Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 612762

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS)

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

In most ways my session today was pretty good. I talked about lots of stuff that I hate talking about. He was his usual encouraging self. He was careful and sensitive.

BUTÖ I was finding it pretty hard going. And at one point, when we were talking about faith, I asked him, ďAre you religious?Ē And he said something like, ďI donít think itís helpful to tell you my perspectives on things.Ē And I said, ďOh right; OK,Ē and we carried on.

I wasnít at all distressed that he didnít answer my question. I didnít ask out of any burning desire to know; it simply crossed my mind at that moment. And of course his answer came as no surprise to me.

But I was stunned at my reaction to his answer. I spent the rest of the session trying not to cry. Iím pretty sure I asked him the question just in order to feel that trusting him was the right thing to do; I wanted to feel more connected to him because I was feeling pretty freaked out by the words that were coming out of my mouth. But instead he pushed me away.

I wish heíd heard what I was really asking. I wish heíd asked me why I wanted to know, so I could have said, ďI donít really have an urgent need to know; Iím just feeling curious about you because I'm telling you so much about myself and I don't know anything about you.Ē

But I donít know how to ask for what I really want. I donít know how to stay feeling safe and connected when I start getting really freaked out. And when I feel as if I want to reach out to him, hoping heíll steady me (metaphorically), he seems to withdraw.

I came home and cut my arms, and then I cut my breasts for the first time. Iíve been wanting to cut my breasts for ages. In fact, Iíd like to cut them off completely.

Why canít I just tell him I want to stay connected to him? Thatís not outrageous, is it? ButÖ what if he refuses? What will I cut then?

How did I get so repulsive?


 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Tamar

Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 9:40:31

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

Tamar. You need to tell him what you're feeling *as* you're feeling it.

I'm the same way. I get upset at something in session, and come home and take it out on myself. Or call him hysterically and accuse him of having bad feelings about me.

I've learned I *have* to do a stream of consciousness about those things.

So last time when he stood up to stretch and moved to the chair that was five feet further away from me, I sat upset for a few minutes then said "You got up and moved away from me! That hurts, I feel rejected! Am I too close?" And we discussed the whole thing right there. It still hurt afterwards but not bad enough to hurt myself.

You can't let therapy be another source of pain to you Tamar. You have too many others right now. Believe me I understand. I really really do. It was hard as heck to start doing this. But it does help.

I'm sorry to put my hands on my hips with you. But I care about you and don't like to see you hurt, even by yourself. Is it ok to give you a cyberhug?

((((((Tamar))))))

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS

Posted by Annierose on February 24, 2006, at 12:17:12

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Tamar, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 9:40:31

Tamar -
I wished I knew what to say. I'm sad that you hurt yourself. Your body is beautiful. It is your vessel.

It is hard to speak up at those moments. I think most of us on this board have experienced that type of hurt during a therapy session. Dinah is right. If you can summon the courage to say what you are thinking right at that moment, he'd be able to address the issue right then and there. But I also know you were doing the best you could today. You have just started to feel the connection again and you need to trust him. I hope you get there soon. You deserve to feel happier.

I'm sorry you are feeling sad.
Annie

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS

Posted by B2chica on February 24, 2006, at 13:02:51

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

i think you got your message across very well in what you just wrote. maybe take those words to your T. this must be terrifying for you. if it's to terrifying there's nothing saying you absoultely have to tell your T now. maybe talk around the subject if you can, or write it down first. only when you can Tamar, only when you can.

i'm sorry you felt so bad you had to SI. please take care of your wounds. your body has been hurt enough, believe me i know how much self-hatred can run through ones veins when wanting to SI and i only want to say i wish i could hold your hand at those moments.
it's so hard not to act on those feelings. you must have been doing sometype of coping skill that you've managed to only now cut your breasts. think back to what held you back before.
i know once i found a new spot, it's SO easy to continue...i can only hope this is not true for you and i hope you don't harm yourself. you deserved to be loved and cared for inside AND out.

cares
b2c.

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by Voce on February 24, 2006, at 15:47:49

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

Tamar, I'm so so sorry. It's hard enough when we're in the session and the T is saying the RIGHT responses to our questions, but then when they mess up and we can't take care of ourselves...well...that can feel so terrible. He could have used that question so artfully to get to the question behind the question, but he didn't. I guess we can't fault him TOO much because he's human but he should've known better.

I agree with Dinah on this, I thought her post was right on. Everything is hurting you right now and therapy shouldn't be one of those things that hurts.

I hope you don't hurt yourself any more. :-(
Voce

P.S. Does the desire to cut off your breasts have something to do with age states? Like, you don't want to be a woman, you just want to be a kid and be safe and not deal with the scariness of adulthood?

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2006, at 16:05:28

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

I don't have a lot of answers, but I wanted to let you know that I was talking about the need for connection with my T yesterday. It always makes me cry to think about it or talk about it. And I can't put into words just exactly why. All I know is I said I didn't want to skip this week (I've been really sick), even though I know I have a standing appt. on Mondays. I said that I didn't like going more than a week between sessions, while at the same time saying I didn't feel like doing therapy because I felt so lousy. Logically, it didn't make sense. But I just really felt the need to maintain connection with him. And it's a hard feeling for me to directly address. I try to protect myself from it, and I don't exactly know why. I did ALOT of talking around it yesterday.

All that just to say, I think I understand a bit of what you were hoping/reaching for. It's a very normal wish. There's nothing wrong with it. And it really DOES hurt when you reach out and aren't met halfway. Or at least partway.

I hope you can share this with him. And I wish you speedy healing for your wounds. All of them.

gg

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Dinah

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 17:37:40

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Tamar, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 9:40:31

> Tamar. You need to tell him what you're feeling *as* you're feeling it.

Yeah. Youíre right. I need to start identifying when I feel hurt, because my first reaction is to pretend everything is fine; I almost convince myselfÖ

> I'm the same way. I get upset at something in session, and come home and take it out on myself. Or call him hysterically and accuse him of having bad feelings about me.
>
> I've learned I *have* to do a stream of consciousness about those things.

Good idea. I found the last couple of sessions I was able to say when I felt uncomfortable talking about something, but admitting to being hurt is so very contrary to my usual way of talkingÖ

> So last time when he stood up to stretch and moved to the chair that was five feet further away from me, I sat upset for a few minutes then said "You got up and moved away from me! That hurts, I feel rejected! Am I too close?" And we discussed the whole thing right there. It still hurt afterwards but not bad enough to hurt myself.

Itís good that you could say that. Yeah, Iíd have felt hurt as well.

> You can't let therapy be another source of pain to you Tamar. You have too many others right now. Believe me I understand. I really really do. It was hard as heck to start doing this. But it does help.

Youíre rightÖ although I donít know if therapy itself is a source of pain. I tend to assume my pain is transferential. And yes, it was hard to go back, but youíre right; it does help.

> I'm sorry to put my hands on my hips with you. But I care about you and don't like to see you hurt, even by yourself. Is it ok to give you a cyberhug?

Thanks Dinah! Cyberhugs are great. Hereís one for you too: (((((Dinah)))))

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Annierose

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 17:43:56

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS, posted by Annierose on February 24, 2006, at 12:17:12

> Tamar -
> I wished I knew what to say. I'm sad that you hurt yourself. Your body is beautiful. It is your vessel.

Thanks Annierose. Itís so nice to hear that.

> It is hard to speak up at those moments. I think most of us on this board have experienced that type of hurt during a therapy session. Dinah is right. If you can summon the courage to say what you are thinking right at that moment, he'd be able to address the issue right then and there. But I also know you were doing the best you could today. You have just started to feel the connection again and you need to trust him. I hope you get there soon. You deserve to feel happier.

Yeah, Iíd like to trust him. And itís so hard when he seems to push me away. I feel as if heís trying to avoid my transference. Iíve tried to talk about it so many times and he always closes it down. I may have to resort to desperate measuresÖ

> I'm sorry you are feeling sad.
> Annie

Thanks again Annie. Itís good to know you care.

Tamar

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ B2chica

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 17:59:05

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS, posted by B2chica on February 24, 2006, at 13:02:51

> i think you got your message across very well in what you just wrote. maybe take those words to your T. this must be terrifying for you. if it's to terrifying there's nothing saying you absoultely have to tell your T now. maybe talk around the subject if you can, or write it down first. only when you can Tamar, only when you can.

Iíd love to take my post to him but I worry heíd freak out or tell me it was inappropriateÖ Rationally Iím pretty sure he can hear it, but emotionally Iím terrified. But I want so much to tell him how important the connection is to me. And youíre right: itís only when I canÖ

> i'm sorry you felt so bad you had to SI. please take care of your wounds. your body has been hurt enough, believe me i know how much self-hatred can run through ones veins when wanting to SI and i only want to say i wish i could hold your hand at those moments.

Yeah; itís amazing how much I can hate myself and yet how much better I feel after I SI. Thanks for saying the thing about holding my hand. That sounds very niceÖ

> it's so hard not to act on those feelings. you must have been doing sometype of coping skill that you've managed to only now cut your breasts. think back to what held you back before.

I think what held me back before was the fear that if I cut my breasts Iíd do almost anything. And I donít know where I go from here. Maybe Iíve broken a kind of taboo; but maybe thatís a good thing. I dunnoÖ

> i know once i found a new spot, it's SO easy to continue...i can only hope this is not true for you and i hope you don't harm yourself. you deserved to be loved and cared for inside AND out.

Ah yes, the new spot thing. I want to do it constantly. Iím watching endless Friends videos with my six year-old so that I donít reach for the knife.

Being loved and cared for inside and out sounds like a wonderful dream. Iíd like that so much. And yet, I know rationally that many people love me. Maybe I just want EVERYONE to love me. AhhhÖ

Thanks, B2C.

Tamar

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Voce

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 18:16:31

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar, posted by Voce on February 24, 2006, at 15:47:49

> Tamar, I'm so so sorry. It's hard enough when we're in the session and the T is saying the RIGHT responses to our questions, but then when they mess up and we can't take care of ourselves...well...that can feel so terrible. He could have used that question so artfully to get to the question behind the question, but he didn't. I guess we can't fault him TOO much because he's human but he should've known better.

Either that, or heís working from a theoretical perspective in which transference isnít discussedÖ I *hate* that. Yeah, he could have got behind the question, but I donít think he wanted to. And maybe itís for reasons that are professional rather than personal, but I donít think I can feel the difference.

> I agree with Dinah on this, I thought her post was right on. Everything is hurting you right now and therapy shouldn't be one of those things that hurts.

Thatís true. Dinahís very clever! And so are youÖ Yeah, I donít want therapy to hurt.

> I hope you don't hurt yourself any more. :-(
> Voce
>
> P.S. Does the desire to cut off your breasts have something to do with age states? Like, you don't want to be a woman, you just want to be a kid and be safe and not deal with the scariness of adulthood?

I think you are probably onto something there. The 13 year-old doesnít want to become a woman. Iíve talked to her quite a bit; she wants my therapist to be a father-figure as well as a lover-figure and she wants his permission to be a sexual person and for her body to changeÖ She wants him to tell her that her teenage body is adorable; that having tiny breasts is sweet and that having only six pubic hairs is kinda cute. She wants him to be a little bit attracted to her, but in a safe and sensitive way. Ah, I love my fantasiesÖ


 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by Daisym on February 24, 2006, at 18:17:31

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

I want to ask you to please not hurt yourself but I do understand the urges and the release.

I think I'm like you; When I get sideswiped I go into automatic "it's fine" mode and really work hard to keep the other person from knowing how I'm feeling. I think I'm embarrassed to be having a strong reaction, even in therapy. And I have a need to carefully look at something privately before I share my feelings and reactions. So stream of consciousness is really hard for me.

However, I do make it a point to try to take back to therapy my thought process and how I felt initially, what I think happened and why. It is important to be honest, even if it is uncomfortable. And even if you can't do it in the moment.

I do understand that standard "I don't think it is helpful to you if I tell you that" answer. But I always want to answer, "I trust you with some really personal things...you can trust me with this." And when I don't get an answer, I'm mortified that I even asked. I feel like I broke a rule, I stepped over the line and God forbid, I made him uncomfortable somehow. I hate that feeling! Feels like I get an F in therapy that day.

*sigh* ((((Tamar)))) Feel better soon. I'm glad you posted today.

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ gardenergirl

Posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 18:44:09

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar, posted by gardenergirl on February 24, 2006, at 16:05:28

> I don't have a lot of answers, but I wanted to let you know that I was talking about the need for connection with my T yesterday. It always makes me cry to think about it or talk about it. And I can't put into words just exactly why. All I know is I said I didn't want to skip this week (I've been really sick), even though I know I have a standing appt. on Mondays. I said that I didn't like going more than a week between sessions, while at the same time saying I didn't feel like doing therapy because I felt so lousy. Logically, it didn't make sense. But I just really felt the need to maintain connection with him. And it's a hard feeling for me to directly address. I try to protect myself from it, and I don't exactly know why. I did ALOT of talking around it yesterday.

Itís hard, isnít it? Maybe protecting ourselves is an inevitable attempt to protect ourselves from being hurt. But I reckon there is no way to avoid being hurt in therapy. I want to ask my T how and when and where exactly he plans to hurt meÖ

> All that just to say, I think I understand a bit of what you were hoping/reaching for. It's a very normal wish. There's nothing wrong with it. And it really DOES hurt when you reach out and aren't met halfway. Or at least partway.

YeahÖ partway would be enoughÖ

> I hope you can share this with him. And I wish you speedy healing for your wounds. All of them.

Thanks GG!

Tamar

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Tamar

Posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 19:45:50

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Dinah, posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 17:37:40

I *do* know it's not easy. Especially since I know there's a strong bias in your area of the world towards CBT rather than transference based therapies.

I just hate to see you hurt, that's all. It's ok for me of course. But I hate to see it in anyone else, especially someone as terrific as you are.

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by sleepygirl on February 25, 2006, at 0:34:22

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

oh Tamar...you're certainly not repulsive
I'm sorry you're hurting
-sleepygirl

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Daisym

Posted by Tamar on February 25, 2006, at 10:13:15

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar, posted by Daisym on February 24, 2006, at 18:17:31

> I want to ask you to please not hurt yourself but I do understand the urges and the release.

I wanted to hurt myself again today but I was able to resist. It wasnít easy; the urges were strong, and also my legs donít match and I wanted to get them looking the same (I think Iím completely nuts!). But Iíve decided my legs donít need to match; maybe Iíll wear odd socks too!

> I think I'm like you; When I get sideswiped I go into automatic "it's fine" mode and really work hard to keep the other person from knowing how I'm feeling. I think I'm embarrassed to be having a strong reaction, even in therapy. And I have a need to carefully look at something privately before I share my feelings and reactions. So stream of consciousness is really hard for me.

Yeah! Iím very embarrassed to have a strong reaction, especially if I feel hurt. I worry if I show Iím hurt people will know how to hurt me again. Being able to hide my hurt feels like some kind of survival instinct.

> However, I do make it a point to try to take back to therapy my thought process and how I felt initially, what I think happened and why. It is important to be honest, even if it is uncomfortable. And even if you can't do it in the moment.

Yes. I HAVE to talk about this next session because I canít bear for it to happen again. And I always had a kind of agreement with myself that I wouldnít cut my breasts, because I figured if I allow myself to cut my breasts I donít know where Iíll stop. So I think this was (for me) an indication that some of my feelings really are intolerable. Iím pretty sure that my therapistís theoretical orientation involves keeping transference out of therapy, but heíll just have to deal with it because I canít handle it by myself any more. I know this cutting was hugely transferential; I know itís about my father, and I know itís about rejection. But knowing isnít enough any moreÖ

> I do understand that standard "I don't think it is helpful to you if I tell you that" answer. But I always want to answer, "I trust you with some really personal things...you can trust me with this." And when I don't get an answer, I'm mortified that I even asked. I feel like I broke a rule, I stepped over the line and God forbid, I made him uncomfortable somehow. I hate that feeling! Feels like I get an F in therapy that day.

An F in therapy: yeah, thatís it exactly. I feel like Iím doing it wrong. I want a guidebook or a map or something. And Iíd really like the forbidden territory to be marked with some bright colour so I donít go there by accident. I donít like being kicked out.

> *sigh* ((((Tamar)))) Feel better soon. I'm glad you posted today.

Thanks Daisy. Iím glad I posted too! I donít know what Iíd do without BabblersÖ

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Dinah

Posted by Tamar on February 25, 2006, at 10:16:07

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS Ľ Tamar, posted by Dinah on February 24, 2006, at 19:45:50

> I *do* know it's not easy. Especially since I know there's a strong bias in your area of the world towards CBT rather than transference based therapies.

Quite! (Grrrrr...)

> I just hate to see you hurt, that's all. It's ok for me of course. But I hate to see it in anyone else, especially someone as terrific as you are.

It's strange, isn't it? I feel that it's OK for me to cut, but I hate to think of you hurting yourself because you're so wonderful.

(((((Dinah)))))

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ sleepygirl

Posted by Tamar on February 25, 2006, at 10:17:07

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar, posted by sleepygirl on February 25, 2006, at 0:34:22

> oh Tamar...you're certainly not repulsive
> I'm sorry you're hurting
> -sleepygirl

Thanks for your kind words, sleepygirl.

Tamar

 

(((((Tamar))))))

Posted by happyflower on February 25, 2006, at 22:21:14

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ sleepygirl, posted by Tamar on February 25, 2006, at 10:17:07

I have been trying to come up with something helpful to say (like you always do for me), but I don't know what to say. All I do know is that I am so sorry you are in so much pain. It sounds really scary to me. When is your next appointment? Please take care of yourself. I wish I could magically make all the pain go away for you. You are truely a wonderful women who helps so many, I hope someday to be like you. :-)

 

(((((Tamar))))))

Posted by caraher on February 26, 2006, at 17:56:35

In reply to (((((Tamar)))))), posted by happyflower on February 25, 2006, at 22:21:14

I'll echo the sentiment: you are NOT repulsive! And I'll echo the wish for a speedy recover from ALL your wounds as well

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by fairywings on February 28, 2006, at 23:30:17

In reply to Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Daisym, posted by Tamar on February 25, 2006, at 10:13:15


> I wanted to hurt myself again today but I was able to resist. It wasnít easy; the urges were strong, and also my legs donít match and I wanted to get them looking the same (I think Iím completely nuts!). But Iíve decided my legs donít need to match; maybe Iíll wear odd socks too!

Oh please don't do this! I did it to my arms bec. they didn't match, now I regret it. I'm sorry you took that next step in cutting your breasts. I"m sure they are beautiful and are begging you not to hurt them.

Doesn't hurt turn into anger, and anger not expressed turns inward, and then to depression....seems I've read that somewhere. Probably here just don't remember.

Can you ask your T how he feels about transference? Do you see your T as a father figure? Would you be able to tell him that? Never know he might surprise you.

I hope it feels better soon,
(((hugs)))
fw

 

Re: Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS) Ľ Tamar

Posted by orchid on March 6, 2006, at 20:14:09

In reply to Iíve changed my mind: itís too scary (TRIGGERS), posted by Tamar on February 24, 2006, at 9:27:58

I am very sorry you are hurting so bad. I actually originally thought it is a very bad idea to go back to the same T towards whom you had intense transference. Later I came to think maybe it will be ok for you, but now I changed my mind again. Would you consider going to a female T? I really think it would help you a lot more and much less of this heart break. It will get really difficult for you to handle if your transference comes back in full force again - now that you are cutting. I was actually really quite surprised that after reading babble and seeing the hardships of everyone, you chose to go back to your T again. Why put yourself in transference knowingly? I think with every pull back from him, you will hurt even more.

Please take care of yourself. I care quite a bit about you, and it is really heart breaking to see you hurting so much. I am sorry I can't help you more these days, since I don't have a connection. (I am in the US right now, staying in a hotel and will be here for a month or so and the hotel internet connection is awfully bad).


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