Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 779897

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Re: Forced Termination and Hatred - Dori

Posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 16:03:17

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* ForeverWounded, posted by Dory on August 31, 2007, at 10:43:29

Hi Dori:

Thank you for taking the time to write me. I am sorry that you went through such a crappy forced termination, and over money to boot. That is REALLY hurtful. It is like saying - you are only worth this much (to me anyway.)

I am curious about this statement you made:

"It isn't your birthright to suffer for his poor decisions."

Are you sure it is not my birthright? It sure feels this way. And how can I NOT suffer from his poor decisions. I am already suffering from his poor decisions and only foresee that I will continue to suffer from his decision, poor or not. I do not see how it is avoidable.

"i agree that it's horrid and wrong for a T to do what he is doing. There are so many ways he could have helped you and i can't imagine why he would be so blind to your strong attachment. That was the one thing i did give my old T sh*t for... he should have"

I am a little unclear - do you think my strong attachment to him is wrong, or the way he is handling it?

Thank you for your help and encouragement. I want to go look for that poster that you mentioned now. I hope things are going better for you now.

Yours truly,

ForeverWounded

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* ForeverWounded

Posted by Quintal on August 31, 2007, at 16:29:06

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 15:06:31

Hi FW,

I do consider myself abnormal in many ways, extreme sensitivity/reactivity being one of them, but I know I'm not alone in this. I sometimes wonder how 'normal' people 'do it' - get along with each other, tolerate rejection, unfairness, injustice, and things like that, without exploding. Interpersonal Communication Therapy sounds interesting. I could do with some of that. Where do you get it?

Q

 

Re: Forced Termination - Dory ForeverWounded

Posted by Dory on August 31, 2007, at 22:34:24

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred - Dori, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 16:03:17

> "It isn't your birthright to suffer for his poor decisions."
>
> Are you sure it is not my birthright? It sure feels this way. And how can I NOT suffer from his poor decisions. I am already suffering from his poor decisions and only foresee that I will continue to suffer from his decision, poor or not. I do not see how it is avoidable.

i wish i had a way i could tell you that would divert the pain you are in. What i meant by that statement was not that this was avoidable, but that it was not deserved. Pain isn't your birthright, and even if something cannot be avoided it does not make it something you deserve. i hope i did not offend you.

> "i agree that it's horrid and wrong for a T to do what he is doing. There are so many ways he could have helped you and i can't imagine why he would be so blind to your strong attachment. That was the one thing i did give my old T sh*t for... he should have"
>
> I am a little unclear - do you think my strong attachment to him is wrong, or the way he is handling it?

oh god no.. your attachment is in NO way wrong. i am so sorry to have given you that idea. He has been blind if he hasn't understood it. He is handling it badly all around. i do hope that is more clear. i was trying to say that from your post it is very clear how powerfully attached you are, he surely must have known too... i just can't wrap my head around how or why he would either not know, or choose this path if he did. Make no mistake, i don't think you have done anything wrong at all.
>
> Thank you for your help and encouragement. I want to go look for that poster that you mentioned now. I hope things are going better for you now.
>
> Yours truly,
>
> ForeverWounded

generally yes, but immediately no. i am struggling through a painful issue with my T. it's going to be a long and very difficult weekend.

please accept my sincere apologies for any distress my words might have caused.

 

Re: Forced Termination - Even worse ForeverWounded

Posted by Dory on August 31, 2007, at 23:06:19

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Even worse, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 15:59:27

honestly i think he is having massive countertransference issues surrounding guilt/power. A statement like that would make me do the same thing.. back track... because it says that you have upset him, offended him or whatever and if you feel that way then he'll leave you even sooner. What it really says is that he has, for whatever reason, decided to not hold himself accountable for any of your pain or grief and that he is just tossing it back to you. It's mindboggling.

You have ***every right*** to be mad, sad, glad or any damn way you please, about this or anything else. Period. As long as he is your T you have ***every right*** to tell him exactly how you feel AND expect him to listen with acceptance. ANger is a reasonable reaction on your part and he is handling it badly. He is absolving himself of any responsibility or obligation to you.

He is human and we live in a real world, of course things change... and as much as i agree that i wish the world could prevent T's from leaving us, it does happen. And again, being angry is a perfectly understandable reaction. He should know that. There might be little he can do to less much of your pain and still make the choices he wants for his own life... i don't know the answer about that part... but he could be helping you through this by walking through the anger with you, and perhaps lessening it. He could be sharing in the grief of loss with you, showing some regret for the end of such a long relationship.

i can't understand and it makes *me* angry for you.. i can only imagine your anger.

i am going to suggest something, and please, it's well-meant.. there is something you can do to help yourself and care for yourself now and it seems you have to put that ahead of thoughts of him. Posting here, writing about it in any form is a good positive step. It externalizes. Write about how it makes you feel... think about that more than what he is doing. Make it about you, you deserve your attention and care. Also, write down the things you have gotten from therapy which have been positives, the lessons you learned and steps forward you made. Write about why. Those things are yours to keep and do not become invalid because he is behaving badly. Be gentle with yourself even if he is not.

i am so very sorry you are suffering.

 

Re: Forced Termination - Even worse

Posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 23:54:30

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Even worse ForeverWounded, posted by Dory on August 31, 2007, at 23:06:19

Thank you for sharing in my anger. It makes me feel validated. I have a hard time doing things just for me, especially since I feel so recently violated - made worthless.

For such a good therapist as he has been, why is he sucking so bad at termination?

I so wish I could show him this thread, but i feel like it would not go over well. He might become defensive or hurt or say that he can't see how his meeting with me is helping me and try to cut me short again. I don't get it - he has always been so consistent until now. Does he really feel that guilty or something?

What is wrong with him?

Yours truly,

ForeverWounded

 

Re: Forced Termination - Dory

Posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 23:59:08

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Dory ForeverWounded, posted by Dory on August 31, 2007, at 22:34:24

Dory:

I have a question about this statement. Maybe you can lend me some insight (oh and by the way, I wasn't upset by anything you said - I just had some questions. No harm, no foul. Thank you rather for your encouragement, support, and advice.) Anyway here is my question:

You said:

"your attachment is in NO way wrong. i am so sorry to have given you that idea. He has been blind if he hasn't understood it. He is handling it badly all around. i do hope that is more clear. i was trying to say that from your post it is very clear how powerfully attached you are, he surely must have known too... i just can't wrap my head around how or why he would either not know, or choose this path if he did. Make no mistake, i don't think you have done anything wrong at all."

So you think he hasn't understood the depth of my attachment? Can you explain why you think he is mishandling it or what "path" he has chosen that is indicative of his mishandling the attachment? I would like to know so that perhaps I can bring it up with him. I think you have the potential to see more clearly than I, since I am very emotionally involved in the situation, and you are a much more objective third party.

Can you please explain about how he is mishandling the super strong attachment?

I hope your weekend proves to be not sooo difficult.

Thanks again.

Forever Wounded

 

Re: Forced Termination - Even worse ForeverWounded

Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2007, at 9:48:48

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Even worse, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 23:54:30

Yes, I think he feels guilty. He's as much as said so when he said that he considered his current patients as a reason to say no to the new job.

I confess I don't understand why he can't continue to see a very few of his long term clients in his "free time". But perhaps the church has a rule against it, or perhaps his insurance runs out in November.

My therapist many years ago took a job where he had to go out of town frequently, thus missing many appointments. He said something totally idiotic like he thought it would be good for me, give me a chance to spread my wings. I told him when it was convenient to him, he thought weekly therapy was very important for me and when it wasn't convenient to him, he thought giving me a chance to fly was good for me. I told him that I realized that sometimes he needed to do things because it was in his best interests but wasn't in mine, and that was bad enough, but don't turn around and pretend it's in my best interests. To at least say that he knows this is not good for me, and while he has to do it, he's sorry that it's not good for me. And he lets me be angry with him.

It's a shame he isn't taking your honest expressions of anger better. He needs to do some reading on termination, I think, to learn what's well within the normal range of reactions, and the proper way to behave therapeutically.

 

Re: Forced Termination - Dory ForeverWounded

Posted by Dory on September 1, 2007, at 10:06:40

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Dory, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 23:59:08

ok, i'll do my best, but i am so removed from the situation that it's a difficult question, plus i am hearing your words, not many of his and i am getting your interpretations/perceptions mixed in. i will tell you what i *think* based on what you have said... best i can do. (i will say that you should be proud of yourself for trying to help yourself and to even consider bringing up further things with him.)

i do think he has misread the depth of your attachment. Given what you have said about your feelings and the length of the relationship, along with the self-abuse/etc since his decision, the only other option is that he is very cold. i don't get the impression from what you said about your connection to him that he has been cold to you. i could be mistaken.. when you think about the relationship over the time shared, what has been his attitude towards you? i seem to remember you talking about him making committments of not abandoning you... right?

so, making the assumption that you have felt the relationship to be a good one, a caring and genuine one, then i think he has totally misread your attachment. Now there is one thing i will say about that, and i don't mean to imply that anything is your *fault*, more that there is a *role* you play, as we all do, within the relationship. i don't know how you presented yourself to him... i don't know how open you have been about your feelings towards him, so there is a possibility that you have masked or hidden a lot from him deliberately or not. Part of his job is to probe that, particularly in a long relationship... IMO anyway. If the relationship works or "clicks" then there is an attachment that forms that is strong, that's pretty standard. He would have to know that much.

Perhaps he had thought that work had been done which placed you in a safer mindset... but that again would mean you were dealing with it together.

Right now my own T is just discovering how deep and strong my fear of abandonment is... he made a decision (which i think is a mistake to have done but that's another story) based on his best guess at my fear. That is how a T does it... their best guess based on what they see and hear.. they can't read minds or actually be in our heads. It's a probe and see sort of deal, in the beginning or during a new phase... then they see the impact and choose how to help, hopefully with as much of it being a joint decision as possible.

Without knowing anything about your sessions, i am making my best guess that the subject was not probed enough. My last T never ever brought it up. It was a short term process and i think he honestly thought he was preventing a deep attachment. The end result was a stronger one because i have a history of being pushed away and then working harder to gain that person's attention/affection/approval. Is that the same for you? i would expect that most T's with any amount of serious training would know to flesh out abandonment issues.

That is my rationale for feeling he has misread. If you've seen him for a long time, and you have been able to express such feeling in your first post to strangers, then i feel that it's likely you have given him indicators of your attachment but he missed the boat.. or he thought he had the boat docked and secured but was mistaken.

The path he has taken which is mishandling it? Oh my.. let me count the ways. He has obviously not taken enough time to address your connection and the loss of that connection. He has not counted on it being so strong. He has not, from your account, taken any steps to help you deal with your grief over the loss, or how to handle the obviously sticky aftermath (with him being there but not there for you). He hasn't adequately explained to you why he can't "fit you in every other week" as you said, or helped you deal with the feelings associated with that...ie, feeling unimportant and discarded (sp?). Given the quote you gave regarding him terminating early when you express anger, i think he is not handling his own feelings surrounding his decisions very well either. It is not productive nor fair to you to allow his feelings to flow over onto you... it's a breach of boundaries. A T is responsible for taking care of their own feelings and issues. If he feels guilt or whatever about his choices then he should not make them your issue. A statement like that provokes fear of abandonment, guilt of wrong-doing and creates a bad power dynamic.. it says "if you behave this way or that, i will leave you." It's a subtle threat IMO.

i won't even let my T talk about "outcome markers" as he calls them... goals even. i am too sensitive still about the idea that it will end and he will leave me. i **know** it will end someday, but if i talk about that now i will be too scared to do the work that needs to be done now.

i don't know how he told you, it sounded very sudden and abrupt. IMO, he should have started talking about how you would feel about separation and termination as soon as he even formed the idea that he might even want to change directions in his own life. As a T he should recognize the impact. That would give him a better idea of attachment and how to handle the termination. Then it should be a gentle process with much reassurance and care. In the case of strong attachment i believe that he should be showing more acceptance and care in the face of your anger and other feelings.

Whatever the cause, this ****is**** a loss for you. It's like a death and there is real grief, even in the best of worlds with resolved issues and all.

With him still being a part of your world (one of the problems with having a T being a part of your real life world in the first place) he should spend time talking about ways to cope with that. He could possibly have helped you find a new T and help you transition for example.

i'm not a T, so i can't come up with all the strategies or ways he could or should be doing this. But what strikes me most is his lack of empathy for your situation and his lack of acceptance for his part in it.

Your anger is obviously strong and raw. i am sure it would be hard to face it and not get defensive, but it's his job, whether he likes that or not.

i am basing a lot of what i say on his level of training. You said he was getting a doctorate? yes? There isn't generally any law or regulation as to who gets to hang the shingle "therapist" out on their door... so a lot of insight and training depends on that. Some people with less education and training make marvelous T's, and some with PhD's in psych can be the worst.

ok..i;ve rambled enough... short form:
* i don't think he has read your level of attachment or talked enough about it.
*i don't think he has handled the termination process well because he isn't showing empathy or care in the face of your reaction to the loss.
*He is being defensive and is not handling his own feelings well by making statements like the one you gave.
*statements like that can feel like a threat of abandonment and a judgement of how you feel
*he needs to help you grieve and find ways to cope

There. i hope that says what you asked somehow.

i don't know the answers to your anger... but i do know that it is OK that you feel it.


> I have a question about this statement. Maybe you can lend me some insight (oh and by the way, I wasn't upset by anything you said - I just had some questions. No harm, no foul. Thank you rather for your encouragement, support, and advice.) Anyway here is my question:

:o)

> You said:
>
> "your attachment is in NO way wrong. i am so sorry to have given you that idea. He has been blind if he hasn't understood it. He is handling it badly all around. i do hope that is more clear. i was trying to say that from your post it is very clear how powerfully attached you are, he surely must have known too... i just can't wrap my head around how or why he would either not know, or choose this path if he did. Make no mistake, i don't think you have done anything wrong at all."
>
> So you think he hasn't understood the depth of my attachment? Can you explain why you think he is mishandling it or what "path" he has chosen that is indicative of his mishandling the attachment? I would like to know so that perhaps I can bring it up with him. I think you have the potential to see more clearly than I, since I am very emotionally involved in the situation, and you are a much more objective third party.
>
> Can you please explain about how he is mishandling the super strong attachment?
>
> I hope your weekend proves to be not sooo difficult.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Forever Wounded

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*

Posted by Maria01 on September 1, 2007, at 10:39:02

In reply to Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 5:27:36

Wow. His actions are just....wrong. You have every right to feel the way you do, and I would encourage you to share with him what you had told us with respect to your feelings only if it feel safe for you to do so.
I went thru a forced termination last May when after a difficult session, the intern I was working with announced in the following session that "some of my stuff is triggering too much of her stuff"(technical term: countertransference), gave me about 20 minutes to discuss it, and I was out the door with a form letter from her and her supervisor. That was it. Min you, my "stuff" isn't too much at all in the grand scheme of things, so it's safe to assume she probably shouldn't even be practicing.

I was fortunate enough to find another T and work it thru with her. One thing that helped was some artwork: I had taken a copy of the term. letter, and made it look like a cookie-cutter form letter(which it was) and put all kinds of snarky comments on it. I was definitely bummed, but I didn't want the situation to get the best of me, or let some little intern's(she was actually middle-aged) crappy actions dictate how I felt about myself and the situation. That would have been giving it way too much power over me, and I'm stronger than that. The final coup de grace was getting invoiced for hours that were previously pro-bono. (this was a non-profit in my town that would occasionally do pro-bono work. I had lost my job as a vet assistant, and my Honda got stolen, so money was very tight).

I guess all I can offer is do whatever it will take to get this out of your system, short of self-destruction. Don't let this situation win out over everything else. Use the next couple of months to really vent your spleen about his; if he can't handle it, it's his problem. Hopefully, once the dust settles, you will find you are better off without him. My forced term. made me sadder and wiser, but I'm much better off; my prior T was just too inexperienced and emotionally unstable. She just needs to sit at home and play with her grandbabies and not practice. Sounds like your guy needs to be in a different field altogether, too.

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*

Posted by Deus_Abscondis on September 1, 2007, at 12:04:37

In reply to Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by ForeverWounded on August 31, 2007, at 5:27:36

FW,

sorry to feel your suffering. You are in the grip of torment. Time may bring about different feelings and you do have some more time with the therapist.

I had a therapist bring a long period of therapy to an end. I had on a previous occasion concluded a period with the same therapist. The two long periods of therapy were separated by a long interval.

I can't recall the details but I don't think I had any advanced notice and was informed in a session that this would be our last.

What struck me at the time and in retrospect was his reason offered. He simply said you need something (not someone) more 'supportive'. I was taken aback and asked what he meant and he simply reiterated 'supportive'. I then bit my tongue as he had ample opportunity to explain and didn't.

I can remember questioning myself - had I said something offensive, had I failed to make sufficient headway? I can recall saying at one point in the period that I felt we had plateaued but there were many sessions after that.

I can't say at the time I felt hostility towards him and thanked him for working with me.

Since then I have discovered that I have adult ADHD (inattentive). He had a specialist interest in child psychiatry and I wonder why he might not have picked up that I might have been ADHD. Indeed I don't think the possibility I had it was ever discussed.

His diagnosis was that I was primarily anxious and the depression I went to him with was secondary to the anxiety. He was totally against using any Benzo meds - none. I went along with this. At a point when I had bouts of severe agitated anxiety he did prescribe low doses of Mellaril (Thioridazine). He also reluctantly prescribed Prozac.

One thing he said has stuck in my mind over the years that is "no drug is going to help you".

In retrospect I feel some resentment towards him. I still feel that his reason of needing something more 'supportive' was empty. He could have advised that perhaps another therapist might advise me or was he being diplomatic and saying that I wasn't making enough of an effort to support myself or that in fact I didn't need something more supportive - that I would react positively against his reason and in doing so make my own support.

I have no idea. I was left hanging - partly through my not pressing him to be clearer.

I've always held some scepticism about the value of the therapy I had with him. He was the first therapist I had. While I liked him, I felt he had my interests at heart, I can't say I became 'attached' to him. His role was to help me help myself. I recall being charged missed appointments. Anxiety can really stuff up concentration and memory. I certainly didn't feel so attached to him having to pay the full non insured amount for missed sessions.

I've never really held the view that a therapist is going to be open about what they are thinking about me. It is a 'professional' relationship - any attachment feelings I thought were meant to be transient. I admired many things about him but I never considered my therapist a friend.

While he did help me gain some insight into myself I can't say in retrospect that I got a substantial improvement. Combined with the missed diagnosis of ADHD and the way the period of therapy was terminated It has left me a little resentful. I know a good deal about therapy and have studied it so I know how difficult it is to make diagnoses. He is after all human and I'm sure he was doing his best. I could have acted on my doubts and sought out another therapist for a second opinion or third opinion - I certainly do this for medical diagnoses.

One physician I went to on two occasions after moving locations put "not to be seen again" on my record. When I returned to the clinic I was informed by the administrator at the desk that the Dr doesn't want to see me and that I should find another one. This came totally out of the blue and she had a specialist report I wished follow up with her. Was it because I asked and argued for opioid analgesics for my pain or was it because on leaving she said 'god be with you' and I replied laughing 'but I'm an atheist'! ? People can be unpredictable.

FW, while you are still hurting this advice might seem odd but sit down and try and list some of the achievements and benefits from your therapy and compare it with the reasons you entered into therapy and the outcomes you wanted. These are YOUR achievements - you did the work the therapist only guided you - they are trained to do that - the anguish of the process is 99% yours, good therapists keep a safe professional distance from their clients but this is not to say they can't feel and care for you.

You may be surprised (as I was) that all of the effort one feels in terms of getting the therapist to know what you are on about, all of those intimate revelations can be communicated quite quickly to a new therapist as second time around you have been able to identify the salient points. Going through ones history all over again is a chore but new things might arise in re-telling it and having a new therapist focus on different angles.

We don't have control over other people and they are most likely to bring about suffering because we choose to invest in them. I only wish that some 35 years of my life hadn't been the way they were, that my ADHD (if that is really what I have) could have been diagnosed and treated earlier. Disappointment is understandable, lashing out in reaction in the short term is understandable - I've felt that, grief at loss is understandable but hatred is not an enabling emotion.

There are new opportunities ahead. Use your time to try to summarise with your therapist what you have learned and how this can help you move on.
There could be some good in what has happened. Your next therapist might be more effective.

I am now getting treatment that is helping including grieving for some 35 years of my life including failed work and relationships that might not have failed if I got the right advice and support earlier.

Best wishes

D

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*

Posted by RealMe on September 1, 2007, at 23:38:35

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by Maria01 on September 1, 2007, at 10:39:02

Maria

I had a student I supervised, young though, like your intern, and she ended up going off the deep end, and I am sorry about that, but she left an evaluation undone, and I had to try to pick up the pieces. Now she is emailing me for a letter of recommendation to go do her internship. I have not responded to her, but she emailed me again. So I think I need to let her know I can't recommend her. I worked with her around her stuff and got her to go see a pdoc and therapist, but in the end she bailed on me and did not finish her diaganostic practicum. I really don't think I can give her a recommendation as she was not being responsible. At least I can say that I took care of things before my LOA. And, I am not doing therapy with anyone right now as I think it best to wait until I have dealt with my csa. I know my limits.

People I saw on internship knew upfront I was only there for a year, and I made arrangements to transfer anyone who was still there in the hospital. We did sessions together with the new therapist before I left. People from my postdoc knew I was there for only two years, and again anyone I was seeing in therapy knew this upfront, and I made arrangements for transfer before I left. This is a different type of "forced" termination as it is not really termination if there is overlap with the new person. I just wish more people handled this better.

Yes termination can also be an issue for a therapist, and it would be best to address this with the therapist if possible.

I remember your situation Maria; it was awful, and you are right about the person. Perhaps she should not work doing therapy until she deals with her own issues. I won't go so far as to say she should never work with patients. She does, however, need to deal with her stuff if she is getting triggered by therapy with patients.

Maria, didn't you say you were a vet techician? If you haven't got a job, have you thought of going into business for yourself, taking care of people's animals at home. I would sure hire you in a flash as I have no one to take care of my cats if I go somewhere--Sigi needs his water treatments or whatever they are called, three times per week puting the water treatments under the skin. He is such a good boy and lets us stick the needle in him and take his treatments, and Freyja with her insulin shots twice a day. Our vet has just stopped boarding except for after surgery. We may try to get one of the vet techs to come and do it, but we really need someone to come and stay at our house as they eat different foods, and they should not eat each others food. One's food is high in protein (Freyja) and one's is low in protein (Sigi). Stress time.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Forced Termination - Dory

Posted by ForeverWounded on September 2, 2007, at 1:07:09

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Dory ForeverWounded, posted by Dory on September 1, 2007, at 10:06:40

Wow Dory. I want to write more but it's two a.m., for now I just want to say thank you for your excellent elaboration. I want to print it out and show it to my T. I feel like you really got a handle on the situation. Great insight.

Do you think that if I showed your post to my therapist that it has any chance of going over well?

Tanks again,

Forever Wounded

 

Re: Forced Termination - Dory ForeverWounded

Posted by Dory on September 2, 2007, at 16:34:39

In reply to Re: Forced Termination - Dory, posted by ForeverWounded on September 2, 2007, at 1:07:09

That made me laugh outloud. i don't know... you know him best. From his defensiveness now, who knows? If you do it's your doing ok? Please don't blame me if he has a set of kittens right there and then. haha..funny but not funny.

well... my best advice.. and remember, advice is cheap and easy and **has** to be true when you get it from a stranger over the internet right? But, personally.. i would take the parts that feel "right" to you out of what i said and write a letter in your own words. Use quotes if you want.

i really think it should be you telling him how this is making you feel... and you can use some of the stuff i wrote to help you explain why.

think about the risks you are taking... i think they are worht taking, but it's not me and i don't have to live with it. He might get mad, or defensive or whatever... or, he might absorb it and work with you. i have zero idea. My wording is pretty blunt and harsh. You don't catch flies with vinegar. Try a little honey. If you write using the word "i" more than the word "you" for example.

yeah, i am more on the re-write in your own words side. But i am glad it helped you. Sometimes we feel strong feelings but can't get sense from them. i do that a lot. i hope i helped you make sense of some of your feelngs.


 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe

Posted by Maria01 on September 2, 2007, at 21:12:35

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by RealMe on September 1, 2007, at 23:38:35

Hi RealMe-

Thanks for your reply. My intern really threw me for a loop; I figured that with middle age, came some maturity ahd hopefully she had worked thru some things. She had told me on numerous occaisions that she has been working with her T for over 12 yrs! Uh, yeah. :/

I was able to find a wonderful vet tech job in a cat practice of all places =) I love kitties, so it was a natural fit. I'm presently owned by two females, ages 10 and 13. I have thought about going into pet-sitting (AKA pet care in people's homes) but pet sitters in my town are like actors in Hollywood: You can't turn around without hitting one. Market way over-saturated. =(
I would definitely suggest that you talk to one of your vet's techs; I'm sure they would love to house/pet-sit for you! I have people in the vet's office ask me all the time. I do housecalls, but dont' stay overnight due to the age of my own kitties...All of us in the office pet-sit a little on the side when we can.

The way you handled transfers with your clients was so respectful and humane. My aunt is a retired clinical psychologist who also used to supervise interns, and she would insist on a "warm hand-off" of a client to another therapist. My ex-t was more interested in getting me out the door and out of their hair. They gave me a knee-jerk referral to three agencies, none of which worked out and one of which was faith-based(she knew I was agnostic).

I am so glad to be free of that whole arrangement. Working with my present T is so drama-free and she really likes to focus on a person's strengths, and refuses to label/pathologize anyone. Part of her philosophy is that her clients need to still be able to function in their everyday lives; they can't do that if therapy constantly weighs on them..

Your kitties sound so very sweet. Give them some extra tummyrubs and scritches for me. I love older kitties; they are so wise and just so peaceful to be around.

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01

Posted by Maria01 on September 2, 2007, at 21:15:18

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe, posted by Maria01 on September 2, 2007, at 21:12:35

EDIT: Owned by two female kitties, ages 10 and 13! oops

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01

Posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 22:29:38

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe, posted by Maria01 on September 2, 2007, at 21:12:35

Thanks Maria

I love my kitties too; Sigi is such a loveable boy. Freyja is very needy. We had an older female when we got them, and unfortunately she needed to be put to sleep before they were a year old. She was a good mama to two differenct "twins" I brought home and outlived the earlier ones who got cancer. These two are only nine years old. Male got the kidney problems from the wheat gluten. Hills paid $200 toward our vet bill as it was their one and only food with wheat gluten in it he was eating. Freyja is a tubby and needs to lose weight and is slowly but surely. She is already down to half the insulin dose she sterted on, but she is very needy. I think the death of the older female really impacted on her. She used to cuddle with her. Cats are very interesting. She is still very demanding, and the jealousy between the two is so funny at times. The green eyed monster rears it's ugly head, and then off they go rolling on the floor. No biting, no scratching, but you would swear Freyja is being killed. I let um go at it. I used to rescue her thinking she was being hurt, but she wasn't.

I just am so struck by what happened with you old therapist. I bet your aunt was shocked too. I just don't get it. I know that even though I don't write a letter for my pracitcum student, she will end up getting some sort of an internship, inforaml if not formal. And she will get licensed. This is why one cannot assume that a therapist will be good, psychiatrist, psychologist, or social worker just because they were trained. Best for people to check thinks out as best as possible just as you would a plumbe or a roofer, etc. In fact, I would say it is even more important. Find out the person's training, experience, and if possbible what others might have to say about that person. I asked around and mades some calls before setttling on my current therapist. I checked him out on google--but not much there. I had even called a female and made an appointment with her, but canceled it. Over the phone she turned me off by bad-mouthing Menninger's. Hell they were number one in the country for psychiatry when I trained there, and she is going to bad mouth them becasue they never "forced" me to deal with certain issues in my therapy previous to my training. Well she got scratched off the list real fast. She would "force" me to address things. Hum!

I know most people don't do their research re a therapist, and most people would have no idea what sort of therapy they might want. Most people who do short term therapy approaches bad-mouth the folks who do long-term therapy and think insight is just the ahah experience which tells me they do not really understand what is meant by insight. Insight include the ahah experience but also includes behavior changes. Insight is not just understanding. The end. Well enough of my blabbering. Glad you found another position. I think we will just stay over night and head home, and so Freyja will get at least one insulin shot for the two days, and she can eat Sigi's food for one day. Sigi, however, cannot eat her food ever. I know that. He sneaks sometimes when I am not looking, and I have to shoo him away. Poor little boy; he doesn't know any better. So good tonight taking his treatment. He snuggles with me while my husband sticks the needle in and lets the bag drip. All the time he is next to me snuggling and purring away. He is a lover not a fighter, and lets me stick my face in his belly too. Never had a male that would allow that. So, I will give them scratches on the tummy before I go to bed.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe

Posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 22:33:22

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01, posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 22:29:38

Right about being owned by your kitties.

And sorry for all the typos. I didn't do spell check on the last message and rarely do. Oh well.

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 19:59:12

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01, posted by RealMe on September 2, 2007, at 22:29:38

Your kitties sound like little treasures! My girls will playfight, and you would think the younger one were being killed. She will start to yell if she is even approached by the other one....the little kitty who cried wolf.

I am so sorry Sigi get ill from the tainted cat food. We have seen so much of that in the office where I work; it breaks my heart. These helpless little guys with renal failure way too soon. Lots of heartbroken people. The worst part of my job by far...

Yes, my aunt was really appalled at how my termination was handled. I never discussed my therapy with her, she only knew I was in therapy. She knew the full story once I was terminated, and she was appalled at how it was handled and suggested that the intern be pulled from internship if she felt so triggered.

Fortunately, I researched my current T thoroughly. I was able to find some info on her via Google, and the PsychToday referral listing, and I was able to verify that her license was in good standing with no suspensions, etc. I wish more people knew how to do this; it would save them a lot of trouble, etc. I also asked her point-blank in the initial interview if she has had suspensions or other blackmarks against her license. She wasn't defensive, and that told me volumes that she had nothing to hide. She essentially was put thru the Spanish Inquistion =) I had spoken with another T who seemed so arrogant, I told her right over the phone we would not be a good match.

For anyone, especially in the business to bad-mouth Meninger's is not a good sign...just...wow. Everyone has their difference of opinion, but for another clinician to openly bad-mouth another T or hospital is low-class and very unprofessional. I'm glad you found a good T as well. I was so sad to hear what you had gone thru with him and the ECT. *shakes head* I think both of us (and anyone else who has gone thru negative experiences with T's) need and deserve a good, solid connection with a good T.

I am pretty appalled that very soon, the state I live in will see fit to grant my former T/ intern a license to practice. My aunt used to supervise interns, and sometimes one wasn't quite ready to practice. She made no bones if they weren't ready. My former T's supervisor didn't seem particularly alarmed when I spoke with her; she tried to wriggle out of it by saying things like "Maybe she meant to say it a different way..."Maybe you heard her wrong" Uh, no. I know what she said, and I know what I heard. There is nothing worse than sitting in front of your T, and then seeing their eyes go stone cold while they read you out. That's when I knew something was really wrong, and it wasn't me....still, it was hard initially for me to not blame myself somehow. I then mentally replayed the whole episode, and knew that my T had a lot of problems..it was like she "split off"...oy!

Anyway, pets to those sweet kitties, and chances are your sweet Freya does miss her female companion kitty. They form very tight bonds. I used to volunteer at a no-kill animal shelter and would see firsthand the relationships these sweet little guys would form. It really took my breath away. I used to also volunteer with terminally ill kitties, and would see how their eventual passing affected the others. Cats never cease to amaze me!

Pets and good thoughts to your Sigi and Freya. ^..^

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 20:20:30

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe, posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 19:59:12

Have you considered filing a complaint againt the supervisor of the intern??

RealMe

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*

Posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 20:38:20

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 20:20:30

Yes, I have. Still haven't ruled it out. Technically, they did a "clean" termination: I was told why I was being terminated, and given a letter of termination, along with the names of three agencies. In my state, as long as someone is terminated with at least three referral choices, the BBS will see that as clean/ no client abandonment. Trying to think of on what grounds I can complain, because something just isin't right with how that whole thing was handled. Not sure if they violated any regulations, though. That's the tricky part. Input?

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*

Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 23:31:59

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by Maria01 on September 3, 2007, at 20:38:20

You said she has unresolved csa issues that you supposedly triggered in her. Did she say this to you or her supervisor. That is something right there. Statements made to you within therapy, personal information about her life, etc. Not Okay. That is a start. You would have to babblemail me with sorts of things she said during the course of therapy and later, and then I think I could tell you what was not appropriate. Or, if you are comfortable enough to do so, write those things down and ask your aunt.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe

Posted by Maria01 on September 4, 2007, at 9:23:10

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI*, posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 23:31:59

I'm headed off to work/school right now, but I will try to Babblemail you when I get home tonite. The kitties await! =)

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01

Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 17:31:02

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe, posted by Maria01 on September 4, 2007, at 9:23:10

Hope you are doing okay. Read some of your previous posts over, and I think you have a good case.

RealMe
(OzLand)

 

Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe

Posted by Maria01 on September 6, 2007, at 19:46:58

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* Maria01, posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 17:31:02

HI RealMe,

I wanted to Babblemail you, but I'm having trouble with Babblemail settings; can't seem to switch it on. Any suggestions? Help =)

 

Re: Help needed to turn on babble mail

Posted by RealMe on September 6, 2007, at 20:16:58

In reply to Re: Forced Termination and Hatred *Trigger SI* RealMe, posted by Maria01 on September 6, 2007, at 19:46:58

> HI RealMe,
>
> I wanted to Babblemail you, but I'm having trouble with Babblemail settings; can't seem to switch it on. Any suggestions? Help =)


I am not sure,but I changed the name of the thread so that hopefully a deputy will see it and know what to do. I will also try to babble mail you, and I will see what happens.

RealMe


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