Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 569871

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Can anyone make any sense of my feelings? (nm)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:34:51

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 16:36:11

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:18:32

What people call as romantic love nowadyas is not really romantic love. It is also only projection and infatuation for the most part. That is why after a year or two the love dies down when you realize what the other person really is.

Real love comes when you see the other person for what he/she really is fully, acknowledge their good things and bad things with full heart, and yet you like the person.

That said, what happens between a T and a client is different from what happens between a man and a woman to a significant extent. The interactions and feelings might be similiar, but the degree of inequality is what makes it different. Plus the fact that for you, there is one T. But for the T there are many patients. This is one of the major differences. A man in a normal world doesn't talk to 20 women in the same level of intensity in a week. Whereas a T does. Don't you think that makes it very different? Plus he knows all about you, your weakness, your strength etc, but you don't know that much about him. You see only his best parts. But he sees both your best and the worst parts.

Plus you pay. That is a huge difference. With real love, you don't pay the other person for listening to you and caring for you and spending some time with you.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:29

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

OK. Hereís what I thinkÖ

I think you are special to him and he wants to come to your concert partly because he likes music and partly because he acknowledges that your playing is related to your therapy and thereby to his work with you.

I think his continued chatting with you after the end of your session and 25 minutes into his lunch break is a bit of boundary pushing and while he no doubt enjoys it, he probably has a few concerns about it, and it might cause him to strengthen other boundariesÖ for example, by saying you arenít VERY special to him and he doesnít want to be VERY special to you.

But I think itís inevitable that he will be very special to you. I believe he ought to understand that many clients feel their therapists are very special. I worry about that more than I worry about the 25 minutes chatting after session. It sounds to me as if he isnít aware enough of your likely responses to him.

UnlessÖ he means that he doesnít want to be VERY special in the sense that he doesnít want to encourage you to think there could be a relationship outside therapy.

Nevertheless, you have a relationship outside therapy if he chats to you during his lunch hour. But thatís probably as far as heís prepared to go.

I am sure youíre right when you think heís probably attracted to you. Iíve never seen you, but I suspect that most men are attracted to you. You have a very appealing sense of humour and honesty that I think almost any (straight) man would find alluring.

HOWEVERÖ most therapists simply will not get involved in friendships or romantic relationships with their clients. It would be risking his job if he did. And if heís read the literature, he knows that it would also mean exploiting you because you are vulnerable right now. If he were prepared to exploit you, he wouldnít be the good guy you believe he is.

On the other handÖ I do believe that there can be real love between a therapist and a client. And also real attraction. Some of it may be transference, but some of it can be real love, attraction and affection.

The challenge in those circumstances is to enjoy the real love for what it is. And believe me, Iím still working on that! My own attempt to solve this is to acknowledge my love for my ex-therapist and try to focus on what I *can* have rather than on what I *canít* have. Itís easier said than done, of course... And itís hard to be satisfied with only part of what you want. But if you can enjoy looking at him in therapy and at the gym, if you can enjoy being the focus of his attention in session, if you can enjoy having sexual fantasies about him, and if you can enjoy some mild flirtation with him (knowing that heís probably interested in you too), then thatís a lot of enjoyment.

Iíve often wished my therapist were so attracted to me that he would throw caution to the wind and risk everything for a couple of hours with me. And of course, in that scenario, he wouldnít regret one second of it. And I curse my average looks and my extra weight and our marriages and his profession and all that stuff.

ButÖ I know that even if I were a supermodel he wouldnít f*ck me. And whatís better is that even though Iím not a supermodel, he liked me and enjoyed working with me.

And youíre in an even better situation: you know in your heart that heís attracted to you. Even if heíd never do anything about it, you know heís thought about it. And so you know that itís something of a sacrifice to him to maintain professional boundaries. Unfortunately, part of maintaining those boundaries means never telling you if he feels attracted to you. So even if youíre sure itís true, youíll never get him to confess it, and thatís a real bummer.

Nevertheless, heís thinking primarily of how to work with you so that you can find lasting happiness in lifeÖ I have no doubt that itís a sacrifice for him not to throw caution to the wind. But in a way itís also the ultimate compliment to you that he doesnít.

Just my two cents.

Tamar

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:46

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 16:36:11

I get the unequalnes of power and the fact that you pay the T for his help. But couldn't it still happen? I mean, like I used to work with a lot of guys all day long, but I didn't fall in love with any of them, but I guesss eventually I did, years later, which is my DH.
I know he sees clients all day, but isn't it at least possible for him to fall in love with someone once he got to know them. I can say that my T doesn't know everything about me and I don't know everything about him. But I do see his faults, and he has told me many, so I see him as a regular guy.

But anyways, this is getting off track, I just want to make sense of what my T is doing and how I am feeling. I know about the common feelings in therapy, after all I am a babbler . Just because he is my T , I am reading his reactions and what he says all wrong? So are you saying the fact that since he is my T , he really doesn't like me because a T really can't care about a client or really like them because the client pays them or because he see's clients all day long?

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by orchid on October 21, 2005, at 17:06:31

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ orchid, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:46

I am not saying that he doesn't like you or doesn't care about you.

What I am saying is that he probably does both (he probably does care about you and he probably does like you quite a bit) - but maybe you are taking it for more than what it is worth.

Maybe it is even possible for a T to genuinely fall in love with a client. But I think the chances of it happening are pretty slim - maybe just next to nil. Attraction - definitely yes. But real love - very highly questionable. I mean, once you know the inside/out of many women, I think Ts will lose the interest.

Plus what is the use anyway? He will never acknowledge it to you, and if you ask he will probably give you a non commital reply. It is really frustrating.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:43:30

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

I'd be upfront and tell him what you've noticed and ask him what it means. It'll put a damper on the romantic aspect of it, but maybe a damper needs to be put. If I remember, your marriage is troubled, you're attracted to your therapist. And now he's giving signs that he's attracted back.

Yes, it sounds as if he's attracted back.

But now what? If he acts on it, he risks his license, and hopefully his self respect. And you lose an important therapeutic relationship that's supposed to help you sort out your marriage, not add more confusion.

My therapist put a few toes over the line, not romantically, but as someone who needs help. And it was hard but I'm calling him on it, or at least the more flagrant toe crossings. The ones that make me feel uncomfortable. The ones I like are a little harder to enforce. But those boundaries are there for a reason. Even after you don't need him as a therapist anymore.

 

Or have I gotten confused?

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:02:07

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 17:43:30

Which is entirely possible. My concentration level is poor these days.

If so, half my rant is senseless, and never mind.

But the other half is still worthwhile. :)

He can't act on any attraction he feels without seriously jeopardizing his livelihood, professional reputation, and self respect. That's not a really sound basis for any relationship. And this is a road that can lead to a lot of pain. It's fine if it stays a flirtation, but it's already involving boundary bendings. Once those boundaries bend, it's ever so easy to bend them just a bit more.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:44:36

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:29

Hi Tamar! I am glad you responded, I really like how you say things and you seem to really understand me (which is hard for most people). It is kinda of funny that your post is longer than my record breaking one! LOL
>
> I think you are special to him and he wants to come to your concert partly because he likes music and partly because he acknowledges that your playing is related to your therapy and thereby to his work with you.

I think you are right about this, I think he kinda sees me as one his accomplishements too and I think since music is so important to him, having a person who used to think music was my life, start playing again because I feel good, because of his help, has to be an ego booster for him. Most clients you don't get to see proof of the success of therapy. Here he can see it publicly for himself.

> I think his continued chatting with you after the end of your session and 25 minutes into his lunch break is a bit of boundary pushing and while he no doubt enjoys it, he probably has a few concerns about it, and it might cause him to strengthen other boundariesÖ for example, by saying you arenít VERY special to him and he doesnít want to be VERY special to you.

One thing that is interesting is that the "special conversation" took place months before he started to loosen his boundries. So he really didn't tighten any boundries, he has loosened them in the last couple months of sessions. Plus the disclosure are really getting more personal too.

He still keeps his phone boundries very professional. He will not chat with me on the phone, only business, usually making or changing an appointment. He has told me why he isn't so friendly on the phone, and I am okay with it.

> But I think itís inevitable that he will be very special to you. I believe he ought to understand that many clients feel their therapists are very special. I worry about that more than I worry about the 25 minutes chatting after session. It sounds to me as if he isnít aware enough of your likely responses to him.

What do you mean by likely responses? I am not following what you mean. The 25 minutes of chatting come after my session of 50 minutes, which is right before his lunch hour. But he seems to like to keep scheduling for the hour before his lunch, which you know I don't mind one bit.

> UnlessÖ he means that he doesnít want to be VERY special in the sense that he doesnít want to encourage you to think there could be a relationship outside therapy.

In the beginning, and before we saw each other at the gym, he was very clear about the feduciairy relationship between us and that I am not very special to him (like his wife, or daughter, or family). We had this conversation the session after I quit because he said he was good liar. Then I felt bad, and sent him that card. We never talked about the card, but maybe that is what sparked off the I am not very special to him conversation. We haven't had any of the I am not special to him talks for several months. In fact it almost seems like he can't deny those feeling anymore.

> Nevertheless, you have a relationship outside therapy if he chats to you during his lunch hour. But thatís probably as far as heís prepared to go.

You are probably right, about this. He has been a T for a long time and trains other T's too, so unless he is truely in love with me and what to wait the 2 year period, things won't progress past this.

> I am sure youíre right when you think heís probably attracted to you. Iíve never seen you, but I suspect that most men are attracted to you. You have a very appealing sense of humour and honesty that I think almost any (straight) man would find alluring.

Thanks! LOL I am an honest person, maybe too honest, but you don't think gay guys would like me? LOL just kidding, giving you a hard time! :) You know sometime I catch him just looking at me with those bedroom eyes if you know what I mean. Once I looked at him and said" What" , like what are you looking at!

> HOWEVERÖ most therapists simply will not get involved in friendships or romantic relationships with their clients. It would be risking his job if he did. And if heís read the literature, he knows that it would also mean exploiting you because you are vulnerable right now. If he were prepared to exploit you, he wouldnít be the good guy you believe he is.

You are right about this, I wouldn't expect him to ever make a move on me while I am married or while I am currently a client of his. I am not sure about after therapy though.

> On the other handÖ I do believe that there can be real love between a therapist and a client. And also real attraction. Some of it may be transference, but some of it can be real love, attraction and affection.

Thank you for that, I believe it too.

> The challenge in those circumstances is to enjoy the real love for what it is. And believe me, Iím still working on that! My own attempt to solve this is to acknowledge my love for my ex-therapist and try to focus on what I *can* have rather than on what I *canít* have. Itís easier said than done, of course... And itís hard to be satisfied with only part of what you want. But if you can enjoy looking at him in therapy and at the gym, if you can enjoy being the focus of his attention in session, if you can enjoy having sexual fantasies about him, and if you can enjoy some mild flirtation with him (knowing that heís probably interested in you too), then thatís a lot of enjoyment.

Thank you for the letting me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I can't be his true friend or lover, I can at least enjoy what I do share with him. I do have a lot of fun with the fantasies, of course all babblers know that by now. LOL

> Iíve often wished my therapist were so attracted to me that he would throw caution to the wind and risk everything for a couple of hours with me. And of course, in that scenario, he wouldnít regret one second of it. And I curse my average looks and my extra weight and our marriages and his profession and all that stuff.

Hey, I think I am average looks too and overweight and married. He even sees me without my hair done and no makeup at the gym! LOL I guess he is seeing the real me!

> ButÖ I know that even if I were a supermodel he wouldnít f*ck me. And whatís better is that even though Iím not a supermodel, he liked me and enjoyed working with me.

I think being liked for who you are is much more important than someone only liking you for how you look!
> And youíre in an even better situation: you know in your heart that heís attracted to you. Even if heíd never do anything about it, you know heís thought about it. And so you know that itís something of a sacrifice to him to maintain professional boundaries.

I guess I never thought about him struggling with this either. I guess it can go both ways especially since he is also married, and if he knows I like him and he really likes me.

Unfortunately, part of maintaining those boundaries means never telling you if he feels attracted to you. So even if youíre sure itís true, youíll never get him to confess it, and thatís a real bummer.

Yup, a bummer, but I think I don't need him to tell me I think I already know without the words.

> Nevertheless, heís thinking primarily of how to work with you so that you can find lasting happiness in lifeÖ I have no doubt that itís a sacrifice for him not to throw caution to the wind. But in a way itís also the ultimate compliment to you that he doesnít.

You are too funny! I guess I will just have to keep my dreams of him throwing caution to the wind. LOL
Just a nosey question, Tamar, but what is your profession? I think you would make such a great T yourself!
> Just my two cents.

Thanks again for your support and understanding me more than I do myself. I feel much better tonight because of what you said. I guess I just need to treasure what I do have and not worry about it. If it was meant to be, then it will happen, right? :)

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:52:39

In reply to Or have I gotten confused?, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:02:07

I think you are making perfect sense to me, but then what do I know, I am messed up tonight! LOL
You are correct in everything you are saying. Getting involved with me would ruin his marriage(if it is a good one) and effect his career. I don't see doing anything to do that to himself. He has been a T for over 25 years and married almost as long. But I do feel we still have a special connection. Not a love feeling, but a cosmic feeling I can't explain. A lot of weird circumstances have happened between us, it almost feel like we were meant to be drawn together for some purpose, I just don't what. Mabye he is just the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully. I still don't know what it all means. Thanks Dinah! :)

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused?

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:57:08

In reply to Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:52:39

> Mabye he is just the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully.

"Just"???

That sounds pretty cosmic to me. If you say the same sentence without the just

"Mabye he is the guy who was suppose to help me heal my life so I can live it fully."

I'd say that is a wonderful way to fully express whatever feelings either of you may have.

 

Re: Or have I gotten confused? Ľ Dinah

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 19:10:21

In reply to Re: Or have I gotten confused?, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 18:57:08

Sorry, I didn't realize how minializing that sounded. Yes, he is the one who was meant to help me to live my life to the fullest. Does that sound better? Maybe that is what I am feeling mostly.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 19:23:26

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 18:44:36

Hi Happyflower!

> It is kinda of funny that your post is longer than my record breaking one! LOL

YeahÖ sorry about that. I need to learn to be more concise!

> I think you are right about this, I think he kinda sees me as one his accomplishements too and I think since music is so important to him, having a person who used to think music was my life, start playing again because I feel good, because of his help, has to be an ego booster for him. Most clients you don't get to see proof of the success of therapy. Here he can see it publicly for himself.

Yes, and itís always gratifying to see the results of your work!

> One thing that is interesting is that the "special conversation" took place months before he started to loosen his boundries. So he really didn't tighten any boundries, he has loosened them in the last couple months of sessions. Plus the disclosure are really getting more personal too.

I see what you mean. So perhaps it feels as if he is getting more intimate with you?

> What do you mean by likely responses? I am not following what you mean. The 25 minutes of chatting come after my session of 50 minutes, which is right before his lunch hour. But he seems to like to keep scheduling for the hour before his lunch, which you know I don't mind one bit.

By Ďlikely responsesí I mean that he should know that a person with abuse issues is likely to feel a strong attachment to her therapist; in other words, that you are likely to feel he is very special. I think people with issues that are less personal can sometimes get through therapy without such strong feelings, but it seems to me that anyone with abuse issues is likely to experience very strong feelings about safety and trust, and therapists should probably be aware of that. But I donít know whether the theory that therapists read is explicit about thatÖ

> In the beginning, and before we saw each other at the gym, he was very clear about the feduciairy relationship between us and that I am not very special to him (like his wife, or daughter, or family). We had this conversation the session after I quit because he said he was good liar. Then I felt bad, and sent him that card. We never talked about the card, but maybe that is what sparked off the I am not very special to him conversation. We haven't had any of the I am not special to him talks for several months. In fact it almost seems like he can't deny those feeling anymore.

Well, it seems thereís not much point in having that kind of conversation. If you feel he is very special, then thatís simply how you feel and he has to deal with it. And if he feels you are very special, then thatís simply how he feels and he should take it to consultation with a colleague!

> You are probably right, about this. He has been a T for a long time and trains other T's too, so unless he is truely in love with me and what to wait the 2 year period, things won't progress past this.

The difficult thing is that itís almost impossible to know whether a love affair would survive past the two year period. If you were to do it properly, you shouldnít really have any contact after the end of therapy for two years. But 99 times out of 100 you wonít have the same feelings for him after two years of no contact. The transference that any woman would feel for any man she falls in love with usually wonít survive two years of no contact. Iíve always said I fell in love with my husband the day I met him, but I know it was largely transference and if Iíd had to wait two years I probably would have found someone else (maybe Iím fickle). And if you spend two years waiting for your T and longing for him, itís probably more obsession than love.

> Thanks! LOL I am an honest person, maybe too honest, but you don't think gay guys would like me? LOL just kidding, giving you a hard time! :) You know sometime I catch him just looking at me with those bedroom eyes if you know what I mean. Once I looked at him and said" What" , like what are you looking at!

Yeah, I reckon gay guys would like you too! Just donít count on changing them (LOL!). What did your T say when you caught him looking at you?

> You are right about this, I wouldn't expect him to ever make a move on me while I am married or while I am currently a client of his. I am not sure about after therapy though.

Iíve always thought that if itís meant to be it will work out, and things work out best if you donít try too hard. At the moment there are a lot of things stacked against a relationship. Heís married, youíre married, heís your therapistÖ it couldnít be much harder if he were an alien from another planet. Even after therapy there are a lot of ethical issues. I do think itís possible, but itís by no means easy to establish a friendship (let alone a relationship) after therapy. There are some pretty stiff guidelines. I guess I would say itís probably something you need to talk about in therapy, even though that might feel like youíre making it impossible. One thing I do know is that itís horrible to find after termination that you long for something youíre not getting and you never took the opportunity to talk about it.

> Thank you for the letting me see the light at the end of the tunnel. Even if I can't be his true friend or lover, I can at least enjoy what I do share with him. I do have a lot of fun with the fantasies, of course all babblers know that by now. LOL

Fantasies are for enjoying! Sometimes they can also tell you something about yourself and open up areas of your sexuality that you never thought about beforeÖ I had an incredible fantasy about two men while I was in therapy, which was a real eye opener for me because Iíd always though such ideas were very dangerousÖ

> Hey, I think I am average looks too and overweight and married. He even sees me without my hair done and no makeup at the gym! LOL I guess he is seeing the real me!

The real you is probably what he likes the most!

> Yup, a bummer, but I think I don't need him to tell me I think I already know without the words.

Yes. Itís always nice to hear the words. But if you can know without the words, thatís even better. If someone shows it without words, you know they really mean it.

> Just a nosey question, Tamar, but what is your profession? I think you would make such a great T yourself!

Iím a teacher! I donít think Iíd be a good T. I donít think I could handle all the negative transference stuff. Clients getting angry with meÖ ouch! I take everything very personally. But thank you for the compliment!

> Thanks again for your support and understanding me more than I do myself. I feel much better tonight because of what you said. I guess I just need to treasure what I do have and not worry about it. If it was meant to be, then it will happen, right? :)

Yeah. Treasure what you have. Every moment. The love that happens in therapy is so beautiful and so profoundÖ itís very special. Itís natural to hope for more, but if you can find comfort in what you have, then youíre already doing very well, I think!

Tamar

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:29:01

In reply to Confused, need some advice, please help please, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 14:25:15

hi happyflower,
I enjoy reading your posts, short or long!

hmmmmm...it does sound like he has interest in you beyond the therapeutic relationship. Whether it's romantic, friendly, or something in-between is hard to say. But it's DEFINITELY more than the typical client!

If it were up to you to decide what happens, what do you most want out of this situation? I know he's cute and attractive, but I believe you've also said that you don't want him to interfere in your "real" life and "real" relationships. Would you want something to happen with him? If something DID happen, what would happen with therapy and with your family life?

Would you be OK with him attending a concert?

It's a very interesting situation!

take care and good luck,
JenStar

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar

Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:30:57

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 16:54:29

Tamar, what a fantastic and well thought-out post!

:)

JenStar

 

I agree completely Ľ JenStar

Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:36:41

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar, posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:30:57

Tamar always floors me with her ability to combine reason with an incredible level of empathy.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 20:07:11

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 19:23:26

> > It is kinda of funny that your post is longer than my record breaking one! LOL
>
> YeahÖ sorry about that. I need to learn to be more concise!
Tamar,
I am just joking, I appreciate every word you have to say. You just make a lot of sense out of all my nonscence. But now I am feeling a little weird knowing you are a teacher, and I can't spell anything right! LOL :)

>> I see what you mean. So perhaps it feels as if he is getting more intimate with you?

Yes, I feel like it is really seeming like a close friendship. He asks for my advice on his garden almost every session. We talk about our love of music every session. We talk about working out every session. He has even showed me pictures of his daugher , and old pictures of him and his family doing races and stuff. He told me he used to play the guitar, so much stuff I can't remember. He has told me personal medical stuff about him too. I know about his parents, siblings and their lives. I don't know to much about his wife except she is a teacher at a college. He did tell me last session he has been married 23 years, mostly happy.

>> By Ďlikely responsesí I mean that he should know that a person with abuse issues is likely to feel a strong attachment to her therapist; in other words, that you are likely to feel he is very special. I think people with issues that are less personal can sometimes get through therapy without such strong feelings, but it seems to me that anyone with abuse issues is likely to experience very strong feelings about safety and trust, and therapists should probably be aware of that. But I donít know whether the theory that therapists read is explicit about thatÖ

Okay, I understand what you mean, now. He should know this stuff I would think, because he specializes in trama therapy.

>
> Well, it seems thereís not much point in having that kind of conversation. If you feel he is very special, then thatís simply how you feel and he has to deal with it. And if he feels you are very special, then thatís simply how he feels and he should take it to consultation with a colleague!

LOL, you are making me laugh! You are right though.
>
> The difficult thing is that itís almost impossible to know whether a love affair would survive past the two year period. If you were to do it properly, you shouldnít really have any contact after the end of therapy for two years. But 99 times out of 100 you wonít have the same feelings for him after two years of no contact. The transference that any woman would feel for any man she falls in love with usually wonít survive two years of no contact. Iíve always said I fell in love with my husband the day I met him, but I know it was largely transference and if Iíd had to wait two years I probably would have found someone else (maybe Iím fickle). And if you spend two years waiting for your T and longing for him, itís probably more obsession than love.

Yup, I think this is a good point. But then again how many relationships last anyways. It
seems like all relationship have the odds way against them lasting.

> Yeah, I reckon gay guys would like you too! Just donít count on changing them (LOL!). What did your T say when you caught him looking at you?

LOL, nothing get past you! Well he just sort of shrugged his shoulders like "nothing" . It was a weird moment, because I was just chatting away looking out the window, and then looked at him, and he was just looking at me like I was the most beautiful thing he has ever seen. It almost took my breath away to be honest. All I could say was "what"? lol I am a little shy when in comes to stuff like that.
> Iíve always thought that if itís meant to be it will work out, and things work out best if you donít try too hard. At the moment there are a lot of things stacked against a relationship. Heís married, youíre married, heís your therapistÖ it couldnít be much harder if he were an alien from another planet. Even after therapy there are a lot of ethical issues. I do think itís possible, but itís by no means easy to establish a friendship (let alone a relationship) after therapy. There are some pretty stiff guidelines. I guess I would say itís probably something you need to talk about in therapy, even though that might feel like youíre making it impossible. One thing I do know is that itís horrible to find after termination that you long for something youíre not getting and you never took the opportunity to talk about it.

Yeah, I know about the things being stacked up against us. I guess I really don't care right now. I do have this connection to him that I can't explain. It is something I felt the first time I saw him . It is something that I sprititially feel. I have only felt it with my grandma, and old friend who died, and my new grandson. I really can't explain it in words. Then you know it is kinda of cosmic that we have so much in common, really wierd stuff too. Like we both own the same Grandma Moses print, which isn't common at all. (he has it in his waiting room. His sisters B-day is the same as mine, we run into the gym that one day. I didn't know he worked out there, and he is only there a couple days a month, and then to meet at the exact time. Then there was this instance were I went to a local garden that is about 3 hours away from my house, my DH refused to go, even for mothers day. Well I found out that it is in the same town that he grew up in, in fact he was home that day to see his mother. So we were only about 15 minutes from each other, 3 hours away from where we live. I could go on and on about these weird things and not so weird things.
>
> Fantasies are for enjoying! Sometimes they can also tell you something about yourself and open up areas of your sexuality that you never thought about beforeÖ I had an incredible fantasy about two men while I was in therapy, which was a real eye opener for me because Iíd always though such ideas were very dangerousÖ

Hmmm. TWO men! WOW, now that sounds interesting! LOL

>> The real you is probably what he likes the most!
Yes. Itís always nice to hear the words. But if you can know without the words, thatís even better. If someone shows it without words, you know they really mean it.

You know you have just made my night, you are so sweet and nice. :)
>> Yeah. Treasure what you have. Every moment. The love that happens in therapy is so beautiful and so profoundÖ itís very special. Itís natural to hope for more, but if you can find comfort in what you have, then youíre already doing very well, I think!

Thanks, I think I will really think about this. How long was you in therapy with your exT? It sound like you are doing good too. :)

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ JenStar

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 20:19:25

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 19:29:01

> hi happyflower,
> I enjoy reading your posts, short or long!
Thanks! :)
> hmmmmm...it does sound like he has interest in you beyond the therapeutic relationship. Whether it's romantic, friendly, or something in-between is hard to say. But it's DEFINITELY more than the typical client!

Okay, thanks for seeing this. I just didn't know if I was reading too much into what he is doing and saying. Thanks for validating what I am thinking.
> If it were up to you to decide what happens, what do you most want out of this situation? I know he's cute and attractive, but I believe you've also said that you don't want him to interfere in your "real" life and "real" relationships. Would you want something to happen with him? If something DID happen, what would happen with therapy and with your family life?

Okay, if it was up to me, I would end my unhappy marriage. Start dating others including my T only if he left his wife, for a least a year or more. Then I would take my time on getting to know him on that level. Then I guess I would take it from there. As far as therapy goes, I am almost done with that, and If I need more, then I would go to another one. I think my T has helped me with the most difficult things that has hurt me in my life. I really think I am healed from all of that stuff and honesty, I think I can handle anything else that comes my way currently on my own. Yes, my kids would be hurt if their dad moved out. They would miss him really bad, and it would something to work on with them. But right now they are seeing their parents not happy with each other at all.
Our bad relationship is affecting them in a bad way right now. It is sad, I try not to let it happen, but they see right through it.

> Would you be OK with him attending a concert?
Yes, I would be flattered! LOL He warned me that me might dance in the asies and sing, go trumpets, play that music! LOL He even did the (very bad) dance for me! LOL
> take care and good luck,
Thanks Jen for your support. I am feeling so much better tonight! :)

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by daisym on October 21, 2005, at 20:34:48

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ JenStar, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 20:19:25

I'm late to this thread though I have been reading. I guess I just want to add that it seems perfectly reasonable to feel how you are feeling: my therapist likes to say, "who wouldn't want to feel special?" And you know what? He does say he cares about me, that he worries and that what I feel for him is OK and special. And he says he is flattered and touched. And he does all this in a way that doesn't send me any mixed messages. I think I heard it described once (Lott?) as a hot house flower -- therapy love can survive only in the consulting room, but with in this setting it is a very beautiful thing indeed.

I like thinking about it that way. I'm glad you are feeling better.

What does your husband think about your therapist coming to the concert? I'm not sure mine would like it.

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 20:37:13

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ Tamar, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 20:07:11

> I am just joking, I appreciate every word you have to say. You just make a lot of sense out of all my nonscence. But now I am feeling a little weird knowing you are a teacher, and I can't spell anything right! LOL :)

I never think less of people for their spelling! And anyway, spelling online is a whole different thing; weíre all typing in a hurry. I make plenty of errors myself so Iím not about to criticise you!

> Yes, I feel like it is really seeming like a close friendship. He asks for my advice on his garden almost every session. We talk about our love of music every session. We talk about working out every session. He has even showed me pictures of his daugher , and old pictures of him and his family doing races and stuff. He told me he used to play the guitar, so much stuff I can't remember. He has told me personal medical stuff about him too. I know about his parents, siblings and their lives. I don't know to much about his wife except she is a teacher at a college. He did tell me last session he has been married 23 years, mostly happy.

Yeah, thatís quite a lot of disclosure. My therapist told me precisely three things about himself: he used to live in the city where I grew up, he used to smoke, and heís related to someone who works near me (he only told me that in case I knew his relative; I didnít)Ö Iím sure you really do have a lot in common with your therapist.

> Okay, I understand what you mean, now. He should know this stuff I would think, because he specializes in trama therapy.

That makes sense.

> Yup, I think this is a good point. But then again how many relationships last anyways. It
> seems like all relationship have the odds way against them lasting.

I think if relationships last beyond a couple of years itís usually because both people want the same things, whether itís marriage or careers or children or sci-fi conventions... whatever. But itís a matter of basic life satisfaction. Mutual attraction just isnít enough to hold a relationship together.

> LOL, nothing get past you! Well he just sort of shrugged his shoulders like "nothing" . It was a weird moment, because I was just chatting away looking out the window, and then looked at him, and he was just looking at me like I was the most beautiful thing he has ever seen. It almost took my breath away to be honest. All I could say was "what"? lol I am a little shy when in comes to stuff like that.

Wow! That must have been an amazing moment! Yeah, what can you say? Iíd also have said ďWhat?Ē It must have been lovely to see him looking at you like that. I remember my therapist looking at me onceÖ he tilted his head to one side and licked his lipsÖ To this day I keep telling myself he must have had sore lips, but frankly I donít want to believe itÖ

> Yeah, I know about the things being stacked up against us. I guess I really don't care right now. I do have this connection to him that I can't explain. It is something I felt the first time I saw him . It is something that I sprititially feel. I have only felt it with my grandma, and old friend who died, and my new grandson. I really can't explain it in words. Then you know it is kinda of cosmic that we have so much in common, really wierd stuff too. Like we both own the same Grandma Moses print, which isn't common at all. (he has it in his waiting room. His sisters B-day is the same as mine, we run into the gym that one day. I didn't know he worked out there, and he is only there a couple days a month, and then to meet at the exact time. Then there was this instance were I went to a local garden that is about 3 hours away from my house, my DH refused to go, even for mothers day. Well I found out that it is in the same town that he grew up in, in fact he was home that day to see his mother. So we were only about 15 minutes from each other, 3 hours away from where we live. I could go on and on about these weird things and not so weird things.

I know the sort of thing you mean. My mother says she has that kind of connection with my first daughter, and my father says he has it with my second daughter. Life is full of these strange connections and when they stack up with one person, well, it can feel as if thereís something really important going on. I get that.

> Hmmm. TWO men! WOW, now that sounds interesting! LOL

YeahÖ itís just a fantasy though. I donít think Iíd act on itÖ unless my therapist and one of my colleagues Ė no! stop it! Bad Tamar!

> Thanks, I think I will really think about this. How long was you in therapy with your exT? It sound like you are doing good too. :)

Just six months. I want more. Iím still thinking I might go back one dayÖ

Tamar

 

Thanks, JenStar and Dinah! (nm)

Posted by Tamar on October 21, 2005, at 20:39:19

In reply to I agree completely Ľ JenStar, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2005, at 19:36:41

 

One obvious question remains: Ľ happyflower

Posted by crazy teresa on October 21, 2005, at 20:59:23

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ JenStar, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 20:19:25

Is he bringing his wife to the concert?

 

Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ daisym

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 21:11:16

In reply to Re: Confused, need some advice, please help please Ľ happyflower, posted by daisym on October 21, 2005, at 20:34:48

> I'm late to this thread though I have been reading. I guess I just want to add that it seems perfectly reasonable to feel how you are feeling: my therapist likes to say, "who wouldn't want to feel special?" And you know what? He does say he cares about me, that he worries and that what I feel for him is OK and special. And he says he is flattered and touched. And he does all this in a way that doesn't send me any mixed messages. I think I heard it described once (Lott?) as a hot house flower -- therapy love can survive only in the consulting room, but with in this setting it is a very beautiful thing indeed.

It is nice that your T can be honest about what he feels about you and even tell you. I feel like my T has conflicting feelings for me. I don't know if my T is sending mixed messages or not, or maybe I am just reading them that way because I am attracted to him.

> What does your husband think about your therapist coming to the concert? I'm not sure mine would like it.

I told my DH that he was my T might come. I don't know how he feels about it because honestly we haven't had a conversation in months about anything important. He mentioned once that he thought my T had a thing for me, but he has also said that about my trumpet teacher too, and other guys I come into contact with like my allergist.
I told my trumpet teacher, and he was impressed, he said his T would never come to on of his concerts. LOL

 

Re: One obvious question remains: Ľ crazy teresa

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 21:14:06

In reply to One obvious question remains: Ľ happyflower, posted by crazy teresa on October 21, 2005, at 20:59:23

> Is he bringing his wife to the concert?
>
LOL!!!! Now I wondered about that, especially since it is at the university that she teaches at! LOL Now another question is, Does he say hey I am going to see one of my clients play in a concert, and by the way it is a she, and I am attracted to her. I wonder if he would tell his wife, and what he would say to her about it. HMMMMM>>>

 

Re: One obvious question remains:(crazyT)

Posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 21:17:14

In reply to Re: One obvious question remains: Ľ crazy teresa, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 21:14:06

Now if he did bring his wife, I think my fantasies would be totally crushed to pieces. I don't know maybe she could get run over by a bus or something. I know that isn't very nice, now is it.

 

Re: One obvious question remains: Ľ happyflower

Posted by JenStar on October 21, 2005, at 21:49:47

In reply to Re: One obvious question remains: Ľ crazy teresa, posted by happyflower on October 21, 2005, at 21:14:06

Maybe you'll figure out more about the attraction thing based on whether he brings his wife/kids/etc.

If he DOES bring them all, then maybe he is trying to be as friendly as he can because he likes you, but still wants to stay within the boundaries. Maybe he'll bring the wife as a reminder to himself to stay "good."

If he does NOT bring her...if he comes alone...well, that will raise more questions than it answers! :)

Would it be weird to introduce him to your hubby and friends and band-mates? How do you think that would go?

This is a very unique situation. I hope you don't get hurt in all this. It's fun to hear about, but above all I hope that he treats you with respect and doesn't hurt you!

JenStar


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