Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 958362

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T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

Why is my T's trip out of town for her daughter's wedding eating me up inside? Makes me so sad...

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... LostPirate

Posted by sigismund on August 12, 2010, at 20:11:25

In reply to T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

Jealous?

I'll try to remember what Rabbi Kushner said about this in "When Bad Things Happen to Good People".

Something along the lines of that very few lives are enviable if we knew those lives well.

But maybe not jealous.

What do you think?

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by emmanuel98 on August 12, 2010, at 20:22:46

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings... LostPirate, posted by sigismund on August 12, 2010, at 20:11:25

Sometimes people feel that way because, deep down, they want their T to be a parent. The reminder that your T is a parent, but not to you, may feel very painful.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by sigismund on August 12, 2010, at 20:40:10

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by emmanuel98 on August 12, 2010, at 20:22:46

>they want their T to be a parent

And their friend!

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by Annierose on August 12, 2010, at 21:27:40

In reply to T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

I think your t's daughter's wedding is a reminder of the boundaries that exist between client and therapist. She has her private life that doesn't include her clients ... but remember that it doesn't mean she doesn't think of you, or that you do not matter. It's certainly a different sort of relationship that has its own language and boundaries and complications. But it's a real relationship nonetheless.

Try to think of it in terms of her own happiness ... if your therapist is happy, she will be happier in the rest of her life as well.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... LostPirate

Posted by obsidian on August 12, 2010, at 22:19:51

In reply to T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

oh...the thing you can't have, but want.
for me it might be because I am not "special" in the way that a child is special to parents who recognize the importance of being "present" on that day.

...but I would wish these experiences for my T, as they may be part of a life well lived and full, and among people perhaps truly connected to one another who know what it is to love one another.
but,
for everything there is an opposite, and I feel how distant I am from these things I imagine..
this hits home more than I can say right now.
I hope you can weather it well.
-sid

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by Dinah on August 12, 2010, at 22:39:31

In reply to T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

I think of my therapist rather as a therapist/mommy. And he says he thinks of me as a therapee/daughter.

But sometimes I'm reminded that it's all just true in that office, in certain times. The rest of the time I'm a client and he has a family.

My therapist's daughter's wedding would probably bring up some feelings of everything from wistfulness to a bit of sibling rivalry. Not quite as bad as when I heard about how touched he was when he held his infant niece, of course.

It doesn't mean I don't wish well for him and his family. It's just a juxtaposition of reality onto the therapeutic relationship.

But it would mean something different, or many somethings different, to each therapy client I think. How do you see your therapist? What do you think when you think of the wedding?

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by LostPirate on August 13, 2010, at 7:18:54

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by Dinah on August 12, 2010, at 22:39:31

I think it may be a little of what you have all mentioned.
My mom is in my life but she isnt stable and can be quite hurtful. My T is also in my life and is reliable and is not hurtful. So, yes, the maternal transference runs deep. But we talk about it and keep it in check. I guess that is why this wedding thing makes me crazy. Thoughts of her as a nurturing mom are torturous to me and they are quite vivid this week. She doesnt know that I know about the wedding so we cant really talk about that. Id almost prefer it that wayI dont want to step on her personal life. I know she would not like that. We meet once more before she goes away and I think I should at least talk about my insecure feelings in our relationship right now and see where it goes. Let her know my transference is flaring up and maybe we can quiet it a little. Sometimes I wish I could just walk out of her door and never look back and have no feelings about it. I dont think that can be done. I cant believe how sad this is making me.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by widget on August 13, 2010, at 17:05:22

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 13, 2010, at 7:18:54

I completely understand your feelings. My therapist went on a trip with his two daughters (and wife) and the fiancee of one of the daughters. I was so hurt and left out. It was a cruel reminder of just what our relationship is. I remember telling him I loved him and he told me I didn't know him well enough to love him. I didn't agree. After the session when he told me about his trip, I did feel I did not know him enough to love him. I was extremely angry and felt abandoned (abadonment is a core issue with me). I just felt so unimportant. Widget

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... widget

Posted by Annierose on August 13, 2010, at 21:05:36

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by widget on August 13, 2010, at 17:05:22

I was surprised to read that your therapist feels you do not know him well enough to love him. You certainly love him in the therapeutic setting and love what you do know and feel.

My t would say that at times, therapy-love feels like a glorious love affair. Other times, we (clients) feel everything else ... anger, confusion, betrayal, hurt, lonliness ... whatever. But it certainly brings up the good loving feelings too ... at least I think it could or should in a long term relationship.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by emmanuel98 on August 13, 2010, at 21:53:50

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings... widget, posted by Annierose on August 13, 2010, at 21:05:36

My T said I didn't love him because I didn't really know him. I told him I loved him the way my daughter loved me. That's not love, he said, that's dependence. Love means putting another's needs before your own. That's not what therapy is about.

It's hard to describe how painful my feelings of love for him have been. It feels so unrequited. He says he cares about me, I matter to him, I am important to his life, that he sees more of me and thinks about me more often than he does many good friends.

But I am always conscious of the ways I am excluded, the things he won't tell me about himself, the time he came to work with a new car, an important purchase I knew nothing about and that he wouldn't want to talk about with me.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by widget on August 14, 2010, at 3:03:15

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by emmanuel98 on August 13, 2010, at 21:53:50

Yes, that is it exactly. I have spent much, too much time, trying to prove to him and me that he is wrong. That day, I thought he was right. As I was angry at being abandoned by him for his "real" family, especially as I was having a very painful PTSD experience (never had before) and feeling extremely vulnerable and unsafe and he was treating me, in my perception, as a "problem" he had to fix quick so he could go on vacation, I got fed up and gave up any illusions about him. He kept telling me I was "safe" and I was not feeling safe at all. He said if I could just feel safe enough in his office the bad feelings would just go away. If only I could feel safe enough and I couldn't. He seemed annoyed and kept pushing me to feel "safe". But, doesn't he know you just can't make happen especially when in a crisis you have never experienced before. That is worst I have ever felt. And, no one understood. So, I had to face that I was truly alone. All I had was myself. So, I decided to survive and just take care of me. He obviously has his own life. I cannot look to him for the "help" I thought was there. It's his job. He will never love me. So, on I go. I'll use him for what he can give me and turn my back on what I thought was there. I feel it as getting tough...in a sort of good way. Not relying so much on his perception of me. I will rely on my perceptions of me. He may have an opinion but he no longer has the old power. It is a loss but I didn't cause it. I am simply dealing with what is. So, he can keep his stingy love and give it to others. I will have to be the one to love me. Yes, I am still angry. I see him differently and that's good and bad. Widget

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... emmanuel98

Posted by Dinah on August 15, 2010, at 12:20:29

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by emmanuel98 on August 13, 2010, at 21:53:50

> My T said I didn't love him because I didn't really know him. I told him I loved him the way my daughter loved me. That's not love, he said, that's dependence. Love means putting another's needs before your own. That's not what therapy is about.

That seems like such a narrow definition of love. I think kids can love their parents. Certainly if something happens to their parents, kids who loved their parents don't forget all about them and attach to the next person who can meet their needs. You can be dependent and hate your parents. You can be dependent and love your parents. Kids often want parents to be happy, and a good number of them leave their own needs unmet while trying to do what they think is best for their parents.

That's like saying dogs don't really love us, because they're dependent on us. I don't believe that. Because they don't always love us, contrary to popular belief. So if some do, why is that love not love at all?

It's a different *kind* of love than the love between a mature loving couple, certainly. But love it is.

It's a bit more to the point that you don't really know him. Would you still love him if you found out he was a political extremist in the extreme opposite yours? If you found out he hated dogs? That he was supremely selfish to his family members? There is no real way of knowing our therapists, outside their therapy selves.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by olivia12 on August 15, 2010, at 20:06:34

In reply to T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by LostPirate on August 12, 2010, at 18:31:34

Are you guys referring to your therapists? I am lost in this thread--please help? Thanks.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings...

Posted by emmanuel98 on August 15, 2010, at 20:25:01

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings... emmanuel98, posted by Dinah on August 15, 2010, at 12:20:29

Over the years, I've come to know a lot about him. He shares my politics. He shares my taste in books, music and movies. He is far more ethical than many psychiatrists. I feel I truly love him. He thinks I idealize him, which I do.

He has also said, when I tell him I love him, that there's a way in which he loves me too. He has also said, he doesn't love me in the same way.

So it's complicated. We've had an intense and powerful relationship. But he maintains excellent boundaries and is proud of this and disgusted by therapists who violate boundaries.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... emmanuel98

Posted by Dinah on August 15, 2010, at 22:31:30

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by emmanuel98 on August 15, 2010, at 20:25:01

Ah, well then it sounds as if he does acknowledge therapy love. Maybe he was talking about the other sort of love.

I agree that boundaries are in place to protect the client, and that good boundaries are important in a therapeutic relationship. I'm glad you had such an ethical therapist.

 

Re: T's + daughters + weddings... olivia12

Posted by Dinah on August 15, 2010, at 22:58:28

In reply to Re: T's + daughters + weddings..., posted by olivia12 on August 15, 2010, at 20:06:34

Yes, we're talking about our therapists. :)


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