Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 769139

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Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa)

Posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

For those who don't know me, I have a long-standing relationship of yes, 17 years, with a wonderful female T, who has been my rock. She is a MSW so doesn't prescribe meds, so I have a pdoc, too.

I've had the same male pdoc for two years; he took over when my old one retired and I just went with the new guy. It's not like I went looking for a new one; he was convenient, he was there and in the beginning all he did was prescribe meds.

I like him OK. He's young and rather cold. He's very matter of fact and honest, but he offsets my T very well, who is so much more supportive. (compassion is not even in my pdoc's dictionary). He's very dirct, and I appreciate that, because sometimes I need to be shaken out of my poor, pitiful me mode. That said, it has been worth it because I've learned things. Sometims I disagree w/him and ignore what he says because I know myself better. We argue sometimes, but on a superficial level, nothing too tough.

About two months ago, he suggested we extend our sessions to an hour, thereby doing therapy because we were talking more. I asked about his style and as expected, he said he was a CBT guy with doses of psychodynamic.

My past experiences with male therapists/pdocs has been mostly superficial (mostly just meds and little talking on my behalf, never opening up).

The worst experience I ever had w/a male T was the last one, about four years ago. He was the first male I ever opened up to, trusted and talked about the csa. His response? After a session or two, he terminated me and referred me out after he had agreed in writing to my insurance company to see me for the next 18 months. No explanation whatsoever, he just turned his back on me.

I was devastated beyond belief and sunk into a deep depression. It took me years to accept that it was him and not me, that I pushed some buttons he couldn't handle. That said, it was still awful, that I felt like what I had told him was so disgusting that I drove him away.

I warned my new pdoc about this from the beginning, that I don't work well with male authority figures.

But I have felt that some of the work I still need to do over my experiences with my father has to be done with a male. I can't connect with my T over this; I just really feel I have to work this through with a male.

So, two sessions (3 wks) ago--and after two years--I truly opened up to my pdoc about the base feelings I have for my father (I wrote about them in an earlier thread). His demeanor kind of changed after that. He's usually very methodical and business-like at the end, and he has been a bit flustered the last two times.

Last time I saw him was 2 weeks ago, before a trip to my mother's. I was feeling lower than low and he was expending his efforts on telling me that it was my father's failings and not my responsibility for what happened, yada, yada. Heard it all before, I know it, but that doesn't seem to help.

We made an appt for the following week right after I got back. I cancelled it the day before because I guess I was angry he wasn't more helpful, he didn't get it, I was exhausted, whatever it was I didn't want to go. He called to ask if I wanted to reschedule and I said I would call him this week. I needed time to think this through.

So, now, this week, he has pulled so far back and has made himself totally unavailable. He used to make his appts but now has an "office," and it took three days for me to get a suggested time. She offered me a time three weeks from now. I had to laugh; then she offered next week, which is still not good enough. Called yesterday and left him a message that I can't believe he is so insensitive and would totally disregard the suffering of one of his patients (and he knows I'm suffering right now)

No reply to any of my calls, which is unlike him. He has wrapped himself in the "business of his practice". So unlike him. Rearranging appts has never been an issue before. Am I being punished?

I think I've gone too far. I expect a termination letter before Monday, or that he will tell me Tuesday that he is terminating me. Why? because I opened up, told him the horrifying things and his response tells me he can't handle it.

I just don't know what to do if this happens? Yet again I've screwed up and picked the wrong person to tell? I will be devastated. This just reinforces what a disgusting person I am, worthless, and yes, a da*n freak, that if someone I've worked with for two years is going to turn his back on me... That will be it. Men think I'm disgusting. I've always known it, but I trusted this time--what a fool. When will I ever learn?

antigua

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa)

Posted by Maria01 on July 12, 2007, at 10:14:42

In reply to Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

I'm not sure this would work for you, but I would take the bull by the horns and ask him directly if he intends to terminate you. Let him know you noticed a shift in his demeanor, and that you are concerned, based on past experience. It may or may not have nothing to do with you. Ask your T how to best handle this guy as well. From what I've seen here, a lot of pdocs lack empathy...
I would have saved myself a lot of grief and stress if I had come out and asked my ex-T if she planned on terminating me...I let myself wait instead, and it was torture. Please don't make the same mistake; the stress isn't worth it. Call the guy and let him know you'd like to talk with him ASAP. If he doesn't respond well, it's more of a reflection on him than on you.

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa) Maria01

Posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 10:58:12

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by Maria01 on July 12, 2007, at 10:14:42

I've asked off handedly before once or twice but he has deflected the question, but it's usually I ask "when are you leaving me?" and not "are you going to terminate me"

I plan on asking him directly, first thing, when I see him next week. I couldn't handle it over the phone and I need the time to prepare for an answer of yes.
thanks for responding,
antigua

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3

Posted by Dinah on July 12, 2007, at 11:19:52

In reply to Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

I think Maria is right. You need to talk to him about it. So many things might be happening. He *might* be angry about your cancellation, or he might be reacting to what you told him. But it's also possible that something else entirely is going on, and because of your past experience you are understandably associating it with your revelation.

Is this a new office setup? It might have brought changes in his way of practicing that are distressing to him, and that might be what you're reacting to.

During my therapist's time away from the city, he arranged to share office space with an existing practice. This practice had a receptionist who set up appointments. My therapist happily sent me to her to set up my appointment. I was a bit upset, and reminded him that in our entire time together, even when he worked with an agency who collected the fees, he personally set up future appointments.

He waxes eloquent about how happy he was to have someone to take care of the administrative details. And I told him that setting up the appointments had always had more than merely administrative meaning to me. It was an assurance that I would see him again, it was part of the caring. He brushed it off a bit with more words of how convenient it was, and how he'd always wanted something like that, and how it didn't mean he didn't care. But afterwards, while the receptionist always recorded the appointment, he actually discussed a convenient time with me, then walked me to the desk and asked her to set up that time for me.

It was a rare display of sensitivity. :)

So I think discussing it as calmly and nonaccusingly as you can might be the best approach. If you start by telling him why you might be feeling that way based on past experience, maybe he won't be defensive.

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3

Posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 11:53:36

In reply to Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

sorry this is long but have to say some stuff on your other concerns mentioned...i think what others have said about 'termination' issue are good advice.

>>I was devastated beyond belief and sunk into a deep depression. It took me years to accept that it was him and not me, that I pushed some buttons he couldn't handle. That said, it was still awful, that I felt like what I had told him was so disgusting that I drove him away.

ohhh dear antigua....
i think this is our worst fear. i know im still hesitant to give any more detail than necessary of csa to new T. i really like her but i tend to distrust females and i think part of that is fear of judgement, especially since i like her. that if i say too much she may think i'm sick for "letting it go on...", or some type of shame/blame reaction... i really dont believe she's like that but none the less the fear is there.

>>I warned my new pdoc about this from the beginning, that I don't work well with male authority figures.
>>But I have felt that some of the work I still need to do over my experiences with my father has to be done with a male. I can't connect with my T over this; I just really feel I have to work this through with a male.

i SOOO understand this as i am this EXACT way with females. and my last T was male and when he left he Strongly suggested my next T be female so that i could work out these issues.

but back to the issues at hand. if you do get a termination letter. chalk it up to one more incompetent mental health professional. afterall he was the one that seemed to 'push' for you to open up to him...well for better or worse...you did. and GOOD for you for doing it. you know, it really doesn't matter what his reaction was. you are not responsible for that, but wow, be proud that you have been able to expose such a vulnerable part of yourself to a gender that you thought you never would!
and i don't think you messed up at all telling to him. despite his reaction, it doesn't matter...it's HIS issue NOT yours. you are working ACTIVELY to heal yourself and I think you are doing a darn good job!

and though my csa is different i really understand what you are saying about your feelings. and quite frankly i just don't see where these reactions would be uncommon, so i am surprised at such a reaction from your pdoc....
i can relate similarly. when i would have a lover that would do something sexually to me that was similar to my abuser (sometimes even provoke flashbacks) i would actually feel more sexual pleasure. i of course would then commense to drink and pop pills, or cut. but nonetheless the feelings arose.
but the feelings you have (to me) are SO understandable. he's your father. girls love their fathers and learn to show affection in the way they are shown it. you were shown through sexual means(although i don't mean to call what he did 'affection' please understand what i mean)..therefore the affection you have for your father arise in a sexual manner. i don't see that as anyway sick. its how we as humans rationalize things to survive also.
as young children, we just can't understand how someone like a parent could do anything harmful to us, so we find a way to rationalize it. to young children csa often means a type of love or attention. and for those of us that were denied affection from other family members it makes that attention that much more important.

and antigua...i'm no psychologist, these are just my opinions. i hope i didn't say anything upsetting. but i just want you to know that i really don't think you are alone in what you feel. and you are CERTAINLY NO freak or sick person.


>>I don't know, maybe it's about separating the feelings out? That I can't face the fear alone without the pleasure???

let me just add that this makes a lot of sense to me. i think the pleasure may help mask the fear, pain and anger that you are also feeling.

it sounds to me like you are Really gaining ground here DESPITE these roadblocks put up by incompetent "professionals"...

and AGAIN just to make sure you're listening!!!
you are NOT a "d@mn freak", you are NOT "disgusting" in ANY way!
You are a WONDERFUL, CARING, SMART, PRETTY, and INTELLIGENT woman.
be proud...Very proud of how far you've come in your life!

((((((((((((((((antigua)))))))))))))))

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c Dinah

Posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 11:59:36

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3, posted by Dinah on July 12, 2007, at 11:19:52

Thank you, Dinah.

No, he hasn't physically changed offices, and I know him now having a receptionist has made it much easier on him. But if he has made such drastic changes in the way he practices it was his responsibility to inform me. (like no longer returning calls, for example)

There just have been clues over the last several sessions and his behavior this week has been difficult to accept. I just can't help harping back to what happened before and I need to prepare myself.

As I mentioned, I will ask him directly when I see him next week. Just hope that I don't become a Klonopin junkie before then. And I did actually cry over this, which is probably a good thing since it's so hard for me to cry anymore.
thanks again,
antigua

 

sorry, above response ***TRIGGER*** (nm)

Posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 11:59:38

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3, posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 11:53:36

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c B2chica

Posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 12:09:35

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3, posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 11:53:36

Thank you for your kind words. Part of what you said is what makes this so hard. These were natural reactions on the part of a young girl who was sexualized at an inappropriately young age. You'd think my pdoc would get that; he works primarily with children.

You didn't upset me, and I know you mean well, but it's hard to shake the true disgust and hopelessness that I feel. My old pdoc told me that people with trauma are drawn to re-enactments of the trauma--not on purpose, but subconsciously--in an effort to get a different outcome. I know that I've done that with just regular men, but I thought a psychiatrist wouldn't repeat the pattern. It's just devastating.

Thanks again, you're a sweetie. And I'm not pretty by the way, my self-esteem is in the mud right now and I'm just trying to remember that at least I'm a good mother, with three great kids, even though my pdoc and I would never agree on my parenting style.

I'm just so sad, but preparing myself. I just don't want to be caught off guard.
best,
antigua

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3

Posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 12:28:31

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c B2chica, posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 12:09:35

wow...he works with children? someone need to beat him with a compassion stick.
it actually upsets me that someone with that reaction would work with tramatized children.
and i'm sorry you are feeling such terrible feelings about you right now.
-i completely belive what you say about people with trauma...re-enactments. i think that's why ive been molested by several people over many years and was SA in HS...i really began feeling i was inviting this type of person around me. and for i don't know how many years i would have dreams of being SA again, only in my dreams i would kick serious butt. sometimes i wish i would get a chance to fend someone off (this time). but i'm also scared that i still wouldn't be able to.

***and of all people, a pdoc is NOT one you should have to worry about. i find it unforgiveable if he is infact planning on terminating. not just on terminating but on the whole way he's "handling" this situation.

(((antigua))) i'm so sorry you are so sad.
but people like you, who have lived through so much and Still able to raise children well are really important to me. i had doubts before my little one was born but now i question everything i do and i worry so much. but it helps SO much to see others with similar backgrounds making it!
so THANK YOU for being that Great mom!

and FYI, we'll go round and round about you "not being pretty". even though i can't see you, all you say and do here at this site, i see you as nothing BUT pretty. and well, hehe i sometimes imagine what people here look like, and for some reason i've got you pegged as this one lady in a Suave commercial, beautiful brown locks with kids at her side...strong and full of fortitude.
take care while you are going through this. i'm so sorry that you should even have to.

b2c.

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c B2chica

Posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 13:03:47

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c antigua3, posted by B2chica on July 12, 2007, at 12:28:31

My kids are great, and I'm not the only one who says it, so I'm not just bragging. I owe a lot of their upbringing to my wonderful T, who has shown me the path I wanted to follow so I wouldn't repeat my childhood. I am open and honest with them (but not too much) and allow them to speak their mind and have learned that while I may not always agree with them, I've grown them to let them fly off on their own. They will make their own mistakes based on their choices, and I just hope that they rely on the fortitude I've tried to instill in them. (My daughter is awesome! She knows her own mind and expresses herself so well. Her teacher this year said she'd never met a girl at her age who was so comfortable in her own skin. She knows who she is. I wish I had one-tenth of her self-confidence, which is not misplaced with her. She does know herself really well)

Have faith. You will do a wonderful job. You will make mistakes, we all do, but if you build on what you've learned NOT to do, you will be happy with how she(a she, right?) turns out.

Thank you so very much; you've been very helpful.

I'm too short for the Sauve image, BTW.
antigua

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa) antigua3

Posted by DAisym on July 13, 2007, at 1:32:28

In reply to Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

((((Antigua)))) -- I'm sorry for what you are going through. It is so very painful and you've had enough pain.

>>>>No reply to any of my calls, which is unlike him. He has wrapped himself in the "business of his practice". So unlike him. Rearranging appts has never been an issue before. Am I being punished?

*****You might be. But I think some of the other explanations are more likely. Most therapists expect client cancellations when things get hard. It is reasonable to avoid painful experiences and therapy is painful. It sounds like there are "new rules" - and I agree with you that he should have talked with you about these changes.

>>>>I think I've gone too far. I expect a termination letter before Monday, or that he will tell me Tuesday that he is terminating me. Why? because I opened up, told him the horrifying things and his response tells me he can't handle it.

*********Which part do you think he can't handle? He's known about the csa for awhile - is it the details you shared that you think he is freaked out about? Or is it your feelings? I can't tell you how many times I've told something and waited for my therapist to gasp in disgust and then order me out of the room. He never has. He has been overwhelmed once or twice - and he has reacted strongly to some of the details, enough to scare me tons. But we've always talked it out and he clearly states that it comes from his caring for me, and his anger at what happened to me -- it isn't that he thinks poorly of me.

>>>I just don't know what to do if this happens? Yet again I've screwed up and picked the wrong person to tell? I will be devastated. This just reinforces what a disgusting person I am, worthless, and yes, a da*n freak, that if someone I've worked with for two years is going to turn his back on me... That will be it. Men think I'm disgusting. I've always known it, but I trusted this time--what a fool. When will I ever learn?

******I can completely understand why you'd feel this way. Foolish to trust, worthless and a freak. But if you are, aren't I also? I feel like this so much of the time -- I can't begin to tell you how often I've said, "I just want to be normal!" But in my more rational moments, I know I'm not a disgusting person -- and neither are you. We were both little girls who loved their dad and had very bad things happen. Someone who should have taken care of us, hurt us. Now it is happening to you again -- but the ending isn't the same. You are standing up for yourself, you are telling by writing it here and you aren't alone. You have your family, your therapist and your Babble friends.

Will you ever learn? I think you are learning. You are learning that your story needs to be told even if you can't control someone's response to it. The secret itself is poison and it needs to be aired out. You used good judgement by picking this man to share your story with. He isn't just another person, he is someone who hopefully will be able to hear it and help you. But even if he can't, telling him wasn't the wrong thing to do. I am truly hoping your meeting next week clears up many of your fears and he is more himself. I know it is torture to wait until your appointment. I hope he calls you soon.

Hugs, Daisy

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa)

Posted by OzLand on July 13, 2007, at 6:44:13

In reply to Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 12, 2007, at 9:52:44

I have not read all the threads as I have to get ready for work, but I agree with Maria. I would take the first available appointment and then be direct with him as to my fears that he plans to terminate me. I would also let him know of the past experience so he knows the context of your concerns. He may not be the best male "therapist" to work on issues related to your father. You likely need a male who is more warm and caring. My take.

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c

Posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 8:04:14

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by OzLand on July 13, 2007, at 6:44:13

I agree with Ozland. It isn't at all that there aren't men who could be supportive and caring about the csa and your feelings about your father.

It could be that you've chosen the wrong men to confide in-- possible from becoming desperate at a moment, and turning to someone who's there-- who may be cold or emotionally limited in response.

Sounds like your prior therapist and this pdoc both were somehow remote and formal people-- who preferred impersonal and cut-and-dried types of tasks-- rather than emotionally intense and open-ended ones.

I'm very sorry about what happened, though. I know what's it's like. It's happened to me also with male (and female) Ts.. Maybe a consultation with a male therapist, for a brief time, to work on some issues-- could provide something you very much are looking for. You then could have a referral from your own T, to someone who's capable of responding. She would be able to give you someone who, in her judgment, could respond adequate or helpfully. It isn't everyone who can-- male or female.

Try, if you possibly can, not to generalize from this man (or several man) and your experiences from childhood. There really are good and kind, and decent people of all types out there-- this guy may not have the the emotional instincts--or training--to do what you needed him to do.

It's not at all your fault-- it's just him, in his individual unique strengths and limitations. I dont think he means to hurt you, may he just is having a hard time coping.

Honore

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa)

Posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 10:23:14

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa) antigua3, posted by DAisym on July 13, 2007, at 1:32:28

> ((((Antigua)))) -- I'm sorry for what you are going through. It is so very painful and you've had enough pain.

I can never have enough pain; it's neverending. It truly is. To trust the happiness is dangerous because it can be so fleeting.
>
>
Most therapists expect client cancellations when things get hard. It is reasonable to avoid painful experiences and therapy is painful. It sounds like there are "new rules" - and I agree with you that he should have talked with you about these changes.
>
Thanks. I thought I had gotten past avoiding therapy. I usually make a point of going when things are so bad, because I know I will be helped. And that is almost always true with my T. She knows me so well that she helps me with my faulty thinking, or shows me a different way of looking at the situation.

Maybe part of it is that my pdoc hasn't always been able to do that, to tie it all up in a neat package at the end so I feel better. The last few sessions have ended badly for me mostly, because his ideas have not been helpful, they are tired, already learned lessons. But maybe he strikes a male chord within me that is different from my T. I think the pdoc is frustrated he's not helping, and appears to actually make things worse. I think it's all about connecting, and since we've stepped into this uncharted territory we have lost our connection. Maybe it's because he's seeing me in an entirely different way and doesn't know how to help me.

> *********Which part do you think he can't handle? >

I haven't even gone into great detail with him, but I did expose my feelings about how I felt, the wave of emotions. I think he's disgusted by the sexuality part, and that is probably pure projection on my part. With him, the facts are the facts of what happened, and we are just now discussing the emotions. Well, I'm discussing the emotions at least. He's trying to show me that these feelings aren't rational, which I already know, but they are my feelings.

> >>>I just don't know what to do if this happens? Yet again I've screwed up and picked the wrong person to tell? I will be devastated. This just reinforces what a disgusting person I am, worthless, and yes, a da*n freak, that if someone I've worked with for two years is going to turn his back on me... That will be it. Men think I'm disgusting. I've always known it, but I trusted this time--what a fool. When will I ever learn?
>
> ******I can completely understand why you'd feel this way. in my more rational moments, I know I'm not a disgusting person -- and neither are you. We were both little girls who loved their dad and had very bad things happen. Someone who should have taken care of us, hurt us. Now it is happening to you again -- but the ending isn't the same. You are standing up for yourself, you are telling by writing it here and you aren't alone. You have your family, your therapist and your Babble friends.
>
Thanks. No, you aren't a freak, I would never think that way about someone else. Part of it is being smacked in the face with other people's reactions. My husband is ashamed, which makes me feel worse, and whenever I've told someone, even a close friend, their reaction is almost hurtful (shouldn't you be over that by now?? for ex)

This is a whole secret part of csa that is rarely discussed. We are told by our helping professionals to speak up, but I, at least, have been shocked by society's reactions. Even in group, once, when I was forced to tell I had been abused, one guy started hitting on me, treating me as if I invited sexuality because this had happened. And I don't think it's so much a matter of who we tell, I think there is some universal reaction that I need to become more aware of, because I've only opened up to people I really, really trust (except the group) and I know myself well enough that I didn't pick wrongly w/ALL of these people. It's a huge thing.

> Will you ever learn? I think you are learning. You are learning that your story needs to be told even if you can't control someone's response to it. The secret itself is poison and it needs to be aired out. You used good judgement by picking this man to share your story with. He isn't just another person, he is someone who hopefully will be able to hear it and help you. But even if he can't, telling him wasn't the wrong thing to do.

While I respect your opinion, I don't agree. The secret is not so poisonous to me anymore, it's the reactions from others that is my new poison. That's why Babble is so helpful; others don't judge, but in real life people judge, and I can't stop that from happening, so I will drive the secret back underground. Telling him was wrong; I need him in so many ways and this has driven him away. It drives people away, really, and especially the ones who are supposed to be willing to help.

I am sure that if he does terminate me his reason will be that "he can't help me". If I said "can't" to him, he would say the correct word is "won't". And that's a huge part of this. He won't help, I'm too awful, etc., etc. It just reinforces how badly I feel about myself.

And this is a pattern, not an isolated incident with a male helping professional, so I can't just shake it off.

thanks for all your support, Daisy, I truly appreciate it.
antigua

>


 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa)

Posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 10:31:09

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by OzLand on July 13, 2007, at 6:44:13

> I have not read all the threads as I have to get ready for work, but I agree with Maria. I would take the first available appointment and then be direct with him as to my fears that he plans to terminate me. I would also let him know of the past experience so he knows the context of your concerns. He may not be the best male "therapist" to work on issues related to your father. You likely need a male who is more warm and caring. My take.

With all due respect, it's not as easy as you make it sound. If it were, I wouldn't be here again. It's the "again" that's so painful. IMO, running from male T to male T is not going to change things. I truly don't know if I could ever open up again, or that I should even try. One bad apple, maybe, but more than one signifies a big problem to me. It's the pattern that needs to be addressed.
I hope you understand what I mean. I'm not trying to be hurtful, and I do appreciate your suggestion, and, of course, you're probably right, but I just don't know if I could ever gather up the strength again.
thanks,
antigua


 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c

Posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 10:43:57

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c, posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 8:04:14


>
> It could be that you've chosen the wrong men to confide in-- possible from becoming desperate at a moment, and turning to someone who's there-- who may be cold or emotionally limited in response.

That's my whole point. I think I've picked men who are the right type and I'm always wrong.
>
> Sounds like your prior therapist and this pdoc both were somehow remote and formal people-- who preferred impersonal and cut-and-dried types of tasks-- rather than emotionally intense and open-ended ones.
>
Gee, sounds a little like my father. Interesting, thank you. But I just don't think an emotionally intense male T would be particularly helpful. I don't think that' what I need from a male T.

> You then could have a referral from your own T, to someone who's capable of responding. She would be able to give you someone who, in her judgment, could respond adequate or helpfully. It isn't everyone who can-- male or female.
>
Up until this point, my T has approved of my pdoc and recognized how helpful he has been to me in ways that are different from her. So something about ME has to change in my dealings with these people, because I sound like a broken record, but it's a pattern.

> It's not at all your fault-- it's just him, in his individual unique strengths and limitations. I dont think he means to hurt you, may he just is having a hard time coping.

That's probably true, but it's extremely hurtful that we've built up this relationship, and for it to break over this would be an easy way out for him and reinforce my feelings of unworthiness. The hard truth is that it reinforces the idea that I should not tell a man, EVER. And that I have to learn to deal with this and accept that, because I'm doing a lousy job of trying (as I've said, this is not an isolated incident; it happened with the last male T I trusted, and I could provide countless other examples)

To a certain extent, of course it's about their faults and the type of man I choose to tell, but time and time again it comes back to me, and I have to find a way to deal with it. That "magic" doctor isn't just going to show up.

Thanks for listening,
antigua

 

Let me add/clarify

Posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 11:15:31

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **c, posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 10:43:57

The previous male T I had opened up to actually was kind and compassionate, and said he was committed, until he abruptly terminated me. So I don't think this is all about finding a kind and compassionate male.
antigua

 

Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3

Posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 14:13:45

In reply to Let me add/clarify, posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 11:15:31

Antigua, I do wonder, no matter what you say, if you don't need a male T who is trained to deal with csa, not one who's trained to deal through cbt, even if he does have virtues and is helpful in certain contexts.

I really don't think that he will terminate you; but I do think he might not be the right person to help you-- even if he's the person you have right now, or even if you want him to be the one.

He just started doing any type of therapy with you-- two months ago-- which is only about a month before you had this session after which you cancelled-- you said because you might have been angry, disappointed that he didn't help or "get it."

I think you probably would go through a lot of this turmoil if you tried to work through the csa with him. I just think this isn't an area that he's trained to work with-- or that he's trained to work in a deep way.

I don't know what you want exactly from him that you can't get from your T. Maybe if you defined or at least got a better idea of what that was, you could evaluate whether, at least in your mind, he is the right T for that. If you really want to work with him, I suspect he will work with you. EVen if he's momentarily shocked or unclear how to handle the situation-- if you know that he's the right one for you, you can try to help him to help you.

So I'd say maybe the place to start is to clarify in your own mind how much you want to work with him, as him-- or how much and why you want to work with a male T, and what specifically your female T can't seem to provide that you need. Then you can start making some decisions are what's right for *you.*

If you figure that out, I believe the rest will follow-- not easily-- but in time.

Sorry if my last response didn't seem to be responsive to your feelings or points. Maybe I don't understand yet what it is you need or are looking for. I'd like to, though.

Honore

 

Re: Let me add/clarify Honore

Posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 14:33:34

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3, posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 14:13:45

Wow, that felt a bit harsh to me, but thank you for what you said. I need to take a step back and think about it.
antigua

 

Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3

Posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 16:22:11

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify Honore, posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 14:33:34

Antigua, Sorry my post came across as harsh. I didn't mean to be at all harsh. I wanted to be as helpful as I could, but again, I'm very sorry if it didn't come across that way.

Honore

 

Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa) antigua3

Posted by OzLand on July 13, 2007, at 17:07:56

In reply to Re: Tormented my Pdoc might terminate me (long **csa), posted by antigua3 on July 13, 2007, at 10:31:09

Oh I am not saying it is one bit easy. I decided to trust a male therapist and started to talk about abuse issues. This was two years ago. He ended up a year ago telling me to find another therapist as he thought I couldn't get past being angry with him. He sent me to some other psychiatrist for a consultation, and this guy said to me, "Boy you came cheap" when I said something about the abuser when I was age 7 and 8. So, I was angry at my therapist for sending me to a jerk like that. I had trouble getting past that, and my therapist (psychiatrist) kept saying I needed to do ECT as I was getting worse and worse emotionally after I begged him not to get rid of me and promised not to get angry with him. Well, post ECT he got angry with me for complaining about the memory problems I was having, and he said he thought there was nothing wrong with me dissociating. So I knew I had to find someone else; I found someone early May this year who is warm and like I said in another post, almost too nice. He is gone right now to a conference, but he gave me his cell phone number, etc. and he has been wonderful in a lot of ways and perhaps becasue he has worked with persons who were sexually abused and has lots of experience (30 years) and is an analyst with extra training, I think I lucked out. Actually I researched docs in the area and thought I would see what he is like.

Believe me I have had some real jerks over the years that I would not have trusted in a million years. ON the other hand, I had one who was like a father to me back in the 80s and I should have told him, but I didn't and now he is deceased. This is what triggered all the stuff coming back and overwhelming me.

 

Re: Let me add/clarify Honore

Posted by antigua3 on July 14, 2007, at 14:01:47

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3, posted by Honore on July 13, 2007, at 14:13:45

> Antigua, I do wonder, no matter what you say, if you don't need a male T who is trained to deal with csa, not one who's trained to deal through cbt, even if he does have virtues and is helpful in certain contexts.

I assumed/or was told that he was trained in csa, but I will ask. If he isn't then you're right
>
> I really don't think that he will terminate you; but I do think he might not be the right person to help you-- even if he's the person you have right now, or even if you want him to be the one.

You made me realize that I have to sort out my feelings for him, first, and then find what I need, and if he's not it, he's not it, accept it and move on. I'm stuck in the fear of abandonment and will resolve that first.
>
> He just started doing any type of therapy with you-- two months ago-- which is only about a month before you had this session after which you cancelled-- you said because you might have been angry, disappointed that he didn't help or "get it."

Actually, we have been doing therapy for longer than the two months; that's just when we changed the time because we were always running over
>

> I don't know what you want exactly from him that you can't get from your T.

I want the ability to be more open and honest, and I feel that I can be that way with him. Even angry. My T and I have a huge wall that I can't get over, in that she is more compassionate and motherly, and I couldn't say anything that I perceive as hurtful to her. I know, we're working on it; we've discussed it to death. I protect her.

Also, I cannot let my anger out with her, and I need to let it out.

I will try to get all my questions answered next week and then move on from there.
Now I'll quit whining.
thanks for your insight,
antigua

 

Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3

Posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 16:53:52

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify Honore, posted by antigua3 on July 14, 2007, at 14:01:47

Does your therapist know you are trying to do some therapy with your pdoc as well, and visaversa; does your pdoc know you have a therapist you work with?

 

Re: Let me add/clarify

Posted by antigua3 on July 15, 2007, at 17:49:23

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 16:53:52

yes to both. They don't know each, though and pdoc has never asked to speak with my T.
antigua

 

Re: Let me add/clarify antigua3

Posted by OzLand on July 15, 2007, at 23:08:27

In reply to Re: Let me add/clarify, posted by antigua3 on July 15, 2007, at 17:49:23

Has therapist ever asked to talk to pdoc? It seems odd to me that your pdoc has never asked to speak with your therapist especially if he has decided to try to do therapy with you. I hope you don't end up feeling hurt by him. If I were in your shoes, I would be careful as you don't know if he knows how to treat abuse issues. My last therapist/pdoc did not, and I ended up getting worse and ended up doing ECT because he kept pushing it. That in and of itself was very traumatizing for me.


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