Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 332291

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 63. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

premeditating SI (caution may trigger)

Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28


I've been planning to cut myself really badly on Monday because I see my T on Tuesday and I think I want to show her how much pain I'm in and also how she's hurting me and convince her that our therapy is no longer working.

Isn't that weird, stupid, messed up? I don't know what. It's hard to even confess it to you guys because it sounds so manipulative. And I know it's wrong. I should just express myself with words to her on Tuesday, but I feel like I haven't been able to convey stuff with words lately. I think that's why I've been resorting to cutting. But this pre-meditation stuff is really twisted.

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout

Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 22:34:14

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28

Can you email the words and NOT do the deed..Its NOT going to hurt her it will just make you feel worse in the end...

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) Fallen4myT

Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:40:13

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 22:34:14

> Can you email the words and NOT do the deed..Its NOT going to hurt her it will just make you feel worse in the end...

You mean email the words to her?

I'm not sure if I could find the right words, or if I would feel sure enough that she'd understand them.

But also, it *would* hurt her. She told me it does. But I don't know if that's why I want to do it.

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout

Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 23:00:12

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) Fallen4myT, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:40:13

My fear is you will keep hurting her short term and you long term....If I posted your post what would you have posted back???/ Sometimes that is the BEST advice and help what WE would tell others but do not tell ourselves...Yes I meant the hard email on what youre feeling and how you may want to hurt her and want to leave yet..dont want to and how therapy is becoming painful and leaving also painfull

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) Fallen4myT

Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 23:14:04

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 23:00:12


fallen, i think i would give myself the same advice and it's definitely really good advice. i'll try to write something. or maybe i will try to just tell it to her when i see her on tuesday. but i think writing it is better because otherwise i'm afraid i'll dissociate when i see her.


> My fear is you will keep hurting her short term and you long term....If I posted your post what would you have posted back???/ Sometimes that is the BEST advice and help what WE would tell others but do not tell ourselves...Yes I meant the hard email on what youre feeling and how you may want to hurt her and want to leave yet..dont want to and how therapy is becoming painful and leaving also painfull

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout

Posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 23:30:08

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) Fallen4myT, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 23:14:04

I think you then have a very good answer a plus to the letter too..is you cannot back out..write and send it..then..its finsihed and you can go Tuesday and all will be cool and you wont si :)


>
> fallen, i think i would give myself the same advice and it's definitely really good advice. i'll try to write something. or maybe i will try to just tell it to her when i see her on tuesday. but i think writing it is better because otherwise i'm afraid i'll dissociate when i see her.
>
>
> > My fear is you will keep hurting her short term and you long term....If I posted your post what would you have posted back???/ Sometimes that is the BEST advice and help what WE would tell others but do not tell ourselves...Yes I meant the hard email on what youre feeling and how you may want to hurt her and want to leave yet..dont want to and how therapy is becoming painful and leaving also painfull
>
>

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger)

Posted by sexylexy on April 4, 2004, at 0:35:13

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout, posted by Fallen4myT on April 3, 2004, at 23:30:08

Crushed,
Is there anything besides cutting you could do. There are a lot of bad things that come from cutting, scaring, bleeding, physical and emotional pain. If you feel like cutting maybe get a red marker and draw on yourself, do the same thing with a little water and red food coloring. You do not want scaring for the summer time... go excercise, cut an non living object and bring it to therapy with you to show your therapist. Finding a good therapist is like finding a good drug, you have to search to find the right fit. I am sure you are probably fed up but harming yourself is not the way to go, it will only hurt you, not your therapist.
God Bless and no cutting =)
Lexy

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 9:27:41

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28

Crushed, I'm going to speak bluntly here, from my own experience. I had a different reason for SI - well maybe not so different because part of the reason I SI'd was because it was the only way a wordless pain could be expressed. And I wanted to express that pain.

Well, maybe I won't speak so bluntly here. Sigh. Sometimes the nature of this board is a bit limiting.

Let me just say that the likelihood is that she won't see your behavior in the way you want it to be seen. Judging from my therapist anyway.

She'll be just as moved and way more impressed if you write it down as eloquently as you post. Run it by us first if you want to see if you can make it even more explicit.

But don't self injure, please. Not for a purpose that's not likely to be met.

 

Re: Important clarification

Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 9:51:18

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 9:27:41

I shouldn't post before I'm fully awake. On my way to the office (where I'm going to work not fully awake), I realized that that might have sounded like I didn't think I could be frank because I'd run afoul of the civility rules. That really isn't the case. I wasn't going to say anything offensive.

It's just that my therapist's overt and covert reactions to self injury are probably best not posted here, that's all.

 

Re: Important clarification Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:02:36

In reply to Re: Important clarification, posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 9:51:18

> I shouldn't post before I'm fully awake. On my way to the office (where I'm going to work not fully awake), I realized that that might have sounded like I didn't think I could be frank because I'd run afoul of the civility rules. That really isn't the case. I wasn't going to say anything offensive.
>
> It's just that my therapist's overt and covert reactions to self injury are probably best not posted here, that's all.

Thanks for clarifying that, Dinah. I was sort of wondering something along those lines. But now I'm terribly curious why you think your T's reactions are best not posted here.

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout

Posted by fallsfall on April 4, 2004, at 10:25:56

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28

It took me a long time to figure out that my suicidal ideation was a way of communicating how much pain I was in. You are doing well to see that now! I DID find that if I worked really hard at talking about whatever was bothering me AND how much it was bothering me that the ideation went away. Talking also has another advantage - you can be really specific when you talk, where cutting (while it expresses well) doesn't allow you to explain where the pain is coming from.

I would encourage you to write it down - that always helps me to get my thoughts clearer. I would bring the writing to your session. If you can TELL her about it, great. If not, then you can read your writing. If you can't do that, then she can read it while you are there. Personally, I would not mail it in advance - because I would want to be able to handle her reactions and mine in real time. But, I also know that once I've decided to talk about something I won't chicken out. For people who aren't as pigheaded/stubborn/determined as I am, sending it in advance might make sense to make sure that the topic doesn't get ignored. Ah Ha! You can mail her a letter, and on the outside say that you want her to open the letter in your session. That might work.

Good luck. You really do need to talk to her. I think that she really will know how much pain you are in even if you don't cut.

 

i can't find the words

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:27:02

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28


I feel like i've already begun to dissociate. I don't know what I'm feeling and I don't know how to express the pain. I don't even think I'm in touch with it now because I'm numb. Or more just depressed.

and even if i could find the words, they would never be able to get across what i want to get across. it feels like si is the only way. and i know this must be a fallacy but it's what it feels like. also i want to si now to sort of "wake myself up" because i'm feeling dissociated. i guess to make myself feel something.

 

brilliant idea fallsfall

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:36:38

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) crushedout, posted by fallsfall on April 4, 2004, at 10:25:56


i love it. i don't think i'll do it this time but it's very clever.

i agree with you though that communicating it to her while she's present (in whatever way i can) seems better than having her read my feelings in advance. if i can, i'll try to write it on a piece of paper. if i can figure out what to write ever. which i'm not sure i can anymore. but maybe it will come to me later. this is sooooo frustrating. i feel so blocked.

> It took me a long time to figure out that my suicidal ideation was a way of communicating how much pain I was in. You are doing well to see that now! I DID find that if I worked really hard at talking about whatever was bothering me AND how much it was bothering me that the ideation went away. Talking also has another advantage - you can be really specific when you talk, where cutting (while it expresses well) doesn't allow you to explain where the pain is coming from.
>
> I would encourage you to write it down - that always helps me to get my thoughts clearer. I would bring the writing to your session. If you can TELL her about it, great. If not, then you can read your writing. If you can't do that, then she can read it while you are there. Personally, I would not mail it in advance - because I would want to be able to handle her reactions and mine in real time. But, I also know that once I've decided to talk about something I won't chicken out. For people who aren't as pigheaded/stubborn/determined as I am, sending it in advance might make sense to make sure that the topic doesn't get ignored. Ah Ha! You can mail her a letter, and on the outside say that you want her to open the letter in your session. That might work.
>
> Good luck. You really do need to talk to her. I think that she really will know how much pain you are in even if you don't cut.

 

Re: i can't find the words crushedout

Posted by Pfinstegg on April 4, 2004, at 12:05:06

In reply to i can't find the words, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:27:02

I think you've understood something very important- that dissociation precedes the SI urges. The dissociation -the 'escape when there is no escape"- occurs in all of us when the pain we are experiencing becomes too great to bear. Even before we begin to dissociate, we don't really know why we are feeling so much pain; after we have dissociated, we know even less- we feel numb, empty and wordless- and the SI becomes a way to express the pain in a primitive, non-verbal way- the only way we may feel we have when we are dissociated.

Words and communication are your best allies. Writing down everything you can can be helpful; you can read it to your therapist later, or ask her to read it while you are with her. You can telephone her when you need to, and try to put these feelings into words; sometimes writing things out just before you call can help with getting words for the feelings. You can also do non-verbal, comforting things for yourself while you are waiting to talk to your therapist- such as listening to calming music (Mozart is very good), having a favorite hot drink, a warm bath, a massage, even.

Just knowing you have other resources available to you even when you are in so much pain can help you take good care of the most important and valuable person - YOU.

 

Re: i can't find the words Pfinstegg

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 12:18:42

In reply to Re: i can't find the words crushedout, posted by Pfinstegg on April 4, 2004, at 12:05:06


you're so right, pfinstegg. this thread has taught me a very important lesson about why i SI. you put it very well.


> I think you've understood something very important- that dissociation precedes the SI urges. The dissociation -the 'escape when there is no escape"- occurs in all of us when the pain we are experiencing becomes too great to bear. Even before we begin to dissociate, we don't really know why we are feeling so much pain; after we have dissociated, we know even less- we feel numb, empty and wordless- and the SI becomes a way to express the pain in a primitive, non-verbal way- the only way we may feel we have when we are dissociated.
>
> Words and communication are your best allies. Writing down everything you can can be helpful; you can read it to your therapist later, or ask her to read it while you are with her. You can telephone her when you need to, and try to put these feelings into words; sometimes writing things out just before you call can help with getting words for the feelings. You can also do non-verbal, comforting things for yourself while you are waiting to talk to your therapist- such as listening to calming music (Mozart is very good), having a favorite hot drink, a warm bath, a massage, even.
>
> Just knowing you have other resources available to you even when you are in so much pain can help you take good care of the most important and valuable person - YOU.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 15:14:34

In reply to Re: i can't find the words Pfinstegg, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 12:18:42

Crushed,
You have the words. You have posted them many times here. One post that might help you get started is this one.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040402/msgs/332288.html

Perhaps if you go back through some of your posts over the last several weeks, you might find the words. You can bring her the posts if the idea of writing is too much right now. You do such a wonderful job of opening up here. I know it is not the same as in therapy, and we are not your T. Those dynamics are quite different. But your thoughts are here, as if they are a journal.

Good luck, dear. Please do not SI. I agree with Dinah, it likely will not have the result that you are hoping for, and if it were to, that leaves me very worried about whether this relationship is helpful for you or not. And THAT is what therapy is for. Not for the T. For you. So your actions also are for you, and not for your T.

Thinking about you,
gg

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 16:13:30

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 15:14:34


Thanks, gg. Yes, that post is a good starting point, I guess. I'm probably looking for the perfect words, something that will move her to tears (or, at least, me).

I am thinking, though, that this relationship with her is not good for me. I started cutting to hurt her, or to get a reaction out of her, and I was successful (she got angry). Now she tells me it hurts her when I do it. Do you guys think that is too codependent of her, to be hurt by my cutting? She says it hurts even more because I know it hurts her and I do it anyway. I mean, her reaction makes sense to me, and I found it moving (and it made me want to stop cutting, at the time), but is that normal, healthy, whatever? Just wondering.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 16:13:30

I personally don't think her response that it hurts her is helpful. It is either manipulative or serious countertransference. Either way, I don't think it is therapeutic for you. It puts your SI'ing in terms of her, when it really is your behavior.

Sorry if this is overly harsh. I think you ARE working through transference by thinking of ending the relationship and realizing it may not be therapeutic any longer. I think her reaction to your SI is evidence that it is no longer working.

I wish you the very best. Whatever you decide, I know it won't be easy. Take care, sweet.

(((Crushedout)))

gg

 

Re: Important clarification crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 19:51:29

In reply to Re: Important clarification Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:02:36

If you want to meet me in Open, or email me, I'll tell you what his reaction was. I found it rather hurtful to put into words and my own reaction made me reluctant to disclose it to others for fear they would also find it hurtful.

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:00:25

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24


I don't think that was harsh at all. I asked you for your opinion and I really appreciate it. I also appreciate your caring and support very much.

Thanks, gg.

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:07:50

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24

In my T's defense, I *asked* her how my SI'ing made her feel, or how she felt about it. I suppose she could have refused to answer me, though.

I'm just confused. What you say makes sense, but I also felt like she was just answering my question honestly. Maybe she is just too codependent. It shouldn't hurt her. Or, she was lying and then she's manipulative and really, really weird.

This seems to be what happens to me a lot with her: she does something that I on the one hand respect for its honesty, and on the other, wonder if it's really kosher because it seems a bit unconventional to say the least. Then I solicit other people's opinions (which are often critical of her) and then I feel like I need to defend her, worrying that I haven't really given you the whole picture.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 22:36:11

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:07:50

Hmm, I think you are right about that pattern. Thinking back on other threads, that has been what has been happening. Do you think this is specific to your relationship with your T, or does it sound like a pattern in other areas?

gg

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:56:06

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 22:36:11


I think it's something I only have with my T. I can't think of any other examples of that happening in my life.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 23:26:04

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:56:06

Thanks for responding to my last. I realized that I probably was wearing my T in training hat, and I know that's not what you are looking for here. Sorry. Good luck in your next session. I'll be thinking about you.

gg

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger)

Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 5, 2004, at 16:14:58

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28

Crushed,

Can I be blunt here?

You have been thinking about firing your therapist for weeks now, right? You even went in one day and fired her but she talked you out of it.

I think this is your body's and your mind's way of telling you to trust your instincts. Trust yourself. Your T is not good for you.

One route to take would be to fire your current one and then get a male T, someone for whom transference would be less painful.


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