is, I used to be a social drinker, but ect gave me a revulsion for alcohol. Weird huh??? And that is the only positive thing ect did for me, otherwise, it worsened my depression and made my meds stop working. Yuck, I hate even thinking about the experience.
Kat
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:50:25
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 14:10:22
> I am in full agreement with you that it's no excuse. I brought it up because depressed people so often blame themselves for not being worthy enough to receive understanding and support when it has little or nothing to do with them. At these times, the depressed person is-acting human and normal, but the people who ignore and reject them are not.
Now that I completely agree with Twinleaf...thank you for your post! Hope you are well.
Kat
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 14:52:44
In reply to Re: Why? » Phil, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:48:20
I was a social drinker too. But I drank a 12 pack on the way to the party. Couple of blunts etc.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:52:56
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 14:11:58
> Knowing others is intelligence; knowing yourself is true wisdom. Mastering others is strength; mastering yourself is true power. If you realize that you have enough, you are truly rich.
> ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
>
>
> A friend is someone who knows all about you and still loves you.
> ― Elbert HubbardThose are great quotes Phil; thanks for sharing them. I doubt I'll ever achieve true power b/c I know with this damn disease that I'll never be able to master myself.
I love the second quote. It is sooooo very true.
Kat
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:55:47
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
I agree with Twinleaf.
An explanation is not an excuse. Understanding is not condonation.
There is no real blame here. Some people just can't cope with others having a chronic mental illness. It can be fatiguing, frustrating, and emotionally upsetting for them. It can be frightening, too. It gets old for us to be ill for so long. It gets old for them, too. Of course, they have the luxury of being able to separate themselves from the pain and suffering of the illness. We don't. It is sad that the people who love you should want to separate themselves from you.
There is something about "depression" and "anxiety" that seems familiar and normal to others who don't suffer from mental illness. This is because they have had experiences in life for which these same two words are attached. They wonder why you can't cope with these things while they can. Of course, you are not being asked to cope with those things. You are challenged by human conditions that are very much different and indeed foreign to those around you. These conditions are far worse in intensity and duration, and are unrelenting. Your first step might be to realize this and to give yourself the respect and admiration you deserve for surviving. You must tell yourself that you are actually very strong in the absence of affirmations by others. Your dignity and self-esteem depend on this.
You are doing a great job.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 16:34:26
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:55:47
Thanks Scott. I needed to hear all that very badly. I guess I was looking for affirmation in all the wrong places. You telling me that I am strong was exactly what I needed to hear. Because I do believe I'm strong, I'd have to be to make it through all the challenges I've faced of late. I need to boost my self esteem somehow so I can tell myself these things and not try to depend on others so much.
And I'd like to tell you that, not only are you brilliant when it comes to meds, you are incredibly kind and compassionate. :)
How are you doing these days?
Kat
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 17:04:54
In reply to Re: Why? » SLS, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 16:34:26
> And I'd like to tell you that, not only are you brilliant when it comes to meds, you are incredibly kind and compassionate. :)
Would you believe that I'm blushing right now?
> How are you doing these days?
Better.
Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2013, at 17:21:39
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
Kat sorry for being late to this thread just home. But others don't seem to care. And you are right that only those who have walked in your shoes will understand completely. Know this from experience. Even Medical personel don't except those that also have traveled the same road. And many of the psych both docs and RN's have and are fighting their own battles. Phillipa
Posted by Twinleaf on January 6, 2013, at 18:20:57
In reply to Re: Why? » Twinleaf, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:50:25
Thank you for asking, Kat. I have been doing much better with maintenance rTMS, tianeptine, and therapy for trauma-related anxiety and depression. I had a nosedive over Christmas, but am feeling a lot better now- after several TMS treatments. Because I have complex PTSD illness, therapy has been at the center of my feeling better the last three years, but I am talking to my doctors about Prazosin, mainly because of Scott's positive experience, and encouraging research articles I have read.
I'm so glad you recovered from the rhabdomyolysis- so scary! And on top of that you got the flu and have an ailing gallbladder! No doubt, you have a wonderful, strong constitution! I do hope you can find good treatment. I found that genetic testing helped me know that I needed dopamine- boosting drugs, and should avoid all SSRIs because i metabolized them so slowly - this helped everyone to focus on more helpful treatments.
Posted by baseball55 on January 6, 2013, at 19:01:59
In reply to Why?, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 11:47:23
My husband got so frustrated with my depression, which lasted on and off for three years, that he once said he wished I'd kill myself. We talk about it now. It's incredibly hard on loved ones. You are not the same person. People feel abandoned and overwhelmed and, if they've never suffered depression or never seen really severe depression, tend to blame you for not pulling it together, snapping out of it.
I had a close friend who went through a bout of severe depression and we would talk about it, because she knew I knew how it felt. And yet, even I found myself fighting an urge to tell her to exercise more, get out of the house, do this, do that. I felt completely abandoned. Suddenly we had no friendship anymore. We just had this misery and turning away to cope with. That's how I felt (though I didn't tell her this) and I had suffered from severe depression of pretty long duration.
So imagine how it feels to someone who never experienced this and never witnessed someone else experiencing this. A person you had a relationship with is suddenly gone emotionally. To my husband, it was like I no longer cared about him or my daughter, that I was completely self-absorbed.
Posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
In reply to Re: Why? » Hugh, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 14:43:44
>Tell me, do you need a prescription for bile salts, or can you get them over the counter? Thanks again Hugh, and take care.
> KatYou can buy them at health food stores or online.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 20:01:39
In reply to Re: Why?, posted by baseball55 on January 6, 2013, at 19:01:59
I have a friend whose wife developed schizophrenia shortly after they were married. He divorced her a few months ago after 41 years of marriage. Right or wrong, he gave a big part of his life and at 62 is bitter. Frankly I couldn't have done it because it was a chronic situation. Actually I never got married to avoid several potential traps, like the alcoholism I was around from 5 years old. I told myself in my early teens that there was no way I'd put myself in that position again. Just how I am.
No regrets coyote.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 6, 2013, at 20:27:00
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
Sorry to hear this Kat, I guess your mother in law isnt perfect, maybe she was having a bad day?
I have no experience of this realy, because I have always kept my illness to my self, about the most i will say when someone asks is "oh, up and down, you know" or somthing like that, I dont like people to know I'm ill, and even with those who know, i dont like to dwell on it.
Maybe say somthing to her like "I know that I've been sick a lot over the years, and I've always been greatful that you've been there with kindness and understanding", let her know that you appreciate it when she is kind, and also maybe give her a subtle nudge that she wasnt so kind recently.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on January 6, 2013, at 22:01:31
In reply to Re: Why? » baseball55, posted by Phil on January 6, 2013, at 20:01:39
That's a pretty tragic story about your friend, Phil. I don't know how I'd handle that.
I've seen a lot of the chaos and damage alcohol causes, from a very young age.
Just wanted to say that.
Posted by alchemy on January 6, 2013, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re: Why? » ChicagoKat, posted by Hugh on January 6, 2013, at 19:11:36
For some, that may seem extreme and unfair statement. My mom says she remembers me saying that I wish I had cancer instead. She has also heard another friend say it.
I am in no way discounting how bad cancer can be. I took care of my dad while he died of cancer. I wish I could have taken it from him, to relieve both of our sufferings. I was actually the one in the family that spent the most time nursing him because I understood pain. I had a harder time seeing him in pain than when he died.
How sad is it that at a cancer walk there are hundreds that show up, and at the NAMI walk I went to there were less than 100 probably. And even more so - that I was actually a little embarrassed to be there!
I am still learning my limits on reaching for friends and family for someone to at least listen. Their withdrawal or annoyance only makes it worse. But I get so desperate for someone to even talk to. The words "help me" are in my head, even though I know they can't.
Yet if I had cancer, or some other acceptable disease, the empathy would be pouring in and I would be heroic.
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