Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 803663

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keeping us in mind...

Posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 18:25:22

As the new year begins, I notice, here, long-time posters who have made wonderful gains in their therapy and their lives, and also those who are just in the midst of their struggles. I recently read a book written by my own therapist. It ends on just the note that has been so dominant in our hours together, so I will quote the final paragraph of it.

"At its most existential level,the therapist offers a relationship which creates both the therapist and the patient. For fifty minutes,the world changes; each is the center of the other's universe To paraphrase Karl Jasper, the doctor is the patient' s fate. But the therapist who has worked for years with the same patient knows that the patient is his or her fate as well Therapist and patient define each other; each, alone, is one self too few."

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by lovelorn on January 1, 2008, at 18:36:23

In reply to keeping us in mind..., posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 18:25:22

That is an interesting passage, twinleaf. Makes me ponder. I wonder how we would go about defining one another, how that is so since the 'selves' we present in therapy, both patient and therapist, is so limited. I certainly agree with the 50 minutes each become the center's of the other's universe. It really is that focussed during that time at the task at hand, at least I always feel that.

Will think on that defining one another part.

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by muffled on January 1, 2008, at 19:18:00

In reply to keeping us in mind..., posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 18:25:22

> "At its most existential level,the therapist offers a relationship which creates both the therapist and the patient. For fifty minutes,the world changes; each is the center of the other's universe To paraphrase Karl Jasper, the doctor is the patient' s fate. But the therapist who has worked for years with the same patient knows that the patient is his or her fate as well Therapist and patient define each other; each, alone, is one self too few."

*way cool.
Thats a nice post to read.
Our T's would proly get along great!
My T says similiar things.
"My life is also touched and changed in very good ways as I share the journey of growth, and yes sometimes suffering."
She says stuff like she honoured to share my journey w/me.
Ugh. I dunno, LOL, I think she kinda stretching it a bit!....ROFL.
I think I oughtta win a prize for most annoying client!!!
But anyhow, she sticks w/me.
Amazing.
((( T )))

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by rskontos on January 1, 2008, at 19:28:21

In reply to keeping us in mind..., posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 18:25:22

Twinleaf, my new doc told me he knew for me that he was my only ally and that right now he knew how important he was in my life. He was so right and I was so astonished how he grasped this so quickly. This was our second meeting. He knew I had never told anyone, not my husband of 20 years, no one, the things I had started telling him. He was astonished that I had done so well in my life. NOw I am not sure I have done well but he thinks I have. I think the level of dissociation has cost me alot but anyway, the point is in this stage of my life he is my fate for how I fare from this point on, and I can see that "alone is one self too few" for me. I can't speak for him as I am not sure how I can impact his life but i am hoping he can impact mine. I am allowing a this hope to live for now....thank you for this quote.

bless you in this new year.
rsk

 

Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos

Posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 23:08:00

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by rskontos on January 1, 2008, at 19:28:21

It's so good to hear that you have made such a wonderful and immediate connection with your new therapist! It seems almost miraculous that you found him, and that you and he knew right away that he could help you. We can't ever know, I guess, what we mean to our therapists, but I can give another quote from my therapist's book on the subject. He describes the therapist's role this way: "The therapist offers a real relationship, yet goes about the business of being a therapist- of being simultaneously active and reflective, involved and detached, participating and observing, passionate and rational, close and distant- in a harmonious dialectic". There! That's all there is to it!

 

Re: keeping us in mind... muffled

Posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 23:14:02

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by muffled on January 1, 2008, at 19:18:00

She sounds really great. She couldn't say that if it weren't true- because you'd know she wasn't being honest right away. Mine is a little more self-contained than yours, but he takes a lot of care to always be honest, even about the tiniest little things.

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by Daisym on January 2, 2008, at 2:02:18

In reply to keeping us in mind..., posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 18:25:22

How was it to read a book written about therapy by your own therapist? It sounds like he writes in a way that would feel very kind and satisfying but I can't helping thinking, knowing me, that I'd be looking for "hints" that would show me how to be his best patient ever. *sigh* You'd think I'd get over this fear of doing something in therapy that will cause him to leave but I haven't yet.

 

Re: keeping us in mind...

Posted by Wittgenstein on January 2, 2008, at 3:18:59

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by Daisym on January 2, 2008, at 2:02:18

Thanks for this - the quotes were powerful and reassuring to me - I've been full of anxiety and worries the last week from over-analysing the last months of therapy.

Daisy, I've read a couple of my therapist's books. He's commented before why I feel I have to try to be the perfect patient - again I fear that any session he might 'come clean' and tell me he can't stand me and I have to go elsewhere. If anything the books have helped a little against this as I realise his other patients aren't perfect either, as I had assumed.

Witti

 

Re: keeping us in mind... Daisym

Posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 10:43:55

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by Daisym on January 2, 2008, at 2:02:18

Hi Daisy! The book is about doing psychoanalytic therapy with patients who have had psychotic breakdowns, which he wrote when he was a staff psychiatrist at a psychiatric hospital which gave intensive long-term care to seriously ill patients. It follows their paths as they recover and move into healthier and more complex ways of relating to their therapists- and to the other people in their lives. Somehow,reading it didn't trigger off feelings of jealousy, or ideas of how to be the perfect patient, although I have certainly had those feelings in the past- not with this therapist so much, but with the previous one. In the book, four patients were described in detail, but because they were struggling to emerge from psychoses, it was difficult to identify with them, or to feel in competition with them.

I guess my motive in reading his book was a desire to know him a little better. As I was reading, I kept thinking, "Yes! That sounds just like him!" It served to put into words what I already knew, but hadn't formulated verbally very well. Now, I'm finding that his words, printed out, are like a snapshot of him that I can turn to if I feel I'm losing my connection to him in between sessions. They seem comforting and consoling. With him, the whole transference is moderated, because you can feel the combination of passion and reserve, participation and observation, humility and dedication at almost every moment.

With the previous analyst, there was much more close involvement and emotion on his part, as well as on mine. I know you know how terribly that ended! I've since learned that I'm not the only one to have had that happen. He is considered (in the profession) to be prone to having difficulties with countertransference, and also to tend to let personal problems enter into his therapeutic relationships. Knowing I'm not the only one helps me on my journey to believing that what happened was not my fault.

You have to really appreciate an analyst, like mine, who, in this era of 45 minute sessions, recently went back to 50-minute ones, because 45 minutes "just didn't seem long enough"!

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by annierose on January 2, 2008, at 17:28:38

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... Daisym, posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 10:43:55

I loved your thread title. Prior to my therapist Christmas vacation, I asked her, "Will you hold me in mind?". Such an innocent and difficult question to ask although she answered quickly, "Of course!".

I would love to read a book written by my therapist - she hasn't published one. I agree, I think it would help me to know her more - even though she always says, "but you know me already". There seems to be something tangible in holding a published piece that says "this is from my therapist's pen and here is what she thinks about xyz". I would like that feeling. Of course, I don't want to read it if it counters my existing frame of reference.

I might be repeating myself here - but my therapist is of the 45 minute session school. I agree with your new t, "it just doesn't seem long enough". I think a lot of work could get done in those missing five minutes. Sigh.

Did you tell your therapist that you read his book?

 

Re: keeping us in mind... annierose

Posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 17:50:18

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by annierose on January 2, 2008, at 17:28:38

No, Annie, I haven't. I was just thinking,as I wrote this, that I am readily disclosing this to everyone in Babble, but have managed to avoid telling him. Guess I better 'fess up on Friday!

The "keeping in mind" seems so important. My analyst told me that he had a stomach bug last time we met, and that he had debated with himself whether or not to come in to work, as he was concerned that he might be distracted and not able to keep his patients fully in mind every moment. He decided to try, but wanted to know whether I felt that he might not be fully present. As it turned out, I felt he was just as present as he always is.

It seems so nice that you are able to ask her to keep you in mind during breaks.

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 19:38:19

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos, posted by twinleaf on January 1, 2008, at 23:08:00

Twineleaf, today I had another session with mine and it went well. He told me that me staying connected to him during this initial time was of the most utmost importance. He said we must meet as often as possible and it is my call. If I need him, I can call in to schedule the meeting sooner, or call him to talk by phone or email if I would like. He also wants me to bring a tape recorder so I can record certain things he is saying so I can play with I need to to reaffirm certain things he thinks I need to hear when I need to reaffirm who exactly he is to me. Not the bad mother I am currently seeing him as. It truly is a miracle I found him. He said to me today when I can see him for who he really is, not projecting who my parts think he is then I am on my way to real recovery and to being well. He said you will know you are on your way when you can at least see me as a good parent versus a bad one like you are now because that is why all your "inners parts" are working so hard to keep you from coming to meet with me. It was a great session, I stood firm said what I needed to and I have told him in three session more than I ever told the other T in 9 months. Says alot about him too I think. he is all those things active, refective, involved, detached, participating, observing, passionate and rational, close and distant. It is hard to imagine to be all those things at once but it can be and be good. I do feel he can help me. And I can finally be helped. He did warn me it would get messy at times. But it would work out in the end. I am enjoying these quotes. Thanks for them.

rsk

 

Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos

Posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 20:34:06

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 19:38:19

What has happened just couldn't be more wonderful. There can't be many therapists who can understand dissociative disorders as well as yours does, and who can help you begin to form a new and trusting attachment so quickly. How amazing that you have told him more in three sessions than you told the other one in nine months. I'm sure there will be messy, very hard times, but,to quote some well-known analyst I read about recently, "God spare me an analysis that goes smoothly!"

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by RealMe on January 2, 2008, at 20:58:52

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos, posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 20:34:06

It is no surprise to me that both of you, rskontos and twinleaf have great therapists. They trained at the same place!! I know how good they can be from there.

RealMe

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by sunnydays on January 2, 2008, at 22:45:25

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos, posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 20:34:06

I hope my therapist is keeping me in mind while I am on break. Unfortunately, I bet I am absent from his mind far more than I would like to be! The real test comes tomorrow... will he remember to call me? I gave him a reminder call today like he suggested last week, so hopefully he will remember. But I do know that I don't think I would like to read a book he wrote. I think I would read waaaaay too much into every single sentence, and I'm sure there would be many things he would say that I would not want to know. Or that I would interpret the wrong way. Or something like that. Good thing I'm in no danger of my T ever writing a book!

I like it when I know my T is really focused on me. One time when he wasn't I got really mad at him as I left. I wasn't really aware of it at the time except that I wanted to storm out of his office before the session was over. But afterwards I figured out it was mad. I told him at the next session and it was really interesting. He said that of course if I felt like he had his own agenda and wasn't listening to what was true for me I would be mad - I'm paying him to be fully present and to pay attention to my truth, and that it was a healthy adult response to get mad if I didn't feel I was getting that.

He was almost delighted (I often notice him hiding a smile if I admit to being angry about something - we've been working on allowing myself to be angry for a while). He said that it was the little girl part that was afraid she would get abandoned if I got mad - afraid of some terrible repercussion. And I really could feel it because when I was wanting to storm out I sat there in tears and sobbed that I didn't want to leave. It's so hard to have those conflicting feelings at the same time.

Anyway, I'm rambling on and on about me, but hopefully there's something coherent and thoughtful in there.

sunnydays

 

Re: keeping us in mind... RealMe

Posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 23:13:07

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by RealMe on January 2, 2008, at 20:58:52

Hi RealMe! Nice to see you! Yes, I have tremendous respect- awe almost- for what mine is doing. And I feel the same, from what I've seen here, about the one you found for rsk. How that all came about, so quickly and powerfully, is just stunning. There's probably no better place in the world to have been trained than Menninger's.

 

Re: keeping us in mind... sunnydays

Posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 23:22:28

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf, posted by sunnydays on January 2, 2008, at 22:45:25

Hi Sunny. You gave such a good example of how we can have different, opposing feelings going on at the same time- being mad and feeling terrified of being rejected, wanting to storm out, but sitting there sobbing and wishing so hard to be understood and held in mind better. I certainly have all of those a lot of the time, too. They are very uncomfortable to have at the same time! I do find that when I look in my therapist's eyes and realize that he is holding me wholeheartedly in his mind, the pain eases a lot, aqnd I become much more comfortable with the full range of my feelings.

 

Re: keeping us in mind... twinleaf

Posted by rskontos on January 3, 2008, at 17:40:30

In reply to Re: keeping us in mind... rskontos, posted by twinleaf on January 2, 2008, at 20:34:06

You know Twinleaf, until this doc I don't think I would have been able to comprehend this last quote at all. Now I can as I can see some light at the end of tunnel and prior to him I could not fathom it.....now that is truly something too.

Keep those quotes a'cummin'. rsk


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