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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by fluffy on February 26, 2004, at 17:47:11
In reply to Re: You're ruminating, posted by Lazarus on February 26, 2004, at 17:18:54
Um, yeah, that's what ruminating MEANS. And yes, it's been established that it's a big part of being biplar (1 or 2). But i disagree that there are only 3 drugs to stop it.
Lamictal MAY stop it. Everyone is different. Unfortunately, it makes for subjective decisions with you and your doctor. So while it's good to get advice and support from others on this board, it's dangerous to interpret other peoples' results as what your experiences will be.
Sorry--this just touched a nerve with me. I've been through SEVERAL drug trials, including one with LOW DOSE Zyprexa, which gave me stiff hands and heavy legs. Not a typical reaction---My friend takes zyprexa and has no problems.
In general, though, atypical AP's can stop racing thoughts. But so can ALL of the mood stabilizers, including the anti-convulsants and Lithium. I'm finding relief with good old fashioned Depakote. (esp. in the whirling thought area) But I went through Lamictal, Wellbutrin, Lithium, and Zyprexa before I found stability. (basically 8 months of drug trials).
Have you been prescribed a benzo to help you sleep and get you through the rough spots? At first, I resisted the idea of a Benzo, thinking,--oh no! I'll get addicted!! But damn--it sure did help. Those racing thoughts are REALLY annoying when you're just trying to rest.
Hang in there. Drug trials are really difficult!! Good luck with Lamictal. What dose are you at?
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
In reply to Re: You're ruminating, posted by fluffy on February 26, 2004, at 17:47:11
What are atypical AP's?
Um, yeah, that's what ruminating MEANS. And yes, it's been established that it's a big part of being biplar (1 or 2). But i disagree that there are only 3 drugs to stop it.
>
> Lamictal MAY stop it. Everyone is different. Unfortunately, it makes for subjective decisions with you and your doctor. So while it's good to get advice and support from others on this board, it's dangerous to interpret other peoples' results as what your experiences will be.
>
> Sorry--this just touched a nerve with me. I've been through SEVERAL drug trials, including one with LOW DOSE Zyprexa, which gave me stiff hands and heavy legs. Not a typical reaction---My friend takes zyprexa and has no problems.
>
> In general, though, atypical AP's can stop racing thoughts. But so can ALL of the mood stabilizers, including the anti-convulsants and Lithium. I'm finding relief with good old fashioned Depakote. (esp. in the whirling thought area) But I went through Lamictal, Wellbutrin, Lithium, and Zyprexa before I found stability. (basically 8 months of drug trials).
>
> Have you been prescribed a benzo to help you sleep and get you through the rough spots? At first, I resisted the idea of a Benzo, thinking,--oh no! I'll get addicted!! But damn--it sure did help. Those racing thoughts are REALLY annoying when you're just trying to rest.
>
> Hang in there. Drug trials are really difficult!! Good luck with Lamictal. What dose are you at?
Posted by Dalilah on February 26, 2004, at 21:06:15
In reply to What are atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
True, true, it's all different for everyone.
Most of us have spent years getting to any point of stability with our meds.I did not get relief from my depression with Lamictal til I hit 300mg. I need to take it along with Lithium and my anti-psychotic Seroquel. When I went up in dose I found increased irritation but it went away after a few days.
That's all I've got to say.
-Dalilah
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
In reply to What are atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 26, 2004, at 20:15:43
What does this mean "atypical AP's"?
Posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
In reply to What does this mean atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
(almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
Posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:35:51
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
Hey Bruce--
Sorry to use the abbreviated terminology on you without saying what it means. Atypical AP means Atypical antipsychotic. I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, but they are known to have helped some people in stopping racing thoughts (i.e. anti-manic properties). Also--anti-convulsants such as Depakote and Tegretol are more on the anti-manic side of things. They may suit your set of symptoms better if Lamictal doesn't work for the manicky stuff.
What you are experiencing is indeed called ruminating. And it is associated with hypomania or mania. I'm assuming your diagnosis is bipolar I or II? If so, then racing thoughts are the numero uno sign that you are getting hypomanic. In fact, I'm having that problem today. In the shower this morning and on my walk, my mind was jumping all over the place with fragmented thoughts. None of them coming to completion, therefore none of them making much sense.
Most everyone who is bipolar experiences this. Even when I'm depressed, I have repetetive, negative ruminations.
Keep trying with the Lamictal. I did find that it made me agitated at first. I stuck with it and gave it a fair trial (4 months) and found that it didn't do as much as i needed as monotherapy. I've read by some on this board, though that it helped tremendously. In the end, I've stuck with Depakote, as it has controlled more of my symptoms.
Have you told your doctor about the racing thoughts? He may be able to prescribe something like an atypical AP (low dose). Try not to dig your heels in yet about any particular drug because it sounds like you are very new to this and fairly medication naive (meaning you haven't gone through the gamut of meds). If you are new to this, then drugs like LITHIUM and ANTIPSYCHOTICS sound really scary. But they are just another set of chemicals out there to help regulate the problems you are having. So you have lots of hope for future help if Lamictal doesn't cut the mustard alone.
Best of luck,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:53:28
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
If you haven't found this site, it's extremely helpful. I'm posting a link that describes hypomania and/or anxious depression.
If you have the time to read it, the whole site is very informative. There are detailed options on drugs and what symptoms they target.
Posted by Dalilah on February 27, 2004, at 12:10:35
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
Bruce,
I've experienced this mind racing you speak of pretty much my whole life. And if it's not out of control, not too much, it's what I like about me. I get a lot done, I think fast, etc. Lithium for me is the one that helps with mania, and seroquel (only a low dose at night) is much more important than I initially realized. I can't sleep without it. Yes, even before the Lamictal. The Lam is what brought me out of a depression that lasted for over a year straight. Of course I've had plenty of other depressions before that, but nothing that strong. I think Lam was not the only cure. It was time, my body needed that much time to go through it. Ouch, indeed.Anyhow, FOR ME, the atypical anti-psychotic seroquel makes me calm enough to live my life during the day and also sleep through the night, which obviously plays a big part in all this mood stuff.
Also the trick for me was to not take away all the "mind racing" cause I didn't want to be totally flat.
-Dalilah
> I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
> I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.
>
> When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
> When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
> (almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.
>
> I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
> I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.
>
> My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
> I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
> Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
> Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
> Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
> Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.
>
> I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
>
Posted by katia on February 28, 2004, at 13:42:43
In reply to Re: Mind Racing, posted by fluffy on February 27, 2004, at 10:53:28
Hi Katy,
I was wondering about you. Sounds like Depakote is working?! That's great. Have you had any s/e from it? I just started on Trileptal and will probably add-on Wellbutrin. Yep - confirmed. I'm BP. Very dynamic moods I have. and ever changing!
Keep in touch!
Katia
Posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:24:53
In reply to What does this mean atypical AP's?, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 9:24:01
> What does this mean "atypical AP's"?
Atypical AP's are 3rd generation. They are broadspectrum like the 1st generation but with less side effects.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:41:46
In reply to Mind Racing, posted by bruce_w6 on February 27, 2004, at 10:01:59
> I would be most grateful if someone could please advise me about something I have been experiencing.
> I would appreciate some help as soon as possible.
>
> When I try to go to sleep at night, I experience garbled thoughts racing through my mind.
> When I say garbled thoughts, I mean thoughts that often don't make much sense
> (almost imagine talking to myself or just lots of random thoughts, lots of dreams, restlessness, etc). My mind is not at rest.
>
> I often wake up, then try to sleep again, but can't because I feel as though I can't keep still and also find the racing thoughts come back.
> I wake up and feel as though I can't keep still even when awake. I have had some nights of fairly good sleep, but quite often I find it difficult.
>
> My mind still feels active too sometimes during the day.
> I take 10 mg of Ambiam OR 1 mg of Lorazapam, but I still experience the above problems.
> Without the Ambiam OR Lorazapam, sleeping is impossible.
> Does anyone have any idea as to what I could be experiencing or has anyone experienced this themselves?
> Any advise as to how to eliminate this problems?
> Thank you for reading my post. I would appreciate any feedback.
>
> I had this before I started Lamictal. I am at 100 mg a day for past week.
>Seroquel or Zyprexa would be better meds for you. They put you to sleep by being anti-histamines + they improve your sleep by blocking 5-HT2a. If you are not keen on AP's you could try low dose AD's like Remeron, Doxepin, Trimipramine or Amitriptyline as they achieve sleep in the same fashion. I use Remeron myself, I find it turns off my mind & allows me to stop thinking excessively when I am trying to sleep.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KXo on February 29, 2004, at 11:12:14
In reply to Re: Mind Racing » bruce_w6, posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 8:41:46
Hello Panda!
Do you use Remeron just when you can't sleep or everyday? What dosage? Don't you feel tired the following day?
KXo> Seroquel or Zyprexa would be better meds for you. They put you to sleep by being anti-histamines + they improve your sleep by blocking 5-HT2a. If you are not keen on AP's you could try low dose AD's like Remeron, Doxepin, Trimipramine or Amitriptyline as they achieve sleep in the same fashion. I use Remeron myself, I find it turns off my mind & allows me to stop thinking excessively when I am trying to sleep.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
Posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 13:18:46
In reply to Re: Mind Racing, posted by KXo on February 29, 2004, at 11:12:14
> Hello Panda!
> Do you use Remeron just when you can't sleep or everyday? What dosage? Don't you feel tired the following day?
> KXo
>
>I take it everyday as it helps me with Effexor side effects. I took 15mg for along time, it took me some time to get up to 30mg. I needed the higher dose so I could increase my Effexor, so basically I'm taking a pill to counter the side effects of another pill. :)
If you only want it for sleep I would try 7.5mg or 15mg. I did have sleep problems but not anymore.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by KXo on February 29, 2004, at 21:55:10
In reply to Re: Mind Racing » KXo, posted by Sad Panda on February 29, 2004, at 13:18:46
> > Hello Panda!
> > Do you use Remeron just when you can't sleep or everyday? What dosage? Don't you feel tired the following day?
> > KXo
> >
> >
>
> I take it everyday as it helps me with Effexor side effects. I took 15mg for along time, it took me some time to get up to 30mg. I needed the higher dose so I could increase my Effexor, so basically I'm taking a pill to counter the side effects of another pill. :)
>
> If you only want it for sleep I would try 7.5mg or 15mg. I did have sleep problems but not anymore.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.Panda,
I was just curious. I don't want Remeron anymore. I tryed it for more than a month and I had the worst side-effects I ever had since the beginning. I though they would go away with time, but they didn't. I am kind of angry with this medication, because of this. hehehe I am smiling! Good! :)) I found medicines that suit better on me now. It helps you and I hope you get better day after day!
KXo
Posted by Sad Panda on March 1, 2004, at 0:23:59
In reply to Re: Mind Racing, posted by KXo on February 29, 2004, at 21:55:10
> > > Hello Panda!
> > > Do you use Remeron just when you can't sleep or everyday? What dosage? Don't you feel tired the following day?
> > > KXo
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I take it everyday as it helps me with Effexor side effects. I took 15mg for along time, it took me some time to get up to 30mg. I needed the higher dose so I could increase my Effexor, so basically I'm taking a pill to counter the side effects of another pill. :)
> >
> > If you only want it for sleep I would try 7.5mg or 15mg. I did have sleep problems but not anymore.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Panda.
>
> Panda,
> I was just curious. I don't want Remeron anymore. I tryed it for more than a month and I had the worst side-effects I ever had since the beginning. I though they would go away with time, but they didn't. I am kind of angry with this medication, because of this. hehehe I am smiling! Good! :)) I found medicines that suit better on me now. It helps you and I hope you get better day after day!
> KXo
>
>What sort of side effects did you have? When I tried increasing to 30mg I had alot of irritability/crankiness, it took me more than a month to get over it. Effexor gives me really bad nausea, diarrhea & sex problems(no orgasm) Just 15mg was enough to counter these problems for me with 150mg of Effexor. To take 225mg of Effexor I had to increase Remeron to 30mg.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Bristol on March 1, 2004, at 0:24:40
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
Hi: The only side effects I've heard of are rashes...but that this can be controlled by going on it very slowly..
Can anyone tell me of the side effects of Lamictal, or just any benifical info on the med.
Posted by bruce_w6 on March 1, 2004, at 9:47:13
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
What is Lithium Orotate? Is it the same as Lithium?
I take Lmictal and it helps with depression, will the Lithium help with the irritability and mind racing?
At what dose will I have to get blood tests?
Posted by KXo on March 1, 2004, at 23:53:29
In reply to Re: Mind Racing » KXo, posted by Sad Panda on March 1, 2004, at 0:23:59
I had many side-effects. Between others I don't remember now, I couldn't feel much touches in my skin, my joints were soft, there was a strange feeling between my nose and the back of my head. Sleep and sleep! I wasn't feeling myself.
I felt no anxiety, something I had never felt before. This was good for me to know what anxiety really was, but I need some anxiety. This, including this being the last antidepresant I would be trying, is why I could wait for so long for the side effects to disapear, which never happened.
I was on 30mg and on 45mg.
Being on Effexor, did all your sex problems got better, adding Remeron?
KXo
> What sort of side effects did you have? When I tried increasing to 30mg I had alot of irritability/crankiness, it took me more than a month to get over it. Effexor gives me really bad nausea, diarrhea & sex problems(no orgasm) Just 15mg was enough to counter these problems for me with 150mg of Effexor. To take 225mg of Effexor I had to increase Remeron to 30mg.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>
>
>
Posted by biohazard2 on March 2, 2004, at 2:09:21
In reply to Re: Mind Racing » Sad Panda, posted by KXo on March 1, 2004, at 23:53:29
i complained of mind racing to my Psychologist.
he recomendeded risperdal, i have steadily increased the dosage thru my regular doc to 4 mg. which now i feel is a bit excessive. but it does help, i proablby will decrease my dosage in the following months since i am seeing a p-doc. and he said i am not getting the meds i need. i am taking risperdal 4 mg., xanax .50 mg, and lexapro 10 mg. i will probally increase my lexapro and decrease my respirdal and xanax, (esp. the xanax since i have a problem with binge drinking.).
anyway, i feel the respirdal has helped with my racing thoughts and i would like to stay on it. i look forward to every morning when i take it, i chew it and the results are good. i cannot remember the times i had racing thoughts so much, when i do have them, i take a xannax and drink beer.hope this of help, although drinking is not the solution....
thx,
biohazard2
Posted by platinumbride on March 2, 2004, at 9:33:12
In reply to Lithium Orotate, posted by bruce_w6 on March 1, 2004, at 9:47:13
> What is Lithium Orotate? Is it the same as Lithium?
I am quite sure that it is. There may just be some "organic chemistry" little molecular structure difference
>
> I take Lmictal and it helps with depression, will the Lithium help with the irritability and mind racing?It probably would, because that has been what it has been doing for years....some say it even helps with depression too...
>
> At what dose will I have to get blood tests?
>
At any dose, is my understanding. I think the big thing is avoiding toxicity and making sure that it isn't messing up your kidneys. I think that without blood work, toxicity issues can't be discovered until it is too late.....Diane
Posted by platinumbride on March 3, 2004, at 10:38:16
In reply to Lithium Orotate, posted by bruce_w6 on March 1, 2004, at 9:47:13
I am soooo sorry that I spoke about Lithium Orotate before I really knew waht I was talking about!
Apparently it is lithium, but not the prescribed kind and allegedly has no toxicity issues. Some say it is just as good as regular old lithium without the toxicity issues, and I THINK it requires no blood monitoring. ( I just talked to my doc about this last night)
D
Posted by Michael Motter on March 3, 2004, at 12:32:28
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate..oops!!!, posted by platinumbride on March 3, 2004, at 10:38:16
I am a psychology doctoral student at JMU. I wrote a paper on Lithium Orotate in my psychopharmacology class. I know some people who use it and was interested in what it was about. Yes it is Lithium but it is carried through your blood on a carrier called orotate. This carrier is suppossed to decrease the amount of lthium that enters your blood so you donot have to get your blood levels checked. However, it is debatable whether enough lithium actually enters the body to have any therapeutic effects. There is little research done Lithium orotate and and it is questionable whether it has any side effects.
If anyone would like a copy of my paper please email mottermx@jmu.edu
Posted by Toph on March 3, 2004, at 15:49:42
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate..oops!!! » platinumbride, posted by Michael Motter on March 3, 2004, at 12:32:28
Michael, does your research indicate how much litium orotate one would have to injest daily to obtain a therapeutic serum Li level of .5-1.5?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 4, 2004, at 1:53:40
In reply to Lithium Orotate, posted by bruce_w6 on March 1, 2004, at 9:47:13
> What is Lithium Orotate? Is it the same as Lithium?
I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding lithium orotate to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040225/msgs/319995.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by bruce_w6 on March 5, 2004, at 12:22:55
In reply to Lamictal side effects, posted by seamus o'noolan on June 30, 2003, at 17:37:40
Is anyone taking this combo? I am up to 150 mg Lamictal and can't sleep well at night. I take my lamictal in the moring.
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