Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 439682

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Judy1 judy1

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:04:32

In reply to thank you Pfinstegg, posted by judy1 on January 21, 2005, at 14:50:42

I wanted to say I am very sorry about your relationship with your T and how hurt you were. And to thank you for what you feel is support you were very nice to me in chat. So please know I am sorry for your pain. That being said...I do not live in a cookie cutter world and do not think everything ends up the same. Nor would I be crushed if/when it ends... But again thank you. :)

HUGS

 

Re: A COMMENT TO ALL PLS? Fallen4MyT

Posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 17:10:47

In reply to Re: A COMMENT TO ALL PLS? Pfinstegg, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 14:43:03

I do think it was wrong of him not to refer you on to another therapist at the point where he realised he was no longer considering his response to you to be counter transference. He could have told you that he was referring you on because he believed that he loved you. He could have given you his number or whatever and told you to contact him in two years if you wanted to. That would have given you both two years to really have a think about it. It would have given you the opportunity to talk to another confidant about the situation. Because as soon as he had told you that he really cannot be your therapist any more. Not because he 'isn't allowed' or anything like that - but because he is acting on HIS feelings and desires at that point. Not solely for your welfare. That IMO is the reason behind that rule.

It seems to me that the APA is being very generous in allowing relationships after two years. It is their concession that maybe transference and counter-transference can develop into a proper relationship. That after time apart a relationship could develop on equal grounds. But why couldn't you both have waited? I would think that if you really love him you would not let him risk his career for you like that. Not when you guys could just wait. I would think that if he really loved you he would want you to be able to take some time on this and really be sure. He would want you to see another therapist to help you with all the stuff you went into therapy for. It is very suspicious to me that there is such urgency and hurry. It may seem flattering but it is not the material that lasting happy relationships are based on.

And this isn't just about you. So many others find themself in this or similar situations.

So while I am happy for your feelings, I really cannot condone what you guys are doing.

I don't understand why you guys can't wait the two years - if you really love each other.

 

Re: Relationships alexandra_k

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:16:21

In reply to Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 15:51:58

Thank you again and I never said I expected people to condone anything I am doing. I do not like what many posters do but having said it one time I find it unsupportive to keep posting that to the other person. It leads IMO to circle thinking. We just disagree..I don't want to debate the issue of ANY one law it is not what I come to Babble for. I will say I do belive *many laws* need to change and NO not JUST FOR ME <was that sarcasm?> .

The reason I was sorry was at the loss of your relationship is I am sure at the time you broke up you were *hurt*. Your pain at this is what I was addressing. Now on the same vain you posted about how you learned from it maybe I will learn too but that is for me to live out and find out...not be, as a few posters have said critcised for my life style. Certainly Dr Bob as I suggested above..wayyy above could post the APA laws and rules for anyone to read as he has on suicide and maybe SI should be added...a nice link as to not to do it and what to do in it's place...Having tried SI'd in the past I am NOT bashing PEOPLE who SI in here. But disclaimers are helpful , following a poster and pointing out other threads of there just doesn't feel helpful or supportive to me. Thank you again

> Yeah, I thought Pfinstegg's post was good. I apologise if you thought I said anything judgemental or unsupportive to or about you.
>
> I guess I am feeling a bit tied too. On the one hand I want to support Babblers - emotionally, but that doesn't mean I have to condone what you are doing. One the other hand I believe that what he is doing (and the way in which he went about it) is wrong and he should lose his lisence to practice as a consequence of that.
>
> I don't think any rules are 'meant' to be broken. Some of them *should* be changed, however. Is the APA rule prohibiting sexual contact for 2 years after a therapy relationship really a rule you would like to see changed? Just in your case, or just dropped altogether? What do you think the intention of the rule is? Why do you consider your case to be an exception?
>
> You don't have to feel sorry that my relationship didn't work out. I think I learned a lot from it. I think I learned a lot about WHY rules like this are in existence. We were both genuine at the time. We both thought that we genuinely were in love with each other. I really do not believe that there was any malice or intention to hurt in my partners mind. But fact is - years later - I look back on that and consider it an abuse. They abused their power.
>
> Transference and counter-transference responses can masquerade as love. But to ACT on them instead of working through them... Well, IMO your 't' stopped being your t and started looking out for himself at the point where he wasn't trying to help you work through that anymore.
>
> > Oops my post may have been lost cause I did reply earlier. I am sorry your relationship didn't work out. It is a fact of life that not everything goes how we wish so I know anything can happen..Part of that everything may just be I will continue to be happy with him. As to rules some are meant to be broken....once many years ago women were not allowed to vote and gays today cannot marry in most states.....also in many churches and states certain very practiced sex acts are considered immoral....Fact is I am happy and I am enjoying it :) Still I am sorry your relationshiop did not work out.
>
>

 

Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT

Posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 17:27:09

In reply to Re: Relationships alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:16:21

> I don't want to debate the issue of ANY one law it is not what I come to Babble for. I will say I do belive *many laws* need to change and NO not JUST FOR ME <was that sarcasm?> .

Nope - no sarcasm intended. I just wondered whether you really did want to see this rule go. I also wondered what you thought it should be replaced with. I am genuinely interested in that. If you don't really want to talk about it then that is ok. I guess that I think it is a good rule but would be interested to hear your point of view.

I agree with you that there are loads of people here whose actions (at times) I wouldn't want to condone. Myself included there :-)

I haven't really been up on the threads. I guess I was wondering whether my kinds of responses were 'unsupportive'. Not sure what other peoples responses have been.

I can see that this is an issue that brings up a lot of stuff for people.

I am not too upset or anything about my relationship ending. It was a lot different in many respects from yours - but I do see points of similarity too.

I think that in my own case if we had waited two years before we got together. Well, if we had waited I think I would have bailed in that time. That would have saved me a lot of hurt (and therapy) later. That would have been an alternative to having to learn the hard way.

Hey if you did wait and then still wanted to be together then I really would be fully supportive :-)

But it feels great to feel loved.
I am happy for you that you have that.
I respect ya :-)

 

Re: Relationships alexandra_k

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:55:53

In reply to Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 17:27:09

OK ALL I will say on the law and all is I would never expect a law to be altered just for me. I do not know if you overlooked it...,can't blame you for that what started out as a good thread on what pushed buttons got obviously and with regret...pointed over to my thread on social...which then singled me out and makes me feel put down. People have written me in private on this thread taking a bad turn towards ME so it is not me....ok but what you may have missed is I DID SAY WE ARE GETTING MARRIED IN 2 YEARS...I am not screaming just emphasizing...The doctor's at his clinic who are also memebers of the APA know what is going down and what we are and arent and havent been doing in the mean time. HAHAH Thank you for your respect <g> I feel like a punching bag lately and feel like I do not act towards others like that....Thank you very much..I am going out for suppies lol we are due for 10 inches of snow...gak

> > I don't want to debate the issue of ANY one law it is not what I come to Babble for. I will say I do belive *many laws* need to change and NO not JUST FOR ME <was that sarcasm?> .
>
> Nope - no sarcasm intended. I just wondered whether you really did want to see this rule go. I also wondered what you thought it should be replaced with. I am genuinely interested in that. If you don't really want to talk about it then that is ok. I guess that I think it is a good rule but would be interested to hear your point of view.
>
> I agree with you that there are loads of people here whose actions (at times) I wouldn't want to condone. Myself included there :-)
>
> I haven't really been up on the threads. I guess I was wondering whether my kinds of responses were 'unsupportive'. Not sure what other peoples responses have been.
>
> I can see that this is an issue that brings up a lot of stuff for people.
>
> I am not too upset or anything about my relationship ending. It was a lot different in many respects from yours - but I do see points of similarity too.
>
> I think that in my own case if we had waited two years before we got together. Well, if we had waited I think I would have bailed in that time. That would have saved me a lot of hurt (and therapy) later. That would have been an alternative to having to learn the hard way.
>
> Hey if you did wait and then still wanted to be together then I really would be fully supportive :-)
>
> But it feels great to feel loved.
> I am happy for you that you have that.
> I respect ya :-)

 

Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT

Posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 18:44:53

In reply to Re: Relationships alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:55:53

ok. So have you got another t then?
You have stopped seeing him as a t, right?

If so, then well all the best to ya I suppose :-)

 

Re: Relationships

Posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2005, at 18:50:51

In reply to Re: Relationships alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 17:55:53

Hi Fallen,
I know you know what my stance on this issue is, so I won't post it again. I'm sorry you feel like a punching bag. I can see how "hot" this issue is, and since you are the current Babble "incarnation" of this issue, you seem to be bearing the burden of all of our concerns. I only want to say that I feel bad that you are the one here to bear this burden, when it really is the actions of your ex-T/current fiance that are what many of us seem to be reacting to. I'm certainly not saying that I think he should come to Babble and "tag in", and I'm also not blaming him for you feeling hurt here. But unfortunately, since he is not here (as far as I know) you're like the stand-in "Bobo doll" for those of us who get upset about ethical violations.

I'm guessing you didn't sign up for this duty? :(

Best wishes on your engagement. That is an exciting time in a gal's life.

gg

 

Re: Relationships alexandra_k

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 18:57:09

In reply to Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT, posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 18:44:53

> ok. So have you got another t then?
> You have stopped seeing him as a t, right?
>
> If so, then well all the best to ya I suppose :-)
>
>

Lol YES...I thought I had made that clear..but maybe not ..I use the word T still as I do not want to use a made up name or use his real name

 

Re: Relationships gardenergirl

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:09:38

In reply to Re: Relationships, posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2005, at 18:50:51

Thank you GG and that was a very thoughful post too..I DO understand why this issue is hot My T does not belong to Babble and I thought it out and didn't even ask him what his perscpective is because I know he will say pretty much why are they not working on their issues maybe they should take their concerns on this to their T's (that is just my guess). I have posts above on how I do not tell people in private emails to cross as I am/have whatever but man I am bruised and no I didn't sign up for this I have been very civil on what has triggered me and would never point out another poster like that. I KNOW the poster regrets it she is a sweetie but others have not let it be. To that end I am gonna post my final post on this as I do not feel this is helpful to anyone..we just go in circles.

LOL what is a BOBO doll?? And thank you on the engagement.....I appreciate it :)

> Hi Fallen,
> I know you know what my stance on this issue is, so I won't post it again. I'm sorry you feel like a punching bag. I can see how "hot" this issue is, and since you are the current Babble "incarnation" of this issue, you seem to be bearing the burden of all of our concerns. I only want to say that I feel bad that you are the one here to bear this burden, when it really is the actions of your ex-T/current fiance that are what many of us seem to be reacting to. I'm certainly not saying that I think he should come to Babble and "tag in", and I'm also not blaming him for you feeling hurt here. But unfortunately, since he is not here (as far as I know) you're like the stand-in "Bobo doll" for those of us who get upset about ethical violations.
>
> I'm guessing you didn't sign up for this duty? :(
>
> Best wishes on your engagement. That is an exciting time in a gal's life.
>
> gg

 

Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT

Posted by pinkeye on January 21, 2005, at 19:28:00

In reply to Re: Relationships alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 18:57:09

My opinion is this - you are both adults and while there are rules that are not meant to be broken - it doesn't mean that they are sancrosanct and need to be followed to the letter.
Beyond that, a rule needs to be respected and thought about and given the maximum weightage and evaluation - if after all that you still feel it is a good match, then you probably don't have to obey the rule after that. You guys wait for 2 years and then if you still feel the same, you get married so you don't jeopardize his license.
Rules are manmade - and it is only a guiding principle - if tomorrow the APA comes up with something else, then what? So maybe we should just treat it as a good guideline and let it go at that.

 

APPROVAL

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:28:01

In reply to Re: Relationships, posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2005, at 18:50:51

It is really not that I want anyone's approval I do not need it...I respect other's opinions as well as belief's and had this thread stayed on the subject and had that someone not accidently kind of pointed MY bracelet THREAD out on Social thus fingering ME out.(and THAT someone was gracious about this later so I have NO issue with her please do not stir that up) then *I* became the topic. I would not have posted but one post in here...But the subject went from what pushes your buttons to me.

....If 7000 posters and just said I am with the APA those T crossings push my button it is bad, illegal and so on I would have never had much to say in here.

Ask yourself if you posted on social..I haven't cleaned my house in 17 years and on this ORIGINAL thread someone said...yes messy houses push my buttons and another said...you know of a messy house...and the reply was yes someone posted to that on social...then you got a lot of babblemail and emails saying basically...WOW WHY ARE THEY GOING AFTER YOU...would it make you feel put down...dirty house or not? I do not expect replies ...just think on it.

 

Re: Relationships

Posted by Gabbix2 on January 21, 2005, at 19:29:31

In reply to Re: Relationships gardenergirl, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:09:38

In my experience, as long as their are two people involved in the relationship it's doomed to failure. And ya, what the hey is a Bobo doll? : )

 

Re: Relationships/ pinkeye pinkeye

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:49:53

In reply to Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT, posted by pinkeye on January 21, 2005, at 19:28:00

You and I must have posted at the same time lol....I just wanted to thank you for your post..I said I was done on this subject but as your post hit BEFORE mine..I wanted to thank you for the support and add that I agree on the laws and rules :)
HUGS

> My opinion is this - you are both adults and while there are rules that are not meant to be broken - it doesn't mean that they are sancrosanct and need to be followed to the letter.
> Beyond that, a rule needs to be respected and thought about and given the maximum weightage and evaluation - if after all that you still feel it is a good match, then you probably don't have to obey the rule after that. You guys wait for 2 years and then if you still feel the same, you get married so you don't jeopardize his license.
> Rules are manmade - and it is only a guiding principle - if tomorrow the APA comes up with something else, then what? So maybe we should just treat it as a good guideline and let it go at that.
>

 

LOL GG WE DEMAND TO KNOW

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:52:06

In reply to Re: Relationships, posted by Gabbix2 on January 21, 2005, at 19:29:31

What is a Bobo doll????

 

LOL

Posted by rainbowbrite on January 21, 2005, at 19:57:25

In reply to LOL GG WE DEMAND TO KNOW, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:52:06

ROFLAO It is this doll that was involved in experiments with kids where they exposed kids to an adult beating up a bobo doll (i think it looks like a blow up doll), then left the kids alone to see if they would imitate and hit bobo. they did.

 

Bobo doll pic

Posted by TofuEmmy on January 21, 2005, at 20:01:58

In reply to LOL GG WE DEMAND TO KNOW, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:52:06

http://academic.evergreen.edu/h/hiljus01/bobo.htm

 

Re: LOL rainbowbrite

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 20:31:23

In reply to LOL, posted by rainbowbrite on January 21, 2005, at 19:57:25

Wow color me duh hahaha but I never heard of them..I remember my dog had a toy way back...you squeezed it and its eyes , tongue and ears popped out...i don't want that lol hahahaha ouch nooooo

> ROFLAO It is this doll that was involved in experiments with kids where they exposed kids to an adult beating up a bobo doll (i think it looks like a blow up doll), then left the kids alone to see if they would imitate and hit bobo. they did.

 

Re: Bobo doll pic TofuEmmy

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 20:33:15

In reply to Bobo doll pic, posted by TofuEmmy on January 21, 2005, at 20:01:58

> http://academic.evergreen.edu/h/hiljus01/bobo.htm

Wow Emmy thank you I looked at the site looks like they have been around a long time..I never heard of them...ever....

 

Re: LOL Fallen4MyT

Posted by rainbowbrite on January 21, 2005, at 20:37:23

In reply to Re: LOL rainbowbrite, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 20:31:23

I think they were only used for the experiemtn. i only heard of them from psych classes

 

Re: LOL

Posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2005, at 21:04:21

In reply to Re: LOL Fallen4MyT, posted by rainbowbrite on January 21, 2005, at 20:37:23

Sorry, I was on my way home and just got back online. And yeah, the Bobo doll experiment was old. I do think it was an actual toy back then, but nowadays, well, blow up toys seem to serve different purposes. ;)

And I only know of it from teaching Psych. :)

gg

Thanks emmy and rainbowbrite for stepping in for me! :D

 

Re: Relationships Fallen4MyT

Posted by alexandra_k on January 21, 2005, at 21:16:09

In reply to Re: Relationships alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 18:57:09

Ah. See I pipe up without knowing much what I am talking about :-(

I think gg's post was great too. And I agree. I have no bad feelings towards you at all. And clearly I didn't have much of an understanding about the situation.

I guess that your posting name, and the fact that you still do refer to him as your t may be what evokes such strong reactions from others about this, though.

I think you could probably prevent that by giving him another initial, not posting about him (in the context of being your therapist) on the psych board, and changing your posting name.

But that is just my 2c.

(((((Fallen)))))
Like I say, I respect ya.
I shall shut up about this now.

 

I had one. They were way cool. gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2005, at 21:45:50

In reply to Re: LOL, posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2005, at 21:04:21

I tried to find one as an adult, but oddly enough they were all too short to effectively punch. Go figure.

 

Re: I had one. ME TOO!! :)) Dinah

Posted by just plain jane on January 21, 2005, at 23:48:41

In reply to I had one. They were way cool. gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2005, at 21:45:50

It was indeed a real toy, marketed for exactly the purpose of being a punching bag, and that's what I did with him. I punched him so hard that I popped him more than once. He had (electrical??) tape all over him before my mom finally made me give him up. I should say, before my mom threw him out while I was at school, 'cause that's how I "gave him up". And I saw him in the trash can when I took some out that day. Man, my mom was MEAN!!! :\

just plain bad girl jane
(facetiousness, I no longer believe her)

 

lol thanks all on the bobo stories an info :-P (nm)

Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 23:57:41

In reply to Re: I had one. ME TOO!! :)) Dinah, posted by just plain jane on January 21, 2005, at 23:48:41

 

Re: APPROVAL Fallen4MyT

Posted by Pfinstegg on January 22, 2005, at 0:38:11

In reply to APPROVAL, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 21, 2005, at 19:28:01

Fallen, I just want to make sure that you know that I am not critical of you in any way. I never have been, and never would be. I am truly happy that you've found someone to love, and who loves you. You know I do think that it would have been better for him to follow professional ethical guidelines- waiting two years for a relationship- not starting a relationship immediately and waiting two years for marriage.(those are not the guidelines). The two-year waiting period is there for such a good reason- to make sure that these feelings are not mostly transference and countertransference (that would lead eventually to complete disillusion on both sides), and to eliminate the power differential which exists in therapy where one person reveals everything and the other very little (it will take time for you to become a fully equal partner to him- to know him as well as he knows you).

I do hope things go well for the two of you, and that you find real and lasting happiness together. As you know, there are several people posting here who have been extremely hurt, and even damaged, by similiar situations; when they express concern and worry, they are speaking from personal experiences of heartbreak, not from malice or ill will. But, there are bound to be exceptions to even the most tried and true rules. I hope that turns out to be what happens for you! I really do wish you well, and although you mention negative e-mails, my impression is that most of the posters, although they may be concerned and uneasy because of how things developed, wish you well also. I certainly do.


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