Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 395117

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Good to see you :)

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:20:16

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith Dinah, posted by Susan47 on September 25, 2004, at 23:35:04

I wish I could get what I need elsewhere, but it was a unique service he provided. :(

 

Re: faith

Posted by tabitha on September 26, 2004, at 1:53:59

In reply to Good to see you :), posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:20:16

Mine is at an all-time low too. I keep googling phrases like "when therapy doesn't work" and "quitting therapy" trying to find some guidance, or some substitute. At least you've still got some religious belief, right?

The odd thing is I can't even remember what it felt like when it was working. There was a period when I was doing a lot of phone sessions. I'd get upset between office sessions, and call her, and I'd feel better after we talked. That was probably the best thing. I remember a distinct point where I started looking forward to her calls more than hoping for a callback from a friend, or a love interest. She was just so much better at listening, and making sense of my pain, and saying something comforting. And it was great that I didn't have to give anything back, except money. I can't even remember what she would say.

The office sessions generally didn't feel good. I usually felt emotionally drained afterward, and sometimes really burdened. I took a lot of sick days the day after my sessions. But it all seemed so meaningful and important somehow. You know, the brave battle for healing.

I used to have a lot of doubts about therapy. For the first few years I had almost constant doubts. I'd keep up this conversation with myself, where I was trying to justify it. Then there was a period where I just didn't bother to question it anymore, I just kept going. I'd only question it when I was mad at her. Then she'd talk her way out of it, and I'd lap it up, and peace would be restored.

But lately, it's really feeling like my sane adult self is saying it's time to stop. Yet I can't convince her. I almost wish she'd just say she can't help me. I'm afraid I don't have the strength to self-terminate, unless she gives me permission. But I haven't seriously talked about it yet, I've just been griping about how painful group has been, and how my life doesn't really feel all that much better after all the years of therapy.

She always says I'm better, that she sees improvements, and she'll tell me things, patterns that I don't really see. Last time I said 'how am I better?' and she said I have healthier coping mechanisms now. Dang, that doesn't really sound like all that much, does it? All the money and time and emotional energy I've put into it, and I have healthier coping mechanisms? That's the reward?

OK I realize I'm ranting. I feel like a need a new board, the Doubts about Therapy board, so I don't poison anyone with my loss of faith.

 

Re: faith tabitha

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 2:32:26

In reply to Re: faith, posted by tabitha on September 26, 2004, at 1:53:59

Well, as one who has studied faith a good bit (albeit religious faith), I think grappling with faith is part of having it. It's my philosophy that having doubts about anything is good rather than bad, because if your faith ends up renewed it's renewed with a freshness it wouldn't have if you never ever doubted.

So perhaps my view of therapy right now is colored by my slide into depression. Or perhaps I'm just working through the idealizing transference and realizing that my therapist can't offer me much that I can't offer myself now that I've internalized him. I don't know yet how it will work out.

But I wish I could have that simple faith back. Not that I didn't have doubts, I certainly did. But I had no doubt that I felt bad, then I saw him, then I felt better. Magic. I want that magic back. :((

 

Re: magic Dinah

Posted by tabitha on September 26, 2004, at 3:02:53

In reply to Re: faith tabitha, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 2:32:26

> But I had no doubt that I felt bad, then I saw him, then I felt better. Magic. I want that magic back. :((


I call it soothing. I paid her to soothe my pain. She was the only one who could. Why did it quit working? Now she seems to be a primary source of my pain.

Here's hoping your T gets his magic back. Hey isn't it supposedly a developmental phase, when children stop idealizing their parents? I don't recall ever either idealizing mine or becoming disillusioned, but I've heard it supposedly happens.

 

Re: Completely lost faith

Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 26, 2004, at 8:01:27

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

Dinah, seems to me that once the transference goes away that that means progress is being made. I take it as a sign that therapy IS working! One of the things my T told me early on in my therapy (and this was in passing) was that it was pretty common for the client who was progressing, who actually didn't need therapy quite as much as he used to, to begin to have some negative transference/disillusionment with the therapist.

Didn't you recently go down to once a week? And I know you have said in the past that you believe you will be in "forever therapy." I wonder however that maybe, even subconsciously, you can see that perhaps you won't need forever therapy, that there is a chance of getting better. And perhaps your slide into depression and disillusionment with your T is a result of this realization? People find change, uncomfortable, even positive change. It is frightening. What do you think?

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by fallsfall on September 26, 2004, at 11:29:45

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

>>My therapist's magic no longer seems adequate to help me feel better. He's gone till Tuesday, and I'm thinking of cancelling my Wednesday appointment because I need hours at work more than I need him.

Dinah, I'm not sure that the second sentance follows from the first. The first says to me that you need to feel better, but he can't do it. The second says that you have other priorities - that putting in more hours at work will be *more beneficial* to you than seeing him.

In the past, there was nothing that was more beneficial to you than seeing your therapist - that was what you needed then. Now, perhaps, there are other things that are more helpful to you. That doesn't mean that he has lost his magic. It just means that you need something different right now. So go with what you need - this week, it is work - some other time it will be him.

It almost feels like you think that you are being disloyal to him by needing work more than you need him. I think he will not be hurt by this - he will be pleased that you are able to get some of your needs met by "the real world". He'll still be there when you need him again.

This sounds pretty good to me...

 

I agree with fallsfall (nm)

Posted by mair on September 26, 2004, at 12:31:55

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith Dinah, posted by fallsfall on September 26, 2004, at 11:29:45

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by Pfinstegg on September 26, 2004, at 14:45:21

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

But Dinah, he yelled at you shortly before he left! And you didn't have a chance to ensure your bond before his vacation, as you normally try hard to do. If I were going to guess, I'd say you got mad, and then quickly shut down and became sort of flat and uncaring, as if you are saying, "who needs HIM?". It sounds as though you're going to 'pay him back" by cancelling on Wednesday. Why not go on Wednesday, and just deal with whatever comes up- like everyone, you can change from detachment to secure, warm attachment very quickly, if you have a chance to deal with the underlying issues. This is such an unusually difficult time for you because of your parents' increasing fragility- hang on to all the good things! (even when they don't seem so good)

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by Aphrodite on September 26, 2004, at 15:45:28

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

If you're anything like me, I'm dealing with my T's absence by thinking of ways I don't need him, how the extra time and money will be nice, etc. It's a way to protect myself. Might you be doing the same?

Or maybe he has lost the magic, and he needs to get it back! :) Maybe the vacation will recharge his batteries, and he'll return more wonderful than ever.

 

Re: Completely lost faith

Posted by fallsfall on September 26, 2004, at 15:55:03

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 26, 2004, at 14:45:21

Pfinstegg makes a good point...

 

Re: Completely lost faith

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 17:42:33

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 26, 2004, at 8:01:27

I think Miss Honeychurch might be pretty close, unless my whole viewpoint is distorted by depression. In fact, that's what our fight was about before he left. Not that I have any negative transference or disillusionment with him, because I don't. He's still a good guy, still the same guy he always was. I may be mad at him over a single issue, but there's no global negativity in my feelings toward him.

But I was talking about how I wasn't needing him as much any more, and how I wondered if that wasn't a core reason for my depression. That I used to feel like a blind pup to his milky mother dog, and now I can't recapture that feeling, and it was a d*mn good feeling. And that whatever good things come from "growing up" can't compare to that feeling. Not even close.

And he refused to see it as a bad thing. He wanted to help me with the "transition", and he told me that I could choose whether to see it as a good thing or a bad thing and my choice would determine what the experience was like. Well, *^%$ him! I told him that I would choose to make it as unpleasant as possible, then I left in spirit if not physically.

I'm losing too much at once. I don't know whether or not my dad is dying. And I don't know what to hope for for him. He's utterly miserable and he is the Mr. Hyde black rage with red firebolts 90% of the time. The Dr. Jekyll that I loved as I got older (Daddy doesn't like very little kids), and that appears pretty much in direct proportion to how much his needs are being met isn't around very much.

I lost my mother years ago, even though she'll probably outlive us all.

Harry is dying. Five of my six dogs are thirteen or older, I think. Maybe twelve. The chances of my finding another dog I can fall in love with are slim to nonexistant. I can like them quite well, and care for them, but it isn't easy to fall in love with one.

I hate to sound whiny, but if I lose my therapist too, I'll have nothing. I'm not replacing him with things in my life. I'm replacing him with nothing. There's just a big gaping black hole there. And I know that I'm not going to physically lose him, but I fear I'll lose what I love about him because I'm "growing up". Blech.

And he wants to help me with the transition. To h*ll with that. I'd rather die. I really would rather die.

This has been coming for what.. a couple of months now? Some of you may remember when I first started talking about it. It's just progressed naturally from there. It has nothing really to do with him being gone. In fact, his being gone isn't much of an issue at all, d*mn it.

I want him to help me go back. How can working through the transference be a good thing if it just leaves me hopeless and suicidal? It' *not* a good thing. It's not!

 

(((Dinah)))

Posted by fallsfall on September 26, 2004, at 17:47:18

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 17:42:33

I'm guessing that you shouldn't cancel your next session...

I wish I could make it all better for you. I wish *he* could make it all better for you.

Keep plugging away... I couldn't bear to lose you.

 

That's what he said too.... (nm) fallsfall

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 18:21:26

In reply to (((Dinah))), posted by fallsfall on September 26, 2004, at 17:47:18

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by just plain jane on September 26, 2004, at 21:17:05

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

I have managed to avoid transference.

It's probably because I don't truly trust anyone.
That started with my parents and siblings and has pretty much ruled my life, with reinforcing experiences in the process.

I'm not the suspicious type, and I confide without hesitation in my Ts, but I know all too well how easy it is for someone you know well, love, and trust, to violate you psychologically.

In the end, no one is alone but the unbeliever.

 

Re: faith

Posted by gardenergirl on September 26, 2004, at 21:17:56

In reply to Re: faith tabitha, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 2:32:26

Dinah,
I'm replying without reading rest of thread at the moment, so I hope this isn't redundant. It sounds like no fun at all feeling like this. I am wondering, though, if perhaps there might be something going on with your T that it feels like the magic is gone? Is it necessarily something about you? I ask because it feels like my T is not quite "on" lately. Still good, but I feel like I'm finding myself clarifying and/or correcting him more and more as he seems to jump in too quickly lately. He also has been a bit forgetful. I as attributing it to beginning of the term stress, but there might also be something personal with him. I have the luxury of knowing someone else who sees him, so I can compare notes. This helps me to not personalize it so much.

Just a thought?

gg

 

Re: faith gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 21:22:32

In reply to Re: faith, posted by gardenergirl on September 26, 2004, at 21:17:56

Unfortunately I don't think that's it. He has his good days and less than brilliant days as always. And when he's at the top of his form, I admire his technique. But there's a big difference between admiring technique and feeling magic.

He seems to be in a good place personally right now. And believe me, I've seen him when he wasn't in such a good place. I can read that like a book. (Poor guy. I bet in his line of work he's surrounded by clients with sensitive antennae, and he's not really sensitive in that way.)

 

Re: faith gardenergirl

Posted by Annierose on September 26, 2004, at 22:12:29

In reply to Re: faith, posted by gardenergirl on September 26, 2004, at 21:17:56

gg -
This question isn't directly related to this particular thread, sorry if it's inappropriate.
Is it difficult for you to know someone that sees the same T? Are you a close friend? That would cause problems for me if it was someone I considered close.

 

Friend seeing same T Annierose

Posted by gardenergirl on September 27, 2004, at 0:17:40

In reply to Re: faith gardenergirl, posted by Annierose on September 26, 2004, at 22:12:29

Hi,
I found out after the fact that my friend was seeing this T also. We are classmates, and our options for seeing someone on campus are a bit limited, so there are several of us who all go to the same center, but we are divided among 3 or 4 T's. In this case, because I doubt very much that either of us talk about the other in therapy, it's okay. One time I felt kind of sorry for our T because he was hearing the same work-related issues from both of us about another co-worker. I imagine it was hard to hear it over and over (the conflict went on for a few weeks) and to keep track of who said what.

But otherwise, we sometimes laugh together about him and his habits. We commiserate that he is always running late, and we both are quite happy with him.

Good question, though. I would not recommend that a T see close friends. I think there is too much potential for less objectivity if he hears about one from the other. Something similar happened at the clinic where I worked last year. In processing sessions with another co-worker, we discovered that we were seeing friends. And that the friendship was an integral part of each client's issues. So we had to be very careful not to talk to each other about these particular clients. It was hard, though, because I found out before my colleague did that her client was cutting again. I had to keep that to myself to protect my client's privacy.

It sure is complicated. I would imagine it's hard in small towns or rural areas where there are fewer T's.

gg

 

Re: Friend seeing same T gardenergirl

Posted by Annierose on September 27, 2004, at 6:05:47

In reply to Friend seeing same T Annierose, posted by gardenergirl on September 27, 2004, at 0:17:40

Thanks for your reply. I do think it would be very interesting, on the one hand, to be able to share notes on the T. Otherwise, I can see it being very difficult.

 

Re: Friend seeing same T Annierose

Posted by Annierose on September 27, 2004, at 16:10:35

In reply to Re: Friend seeing same T gardenergirl, posted by Annierose on September 27, 2004, at 6:05:47

And I wanted to add, potentially competitive.
But I do fantasize (and I hate that word choice here) about being able to chat about the T with someone else.

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by mair on September 27, 2004, at 16:56:02

In reply to Completely lost faith, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 23:04:29

Dinah, I know I'm jumping into this late, and haven't read all of the responses, but I'm wondering if this is not a loss of faith, but a loss of hope.

I know we're different but when I am depressed, and feeling overwelmed everything in my life looks wrong, and worse, my many problems seem to be interconnected in a very complicated way. I also know when I'm spread out to the max and rather overstressed, I tend to obsess about all the tasks I'm not getting to instead of those that I am.

You're trying to deal with so much between your dogs, your parents, work, insulating your son, and whatever relationship issues seem to continually come to the fore in times of stress. I can well imagine that you're overwelmed, and that you may not be able to see that things can get better with this particular therapist. And maybe, rather than leaning on him as you might have in the past, you're circling the wagons and drawing back from him.

I've read alot of emails and posts where you talk about your therapist, hardly always in the most favorable terms. Your relationship with him has always seemed very human to me; I've never known you to describe the dynamic between you and him as being the least bit magical. It always has seemed that you have put alot of energy and just hard work into your relationship with him. It's certainly one which has evolved.

It could well be that the 2 of you have gone about as far as you can go, and that you need to go in a different direction. But I don't think you can know that right now, when you have so much to contend with. Try to use him in the best way that you can, and go to work on the harder issue of whether he's giving you what you need, when things have settled down.

I'm rereading this and see that it's the epitome of mindless babble. But I hope you get the point. (-;

Mair

 

Re: Completely lost faith mair

Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:02:04

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith Dinah, posted by mair on September 27, 2004, at 16:56:02

Thanks Mair. I agree that depression might be the cause rather than the result of the loss of magic. It's hard to tell.

But I always felt the magic. It's why I worked so hard on the relationship. I felt bad, I went to see him, I left feeling better than when I arrived. We didn't seem to say or do anything that would account for my feeling better, but I did anyway.

If you ever want to chat, my old email address is still good. That goes for everyone, although I'm not really good at returning email.

bully for you 77 at yahoo.

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by Annierose on September 27, 2004, at 19:13:39

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith mair, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:02:04

Sometimes I just think that the T and client are just "on" and that is the magic you may be describing. I love those sessions! Consciously and subconsciously, you are both in total sync.

 

Re: Completely lost faith Dinah

Posted by Pfinstegg on September 27, 2004, at 23:14:28

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith mair, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:02:04

Dinah, I'm being a complete pain in the neck on this thread, and I'm probably going to dig myself in even deeper now, but what you're expressing sounds like *negative* tranference. You've worked so hard, and successfully, on getting a secure attachment, and a lot of positive feelings for your T. But we all have negative feelings too- coming from parts of us which experienced pain and disappointment in the past. Those come into the relationship, too! I find those BY FAR the most depressing, isolating and difficult to deal with, but they are there, and my T reminds me, "I want ALL of you to be in here". I just have to force myself to deal with it honestly (he helps, too). I don't know if I am alone in this or not, but I find it very hard to hold in my mind at the same time that parts of me feel very loving and attached, and other parts distrustful and hateful- I want it to be only positive- but it just isn't.

 

Yes, exactly! Beautiful description! (nm) Annierose

Posted by 10derHeart on September 28, 2004, at 17:18:50

In reply to Re: Completely lost faith Dinah, posted by Annierose on September 27, 2004, at 19:13:39


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