Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 954254

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 12, 2010, at 19:18:43

Hi all,

I've been struggling with depression and anxiety for about 7 years now. I'm doing therapy for about 3 years, and recently stopped medication. I'm 26.

At this point, despite ordinary things in life are ok, I just feel I possibly won't be able to bear with loneliness and the memories of my recent past. Psychoanalysis just seemed to kill what was left of my self-esteem. I don't think I'm depressed, but being conscious of my own reality and losses seems too overwhelming. I really feel like... the things I used to think that were good in my personality only turned to be seen as defects caused by growing up in a very troubled family.

I experimented a point in life that nothing really bothered me and basically I didn't feel emotions (I was on ADs). But is it worth living like this? Do you have to give up on your personality and memories in order not to feel the pain?

I wonder maybe I should follow some spiritual path, to try to see my life in a different way.

Can anyone share some thoughts?

Thank you,

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by violette on July 12, 2010, at 20:29:13

In reply to Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by ralphrost2 on July 12, 2010, at 19:18:43

Hi Ralph,

Sorry to hear you are so down :(

In terms of life after psychoanalysis--it sounds like you aren't done yet (apologies if I'm stating the obvious). Are you currently discussing termination with your T or something? The process could take another 2 years or so...but I understand it can be difficult to be patient.

I'm not in conventional analysis (3 x week/couch) but psychodynamic (1 x a week/face-to-face)...so I'm not sure which you are referring to...But there are alot of the same concepts involved and I've read much about it as it all seems fascinating to me.

I don't have much advice, I can only tell you my experience as it might give you another perspective concerning your situation. What I do see as immensely positive here-is that you are so young. I'm middle-aged now, but only started psychodynamic therapy a year ago. I was already 'broken' when I got there-similar to how you have described your situation. Previous CBT therapies did not help.

I think in general, when we stop using denial, repression, and all the other defenses--we mourn the loss of that former self. The self that was (emotionally) unaware of all the crap, and this is not uncommon. I can tell you that I truly believe that reality eventually breaks through your conscious had you not been in analysis anyway. It sort of takes you by surprise, yet it is can be a slow erosion of defenses that ends up as depression. Either way, it's good to hear you are going through this at such a young age (wish I had).

And while your experience is really unpleasant at the moment, after working on integrating all the negative memories and experiences, you eventually build a new, more authentic, content self. It's a slow process to build yourself up. The end result-inner peace.

I wrote about this on another thread-I'm starting to 'find' that I actually still have that self-confidence within me; it was just eventually overtaken by the repressed emotions that fought to be addressed. Now that I am accepting and integrating those negative parts, in a positive way, I'm beginning to experience more direct benefits from my therapy.

If your interested, here's the thread:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100628/msgs/953677.html

It seems similar to what you are describing; hope this helps. I'd hang in there as it seems you have some more work to do. And it really will pay off someday.

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 13:25:38

In reply to Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by ralphrost2 on July 12, 2010, at 19:18:43

Oh, Ralph, just wanted to clarify...I had said earlier I was 'broken' before I got to therapy..broken meaning, most of my defense mechanisms were already gone by the time I got to psychodyamic therapy-which included the self esteem I was previously able to sustain for various reasons (major repression for one).

You said you had ongoing depression and anxiety before analysis, and I did too. But since you mentioned having 'no self-esteem' after analysis, I thought about it more and wondered if your analyst had sort of tore down your defense mechanisms as part of your therapy, but you haven't yet worked on building up yet? Maybe it is happening too quickly, leaving you less resources and time with which to adapt.

Could you consider taking an AD again to help cope? I might have at the start of therapy if I found one that I liked, but it turns out I no longer need an AD with therapy going well. I'm not completely relapsed from depression issues, but its mostly gone. I do take benzos for anxiety though, but not every day.

Since I mentioned feeling the benefits after just a year, I didn't want you to feel there was something wrong if you were not feeling that after 2+ years. It's just that I had hardly any defense mechanisms left at the time I found this T, while you may have still had some intact. Of course, defenses are useful and never completely go away, although some are much healthier than others as you know.

Really, it might be best to continue to work through this stuff now-as painful as it is-my T told me after his 35 some years of experiences, patients' mental health tends to get worse as they get older.

:)

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 14:07:21

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 13:25:38

Hi violette,

Thanks again for your kind post. I think you are really right guessing that my therapist (a female) tried to take down my defenses. I felt she was kind of skeptic/cynic exactly when I was celebrating that my intellect/memory was back. It's about 4 years that I have been feeling really mentally impaired... so I couldn't believe she was acting cynic regarding something I cared so much about.

But I admit that maybe I was starting to follow the same path to try to escape reality (rationalizing, fantasizing). I tend to go from apathetic to highly mental, so I rarely stay in a range that allows me to feel emotions normally... I guess that would be too overwhelming.

I rarely remember dreams, so my therapist says I seem to have pretty strong defenses.

I hope I'm able to keep using just benzos, violette. I feel that ADs are really powerful and usually mess things further up. Don't know if you have the same kind of experience.

Peace

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 17:44:09

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 14:07:21

Well maybe her cynicism was to remind you of your rationalization defense?...though I don't fully understand about being skeptic or less than positive about it in some way-if it was a sign you were feeling better..

Rationalization has been a huge defense for me, and one of the few I have left, so I totally understand. But it's not as bad as some of the others so I still use it, but T doesn't really let me do it in the therapy room. Repressed dreams as well, don't remember ever having nightmares as a child.

As for ADs-yes, they screwed me up in some ways. I did need them at one point, but later was always prescribed them for anxiety so I did not appreciate having to deal with the side effects of taking them daily. It was a merry-go-round-either have no sex drive, gain weight, and feel tired and cognitively and emotionally dull or deal with anxiety. I also feel they prolonged my illness...Thankfully my T lets me take ativan or xanax and I haven't ran into tolerance problems.

I noticed my brain is getting more balanced with the intellect vs emotion, though I still go overboard w/one or the other at times. I think the more you work on this, Ralph, the more you'll adjust naturally, it takes time. Of course you don't want to let all your defenses go when working on tough issues--or it would be too overwhelming like you said, so I wouldn't worry too much about it right now as it is helping you cope with stuff that emerges from therapy. Hang in there :)

Btw-Having strong defenses may have once saved you from psychosis. My siblings, who seemed to not have dissociation or use rationalization as much both had total breakdowns. As an adult, the lower-level defenses wear you down and don't hold up...but hopefully you can recognize how your 'strong' defenses once served a good purpose while you deal with their loss...maybe try to celebrate them rather than mourn them so much, perhaps, while you slowly adapt with new, healthier defenses with the help of your T.

Take care!

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 17:58:24

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 14:07:21

I guess I'm turning into a double poster or something..

If you handle benzos ok, maybe something like Ritalin or Dextro would work for you, to pick you up a bit? Those didn't mess me up and can be taken on occasion. It seems after you build a tolerance, it feels like you are taking nothing..but you can notice the difference with mood and motivation when you don't take it. The withrdrawal is not bad either, but I know some people have a problem with that for some reason.

If I had to take an AD now, the only one I'd want to try are Tianeptine (Stablon) or Agomelatine (the melatonin one), but can't get them in the US. My T is pretty liberal, but I don't know if it's ethical for a doctor to oversee non-FDA approved meds. And being my T is very ethical, and now that I no longer need an AD, I never asked him.

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) violette

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 21:40:46

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 17:44:09

Hi violette,

It's really hard to know why she had such a reaction. I understand that it's possible that she even didn't carefully considered being cynic about my improvement. Maybe that was just her natural reaction. When I first started therapy, she was quite analytic and used to write every single thing down. Now it seems that she uses a more natural and talk-wise approach.

The problem is that I'm currently pretty lonely, so her opinion sounds all-important in my mind. I felt the need to smooth that feeling out thinking "maybe I'm just too hyper". And, of course, when we're more imaginative sometimes we start thinking stupid things. Guess you know the feeling.

Tomorrow I have an appointment with her, so let's feel how it goes. At one point I'll need to assume that I'm no longer sick and this is just my natural ups-and-downs... As I just got off a strong depression episode, that's still not so clear to me.

I liked your idea of taking a stimulant. Maybe if I feel I'm inevitably going down I'll consider that. Have you tried Bupropion? It was the AD that really picked me up when I was really unmotivated and mentally impaired. And the great Xanax is always at hand (very low dose like 0.25 or 0.5 mg).

Thank you, have a nice day!

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) violette

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 21:50:28

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by violette on July 13, 2010, at 17:58:24

Just so you don't feel alone being a double poster, I'll start another one ;)

A friend of mine told me he slowly trained himself to remember dreams. He said it's enough to relax (if that's necessary!) as soon as you wake up and try to catch some words or ideas that would bring the dream back. I tried once and it worked, but most of the times I wake up feeling somewhat tense, so I just get outta bed and go to work. Maybe that's a sign (tension) that I had a tough time processing emotions during night.

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) ralphrost2

Posted by violette on July 14, 2010, at 14:44:26

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) violette, posted by ralphrost2 on July 13, 2010, at 21:50:28

Wellbutrin worked good for me once...my T said it rarely works alone-w/o augment of another AD, though. But rarely doesn't mean never...

The tension you mentioned-Could it be possible that you are waking up in a state of fight or flight, even if more mild, and that's why you aren't remembering your dreams? Currently, my first conscious thought when I awaken is my T. :) And this is every day now-it's sort of embarassing...but true.

About the loss of self-esteem--Maybe you are coming out of 'denial' and having shame-based feelings? Again, from my experience and what I've read about others' experiences and in the literature--even if you were intellectually aware of 'how bad things were', if you didn't feel it and process it on the emotional level, you may have been in some form of denial. I'm not sure if I'm using that concept entirely correctly, but denial is one of the absolute worst defenses..though it serves a useful purpose in coping initially. (fwiw-I take back what I said about celebrating the loss of your former self and am thinking of that from another angle-instead, consider celebrating the loss of using denial as it is a step towards a healthier inner state.)

If you haven't had many Ts in the past you might not relate-but in reading your post, I was thinking how therapists always ask, at the end of the initial meeting, how you felt about your childhood. I think, people in some sort of denial tend to minimize it, saying it could have been worse, I survived, etc. Or maybe intellectually say it sucked, but not have the body language that parallels an emotionally-based response..This is only a guess-but I think maybe Ts do this to see whether or not you are in denial to assess if things are still unprocessed emotionally.

And this might not be true for you, but this is how it happened with me. My CBT therapists (though well meaning), along with the medications, kept me in denial longer...I never got better as the emotional garbage never got processed. There is a very good reason why insight-oriented Ts repeat in 20 different ways: "how did it make you feel?"....As much as people make fun of that, it has a very useful purpose...

Eventually, all the emotional garbage couldn't be repressed anymore. When I started to 'feel' how terrible my childhood actually was, and this was prior to seeing my current T, I got emotional flooding. It was awful. Flashbacks, nightmares, semi-hallucinations..panic attacks, etc. Well, this was when the loss of my self esteem-similar to how you described-was very apparent to me. It's basically, imo, formerly repressed shame-based feelings emerging from your unconsciousness, as opposed to what is 'depression' and alleviated with meds. Because growing up with abuse or neglect-whether overt or covert-causes toxic shame-an internalization of how parents related to us. And although we cover it up with various defense mechanisms, it is always there--knawing at your consciousness--until we work through it. That's also what I think leads to spiraling into a full depression sometimes...So maybe you are sort of in the middle right now....

Maybe you could consider this possibility? Imo, you might be coming out of a denial of some sorts and the repressed shame is surfacing fully, or perhaps more strongly...

I recently started to get some emotional flooding again, but put it aside, suppressed it, saving it (or bits of it) for processing later; also using rationalization to deal with it for now...which is also healthier than denial or repression, among other defenses...

If shame-based feelings are starting to surface in your case, this could be why your T is changing how she relates with you? When I was already in this state when I got to my T, he has been mirroring me with positive regard and acceptance to fill the gap from the lack of having my childhood narcissistic needs met, which has alleviated those shame-based feelings; providing the nurturing and love that my parents never gave me. Though Ts are different, maybe you are at that stage, or nearing that stage, in the therapeutic process now? And maybe you don't need the ADs, but now need that positive regard that comes from the reparative relationship with your T? Just some possiblities to think about...

It was nice talking with you and I hope you had a good session with your T! :)

(I don't know if I'm going to do a double post this time; instead, maybe the thread could be like those iq tests where you guess the next shape/outcome according to the pattern...) hehe

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by sigismund on July 15, 2010, at 23:07:24

In reply to Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by ralphrost2 on July 12, 2010, at 19:18:43

My experience of analysis and life after it cannot have been optimal....there wasn't that much life for me, or maybe I just couldn't bear it, but that's life I guess, though our kids are (currently) in good shape.

>I wonder maybe I should follow some spiritual path, to try to see my life in a different way.

Yes, of course you should, Ralph. You have some opportunities. I was able to listen to a teaching by some Rinpoche in a Tibetan Buddhist monastery in Kathmandu. It was absolutely lovely. Those Buddhists are crazy, I mean crazy good, about how the sense of identity arises out of a kind of greed, about how the desire for things in the world, or more especially (for me) the desire for an end to it all, was part of what was burning us up.

This is a particularly good and lucid book which I must get
"Foundations of Buddhism" by Rupert Gethin

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by sigismund on July 15, 2010, at 23:16:08

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by sigismund on July 15, 2010, at 23:07:24

This review, the most negative is outrageous

"The WORST book on this subject EVER
This review is from: The Foundations of Buddhism (OPUS) (Paperback)
This autor is writing about some other religion. Its the only explanation. Not one thing he says in the first 20 pages is factually correct. I stopped reading shortly after he says "The Gods gathered on the day the Buddha achieved enlightenment as if they knew something important was going to happen". All I could think was, "what gods?", because there are no gods in Buddhism. The very idea of a God or Gods goes against everything the Buddha ever taught.
The writing is dreadful. The author goes on and on giving dates as facts, only to turn around 2 sentences later and explain how those facts are disputed and probably wrong. He spent at least 5 pages talking about events 1500 years before Buddhism that had absolutely nothing to do with Buddhism itself.

I skimmed ahead and saw page after page after page listing date after date as if any of it was relevant, regardless of the Buddhas teaching about the poison arrow. If you know the Buddhas teaching of the poison arrow you will know what I mean. Those dates are irrelevant at best. The fact that there is no proof they are accurate is dangerous.

Do not buy this book. Buy "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula. It's generally considered the standard introduction to Buddhism in the west."


It was so lucid that I managed to understand dependent arising for a short time there.

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) sigismund

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 17, 2010, at 16:28:51

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by sigismund on July 15, 2010, at 23:07:24

Hi Sigismund,

I guess the truth that psychoanalysis gives us is just too harsh for any notion of spirituality. It basically kills the dignity of any behaviour.

I'm not sure that the things we learn in psychoanalysis can really help us. I think it only made the pain bigger.

I also think Buddhism has nice insights into how to live a decent and pain-free life. But one thing I still can't fit in my mind is the notion of abandoning wishes. Or maybe I'm just too young to think of that :)

To me helping people is maybe the only true spiritual path one might follow. I hope I find some comfort when I'm able to do that.

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) violette

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 17, 2010, at 17:03:46

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) ralphrost2, posted by violette on July 14, 2010, at 14:44:26

> About the loss of self-esteem--Maybe you are coming out of 'denial' and having shame-based feelings?

I think that the self-esteem issue has more to do with seeing that I lived most of my life creating coping strategies to avoid the pain. Like fantasies... and I didn't really face reality. So now there is a huge gap between people and me. I've been living very distant from people (in an emotional sense).

> Eventually, all the emotional garbage couldn't be repressed anymore. When I started to 'feel' how terrible my childhood actually was, and this was prior to seeing my current T, I got emotional flooding. It was awful. Flashbacks, nightmares, semi-hallucinations..panic attacks, etc. Well, this was when the loss of my self esteem-similar to how you described-was very apparent to me. It's basically, imo, formerly repressed shame-based feelings emerging from your unconsciousness, as opposed to what is 'depression' and alleviated with meds. Because growing up with abuse or neglect-whether overt or covert-causes toxic shame-an internalization of how parents related to us. And although we cover it up with various defense mechanisms, it is always there--knawing at your consciousness--until we work through it. That's also what I think leads to spiraling into a full depression sometimes...So maybe you are sort of in the middle right now....

I think you're right, violette. It's like each time I let feelings emerge (when I'm talking to someone for example) I feel mostly sad. How can we socialize being so negative and melancolic? And I'm often afraid of releasing feelings because I fear entering into a depression spiral, like you said. Maybe this has to be a very gradual process. And if you chose to face reality (as opposed to use meds) I guess there is no easy way.

Thank you. Have a nice weekend :)

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by violette on July 17, 2010, at 19:58:27

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) violette, posted by ralphrost2 on July 17, 2010, at 17:03:46

Hey Ralph,

"So now there is a huge gap between people and me. I've been living very distant from people (in an emotional sense)."

That could be depersonalization (sometimes described or thought of the numbness that goes with PTSD)...which also commonly coincides with anxiety disorders and with fantasy DMs that sort of develop as a result of your temperment.

"I think that the self-esteem issue has more to do with seeing that I lived most of my life creating coping strategies to avoid the pain. Like fantasies...and I didn't really face reality."

:(

I didn't have that experience and am unsure what to think about that except you are 'stuck' right now (duh, right?). My process, while I went through awful pain, now seems to be more like an awakening to me as I look back. An ongoing awakening that has given me new life energy (will) and hope. Thus I have no interest in going 'back' there-even to that state where I was functional-undepressed and outgoing. But as I said, I was feeling really badly, I mean close to a mental breakdown, by the time I got to T...

"It's like each time I let feelings emerge (when I'm talking to someone for example) I feel mostly sad. How can we socialize being so negative and melancolic?"

I'll tell you some things about my therapy, hoping it will help you in some way...I am still trying to regain my social life, but have other priorities to catch up on right now. But I'm feeling better now-starting to be naturally more social again and ease back into relations with my friends. It's working by itself as I am not 'trying'. I quit listening to the negative stuff that comes from my superego, which has been hugely beneficial to me. The release of my superego's grasp eventually came from T continually accepting me.

How it happened for me, how I came out of the despair: it was falling in love with my T after about 9-10 months into therapy. I was extremely fearful, but T gave me continuous reassurance, earned my trust, and worked with me in a way that enabled me to develop a secure attachment. I let go in some ways, went with the resistance instead of letting it get too out of hand. In the therapeutic process, 'therapy love' can lead to the ability to process/talk about things differently and leads to self-acceptance which 'grows' self-esteem.

It's really something you have to experience to grasp fully-and this is not something simply unique to me-but basically, the love is contagious somehow...as I feel it that way-it flows then grows...it gets internalized and grows outward, sort of infiltrates your way of thinking and spreads to the other areas of your whole life-bit by bit.

"And I'm often afraid of releasing feelings because I fear entering into a depression spiral, like you said."

I thought that was happening to me a few days ago-that I was spiraling into a depressive state again-but it totally disappeared. Still having anxiety issues and triggers, more unrelated to T, but I was totally worried about the same thing. Well, it didn't happen and now I feel even stronger after overcoming a brief potential spiral back to my previous state...It subsided on its own, resulting in a feeling of being much stronger than I was prior to that feeling.

Ts love is giving me strength now as since I had the in love feelings, I noticed how I keep getting stronger...It's only been less than a couple months when i noticed the love, but it really feels like a contagion here. In session, T doesn't tell me to make something positive out of a negative (doesn't direct my development of healthy DM's) - it's occuring on it's own. I noticed I've been turning negatives around to positives like crazy without thinking about it. It's not that I'm just using new DMs, it's an overall positiveness that is growing and strengthening me-it really came from Ts acceptance of me.

"Maybe this has to be a very gradual process."

I really think what helped me along (aside from T himself) was reading about object relations, self-psychology, attachment theory, etc. Though I initially used this more as a rationalization DM and protection (from T who I did not yet trust)--it ended up speeding up the process, I believe. I learned how psychoanalytic therapy focuses on the relationship between the T and patient, rather than 'being a recipient' of therapy, and found out all sorts of things about myself from reading. While I have felt guilty about being obsessive about it-now that my superego eased up--I realize how much it really did pay off. So here I go again, turning the situation to a positive...

Also, my T is eclectic and has adapted his methods, mannerisms, boundaries, etc., alongside changes with psychodynamic theories and from many years of experience. He keeps current with research, is truly dedicated to his job, curious, open minded, creative and individualizes therapy for his patients overall. And I see from what he says of other patients that he truly does care about us.

Although it's the case with other Ts, I came to realize how overall, psychodynamic Ts seem to have more personal qualities that I value, such as creativity, curiousity...that gives me more of a foundation of relating than prior Ts. I have high regard for my Ts personal characteristics and we get along great as '2 people' when we are not in therapy mode, having some common interests in philosophies, politics and other areas. Having a good match in a T is very, very important...Maybe consider if you and T are a good match, and your Ts level of experience and how you feel about her personal qualities.

Hopefully something I said can help you out. I understand how terrible you are feeling. If I (member of totally crazy family) could overcome this-you can too. You just need to get 'unstuck'-talk to your T about what you said here-see if T can help you get unstuck. Does your T know all these feelings? If not, I'd talk candidly about this and where the diretion of therapy is going.

I still have a difficult time discussion childhood pain, though better than at first, but seems since I really trusted T, I can now approach him directly and honestly with whatever feelings or concerns arise from our relationship. The discussions about the feelings about the relationship are what lead to discussions about those childhood feelings which produce insights, which leads to change. However, you have to have a strong alliance to begin with. If you do-I think you will get unstuck. If not, I'd re-examine it.

When you can open up, that therapy love just grows and grows...All I can tell you is to try to let go of fears a little with your T; work with the feelings and not against them...think of it as a relationship rather than being 'treated for therapy' and build up courage to discuss the feelings that do arise..I wonder if your T needs to give you more reassurance (as opposed to focusing on your resistances) as you are still very fearful with opening up. Ts doing this is partly how I came to trust him. Some psychodynamic Ts will frown on reassurance.

However, if you don't ever get to that level of trust-the resistances will not release-you will be instead, stuck...I'd talk to your T about reassurance if she will enable you to talk from your unemotional side too. If your T is too rigid with her methods either out of habit or from beliefs, that could be contributing.

I probably won't be sticking around here much anymore, but if I don't run into you somewhere else, take good care and please hang in there.

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) ralphrost2

Posted by sigismund on July 18, 2010, at 1:38:44

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) sigismund, posted by ralphrost2 on July 17, 2010, at 16:28:51

>I think that the self-esteem issue has more to do with seeing that I lived most of my life creating coping strategies to avoid the pain. Like fantasies...and I didn't really face reality.

You don't think that's a bit stern? Don't analysts talk about the *need* for defences?
You would not remember Primal Therapy, I don't imagine it exists now, but the idea was to feel the pain, which you were encouraged to do by screaming.
Just ridiculous (IMO). John Lennon did it, and this (good) song came out of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTkc1aKAVYY

The main thing I had to deal with in therapy was acceptance which, as far as I ever manged to grasp, was about my need to control other people.

The Rinpoche said to us we should avoid the things that made us feel bad (or something).....that would turn me into a bloody hermit.

>one thing I still can't fit in my mind is the notion of abandoning wishes

Not only that, you are to avoid comparisons, of anyone, of past and future. Would that stop you thinking?

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by sigismund on July 18, 2010, at 1:52:35

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by violette on July 17, 2010, at 19:58:27

>I still have a difficult time discussion childhood pain, though better than at first, but seems since I really trusted T, I can now approach him directly and honestly with whatever feelings or concerns arise from our relationship. The discussions about the feelings about the relationship are what lead to discussions about those childhood feelings which produce insights, which leads to change.

I'm meant to be at a party, but the thought itself is depressing and I will only go if I feel obliged enough, but meanwhile, thinking about conversations, I have some of the best conversations at Pilates where we just yack on, in the course of which we talked about anorexia and I surprised myself by saying that I could understand it because when I was 11 I tried to starve myself to death and managed to give myself pneumonia in the process.
Is it really so complicated? Can't you just find people who like you as you are?

That's more addressed to Ralph than to Violette (great post, btw).

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 21, 2010, at 6:21:31

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger) ralphrost2, posted by sigismund on July 18, 2010, at 1:38:44

>You don't think that's a bit stern? Don't analysts talk about the *need* for defences?

My analyst is trying to encourage me to avoid fantasizing too much and try to really get in touch with people. I'm still not sure why I avoid social settings. I do have some friends, though.

Maybe it has to do with fear of rejection. Or fear of exposing some weakness. It's not clear to me yet.

About Primal Therapy, I've heard of it because I read that some Tears for Fears songs were inspired by Primal Therapy. I really like their songs, and I think the lyrics are very meaningful.

>Can't you just find people who like you as you are?

I guess I'm still trying to change myself, so maybe (as you said) I have to work on acceptance first. Maybe then things will get easier?

Thank you

Ralph

 

Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger)

Posted by ralphrost2 on July 21, 2010, at 6:38:47

In reply to Re: Is there life after psychoanalysis? (trigger), posted by violette on July 17, 2010, at 19:58:27

Hi violette,

Things got better here. I'll be patient with the whole process, despite the occasional despair. I trust my T enough to feel I can rely on her experience and care. It's really a great feeling when you realize how people can make a difference on your life. To be this was not so natural, because of parental rejection issues.

Thanks for your kind insights

Ralph


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