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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1187 to 1211 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by AKC on July 19, 2001, at 10:56:05
In reply to Re: To Purple, posted by jotho on July 19, 2001, at 10:23:34
I have to add to this also.
I am now on topamax. My doctor is a saint, in my book. All the official lit told her to put my on it at 50 mg, and titrate me up at 50mg a week. But all my research -- all the anectdotal stuff I read on the net (and I read everything I could find), told me to do no more than 25mg a week. I am lucky enough to have a doctor who trusts me, and that's the route we took. But what if I had not had the energy, the resources, the brain power to do that. My doctor did her research. I have had some side effects - how bad would they have been? Probably so bad, I would have had to quit taking the med (some cognitive dulling - with the latest increase somewhat disturbing and it lasted three days, but it did go away) - and so far, this med has turned out to be a miracle med for me.
So many of these meds are put on the market with so little testing -- we demand it so often - we are desparate - and the companies are desparate for profits (because shareholders like myself are desparate for higher stock prices and dividends). I don't think that when new information begins to trickle in, that information is getting passed on very efficiently. Is a lawsuit the answer? Definitely in somecases (think phen-fen - I think the drug companies waited much too long before pulling the plug on that one). In other cases, we are much too litigous (for those on this board, you may not know, I am an attorney, but not a litigator, so take this comments with a grain of salt. :) !)
anyway, my thoughts.
Your resident hounddog.
Posted by jotho on July 19, 2001, at 11:37:05
In reply to Re: To Purple, posted by AKC on July 19, 2001, at 10:56:05
>
Hi, AKC...
I agree that all problems cannot, and should not, be solved through litigation. But, the point is, there is, or can be, no arbitrary line drawn in the sand as to which policy is right or wrong in whichever situation. Each individual , of course, is going to have different results with their medication...but I think it is when some people begin to feel that they are the unwitting,and i'm sure, unwilling, test subjects for drug companies too motivated by money rather than safe results, that litigation comes to bear. Certain drugs are a heaven-send to many people, but that should not mean that the claims of others should be dismissed because of it. And, like you stated, you were lucky in that you found anecdotal evidence on the web...that accounts for something also. Basically i think we agree in essence, and i'm happy that you found success in your medication. Continued luck and best wishes.
john
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2001, at 11:59:52
In reply to Re: withdrawal should be paid for by Wyeth-Ayerst, posted by purple on July 18, 2001, at 13:18:00
> Get over it, there are risks and side effects with almost any medication out there. You put it into your own body.
You may have a point. Still, please try to be supportive when expressing it.
> you see, some of us actually trusted the doctors who put us on this medication (Gee what a concept). But we’ll have to try and remember your great wisdom in hindsight.
Even if a poster isn't supportive, please try to avoid sarcasm. Two wrongs don't make a right. Thanks,
Bob
PS: Some guidelines for posting are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding supportiveness or civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise they may be deleted.
Posted by kathyy on July 19, 2001, at 17:22:39
In reply to To Purple » purple, posted by ksc on July 19, 2001, at 9:20:46
Oh my God, I agree wholeheartedly . I too trusted dr's. And am now being bombarded with people telling me things like well-, "you should've rsearched this stuff beforehand". Or, well, "you're gonna have to learn to live like this now." Or "hindsight is the best teacher" Or the dr's not having a clue what is going on now. My $30 Hmo mistake ( LONG STORY BY the way), has now cost upwards of $20,000+ .And I believe I am permannently damaged. I am experiencing everything you said too.My posts are previously on
July 14 "Have Life Altering Effect on Celexa/Ativan, " and july 15 " Has Anyone Lost Emotions On SSRI's?" It's only some of the story cause it'd take to long. I have a new theory on family physicians prescribing medicine too quickly without getting all the facts and not being "educated" as to what could Possibly happen on these pills- My new theory is "WATCH YOUR OWN BACK - cause No One will". It's a pretty bad commentary in the day of the Hmo, when medicine has really changed in the past 10 years to the point that drs are so quick and some are truly uneducated. I'm not talking about psych. who are completly educated on these drugs. I mean the local Dr primary who's cluless.The pharmaceutical companies- well let me tell you - I live near Smith kline/ Glaxo. -ANd I pass Wyeth on the way to my psych., and they are constant reminders that I trusted a primary physcian with my HEALTH. I regret not doing research first. It may kill me -this regret.
Posted by sketchy on July 19, 2001, at 19:38:24
In reply to Re: To Purple, posted by AKC on July 19, 2001, at 10:56:05
This site has been a god send for me. I stopped taking Effeor 75mg. after 6 months, 4 days ago. My symptoms have been electrical zapping in my whole body, tiredness, sinus, MOODY, trouble sleeping, very stange dreams, night sweating etc. My husband told me that I've been talking lots in my sleep. I am thankful I am not on that high of a dose and I'm not sure if the doseage relates to withdrawl severity, but I am going to continue to try to abstain. I have read previous posts about Kava-kava, which I plan to buy tonight, as well as Benadryl, TheraFlu and Nyquil. I would much rather try these first than go back to this drug. I began my medication as a referal from my MD for mild depression. I have subsequently found out that I am peri-menopausal, hence I am sure the reason for my mid life depression. Now that I know the root couse for my anxiety I can deal with it without this drug. For some I am sure it has been wonderful. For me it has been a nightmare for the last four days. I have also read posts about seratonin syndrome. Does anyone have experience with seratonin suplementation, will this help or not?
Thanks in advance!
Posted by ksc on July 20, 2001, at 8:50:42
In reply to Re: please be supportive » purple, ksc, posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2001, at 11:59:52
DR. BOB WROTE:
"Even if a poster isn't supportive, please try to avoid sarcasm. Two wrongs don't make a right."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're right Dr. Bob, it wasn't necessary and I appologize for my sarcasm.This is just a very painful experience for so many of us here on this board. To simply say "get over it", is like telling a cancer patient to stop whining about their disease. Of course it's not as life threatening as that, but to many of us it feels that way. Like cancer, we can't help it, we didn't ask for it, we didn't want this, we feel sick and we don't know if and when it'll ever end, this has been life altering for all of us. All we can do, is hope that the people who do put us down or think we're whining, don't EVER have to go through what we're going through.
I appologize again for my sarcasm, I just can't appologize for my pain.
KSC
Posted by Heidi M on July 20, 2001, at 9:25:41
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
>
> Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> to have a lot of success...
>
> please share your thoughts on this.I sent you a lengthly email regarding our family experience with Xyprexa and mental illness with my son when he was 13.
Please feel free to email me. I am afraid that I responded to the wrong Thread and you won't see it. I am new at this. When I saw your posting, it struck every nerve in my body. I DO FEEL YOUR PAIN. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME.
Sincerely,
Heidi M.
S. W. Missouri
Posted by jotho on July 20, 2001, at 9:52:06
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Heidi M on July 20, 2001, at 9:25:41
Heide...
If you go to the page bottom and click on "psycho-babble" it will return you to Dr. Bob's home page. You can then scroll down a little bit to "search", then you can enter the keyword of the thread you wish to find. It will then list all the postings for that keyword. I think i've got that right...good luck.
Posted by Teri on July 20, 2001, at 13:24:57
In reply to CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! - Zo?, posted by Willow on June 16, 2001, at 21:22:44
Hi I have had strong symptoms of Chronic Fatigue for the last 6 months along with depression and anxiety that could be related or not. I've read that one of the treatments for CFS are SSRI type medications but that CFS sufferers can't tolerate the doses others can. My doctor started me on 37.5mg of Effexor XR and wanted me to go up each week until I got to 150mg. The side effects on top of the CFS was too much and I couldn't even handle the 75mg of Effexor XR. I had to back down to 37.5mg and also take 15mg of Remeron and Ambien at night to sleep. The depression and anxiety seem to be getting worse lately and the exhaustion from the fatigue is worsening. In the beginning of the Effexor XR treatment it seemed to help the symptoms of CFS. I have thought about trying to increase the dose again to 75mg and was wondering what doses other CFS people have been on and if they had trouble tolerating it. Thanks! Teri
Posted by Willow on July 20, 2001, at 15:39:18
In reply to Re: CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! - Zo?, posted by Teri on July 20, 2001, at 13:24:57
Teri
What other medications have you taken? Have you tried other types of treatments?
Yes there are side-effects with effexor, but they are more tolerable for me than the side-effects of other medications, and I have found that it helps with the cognitive problems that I was having.
I got best results at 150mg. Below that it made me too sleepy.
The remeron can make you tired I think.
Keep in touch!
Willow
Posted by Teri on July 20, 2001, at 16:05:28
In reply to Re: CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! » Teri, posted by Willow on July 20, 2001, at 15:39:18
Hi. I've had anxiety and depression problems for about 10 years and have been on a couple of TCA's, Zoloft which I had to stop because of Serotonin Syndrome caused by taking Zoloft and Trazodone at night for sleep. I went on Remeron after that 22.5mg but I've been burning the candle at both ends for a long time and started getting chronic fatigue symptoms about 6 or more months ago. It was probably building up before that. I have just been so run down. I used to exercise a lot and can't handle the level I used to be at. Yoga seems to help and I can still do some aerobic activity but too much of it and I pay dearly the next day. My doctor wanted to put me on Effexor XR because she thought it would help my chronic fatigue symptoms but it's really activating for me and that seemed to put more stress on my body. It did lift my mood, though, but I couldn't handle going up on it. It gave me insomnia which is tough to deal with when you're chronically fatigued. It seemed to help my anxiety after a while but that is getting worse. That's why I thought I would try to increase it. gotta sleep though! I've been on 37.5mg of Effexor XR for 2 months. I just stayed on a low dose of the Remeron to help me sleep but the Ambien is what seems to do the trick. Do you have CFS? Thanks Teri
Posted by jotho on July 20, 2001, at 16:54:30
In reply to Heide M, posted by jotho on July 20, 2001, at 9:52:06
Heide...please pardon my last answer. The site search engine (how i didn't see it i will never know) is on the same page as the Follow-up submittal box...about two inches underneath it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 21, 2001, at 12:54:02
In reply to Re: please be supportive, posted by ksc on July 20, 2001, at 8:50:42
> You're right Dr. Bob, it wasn't necessary and I appologize for my sarcasm.
Thanks for understanding. :-)
> This is just a very painful experience for so many of us here on this board. To simply say "get over it", is like telling a cancer patient to stop whining about their disease.
I know, people shouldn't say things like that. But this isn't a perfect world (or even a perfect board :-), so it's good to have an idea of to deal with it when it does inevitably happen.
Bob
PS: Any further follow-ups really should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Willow on July 21, 2001, at 14:21:44
In reply to Re: CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! , posted by Teri on July 20, 2001, at 16:05:28
Teri
Yes I have CFS, became ill with it in the spring of '95, though I've had problems with depression starting from my teens. Once I stopped working because of symptoms I came across an article regarding somatization disorder (somatisation.) Since then I've been seeing a psychologist and almost a year ago started the effexor. Recently I've had a sleep study because of the side-effects of the effexor worsening my movements during sleep. Two years ago I was treated for a stomach inflammation (don't know what it is called - duodentitis?.) Treating these little things has helped me alot. Check out "generalized anxiety disorder" too. (GAD)
Do you have a hard time sleeping? For me I have a hard time staying awake. Getting restorative sleep obviously can help with daytime fatigue.
BEST WISHES
Willow
Posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 17:10:10
In reply to Re: CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! - Zo?, posted by Teri on July 20, 2001, at 13:24:57
Sorry I can't be of much help, because I had absolutely no trouble tolerating Effexor, in fact it is my mainstay. ..My dose varies from 300 to 375, if things get tough. I'm also on Dexedrine, couldn't function without it - and it also does much to help with pain, which most people don't realize - and a small dose of Neurontin also for the FM and for sleep. I found ALL SSRIs and tricyclics to worse than the illness itself, including Remeron. I'd rather take benzos to sleep. Had a super 6 months, best ever, adding Zyprexa - but also added 40 lbs. and ruined my blood sugar - am presently searching for a replacement. Geodon and Risperdol both felt awful. I am also BPII and have TLE, but as you probably know, a lot of dxs fit under the umbrella of CFS.
Let me know if I can help - have had CFS for 20 yrs. If there is a single key, I would say the Dex - or Adderall.
Zo
Posted by Willow on July 22, 2001, at 18:56:54
In reply to Re: CFS, Effexor - YES!!!! - Zo? » Teri, posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 17:10:10
*I'm also on Dexedrine, couldn't function without it - and it also does much to help with pain, which most people don't realize
What does the dexedrine do for you?
Willow
Posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 20:48:41
In reply to - Zo? , posted by Willow on July 22, 2001, at 18:56:54
> *I'm also on Dexedrine, couldn't function without it - and it also does much to help with pain, which most people don't realize
>
> What does the dexedrine do for you?
>
> WillowIt gives me a *mind!* By now, it feels like normal, but I remember when I started, it was like putting glasses on my brain.
I can also tell when my dose is low because I have poorer posture. . .and if I forget a dose, which I never do, I am a mental vegetable. . .feels like CFS is back full force. Dex and Neurontin wiped out that Sick All Over All The Time feeling.
Zo
Posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 20:48:46
In reply to - Zo? , posted by Willow on July 22, 2001, at 18:56:54
> *I'm also on Dexedrine, couldn't function without it - and it also does much to help with pain, which most people don't realize
>
> What does the dexedrine do for you?
>
> WillowIt gives me a *mind!* By now, it feels like normal, but I remember when I started, it was like putting glasses on my brain.
I can also tell when my dose is low because I have poorer posture. . .and if I forget a dose, which I never do, I am a mental vegetable. . .feels like CFS is back full force. Dex and Neurontin wiped out that Sick All Over All The Time feeling.
Zo
Posted by Willow on July 22, 2001, at 21:20:47
In reply to Re: - Zo? » Willow, posted by Zo on July 22, 2001, at 20:48:41
> It gives me a *mind!* By now, it feels like normal, but I remember when I started, it was like putting glasses on my brain.I guess the effexor did this for me. Have you found anything that has helped you with stamina. This is my major problem.
Willow
Posted by Zo on July 23, 2001, at 3:29:19
In reply to Re: - Zo? , posted by Willow on July 22, 2001, at 21:20:47
Willow, email me, zozo1029@mac.com
Posted by RAMFAN13 on July 24, 2001, at 9:19:32
In reply to Re: I did it--finally! » dshort, posted by paulk on July 10, 2001, at 22:09:41
> Do you have any source to back up your statement “as you take it is damage to the nervous system” ?
>
> The withdrawal symptoms are nasty – and you need to taper – VERY slowly. But the withdrawal effects do go away. For me, they lasted for over 4 weeks after I had completely stopped.
>
> There are many how will read this and be scared off from taking it – despite the nasty withdrawal effects I consider it a wonder drug and would recommend it as a worthy candidate for treating depression.
I consider it a "wonder" drug also. I wonder why anyone would take it. I cant believe you would recommend it after 4 weeks of withdrawal. I am on my second week and on leave from work. I had to take leave finally after missing several days of work. Before this, I could hardly work due to extreme fatigue, aches, lack of concentration. The pain I have been through while being on and getting off this drug is extreme. I almost lost job and relationships. I know it works differently for different people, but I have read about two much of this. Why would anyone want to risk this. We simply do not know yet of any permanent damage, but I dont want to find out later. Any drug that does this much harm should be looked at closely. Why do we put up with months of withdrawal from this. Many people lose jobs and family due to this and of course this only increases depression and suicide risk. I am not against all meds, but I would definitely say to anyone to look at this drug closely before you start taking it and do not stay on it for long if you have to take it. I want everyone to avoid the pain that I and many others have gone through due to taking this. Sorry for the rant, but had to vent a little. The pain is extreme folks, worse than any depression I have been through. Thanks.John
Posted by Iris on July 24, 2001, at 9:36:32
In reply to Re: I did it--finally!, posted by RAMFAN13 on July 24, 2001, at 9:19:32
John, how long did you take the Effexor? I started taking Effexor XR in April. It took about six weeks for the side effects to go away. Since then I have been doing great! Not a single Anxiety/Panic Attack and my daily headaches and dizzyness are completely gone.I must say so far I don't have any complaints. I started out on 75mg and I am still on the same dosage. I just hope and pray that everything will be this smoothe when I have to get off it - which will be in about three months. To all of you good luck.
Posted by Sophia B on July 24, 2001, at 10:45:44
In reply to Re: I did it--finally!, posted by RAMFAN13 on July 24, 2001, at 9:19:32
John,
I agree with you totally. I've been off Effexor (cold turkey) for about 12 days now. I went to my doctor yesterday, because I was so sick at work that I could't stand it. He acted as if the withdrawal was "all in my head". That is so frustrating to me! Anyway, he prescribed BuSpar. I have taken two doses, quite simply because I don't know what else to do. The withdrawal symptoms of Effexor are ruining my life! I had decided that I wouldn't take anything from now on, but I had to do something. I just hope and pray that I can get Effexor out of my system for good one day! Any advice anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, and good luck to all!> > Do you have any source to back up your statement “as you take it is damage to the nervous system” ?
> >
> > The withdrawal symptoms are nasty – and you need to taper – VERY slowly. But the withdrawal effects do go away. For me, they lasted for over 4 weeks after I had completely stopped.
> >
> > There are many how will read this and be scared off from taking it – despite the nasty withdrawal effects I consider it a wonder drug and would recommend it as a worthy candidate for treating depression.
>
>
> I consider it a "wonder" drug also. I wonder why anyone would take it. I cant believe you would recommend it after 4 weeks of withdrawal. I am on my second week and on leave from work. I had to take leave finally after missing several days of work. Before this, I could hardly work due to extreme fatigue, aches, lack of concentration. The pain I have been through while being on and getting off this drug is extreme. I almost lost job and relationships. I know it works differently for different people, but I have read about two much of this. Why would anyone want to risk this. We simply do not know yet of any permanent damage, but I dont want to find out later. Any drug that does this much harm should be looked at closely. Why do we put up with months of withdrawal from this. Many people lose jobs and family due to this and of course this only increases depression and suicide risk. I am not against all meds, but I would definitely say to anyone to look at this drug closely before you start taking it and do not stay on it for long if you have to take it. I want everyone to avoid the pain that I and many others have gone through due to taking this. Sorry for the rant, but had to vent a little. The pain is extreme folks, worse than any depression I have been through. Thanks.
>
> John
Posted by Sophia B on July 24, 2001, at 10:52:46
In reply to Re: Buspar - is it really helpful for anxiety? » Lynnae, posted by Becca L. on June 29, 2001, at 8:28:04
My doctor prescribed BuSpar to help me get through the withdrawal side effects of Effexor. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? Also, he acted as if the withdrawal symptoms were "all in my head". I'm at a loss.....I desperately need to get the Effexor out of my system, but I don't want to end up worse off than I am already. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!
lynnae,
> i'd have to agree with most of the other people who have commented on this--buspar is terrible. for me it wasn't so much a matter of unbearable side effects (though it did make me nauseated) as its utter lack of efficacy, even after several weeks; this was just so frustrating. my anxiety and fear of panic attacks felt crippling to me in my daily life, and i felt like they weren't being taken seriously at all by my doctor; he seemed to have put me on something that may as well have been a sugar pill because he didn't want to deal with the hassle of monitoring a patient on a "controlled substance" (i.e., a benzodiazepene tranqulizer).
>
> if ativan hasn't been especially helpful, there are many other drugs in the same family (benzodiazepenes) that you could try. i have been taking klonopin (the generic name is clonazepam) 3x daily for the past 2 years, and it has kept my panic attacks in check very well. just gives me the security to see my friends, go to work, talk to people, sleep, etc. i think in fact that klonopin is the most frequently prescribed medication for panic disorder. i think it makes a big difference, though, whether you take it on an 'as needed' basis or regularly. 'as needed' seems to work better for generalized anxiety, regular dosing better for panic disorder.
>
> anyway, from my own experience i'd have to say that buspar is one of the most bizarrely useless anti-anxiety drugs out there. i have no idea what it's still doing on the market. try another benzodiazepene instead. good luck!
Posted by MB on July 24, 2001, at 11:13:57
In reply to Re: I did it--finally!, posted by Sophia B on July 24, 2001, at 10:45:44
BuSpar induced side effects in me that felt identical to the withdrawal symptoms of SSRIs (that's why I had to quit taking the BuSpar). I definitely wouldn't want to take it if I were having brain shivers or dizzyness from SSRI withdrawal. To me, the withdrawal symptoms of Effexor are so similar to the withdrawal symptoms of the SSRIs that I would be scared to take BusPar if withdrawing from Effexor. It's not all in your head. Good luck to you. You'll be fine...you just may feel sick for a while, but it *does* pass. Peace.
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