Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 803833

Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Walk right in

Posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 16:28:24

This is a common pattern with me.

Here is the story....

I needed a lead light window fixed. I found someone and we talked about politics (sigh) and then we talked about price, and she said $100 ph, and of course I didn't miss a beat, I just acted like that was OK, and maybe it was. I mean, who was I to say? I was just pleased to be able to talk and make the deal without cracking up. We had the idea that it would take a few hours. 3.5 hours might have been mentioned. So then she rings up and says 'I've fixed it and it's 5 hours, so $500. When would you like to pick it up?' And I completely panic, or rather I go very strange, I can't think, it sounds like an awful lot for a little bit of lead light. And so I get into this terrible state where I can't think, where I'm actually really frightened (why? of what?) like she is going to come and take revenge on me, but I think 'I can't pay $500. It's just too much. I am *never* going to allow myself to get into the situation again'. So OK, I feel really threatened. All I really want to do is (well, if not) please her (then appease her).

So then I can't sleep after 1pm.
I await our conversation with dread and helplessness.
How can I be so hopeless?

Of course I used to much more vulnerable. Once this sort of conversation (with anyone who felt like it) was possible with me.

'I need some money.'
'I don't have any on me.'
'No problem, we can go to an ATM.'
'I don't really have enough to spare you any.'
'I need it and I'm counting on it. You said I could have some.'
'I'm sorry to have misled you.'
And so on.

 

Re: Walk right in Sigismund

Posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 18:47:26

In reply to Walk right in, posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 16:28:24

Oh Sigismund I have done the same thing so many times too. I would not have been so brave and I would have just charged the $500 and then spent so much time beating up on myself. Or, I would have switched and who knows the angry one inside my head would have gone over there and gone off on that girl and that would have been bad news. I feel for you as I have put myself in this same position so many times.

I ask myself why and could ask my new pdoc Dr. X and his answer would be because they make us feel like a little kid that has done wrong maybe. I wonder why we can be reduced so quickly to that little kid state and our adult state can be erased so fast.

I wish I could help you with this, maybe just knowing you aren't the only one will make you feel somewhat better......
rsk

 

Sense of self rskontos

Posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 19:36:03

In reply to Re: Walk right in Sigismund, posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 18:47:26

If you were to ask me what possessed me to engage this woman @$100ph, I'd reply that at the time (I remember thinking this!) her fees seemed a guarantee of skilled and rapid work (win-win situation!).

We followed up the payment arrangements with me giving her my speel on shamelessness over a cup of coffee.

My T used to say so often that I'd gone into her or whoever.
I couldn't understand what she said, not really.

People sometimes say that they want to impart values to their children.
I've never worried about that much with my kids. I want them to have a stable sense of self.

 

Re: Sense of self

Posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 19:41:19

In reply to Sense of self rskontos, posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 19:36:03

Sigismund, well I hope that it is GREAT work and that in the end you will be so happy with the new work that it really will be worth it after all. My H will tell you he doesn't mind paying alot when he loves the final product. So if it looks great then it is ok.

What did she say about shamelessness over the coffee?

rsk

 

Re: Sense of self

Posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 20:12:57

In reply to Re: Sense of self, posted by rskontos on January 2, 2008, at 19:41:19

The talk from me would (no doubt) have been me saying we live in a time when people feel no shame in gratifying their sense of entitlement, and moving swiftly along, the way our elected representatives reflect the same, and the corporate stranglehold over our minds, that sort of thing.

We seemed to agree on all this.

Oh my goodness.

 

Re: Sense of self Sigismund

Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2008, at 22:59:20

In reply to Sense of self rskontos, posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 19:36:03

> People sometimes say that they want to impart values to their children.
> I've never worried about that much with my kids. I want them to have a stable sense of self.
>
>

Aren't values part of a stable sense of self? Not that I'm any expert, since my particular pathology leaves me with a very choppy, disconnected, sense of who I am. But when I get scared by that, a sense of what my values are is one of the things that most helps to ground me.

 

Loss of a sense of self Dinah

Posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 23:20:55

In reply to Re: Sense of self Sigismund, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2008, at 22:59:20

>Aren't values part of a stable sense of self? Not that I'm any expert, since my particular pathology leaves me with a very choppy, disconnected, sense of who I am. But when I get scared by that, a sense of what my values are is one of the things that most helps to ground me.

I don't *think* it's like that with me. I grew up in a family where it was impossible to be oneself and I've been very good at not being myself (not been very good at being myself)ever since. With one shrink we formulated the idea that with me it was like I was playing tennis from the wrong end of the court. Possibly it stems from a massive desire to protect someone somewhere for some reason once upon a time. Sometimes it's all very interesting (too interesting!), and uh, I had a tendency to do the Rimbaud destruction of personality thing.

But sometimes now I end up in places where I shouldn't be (so to speak) and the only way back is a kind of psychic storm that lasts a day or a week. Values don't help *me* get back, because if I'm away I don't really have any values.
I always fear that I'll end up like my mother in some TS Eliot nightmare saying 'But what should I do? What should I do?'

I once did a post on Self Esteem...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/esteem/20060921/msgs/692170.html
which attempted to deal with this from one angle.


I find the process of doing all this so exhausting that when I do get a handle on how things should work I'm inclined to be very dogmatic, because it has been so hard to acquire.

 

Re: Loss of a sense of self Sigismund

Posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 23:26:30

In reply to Loss of a sense of self Dinah, posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 23:20:55

>Possibly it stems from a massive desire to protect someone somewhere for some reason once upon a time.

Well, I suppose that's values in action.

The desire to mourn, at any rate, can be sublimated into an interest in history.

 

Re: Loss of a sense of self Sigismund

Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2008, at 23:48:55

In reply to Loss of a sense of self Dinah, posted by Sigismund on January 2, 2008, at 23:20:55

So of course I had to look up Rimbaud to see who he was. :) And while I clearly couldn't google a firm grasp of his essence, he sounds like a man who held on firmly to his personality, rather than destroying it. And certainly he had to have been a man of very firmly held and ferociously defended values? Perhaps not traditional values, but values nevertheless.

But maybe I'm not getting the point. I'm sadly mundane, and intellectual thoughts often fly by me.

I think maybe what you describe in your family is more not being allowed to develop your own values. Or not that exactly, since you say you learned the value of defending others? Hmmm.....

In the end, don't values come from the very deepest core of ourselves? Not rules, or beliefs even, but values? Isn't that why people react so strongly to attacks on those values? Maybe I'm not saying that right.

And of course values can evolve. I don't like to say change, because I'm not sure people change their values as they might their beliefs. But surely they evolve as we grow and learn? While remaining the core of who we are, since everything we are and do surely emanates from our core set of values?

Not the ones we're supposed to have, but the ones we really do have.

But maybe I'm confused. I'm often confused.

By the way, is sublimating your desire to mourn the best course of action for you? Perhaps I overvalue mourning.

 

Re: Loss of a sense of self Dinah

Posted by Sigismund on January 3, 2008, at 14:56:03

In reply to Re: Loss of a sense of self Sigismund, posted by Dinah on January 2, 2008, at 23:48:55

Reasonable acceptance and sensitivity go a long way in families to allow a stable sense of self.....that's values, I guess.

It was only later that I saw adults handle family conflict and difference in better ways.

Mainly by the adults showing an (unthreatened) interest in the thinking of their children.

 

Re: Loss of a sense of self Sigismund

Posted by Dinah on January 4, 2008, at 11:52:05

In reply to Re: Loss of a sense of self Dinah, posted by Sigismund on January 3, 2008, at 14:56:03

I guess most families have their own idiosyncratic forms of dysfunction. My family handled conflict horribly, with huge blowups and long held grudges. But each of my parents certainly showed an interest in my thinking, and encouraged me to think for myself at an early age. My father's family used to get mad at my mother for not just saying "NO. Because I said so!" and instead explaining to me *why* and allowing me to decide that the rule had a pretty good reason after all. They thought I was a spoiled and willful child. :) When I got old enough to develop reasonable critical thinking skills, my father spent hours and hours talking to me about everything under the sun. Or at least everything that interested him at all.

I'm sorry you didn't get that from your parents, and I'm glad you're giving it to your children. In the end, that's all we can do I suppose. Create in our families what we wished for in our families of origin.


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