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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rainy on November 8, 2004, at 18:54:49
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:( » headachequeen, posted by iris2 on November 8, 2004, at 12:37:50
With an eating disorder, to misquote Bruno Bettleheim, being loved is not enough. It's irrational and I would rather endure all the tricks that Topamax has to play than go back to its hell. I'm afraid I'm going to have to convince my pdoc of this tomorrow, which is part of the reason I'm feeling apprehensive about my appointment.
The other part is this. A few weeks ago I called her office to check on something and her office administrator immediately began to scold me vigorously for altering my perscriptions. !!?? I send them away to an online drug company and one of the phamacists had called the office to say that the number of refills had been changed. For what seemed like forever I was yelled at for something the doctor had done. She'd changed the scripts for more refills because of the time involved in getting them, while I was in the office.
The conversation, if you can call it that, finally terminated with my verbally expressed understanding that it is a no-no to alter prescriptions. I was distressed because for a minute I thought, well, did I or not? Of course not!
I get freaked out when scolded by someone 20 years my junior who doesn't stop for breath and who makes rather serious accusations.
I dithered and fussed and finally talked with our daughter who works as a paralegal in a medical malpractice office. She suggested that I talk with the doc and ask that a note be made in the chart exonerating me from the charges and a written statement of the same be given to me at my next visit, just in case the feds come looking for me or something. So I did.
Well, tomorrow is the next visit and I feel very awkward. Also this is the pdoc who told my therapist, who mentioned to me, that I intimidate her--the doctor, which I feel uncomfortable about. Errrggg.
I'd like to avoid what Bridgey described with such purity--the "bluntness" of foot in mouth disease, but there are no guarantees of anything.
Any advice? And please, your good wishes.
I'd rather have a spinal tap.
rainy
Posted by iris2 on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:38
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:(, posted by headachequeen on November 8, 2004, at 15:59:27
I know ther is no such thing as "normal" which is why I put it in quotes. Unfortunately I have no doctor to talk about this stuff with. I am basically being mly own practitioner and my pdoc just writes the scripts I ask him to. It is not a good situaltion but I have not ben aable to find a doctor that would or could treat me.
irene
Posted by iris2 on November 8, 2004, at 19:53:07
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:(, posted by headachequeen on November 8, 2004, at 15:59:27
BTW I am feeling rather self obsorbed. How are you faring now? That had to be he** to go through. You are sounding more like yourself today:)
irene
Posted by headachequeen on November 8, 2004, at 19:59:23
In reply to Big Stomachs and fat heads :(, posted by bridgey1128 on November 8, 2004, at 15:31:28
> Actually that is why I refused to take anything that would make me gain weight. I wouldn't BE happy fat. So it would be pointless for me to take a med that would cause a trigger. My weight has always been a depression trigger for me
Bridgey, recognising the triggers is so important... and you have them identified...
I learned so much when I was seeing the psychiatrist and the psycholdogist and the time I was in the hospital with the supposed breakdown that I now know was part of this epilepsy...
now it is of no help to me LOL
and the diagnosis of hypomania was totally off the mark too...
I begin to feel as if I don't belong here and may have to move and join the techno-weenies on the epilepsy boards...sigh
my so-called hypomania is another confused diagnosis -- I am not hypomanic at all. This is another manifestation of the weird type of epilepsy apparently. The psychiatrist could not figure out what was going on, so tagged me with a name he could understand.
I walk too fast and do everything imagineable too fast... I have to be told to slow down and various doctors thought it was a sign of depression;
I cannot sit still, instead I am forever tapping a foot or swinging a foot when my legs are crossed, or 'twiddling my thumbs', or some such thing, things that are inappropriate behaviours as they say...other manifestations...
and on it goes.
So many of the symptoms that were attached to other things are actually epileptic manifestations for lack of a better word. As my orthopaedist said today, 'looking back, it makes sense'.But I have learned that recocgnising those things that trigger your depressions or mood swings and acting upon them is vital. You obviously have that under control.
As for bruises and avoiding public reaction --
I had to go back to my GP's office today for a flu shot...
that meant a sleeveless shell so that no tight sleeves to make the site bruise... now that is a laugh as my arms and shoulders are so badly bruised it is wild to see...
I am in the habit since I came home of wearing long long sleeves and high collars and dark glasses... Greta Garbo and I are in competition.
I had to take off my jacket so the nurse could check BP and give me the shot, and anyone passing by the open door did a double take, believe me...
black and blue takes on a new meaning....at the orthopaedist's I was complaining about the gurneys in the ambulance and emergency at the two hospitals and he explained it was I who did the damage to myself... the thrashing around...
so I had to accept blame...
then told me that the bruising on my shoulders and arms was nothing compared with that on my back...
well I didn't want to know about it...but I had my first accupuncture treatment...
and it was nothing as I supposed...
he did sacrocranial massage for my head and neck and put my spine and so on into place, then did accupuncture for that pain in my eye area...
and NO PAIN....now I wonder if they can treat epilepsy with accupuncture...
and is there a treatment for weight????
it is amazing stuff and if I can quit eating with a few painless needles, here I go....kat who is obsessed with self-image and confesses it...
Posted by headachequeen on November 8, 2004, at 20:02:35
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:(, posted by rainy on November 8, 2004, at 18:54:49
You forgot to insist that the secretary apologise...
this person is totally and unacceptably rude...
and assuming...
when did you get a chance to respond to her accusations? you didn't.
If this is the calibre of person the doctor hires, she needs a few lessons in manners...and maybe this should be the first one...
the whole issue is disgusting....
and I am so sorry it happened to you of all people
kat
> With an eating disorder, to misquote Bruno Bettleheim, being loved is not enough. It's irrational and I would rather endure all the tricks that Topamax has to play than go back to its hell. I'm afraid I'm going to have to convince my pdoc of this tomorrow, which is part of the reason I'm feeling apprehensive about my appointment.
> The other part is this. A few weeks ago I called her office to check on something and her office administrator immediately began to scold me vigorously for altering my perscriptions. !!?? I send them away to an online drug company and one of the phamacists had called the office to say that the number of refills had been changed. For what seemed like forever I was yelled at for something the doctor had done. She'd changed the scripts for more refills because of the time involved in getting them, while I was in the office.
> The conversation, if you can call it that, finally terminated with my verbally expressed understanding that it is a no-no to alter prescriptions. I was distressed because for a minute I thought, well, did I or not? Of course not!
> I get freaked out when scolded by someone 20 years my junior who doesn't stop for breath and who makes rather serious accusations.
> I dithered and fussed and finally talked with our daughter who works as a paralegal in a medical malpractice office. She suggested that I talk with the doc and ask that a note be made in the chart exonerating me from the charges and a written statement of the same be given to me at my next visit, just in case the feds come looking for me or something. So I did.
> Well, tomorrow is the next visit and I feel very awkward. Also this is the pdoc who told my therapist, who mentioned to me, that I intimidate her--the doctor, which I feel uncomfortable about. Errrggg.
> I'd like to avoid what Bridgey described with such purity--the "bluntness" of foot in mouth disease, but there are no guarantees of anything.
> Any advice? And please, your good wishes.
> I'd rather have a spinal tap.
> rainy
>
Posted by headachequeen on November 8, 2004, at 20:06:52
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:(, posted by iris2 on November 8, 2004, at 19:53:07
> BTW I am feeling rather self obsorbed. How are you faring now? That had to be he** to go through. You are sounding more like yourself today:)
>
> ireneIrene, I am feeling much better thank you...
had a slight scare earlier today... that foggy feeling but this evening I feel fine...
and having read your posts and now rainy's latest, I am back to total me...
the angry want to take on the world and straighten it out me, that is...there has to be an answer for you and I want you to know that we who care for you here are going to be here for you as you find it...
and rainy is going to demand that apology because we are going to stand here and demand that she do so...
I am so angry that fears are forgotten... pah!
besides I learned so much more today that I have no time for them...I also have found that some of you are the most incredibly special people...
people about whom I care so much that it is important that you do well and thrive....kat
Posted by merry on November 8, 2004, at 20:59:00
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:(, posted by rainy on November 8, 2004, at 18:54:49
Rainy, That woman was wrong and she owes you an apology. Your pdoc also has a problem that must be frustrating you and all this just adds to how you must be feeling. Try not to get all stressed out before you go to your appointment.
I know it would be easy to just go in there and just let her have it! That's what I would of done on the phone because I don't like to be unfairly accused. I have a Latin temper. But lately I've been very calm, so I don't how I would of responded now.Anyway, everything will be straighted out. And she will be made aware of her mistake and her face will be scarlet-red and her palms will sweat as she says how sorry she is for been such a stupid little meannie-head to you.
And as for you pdoc, I hope she also apologizes to you. She should learn from this and she should reprimand the receptionist and next time she makes any kind of these types of med. changes in the future she will handle it differently.
Sorry this happened to you.
merry
Posted by lorilu on November 8, 2004, at 23:22:58
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by bridgey1128 on November 8, 2004, at 9:13:40
Lar- Thanks.
As for the questions as why do I take Topamax and why am I PLANNING to take Adderal (haven't been to the pharmacy yet), I'll try my best to explain. I took a SPECT Scan on my brain last year to determine if I was taking the right meds for anxiety/PTSD/OCD/depression...whatever... (I do not have the tests in front of me because I would obssess over them so I gave my copy back to my pdoc)but to the best of my knowledge the basal gangalia and anterior cingulate had extreme increased activity. My scan had a lot of red on it and that was not good. Topamax calms my brain down. Based on the other findings (temporal lobe I think) the doctor recommended Adderal to help with my symptoms of low motivation and internal preoccupation. Like, for example, the house is still a mess, and I am finally motivated enough to start cleaning it and I am wide awake at night even though I didn't take Provigil today. My body has kicked into stress mode. It now knows the party is tomorrow and theres no way with work tomorrow that I can get ready for the party without staying up really late and running around with my head cut off. See ya after tomorrow night. :) Unless I can't resist.
Lori
Posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 5:12:12
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by lorilu on November 8, 2004, at 23:22:58
Talk about self-preoccupied--that's my middle name! Thanks for your support--as always, it helps.
I'm past anger, yours is refreshing, Kat and I cherish it, and the doctor did apologize on the phone in a tiny little voice. It was obvious that the office manager hadn't told her the entire story (I wonder how she approached the real culprit in this crime.)
The OM is about as mouthy as I am, I guess more so, Merry, and I think I'm scared to demand an apology, especially when I'm feeling "accused" of being intimidating. Jeeze.
Maybe take two provigil and a klonopin--I've been awake since 3 thinking about today. (I won't, Kat, I won't--joke). I'm hoping she won't be there. Now is that wuss-like or what? But you're right, she, the scolder, does owe me one. At this moment, I just want it to be 10:45 and over. By the way, welcome back!
Lori, when you were explaining about taking Topamax, you mentioned something about another med easing your self-something. I obviously can't remember what it was but rumination is a word that popped into my head. Is that what you're talking about?
What kind of side effects does this med have for you? We have different lables to carry and you have a scan to prove your diagnosis, but our symtoms sound so similar. (Just clean the baseboards and the bathroom/kitchen.)
And Kat. As a happy child of about 8 or 9 I used to hear symphonies in my head as I was falling asleep and the hypnopompic imagery I enjoyed was wonderful. Psychotic? Epileptic?
Med student hypochondria here?
I will be sorry to lose you from this board. I'm glad you're feeling better.
rainy
Posted by lorilu on November 9, 2004, at 8:39:08
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 5:12:12
> Talk about self-preoccupied--that's my middle name! Thanks for your support--as always, it helps.
> I'm past anger, yours is refreshing, Kat and I cherish it, and the doctor did apologize on the phone in a tiny little voice. It was obvious that the office manager hadn't told her the entire story (I wonder how she approached the real culprit in this crime.)
>
> The OM is about as mouthy as I am, I guess more so, Merry, and I think I'm scared to demand an apology, especially when I'm feeling "accused" of being intimidating. Jeeze.
> Maybe take two provigil and a klonopin--I've been awake since 3 thinking about today. (I won't, Kat, I won't--joke). I'm hoping she won't be there. Now is that wuss-like or what? But you're right, she, the scolder, does owe me one. At this moment, I just want it to be 10:45 and over. By the way, welcome back!
>
> Lori, when you were explaining about taking Topamax, you mentioned something about another med easing your self-something. I obviously can't remember what it was but rumination is a word that popped into my head. Is that what you're talking about?
> What kind of side effects does this med have for you? We have different lables to carry and you have a scan to prove your diagnosis, but our symtoms sound so similar. (Just clean the baseboards and the bathroom/kitchen.)
>
> And Kat. As a happy child of about 8 or 9 I used to hear symphonies in my head as I was falling asleep and the hypnopompic imagery I enjoyed was wonderful. Psychotic? Epileptic?
> Med student hypochondria here?
> I will be sorry to lose you from this board. I'm glad you're feeling better.
> rainyGotta write fast :) Got the kitchen done and most of the house but have to get the kids off to school and couldn't resist taking a peek. Luckily I had to print something for school. I take 125 mg. with the 400 mg of Effexor to ease the constant worrying. The meds didn't work yesterday. If I would have just cleaned my house yesterday I wouldn't have been so grumpy, but instead I stay up to 2 and now I am still stressed because I have to buy the food, decorate... I am hoping the Adderal will focus me more. If I ever fill it. I loook forward to getting you and kats posts, too.
Lori
Posted by lorilu on November 9, 2004, at 8:40:58
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by lorilu on November 9, 2004, at 8:39:08
> > Talk about self-preoccupied--that's my middle name! Thanks for your support--as always, it helps.
> > I'm past anger, yours is refreshing, Kat and I cherish it, and the doctor did apologize on the phone in a tiny little voice. It was obvious that the office manager hadn't told her the entire story (I wonder how she approached the real culprit in this crime.)
> >
> > The OM is about as mouthy as I am, I guess more so, Merry, and I think I'm scared to demand an apology, especially when I'm feeling "accused" of being intimidating. Jeeze.
> > Maybe take two provigil and a klonopin--I've been awake since 3 thinking about today. (I won't, Kat, I won't--joke). I'm hoping she won't be there. Now is that wuss-like or what? But you're right, she, the scolder, does owe me one. At this moment, I just want it to be 10:45 and over. By the way, welcome back!
> >
> > Lori, when you were explaining about taking Topamax, you mentioned something about another med easing your self-something. I obviously can't remember what it was but rumination is a word that popped into my head. Is that what you're talking about?
> > What kind of side effects does this med have for you? We have different lables to carry and you have a scan to prove your diagnosis, but our symtoms sound so similar. (Just clean the baseboards and the bathroom/kitchen.)
> >
> > And Kat. As a happy child of about 8 or 9 I used to hear symphonies in my head as I was falling asleep and the hypnopompic imagery I enjoyed was wonderful. Psychotic? Epileptic?
> > Med student hypochondria here?
> > I will be sorry to lose you from this board. I'm glad you're feeling better.
> > rainy
>
> Gotta write fast :) Got the kitchen done and most of the house but have to get the kids off to school and couldn't resist taking a peek. Luckily I had to print something for school. I take 125 mg. with the 400 mg of Effexor to ease the constant worrying. The meds didn't work yesterday. If I would have just cleaned my house yesterday I wouldn't have been so grumpy, but instead I stay up to 2 and now I am still stressed because I have to buy the food, decorate... I am hoping the Adderal will focus me more. If I ever fill it. I loook forward to getting you and kats posts, too.
> Lorioops
i take 125 of effexor and 400 of topamax, 200 of provigil
lori
Posted by iris2 on November 9, 2004, at 11:09:54
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by lorilu on November 8, 2004, at 23:22:58
How did you get the brain scan? Did your pdoc prescribe it? I am interessted for the same reasons you talkked about. To see what is going on and perhaps have a better tool to prescribe.
Thanks,
irene
Posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 12:39:19
In reply to Re: Big Stomach:( » headachequeen, posted by iris2 on November 8, 2004, at 19:51:38
> I know ther is no such thing as "normal" which is why I put it in quotes. Unfortunately I have no doctor to talk about this stuff with. I am basically being mly own practitioner and my pdoc just writes the scripts I ask him to. It is not a good situaltion but I have not ben aable to find a doctor that would or could treat me.
>
> irene
How alone you must feel. I wish there were some way of helping bridge that gap and emptiness
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 12:45:08
In reply to mean girl, posted by merry on November 8, 2004, at 20:59:00
> Rainy, That woman was wrong and she owes you an apology. Your pdoc also has a problem that must be frustrating you and all this just adds to how you must be feeling. Try not to get all stressed out before you go to your appointment.
>
> I know it would be easy to just go in there and just let her have it! That's what I would of done on the phone because I don't like to be unfairly accused. I have a Latin temper. But lately I've been very calm, so I don't how I would of responded now.
>
> Anyway, everything will be straighted out. And she will be made aware of her mistake and her face will be scarlet-red and her palms will sweat as she says how sorry she is for been such a stupid little meannie-head to you.
>
> And as for you pdoc, I hope she also apologizes to you. She should learn from this and she should reprimand the receptionist and next time she makes any kind of these types of med. changes in the future she will handle it differently.
>
> Sorry this happened to you.
>
> merryOh, merry, I too am seething about this... and it is one of the last of the racing brain thoughts I had before I crashed last night... those meds really work when I don't fight them <g>
Certainly both the doctor and the receptionist or secretary or whatever owe rainy an apology and it is overdue...
the doctor changed the prescription and should remember that... so she or he whatever owes the apology
and where does the employee get off reading rainy a lecture? it is none of the employee's business...
she certainly owes an apology and if she were my employee would be told off and told to apologise to rainy in my presence, once I had apologised to her...
rainy, when you go to your appointment, go calmly and with great deep breaths... and then explain for the sake of both of them that you did not change anything, the doctor made the changes for sake of expediency...
and insist on apologies...
and then calmly and ever so regally accept the apologies with the proviso that they think it over before flying off the handle at someone again...these people need to learn to think before operating mouth...
I am so hurt for you
kat and so angry
Posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 12:55:09
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help?, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 5:12:12
> Talk about self-preoccupied--that's my middle name! Thanks for your support--as always, it helps.
> I'm past anger, yours is refreshing, Kat and I cherish it, and the doctor did apologize on the phone in a tiny little voice. It was obvious that the office manager hadn't told her the entire story (I wonder how she approached the real culprit in this crime.)
>
> The OM is about as mouthy as I am, I guess more so, Merry, and I think I'm scared to demand an apology, especially when I'm feeling "accused" of being intimidating. Jeeze.
> Maybe take two provigil and a klonopin--I've been awake since 3 thinking about today. (I won't, Kat, I won't--joke). I'm hoping she won't be there. Now is that wuss-like or what? But you're right, she, the scolder, does owe me one. At this moment, I just want it to be 10:45 and over. By the way, welcome back!
>
> Lori, when you were explaining about taking Topamax, you mentioned something about another med easing your self-something. I obviously can't remember what it was but rumination is a word that popped into my head. Is that what you're talking about?
> What kind of side effects does this med have for you? We have different lables to carry and you have a scan to prove your diagnosis, but our symtoms sound so similar. (Just clean the baseboards and the bathroom/kitchen.)
>
> And Kat. As a happy child of about 8 or 9 I used to hear symphonies in my head as I was falling asleep and the hypnopompic imagery I enjoyed was wonderful. Psychotic? Epileptic?
> Med student hypochondria here?
> I will be sorry to lose you from this board. I'm glad you're feeling better.
> rainyFirst, rainy, I am not leaving this board...
the epilepsy boards are simply not for me...
most of the posters are too well, let's not go there, or I will be leaving; Dr. Bob will kick me off <g>
I may not belong here, but I do take Topomax so I guess that qualifies me ???secondly, you are owed an apology and you go get it...
that is that.
and the control me wants to hear that you received it...
you did nothing of which to be ashamed or for which to be criticised...
and the office manager is not the person to criticise or scold anyway...
what a crock of garbage...
she needs to be replaced with someone more in tune with the patients' needs and with reality...rainy, my dear friend, you must not be afraid to go there and must not be afraid to inform her, head held high, looking her in the eye, assuming she can look YOU in the eye, that you think she probably would like to get something off her chest, an apology no doubt for a terrible mistake she made towards you...
and accept nothing less...
no, my dear, you don't get rid of me that easily...
I am not hypomanic; I am not depressed; but I shall be irritated if that intellectual hiccough does not apologise and do it properly
kat
and the doctor owes more than a wimpy apology in a tinny voice...
if he is a pdoc he should know that there is no room for wussiness in his profession
kat again
Posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:12:02
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help? » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 12:55:09
Thank you guys. I'm over the anger--I was where you are now shortly after it happened, but it's been not quite two months and I can't hold to being mad that long. I don't know why I was so apprehensive and cringing--I didn't behave that way in the office, nor did I take the klonopin I sorely wanted to.
The receptionist nodded stiffly and then scurried into another room when she saw me standing at the window to announce myself. I alluded to the incident during the pdoc visit (where in she refused to rx serzone, even though it's legally available from Canada and is the only AD that's really worked for me) but Ms. pdoc didn't want to talk about it. She did assure me that there is no mention of it in my record (but did not have the letter I had requested absolving me of the crime on hand.) She admitted that she herself had altered the scripts and would be more careful in the future.
I practiced diplomatic skills and came out rather well, I must say. I did not tell her what I wanted. Instead, I said things like, What do you think of...? Are you comfortable with...? (No to that one) Isn't this a symptom of..? Not intimidating at all. Pdoc's voice got stronger and stronger.
As I paid, O.M. came back into the little room and I greeted her with a smile and a "How are you?" She took a deep breath and sort of glared and tight smiled at me and replied "Fine" as if her gall stones were hurting a lot. If I weren't a feminist, I might have thought that she is plagued by PMS today, or her meds need to be adjusted. My husband suggests that she's mad at me because I ratted on her to the doc and she got hollered at herself, although the latter is unlikey. Maybe she's on probation?
Anyway, it's over, I go back in a month to see how I'm doing on 400 mg of wellbutrin (start that dose today--this medicine woman doesn't mess around with gradual) 200 provigil, divided dose, 300 Topamax, and 100 trazodone.On another note: It occurs to me that we've been talking about body image and stuff. Some of you whose taste for soft drinks hasn't been killed by Topamax might be opting for the diet brew. Ralph Walton (my ex pdoc, btw, before we moved) has published some studies that you can read on medline, I think, that indicate aspartane makes depression worse.
Just a heads up. He didn't ask me so I didn't tell him that I was drinking pints of it every day. Maybe the ADs would have worked better had I known.
Thanks again for your support.
relieved rainy
Posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:27:13
In reply to wuss central and aspartane, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:12:02
of course, part of that time I was drinking vodka with the diet gingerale, which also may have crimped the ADs just a little. Sheesh.
What, Kat, we're more interesting?
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 9, 2004, at 14:30:39
In reply to Re: can't stop thinking -Larry H. help? » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 12:55:09
Lorilu..have you ever considered Concerta instead of the Adderall? That just worries me. There is just so much negativity around that drug. Concerta is just long lasting Ritalin, pretty much. I am still confused as to why you need something to calm you down but you need a stimulant? Are you ADHD? SOmetimes I guess I think we just all need to wipe our slates clean and start over because our meds have been mixing so much we have no idea how they have been affecting us or each others effectiveness. You know what I mean? Thanks to you guys I started taking a potassium/magnesium supplement. I guess I hadn't really thought about how much I actually needed one until I looked it up online. Most people are walking around deficient and don't realize it. I didn't! Anyway, hopefully after this week...ahem...that sort of week, I will start losing more weight. I had lost 3lbs and gained back 2 but I wasn't really surprised. I always suddenly retain water on the first day. Of course, that Pumpkin Pie frostie thing from Dairy Queen last night didn't help..hehe. OH WHY OH WHY DID THEY HAVE TO COME OUT WITH THAT!!! Alas...a weakness...
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 14:38:50
In reply to wuss central and aspartane, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:12:02
> Ralph Walton (my ex pdoc, btw, before we moved) has published some studies that you can read on medline, I think, that indicate aspartane makes depression worse.
> Just a heads up. He didn't ask me so I didn't tell him that I was drinking pints of it every day. Maybe the ADs would have worked better had I known.
> Thanks again for your support.
> relieved rainyI think Walton would have wanted to know that. Just a guess.
For those interested in seeing the type of symptoms reported in aspartame-sensitive depressives, see the full text link. The abstract is below that.
Lar
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Aspartame-Adverse-Reactions-1993.htm
Biol Psychiatry. 1993 Jul 1-15;34(1-2):13-7.
Adverse reactions to aspartame: double-blind challenge in patients from a vulnerable population.
Walton RG, Hudak R, Green-Waite RJ.
Department of Psychiatry, Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine, Youngstown.
This study was designed to ascertain whether individuals with mood disorders are particularly vulnerable to adverse effects of aspartame. Although the protocol required the recruitment of 40 patients with unipolar depression and a similar number of individuals without a psychiatric history, the project was halted by the Institutional Review Board after a total of 13 individuals had completed the study because of the severity of reactions within the group of patients with a history of depression. In a crossover design, subjects received aspartame 30 mg/kg/day or placebo for 7 days. Despite the small n, there was a significant difference between aspartame and placebo in number and severity of symptoms for patients with a history of depression, whereas for individuals without such a history there was not. We conclude that individuals with mood disorders are particularly sensitive to this artificial sweetener and its use in this population should be discouraged.
Posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:54:30
In reply to Re: wuss central and aspartane » rainy, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 14:38:50
He knew about the alcohol, just not the mixer. As to the former he said, "Stop doing that," and I said, "I want to," which was the absolute truth. I had no idea about the aspartame even though a friend was one of the participants in one of his studies. It just didn't compute. Even now it doesn't. Hello??
Luckily, I drink very little of either beverage certainly no hard stuff, but a swig of gingerale and OJ is hard to beat on a hot day.
Thanks for your back up--that bit about NEOUCOM makes me homesick. I was a "simulated patient" for the medical school for a number of years.
rainy
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 9, 2004, at 16:36:30
In reply to Re: wuss central and aspartane » rainy, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 14:38:50
Interesting. Diet drinks have never made me depressed I can honestly say, but I have to avoid them in great quantities for another reason. My body treats artificial sweeteners like real sugar. Whereas it may not treat it as the same AMOUT of real sugar it still treats it as I am drinking sugar. I have noticed that when I drink diet drinks and still drink water my weight loss still slows and I have even gained. That is why I try and stick to water. I also notice that when I drink soft drinks (diet), I don't drink regular ones unless I am absolutely parched and there is nothing else, I am not as thirsty and don't drink as much during the day. Then I tend to retain water and get swollen. It's like it backs up. My body needs lots of water to function. I guess thats why I thought I probably needed a potassium/magnesium supplement. Anyway, That study was quite interesting but I can honestly say I don't believe a Diet Coke ever made me sad. :)
Posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 20:44:15
In reply to Re: wuss central and aspartane » rainy, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:27:13
> of course, part of that time I was drinking vodka with the diet gingerale, which also may have crimped the ADs just a little. Sheesh.
> What, Kat, we're more interesting?
> rainyOh, rainy, being more interesting is only half of it!!!!!!!
The couple of places I have found have been either totally clinical and cold and technical or inhabited with people who were born with broomsticks stuck in very uncomfortable (*I* think) places...
The one seemed inhabited by people who were interested in information for third parties and no one seems at all supportive or interested in anyone but the great and all expansive MEHere on the topomax board there is so much information and support and warmth...
how on earth could I settle for less?And how could I leave wondering how each of these people who has come to mean so much is managing???
not a chance!
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 20:48:34
In reply to wuss central and aspartane, posted by rainy on November 9, 2004, at 14:12:02
> Thank you guys. I'm over the anger--I was where you are now shortly after it happened, but it's been not quite two months and I can't hold to being mad that long. I don't know why I was so apprehensive and cringing--I didn't behave that way in the office, nor did I take the klonopin I sorely wanted to.
> The receptionist nodded stiffly and then scurried into another room when she saw me standing at the window to announce myself. I alluded to the incident during the pdoc visit (where in she refused to rx serzone, even though it's legally available from Canada and is the only AD that's really worked for me) but Ms. pdoc didn't want to talk about it. She did assure me that there is no mention of it in my record (but did not have the letter I had requested absolving me of the crime on hand.) She admitted that she herself had altered the scripts and would be more careful in the future.
> I practiced diplomatic skills and came out rather well, I must say. I did not tell her what I wanted. Instead, I said things like, What do you think of...? Are you comfortable with...? (No to that one) Isn't this a symptom of..? Not intimidating at all. Pdoc's voice got stronger and stronger.
> As I paid, O.M. came back into the little room and I greeted her with a smile and a "How are you?" She took a deep breath and sort of glared and tight smiled at me and replied "Fine" as if her gall stones were hurting a lot. If I weren't a feminist, I might have thought that she is plagued by PMS today, or her meds need to be adjusted. My husband suggests that she's mad at me because I ratted on her to the doc and she got hollered at herself, although the latter is unlikey. Maybe she's on probation?
> Anyway, it's over, I go back in a month to see how I'm doing on 400 mg of wellbutrin (start that dose today--this medicine woman doesn't mess around with gradual) 200 provigil, divided dose, 300 Topamax, and 100 trazodone.
>
> On another note: It occurs to me that we've been talking about body image and stuff. Some of you whose taste for soft drinks hasn't been killed by Topamax might be opting for the diet brew. Ralph Walton (my ex pdoc, btw, before we moved) has published some studies that you can read on medline, I think, that indicate aspartane makes depression worse.
> Just a heads up. He didn't ask me so I didn't tell him that I was drinking pints of it every day. Maybe the ADs would have worked better had I known.
> Thanks again for your support.
> relieved rainy
Wow! you managed to hang in for two months...
I stand in awe...
you are one self-controlled gal and I am really impressed...kat
Posted by FionaJ on November 10, 2004, at 4:29:28
In reply to Re: wuss central and aspartane » rainy, posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 14:38:50
You guys just keep on overwhelming me with the amount of info I get from following this site. I'mm still new, so i find myself slow in responding to all the interesting and new info about Topamax and mood disorders. Hopfully I'll get around in good time.
Posted by rainy on November 10, 2004, at 7:17:10
In reply to Re: wuss central and aspartane » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 9, 2004, at 20:48:34
Well, Kat, I have brown hair. I wished for a little of the red head gene yesterday, but again-I don't stay mad very long, ever. It takes too much energy. Righteous anger can be very energizing, though.
About hair. You wrote you lost tons of your hair on tegretol. When it grew back, was it a different texture? I lost mine on Lamictal and it's grown back very curly and wiry--an elderly orphan annie look, shorn short.
FionaJ, you're doing fine--are you a red head? Your name sounds like you might be.
rainy
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