Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 250650

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Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by Dinah on August 14, 2003, at 0:30:13

In reply to Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 13, 2003, at 20:57:10

Therapist vacations are the worst. And although mine usually tells me it's ok for me to call him, I've only done it when he was out of town for work, not vacation.

However, your therapist wouldn't have set her arrangements up the way she did if she was that opposed to being disturbed. She would have told you to call your pdoc, or go to the emergency room, or had a backup who would try to handle things without contacting her.

I know we try to protect our therapists from ourselves, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. But as my therapist always says, it's his job to know what he needs and provide it. It's not my job to try to second guess him.

If you really need to contact the backup therapist, I'm sure your therapist would prefer you to do that rather than to hurt yourself in any way. I'm not suggesting you do anything she didn't set up herself. My therapist doesn't have a backup anymore. :( So I think she's being responsible about choosing how much to take on herself and how much to delegate to others.

How much longer do you have to wait till she's back?

 

Re: Too Many Pills

Posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 6:47:01

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2003, at 0:30:13

fallsfall and Dinah, thank you so much for your supportive words. I can't tell you how much it means to me. You are really my lifeline right now.

I did end up leaving a message for my pdoc and he says on his machine that he'll try to return a limited number of calls b/t 5 and 6 tonight. I'm hoping he calls. Everytime I take one of my regular meds now, I get really dizzy. Last night my husband (who is wonderful...I just feel sort of beyond reach) and I debated if I should go to the er--I've never been in the hospital before for this, and I'm afraid if I go to the er, they will keep me.

I guess you're right about calling the on call therapist. I just hate feeling so needy or like I can't even make it a few weeks without her. I've been debating leaving a message for the on call person and asking that she contact me directly instead of calling her first, but why would she disregard my therp's instructions and do that? You're right, my therapist set it up this way, I shouldn't be protecting her...then again she is coming back this Saturday, so if I can hold out 2 or 3 more days, I could call her at home.

No more urges to take pills & my husband is watching me more closely. My head just feels chock full of stuff that can't get out. I have snipets of songs playing over and over and they won't stop. Does anyone else ever have this? I am so discouraged thinking this disease is robbing me of my normal daily functioning and just promises to get worse and worse over time. Meds just don't work for me. I think I am doomed to death or madness. ok, perhaps that's a little melodramatic, but I do feel pretty hopeless right now.

Sorry to be such a bummer, thanks again for listening to this...

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by Penny on August 14, 2003, at 8:42:50

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 6:47:01

>Last night my husband (who is wonderful...I just feel sort of beyond reach) and I debated if I should go to the er--I've never been in the hospital before for this, and I'm afraid if I go to the er, they will keep me.

Perhaps they will, and perhaps that's what you need right now. I was in the hospital two weeks ago, for the first time, and it wasn't a good experience or a bad experience, but it kept me safe and gave me a little break from reality and if I had to do it again, I would. It's also comforting, to me, to be around others who are going through similar situations. Of course, it would be better if you knew which hospital your doc prefers, if you have a choice through your insurance, and it is also better if you go voluntarily.

>
> I guess you're right about calling the on call therapist. I just hate feeling so needy or like I can't even make it a few weeks without her. I've been debating leaving a message for the on call person and asking that she contact me directly instead of calling her first, but why would she disregard my therp's instructions and do that? You're right, my therapist set it up this way, I shouldn't be protecting her...then again she is coming back this Saturday, so if I can hold out 2 or 3 more days, I could call her at home.

I'll say what my therapist told me about calling her and my pdoc - they would rather know what's going on when it's going on, so they can help THEN rather than wait until it gets worse and harder to help. Please try to not worry so much about your therapist. I worried about bothering my pdoc even though he said "Page me anytime" until he told me, when I apologized one night for paging him, that I wasn't the only page he'd had that day - he usually gets multiple pages. If he didn't want me to page him when I need to, he wouldn't have told me to page him when I need to.

I'm sorry you're in so much pain right now. We can all relate. It's especially hard when the therapist and pdoc are on vacation. When my T was on vacation recently, I saw one of her colleagues, and it wasn't as helpful as seeing her, but it was helpful. And last week my pdoc was on vacation, and said he would be checking his pages and returning calls, but I was adamant about not paging him. Fortunately, I had my therapist who was calling me everyday, even when she flew to NY for the weekend. So that was helpful.

But, really, ask for the help you need from your practitioners. If your therapist told you it was okay to call, CALL! Even if the pill taking wasn't a suicide attempt, it was entirely too close.

Hoping things will improve for you soon.

((((Allison))))

P

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 14, 2003, at 12:51:14

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 6:47:01

Allison,

I'm glad that things are looking a little brighter for you, but it sounds like you are still in a lot of pain. I'm hoping that your pdoc can call you.

You (and I) have figured out that if we really need our therapist and they said to call, that we should call. I argued with mine about not wanting to aid his workaholicism before he left. He convinced me that he had thought the issue through (and done it this way for many years). He would rather be interrupted than come home to a mess.

I have found my 2 hospitalizations very helpful. It would probably be easier than you think. Maybe you could have a tour so that if you need to go in it isn't as scary.

How long have you been sick? How long have you been in therapy?

I understand the hopeless feeling. I ended up changing therapists and now I have more hope. I have to give the guy a chance.

Let us know how you are doing.

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by judy1 on August 14, 2003, at 15:40:52

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 6:47:01

I hope your pdoc calls tonight, if not please get in touch with your therapist. These are much better options than the hospital (sorry I haven't had the great experiences others have, but mine were involuntary admits- and that's a whole lot different). Since you're rapid cycling (bp 2?), meds are very difficult, and moods can change rapidly when your therp or shrink leaves for vacation. Have you ever had a drug holiday? I only recommnend them with support of a dr., and gradual tapering- but for some people (including me) they can be a wonderful thing. Something to think about when your doc returns, until then get your support together and don't tempt fate- I've done what you did with the meds and liquor and landed in ICU for a few days, then a psych ward- it was not pleasant. If you need to make a pact with your doc or therp to stay safe until they return, then do so. take care of yourself- judy

 

Re: Too Many Pills

Posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 18:20:44

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by judy1 on August 14, 2003, at 15:40:52

Thank you everyone for all of your kind words. It has really helped me.

I did end up calling the on call person for my therapist this morning, spoke with her for a bit and she (as I expected) insisted on calling my therapist. But I have been reading what all of you have said about your therps and pdocs, and how they want to be called when there is a problem, not after it gets worse...and I feel better about having done it. My therapist just called me about an hour ago and more than anything it was a comfort to hear her voice when I have been feeling so scared. But she did some good reality cking with my hopeless thoughts and that helped too. And I didn't say no when she said she'd call to ck in again tomorrow. It's her choice to do this on her vacation, right?

Also, my pdoc called back about the meds--he says to go down a little on the one that makes me dizzy. We didn't talk much, but it was good to know I could reach him anyway.

I was diagnosed with bp2 about 2 years ago and in the past year or so have been rapid rapid cycling, mixed episodes, etc. I have some really good periods where I am a little hypomanic or normal, but then this other stuff hits and I'm a mess. None of the med combos we've tried have worked and I've been in therapy for it for the past 2 years. My therapist says that rapid cycling is only a phase of bp and that after awhile it will usually stop. Is that what you guys have heard?

It was encouraging what you all said about the hospital (except I'm sorry for the bad experiences you had to go thru, Judy) and I like the idea of a tour--I didn't know they would do that. Also, a drug holiday! This is exactly what I want to do--get off the drugs not forever, just to be able to start fresh. I will definitely talk to my pdoc about this.

I will keep you posted. Thank you so much for all the support.

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by Dinah on August 14, 2003, at 20:06:14

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 18:20:44

Congratulations for calling! I know it took courage. And you're right. Your therapist wouldn't have offered to call again if she didn't want to. And it's not your job to guess her needs.

I'm glad it helped.

 

Re: Too Many Pills Dinah

Posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 20:38:47

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2003, at 20:06:14

I've been following your posts and thinking about you, even though I have no idea who you are. I'm glad you called your therapist and pdoc. Sorry to hear about all of your pain. Best to you...

 

Re: Too Many Pills:woops meant for allison

Posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 20:46:52

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills Dinah, posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 20:38:47

Allison,I've been following your posts and thinking about you, even though I have no idea who you are. I'm glad you
called your therapist and pdoc. Sorry to hear about all of your pain. Best to you...

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 14, 2003, at 21:22:17

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 14, 2003, at 18:20:44

I'm really glad you called her oncall person. That person thought that she needed to be called. If it wasn't appropriate for you to have called, she never would say that she will call you tomorrow. So that's a lot of evidence that your call was completely appropriate.

It's hard to let your therapist take care of themselves, but I look at it this way: I am having a hard enough time taking care of myself right now, I don't need to add anyone else on my list of people to take care of!

And your pdoc called, too.

It sounds like you are in good hands.

Now you need to take care of yourself. Do (only) stuff you enjoy. Pamper yourself a bit. Get the book "The Woman's Comfort Book", it has great ideas. Eat ice cream. Eat more ice cream. Swing on the big, tall swings at the playground.

 

Thank you for your thoughts (nm) stebby

Posted by allisonf on August 15, 2003, at 9:08:43

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills:woops meant for allison, posted by stebby on August 14, 2003, at 20:46:52

 

Re: Too Many Pills Dinah

Posted by allisonf on August 15, 2003, at 9:21:55

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2003, at 20:06:14

Thanks. I know we've had a lot of discussion about our feelings for our therapists in other threads, and it seems like this a good example of where it's important to focus on the real doctor/patient part of the relationship. I know I wouldn't have had so much difficulty calling my PCP if I thought I broke my leg. Mental illness makes everything so much stickier.

Things are looking better today tho. The only good thing about my manifestation of this disorder is that my depressions tend to lift after a few days. As they do, I always say a little prayer for those people who have extended depressive periods. How I admire them for their ability to get thru it.

Ok, just rambling now.
Thanks Dinah.

 

Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 15, 2003, at 9:49:15

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 14, 2003, at 21:22:17

Thanks. I'm going to ck out Amazon for that book before I sign off. I need some ideas...I get stuck on going to the bookstore to study as a fun means of relaxation. Please! And ice cream? ok, I can do that! :)

Even tho my therp is supposed to call today, I am so looking forward to my therapy appt next Tuesday. Since her vacation was 2 weeks, I haven't been to therapy in 3. I appreciate your thinking that I am in good hands b/c sometimes I wonder about it. I trust them both very much and they are very responsive, but then I think, if I am not getting significantly better, are they the right people? Or is it just me? You are seeing a new therapist, right? Is that going well?

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 10:49:55

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall, posted by allisonf on August 15, 2003, at 9:49:15

Ice cream is always important to me! Studying does not count as fun/relaxation.

At least your team is responsive. That is really important.

How long have you been in therapy? You say that your depressions are short? How long do you go between them?

I'm one of those long term depressed people. This run has been about 18 months. The first one was 4 years. (These are the amount of time I am out of work)

My new therapist (less than 2 months) is on vacation for 2 weeks. I see him Tuesday, and that will be a good thing. He's very different from my first therapist (he is Psychodynamic, she was CBT). He has done some good things already, so I have some hope for the future.

I saw my first therapist for 8 1/2 years. So there should have been the question of whether she was right for me, but I was involved in a dependency/transference thing with her and I couldn't imagine leaving. The transference got really painful and I decided I had to leave. When I stopped seeing her I started feeling better. I was so surprised.

If you've been with your therapist a while you could ask if there would be a different kind of therapy that might work better for you. What kind do you have now?

My pdoc is well known as a really superior pdoc in the area, so I have no inclinations to leave him. I guess with a pdoc you need to look at whether he values your input, and whether he keeps trying until something works.

 

Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 16, 2003, at 21:31:09

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 15, 2003, at 10:49:55

Just wanted to report that the ice cream consumption has had an effect! I'm not kidding--I ate it yesterday and today and now I am feeling almost normal. But what is that all about? It's like I am another person when I am depressed, and when I'm better, I have no idea who that person was.

I've been in therapy for almost 2 years now (tho I had been in therapy from 93 to 96 with the same therapist). It's hard to say how long my depressions last b/c I have a lot of mixed episodes (like this past Tuesday) where I am agitated, frightened, suicidal, but drinking, driving recklessly, angry, writing like crazy, racing thoughts, etc. Then things start to slow down & I'm in bed, etc. but that only lasts about 3 days. I think I go round like this every month or so.

I remember you talking about your transference issues with your old therapist in one of the old threads (forever therapy?). That is so great that you found someone new who is helping. 18 months of depression--I can't tell you how much I feel for you. Depression is a struggle like nothing I have never known before. Do you have unipolar depression or bipolar?

My therapist is CBT and is really trying to downplay this whole transference phenomena. You are really making me think I should look into at least consulting with someone psychodynamic. How are your therapy sessions different now that you are with a psychodynamic therp rather than CBT? Is it like traditional psychoanalysis--on the couch/word association stuff? How has he been dealing with the transference?


 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 16, 2003, at 23:15:08

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall, posted by allisonf on August 16, 2003, at 21:31:09

Yes. I was in the "Forever Therapy" thread. I have uni-polar depression, all the pain, none of the fun. Ice cream is magic - I go for chocolate if I'm having a bad day, often mint chocolate chip if things are looking up.

How are CBT and Psychodynamic different? I can tell you how my two therapists are different. I don't know how much is theoretical orientation and how much is personal style.

My CBT therapist had a very expressive face, she showed surprise, worry, happiness, disapproval (occasionally). We talked about what was happening in my week. She gave me advice on solving some of my problems - like getting my son to do his homework, or dealing with my ex-husband, or organizing my week so that I had some goals and increased the amount of stuff I was doing. She was very practical. She also taught me some about emotions and how to recognize them. For the first 7 years I believe that she really cared about me - for the last 1 1/2 years I think that she cared, but there was something distracting her.

My Psychodynamic therapist is a "blank slate". In not quite 2 months I have seen him smile twice and look incredulous once - no other emotions. He always waits a certain number of seconds before he'll speak, in case I have something else to say. He occasionally will give me opinions (like he wants me to try to go off my drugs - I'll start trying in September), but not often. He does do instructional stuff, too (like about emotions, hmmmm, maybe I need to understand emotions better). He is less interested in the list of things that I did that week (he said he doesn't want "news"), but I'm not sure what he does want. He has made some good interpretations (like that I was scared to compete with my dad - I think it's really true, I had never thought of it before). No couch, just chairs - very much like the CBT arrangement.

Transference. My issue is that I think that they are mad at me, and that makes me bad (evil, worthless) - so it isn't much fun for me. I had told my CBT therpist that I wanted to do some "deep" work. I have felt that there are issues that are really bothering me, but that our work was too superficial to get to them. She had done a little "deep" work with me years ago - on my self hate. First, she said that she didn't do that kind of work. Then I asked again and she tried, but it was clear that she wasn't comfortable, so it wasn't comfortable for me, and we pretended to finish that work, but we never really did it at all. I had told her that I was in an enormous amount of pain, I don't know if I told her that I thought she was angry - I meant to. Each time I saw her we talked about normal stuff and I got upset again. Usually she was very good at seeing that I was upset and helping me figure out why. At this point, though, it was like she didn't see it, and when I tried to explain part of it she didn't understand. I honestly don't know what was going on.

The pain got bad enough that I was willing to leave this therapist who I was completely dependent on. How scary. I interviewed a number of therapists and told them what was going on with her. I chose this guy and to my relief he said that I didn't have to go back to see her to say goodbye (she knew I was leaving, and had recommended this guy, but my last session with her was very bad and I didn't want to have to see her again). About 6 weeks after I started seeing him I left a session and felt the way that I had when I left her. I figured out that I thought he was disappointed in me. I called him and he said enough so that I wouldn't freak all weekend, and talked about how "this is what therapy is all about...". When I saw him we talked a little and then he went into a lengthy (20 minutes? maybe less, I have no idea) speech about what happens when people are mad. At least I think that is what he was saying - I was paying attention, but I can't remember. When I left his office I felt noticibly better! (When I would leave her office I couldn't even talk to a friend for 6 hours) I don't know what he did, but it was really good. It was talk, but somehow the talk reached the scared places. Then he went on vacation. I want more!!!!

I had a group therapist who is Psychodynamic, and I have seen her a number of times for vacation coverage etc. She makes me feel like she can read my mind. I just talk, and she knows what is behind what I am saying.

If you can describe the transference to your therapist, but she can't address it, I would ask for a referral. I wish that I had figured out a while ago what was going on.

Good luck. Let me know.

 

Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 18, 2003, at 21:58:28

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 16, 2003, at 23:15:08

Thank you *so* much for your message! It was really helpful to hear about your experiences with CBT vs. Psychodynamic. I understand all therapists are a little different, but this gave me a lot to go on. My therapist is CBT and my experience with her has been very similar to yours with your old therapist. I'm definitely curious tho--why did things change so much after 7 good years? Did your feelings for her intensify and she couldn't handle it? Was there something else going on in her life? It does sound like you outgrew her in a way--like you always needed to work on those deeper issues and she just wasn't able to go there with you. Bravo to you for going thru the scary process of leaving (I don't know if I could do it) and finding someone better for you! It sounds like your new therapist is more accepting and open to your needs.

It's a help to me to hear what psychodynamic therapy is like. I'm nervous about the blank slate thing b/c I'm so used to my therapist being such a part of things. But I'm glad to know that you can talk face to face--it's not them behind you on a couch (not that that's an entirely bad set up either...no offense to anyone!) Hmmm...I'm going to therapy tomorrow and I'm going to ask her about her experience with psychoanalysis. I'll let you know...

Thanks again!

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 18, 2003, at 22:56:43

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall, posted by allisonf on August 18, 2003, at 21:58:28

I think that what happened after 7 years is that I became more dependent. This caused me to collect some information about her from the internet and other sources. I ended up with information I shouldn't have had. She freaked out. I think it was down hill from there. I think that her personal information is a particular sore spot for her.

(There's a thread with all the gory details that I can find for you if you are interested - but it's not really applicable to our conversation.)

I wasn't sure I was going to like the blank slate part, but I'm sure that it was helpful in bringing the transference so quickly, so right now I'm happy about it.

Keep me updated. I'd like to know how it goes.

 

Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 19, 2003, at 15:50:17

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 18, 2003, at 22:56:43

You know, I do remember that thread from long ago when you described getting her info from the internet. I have certainly done my share of internet searches on my therapist and her family (another career choice I'm considering is private investigation). I just don't know. I understand your therapist being upset about it (mine has been), but then again, she knew you for 7 years at that point. I would think she would've known to trust that you wouldn't harm her and to try to work with you on it. I'm sorry it didn't work out that way. It sounds like you might be better off.

I will keep you posted re: what happens with therapy. I never ended up getting into it with her today. Got so little sleep last night, I was completely messy in therapy today. We're calling in all the troops (my pdoc, my husband and her) for an intervention-type conference call tonight to address my fragile state. I will get back to it tho, when I'm better. Which I will be someday, right?

Thanks again--A

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 19, 2003, at 23:19:31

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall, posted by allisonf on August 19, 2003, at 15:50:17

Yes, you will be better some day.

In the meantime, bringing all of the great minds together sounds like a great idea. I hope it is productive and you come up with a good plan.

I do feel like I'm better off now than before I switched therapists. I never would have believed it. Sometimes change is good.

Good luck

 

Re: Too Many Pills

Posted by jc12578 on August 20, 2003, at 14:45:45

In reply to Too Many Pills, posted by allisonf on August 13, 2003, at 20:57:10

Hello allison...I know what you are going through...I am 25 and about 6 months ago I was on 22 pills a day...I was on 4 different anti-depressants and god knows what else and I finally got tired of it all and I made one of what you call and "attempt of an attempt" at suicide...I took like 10 benadryl and a couple days doses of pills and drove to the hospital. There I got an IV and charcoal and sent to a mental hospital for evaluation before I was allowed to go home. there I got to talk to a psycharist and and she told me I needed more hugs....and to stay on the pills...NO LIES...and let me go home...so I went home and took everyhting I had...and washed it down with a 5th of vodka...unfortuantly a friend of mine came over to visit and found me and called the ambulance...I was realeased to my mother and am now stuck living at home forever...not a great joy of mine. I made it quit clear if I was going to live I wanted less pills...how ever that is not happening...so I guess i can say I know what you are going through

 

Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 22, 2003, at 8:02:27

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 19, 2003, at 23:19:31

Thanks for the support. The call was productive, my husband is now in charge of the pills, and I am feeling a little better. Tho everytime one of these episodes happens, my confidence is really shaken. I struggle b/t trying to do all the things I used to just to prove to myself I am ok again, and trying to take it easy the way I would if I was getting over any illness.

Anyways! Glad things are really working out with your new therp. Is he back from vacation yet? I will keep you posted, and please do the same.
Take care--A

 

Re: Too Many Pills jc12578

Posted by allisonf on August 22, 2003, at 8:33:02

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills, posted by jc12578 on August 20, 2003, at 14:45:45

Hi jc, I am so sorry for what you have had to go thru. It absolutely seems like 22 pills/day & 4 ADs is a little extreme--like they should be able to narrow it down better than that. I find that my pdoc tends to just keep adding things to the mix without taking anything away (b/c "we can only do one experiment at a time") so that I end up on extra stuff that I know isn't working for me.

I am also so sorry about your unhelpful trips to the hospital. You need more hugs? Doesn't everyone? I can't believe she would just blindly tell you to stay on all the pills, not address your issues with the quantity of them, and then just send you home without any plan for someone to watch the pills or take care of you.

I wish I had some great advice on how to get them to lower the number of meds you're on, but I'm definitely struggling thru the same thing. I don't know...I would take any meds if I thought they would really help. It's the handful of pills that I have to take but that can't prevent this kind of episode that I object to. My therp promises me that at some point we will find the right combination of pills to make this better, but there are times it's hard to have faith.

After hearing your story, I just wanted to say I'm really very glad that your friend happened to find you in time. You sound like a very perceptive person and it was kind of you to post here when you have been going thru so much lately. Good luck to you.

 

Re: Too Many Pills allisonf

Posted by fallsfall on August 23, 2003, at 12:44:02

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills fallsfall, posted by allisonf on August 22, 2003, at 8:02:27

I'm glad things are settling down for you. Taking it easy is a real key for me. My favorite remedy is ice cream. I recommend it highly.

My therapist is back from vacation and working me hard. Loads of fun. But I am ready to work so I think it is a good thing.

 

Thanks...eating more ice cream today :) (nm) fallsfall

Posted by allisonf on August 24, 2003, at 11:06:20

In reply to Re: Too Many Pills allisonf, posted by fallsfall on August 23, 2003, at 12:44:02


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