Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 218199

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Culture Shock

Posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

This is just irritating the hell out of me. I keep trying to get past it, but I can't.

The psychiatrist I've been seeing for a couple of months now is from Pakistan. I don't know how long he's been in the U.S., but his accent is quite heavy and I know he makes frequent trips to
the Middle East to visit his family.

I don't care that the guy is from Pakistan, but I do care about his attitude. He's always very abrupt and impatient with me. When I'm talking, he cuts me off in the middle of a sentence. He gets pissy if I admit to having as much as a single glass of wine or more than a couple of cups of coffee. A few weeks ago, he gave me some paperwork to have bloodwork done, but I haven't gotten around to it. I TOLD him that my whole life is in chaos, that my husband is leaving me,
that I'm trying to get together 20 years of my stuff so I can move out, that I'm trying to find a lawyer, that I have no money. He has no comment about any of this, but he's frustrated with me because I haven't gotten the bloodwork done. First he tells me, when I'm leaving his office, that he won't see me again until I have the bloodwork results. After I get home, he has somebody on his staff call me and she says, "Dr. Jerk wants you to know that if you don't have that bloodwork done by next Friday, he's discharging you as his patient."

I just stared at the phone. I thought, what is this man's problem? But I do think I know. I was complaining to my therapist about Dr. Jerk, how rude he was to me, and I could tell that she wanted to say something but didn't know whether to say it. I told her, "Look, I'm in a bind, please tell me what you're thinking. Does he treat all of his patients this way, or did I do something that he just really hates?"

Finally she says, "Well, please don't tell him I mentioned this, but...you know, where he comes from, in Pakistan, women are second-class citizens. They're not much more than property."

My eyes got really wide, and then I got angry. Why, the asshole was irritated with me for
DISOBEYING him, and probably for wasting his time.
After all, during the 15 minutes allotted to me, he could be helping a MAN or cleaning his fingernails or something. I felt like going back to his office and beating the crap out of him,
see how he likes the second-class citizen opening up a can of whoop-ass. I'll SHOW him bloodwork,
macho scuzzball. If he doesn't like uppity American women, he can get himself right on the next plane back to Pakistan.

Okay, I feel better now. Guess it's time for a new psychiatrist.
-Gracie

 

Re: Culture Shock white rabbit

Posted by WorryGirl on April 10, 2003, at 13:58:02

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

Unfortunately, I think your perception was right on target. Good luck finding a different psychiatrist.

 

Re: Culture Shock

Posted by mair on April 10, 2003, at 15:27:26

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

Gracie - the psychiatrist I see now was one recommended to me by my therapist, not by my last psychiatrist. Somehow it feels a little better knowing that they can work together and communicate and obviously have some professional regard for one another.

Mair

 

Re: Culture Shock

Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 16:14:56

In reply to Re: Culture Shock, posted by mair on April 10, 2003, at 15:27:26

Oh, boy. That is a big one.

The other thing I was thinking, before I got to the paragraph about what your therapist said, is that there could be cultural communication issues but I wasn't thinking about treatment of women in particular. I was thinking about speech patterns and tone of voice, etc. and cultural differences in how doctors and patients relate to each other--expectations of how patients are supposed to look up to doctors and obey, etc.--that these are very different in the two cultures.

Either way, if you are not comfortable with a doctor, there is no reason to stay with him. Plus, what mair said about finding a pdoc that will work well with not only you, but on the same wavelength as your therapist.

 

Re: Culture Shock

Posted by shar on April 10, 2003, at 21:12:15

In reply to Re: Culture Shock, posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 16:14:56

I've had the same concern, a few years back. The pdoc was an HMO-approved fellow, and his name looked like it could be one from a culture in which women are treated pretty horribly, so when I called to make the appointment I asked where he was from (what country) and how long he'd been practicing (in the u.s.).

It turned out he was not from such a culture, and our relationship was fine (til he dropped the hmo). But, I would not have gone if he had been from certain countries.

Shar

 

Re: Culture Shock white rabbit

Posted by jane d on April 11, 2003, at 18:14:54

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

WR,
I always am a bit cautious when dealing with men from certain cultures. I've been reprimanded for it by men who share my beliefs against prejudging people and all I can say to them is "you don't understand". I have to be aware of other people's possible prejudices or else end up being devastated by the bad treatment it sometimes results in. At the same time I try to remember that even in the most repressive cultures not everybody shares the same beliefs and that immigrants especially may be people who weren't comfortable with the way things worked at home. Are you sure it's women he feels are inferior and not all patients. He sounds like another subscriber to the doctor as god and psychiatric patients as the lowest of the low school of thought. Luckily you don't need to decide why he's the way he is. You've got a good reason to find someone else. Good luck with the hunt.

I also sometimes wonder how much even less obvious barriers get in the way. The famous "cultural sensitivity". Especially in psych. Can you really judge how much of the course of someones life has been driven by illness and how much by poverty if you've always been wealthy? Or what is paranoia and what is real discrimination if you've only read about it in a brief class? Or how much repeated failures take out of you if you had made it into and through medical school?

Jane

 

Re: Culture Shock to Gracie

Posted by coral on April 13, 2003, at 8:30:43

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

Dear Gracie,

I could be way off base here --- but unless your therapist actually knows him, she's passing on a stereotype. She may know him and based on her experiences, knows that he's a chauvinist pig of the worst sort. If so, I apologize.

Coral

 

Re: Culture Shock white rabbit

Posted by Phil on April 14, 2003, at 19:32:26

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

I hope this doctor from hell doesn't do ECT. If you have a state Medical Examiners office I would report him. Or any other organization that would take action against him.
I've had two, one appt each, pdocs that were arrogant, loud-mouthed morons. Absolute idiots that I'm sure thought they cured me in one visit.
I would not see this guy again unless you need a new script.
He's a vexation to the sisterhood of broads. So insensitive. I could never be insensitive to chicks, the nerve. :^) Hope you're laughing.

 

Re: laughing! Phil

Posted by jane d on April 14, 2003, at 22:38:14

In reply to Re: Culture Shock white rabbit, posted by Phil on April 14, 2003, at 19:32:26

But you may owe me a free pass on one injudicious joke about guys.

 

Re: the tests? white rabbit

Posted by jane d on April 15, 2003, at 9:47:52

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

> A few weeks ago, he gave me some paperwork to have bloodwork done, but I haven't gotten around to it. I TOLD him that my whole life is in chaos, that my husband is leaving me,
> that I'm trying to get together 20 years of my stuff so I can move out, that I'm trying to find a lawyer, that I have no money. He has no comment about any of this, but he's frustrated with me because I haven't gotten the bloodwork done. First he tells me, when I'm leaving his office, that he won't see me again until I have the bloodwork results. After I get home, he has somebody on his staff call me and she says, "Dr. Jerk wants you to know that if you don't have that bloodwork done by next Friday, he's discharging you as his patient."

White Rabbit,
I'm still angry at the way he talked to you, I still think you should look for someone else but.....

How important are these tests that you haven't gotten around to? Some of these drugs we take have some pretty nasty potential side effects. Actually the diseases themselves are pretty nasty also. Too nasty to risk delaying getting any information that might help you. I do know about being so overwhelmed by the present that it is impossible to worry about any long term consequences but somehow you have to manage the long term anyway. Especially when "long term" may just be next month as opposed to today. So, please - get your tests.

Jane

 

Tests

Posted by white rabbit on April 15, 2003, at 10:18:23

In reply to Re: the tests? white rabbit, posted by jane d on April 15, 2003, at 9:47:52


I have an appointment tomorrow with doc and I'll get my blood drawn then (at least my GP is a sweetie). I'm almost afraid to know the results, I can picture my liver frantically waving a little white surrender flag. I know that livers can regenerate but every organ must have a point of no return! Pass the milk thistle.
-Gracie
P.S. You funny, Phil ;-)

 

This make me angry

Posted by janejj on April 18, 2003, at 21:58:10

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

This makes me really angry, you cannot just assume things about people from their ethnic background that is just racist. I mean what could I say about an American Pdoc!? That they are all fat, self obssessed and think no-one else exists in the world but them ! Its just pure bigotry.

I don't want to get personal because I know alot of people on here are suffering and all, but please keep your bigotry to yourself.

 

Sure thing, sweets

Posted by white rabbit on April 18, 2003, at 22:48:47

In reply to This make me angry, posted by janejj on April 18, 2003, at 21:58:10


I'm in the middle of a nasty divorce, so "bigot"
is actually the nicest thing that I've been called today. Thanks for the lift.
Shalom,
-Gracie

 

Re: Sure thing, sweets white rabbit

Posted by janejj on April 18, 2003, at 23:04:53

In reply to Sure thing, sweets, posted by white rabbit on April 18, 2003, at 22:48:47

Hi Gracie,

I'm sorry, this isn't personal against you, I am just a bit overly sensitive when it come it things like this. I regret posting in such a heated manner !

Sorry to hear about your divorce....I hope you find some peace soon...

God Bless, janejj :)

 

Re: Sure thing, sweets janejj

Posted by ayuda on April 19, 2003, at 20:40:44

In reply to Re: Sure thing, sweets white rabbit, posted by janejj on April 18, 2003, at 23:04:53

> Hi Gracie,
>
> I'm sorry, this isn't personal against you, I am just a bit overly sensitive when it come it things like this. I regret posting in such a heated manner !
>
> Sorry to hear about your divorce....I hope you find some peace soon...
>
> God Bless, janejj :)

I am not trying to defend bigotry or racism here, but I will defend a therapist's view of a pdoc. When I was in Baltimore my pdoc was kind of strange -- a nice enough man, but you could tell he had his own issues. One of his "compulsions" was that he had this little note-taking thingy that he typed into the entire time you were talking to him -- he rarely looked up at you. I had plans each visit to do something to make him look up at me -- nothing evil, just stop in the middle of my sentences and have long silences, so he would have to look up to see if I was still with it. It was fairly unnerving of him, but not earth-shattering.

My therapist had other patients of his, and on one visit, I just had to mention that he seemed distant. She asked if it was the incessant typing, and I said YES, that is part of it. Came to find out that her other patients had also complained about the exact same thing, and many left him because they didn't feel he cared. He was a good friend of a co-worker of mine, and he did diagnose me well and tried the best meds with me, and even through his typing (probably typing down every word I said, which is the same as them tape-recording then transcribing, kind of), he DID pay attention, he was hearing me, he was just neurotic himself.

However, my point is, that by my therapist talking about his "manner," she was not running him down, she knew what the complaints were about him. From what Gracie said, it could very well be that her therapist knows something about the man and how he has treated other patients, male and female, and has come to a conclusion after ruling out other possibilities. It may also be (if this is a small mental health community or hmo) that she knows of his attitudes personally but doesn't consider it to be professional to say, I know this for a fact, so she puts it as a possibility. From Gracie's story, what I got was that her therapist has inside info on this man, and not that she was being racist or bigoted. But maybe I think too highly of humanity and give people too much credit?

 

Re: Sure thing, sweets

Posted by whiterabbit on April 20, 2003, at 9:21:16

In reply to Re: Sure thing, sweets janejj, posted by ayuda on April 19, 2003, at 20:40:44

Thank you Ayuda, you are correct. My therapist knows this doctor very well as they work together in a dual diagnosis program at the hospital. She really is a wise and wonderful person and would never generalize in that manner ("All Pakistani men are like that"). She wouldn't have given me her personal opinion on this particular doctor
except that I was so obviously distressed by his
criticism. I've been trying very hard to make progress on his strict instructions of NO alcohol and NO coffee, but espresso and red wine are like
MAJOR joys in my life (I mean, what does that leave me? Just chocolate). Still, despite my sincere efforts to cut down, Dr. Happy isn't interested in "progress" and has been irritated with me for not dropping these two passions immediately. Then he threatened to discharge me as his patient if I didn't meet his deadline for having blood drawn.

I have no question about his competency...despite my dismal psychiatric history, he was the first psychiatrist to recommend therapy for me (what's up with that??) and I'm doing quite well on medication. I just wish that he would can the attitude.
-Gracie

 

Re: Sure thing, sweets whiterabbit

Posted by katia on May 16, 2003, at 1:20:58

In reply to Re: Sure thing, sweets, posted by whiterabbit on April 20, 2003, at 9:21:16

> Thank you Ayuda, you are correct. My therapist knows this doctor very well as they work together in a dual diagnosis program at the hospital. She really is a wise and wonderful person and would never generalize in that manner ("All Pakistani men are like that"). She wouldn't have given me her personal opinion on this particular doctor
> except that I was so obviously distressed by his
> criticism. I've been trying very hard to make progress on his strict instructions of NO alcohol and NO coffee, but espresso and red wine are like
> MAJOR joys in my life (I mean, what does that leave me? Just chocolate). Still, despite my sincere efforts to cut down, Dr. Happy isn't interested in "progress" and has been irritated with me for not dropping these two passions immediately. Then he threatened to discharge me as his patient if I didn't meet his deadline for having blood drawn.
>
> I have no question about his competency...despite my dismal psychiatric history, he was the first psychiatrist to recommend therapy for me (what's up with that??) and I'm doing quite well on medication. I just wish that he would can the attitude.
> -Gracie

You're paying him - bottom line. Let's define roles here and stop confusing issues. he's "supposedly" a professional - you shouldn't have to try and interpret to this degree about "his stuff". That's for his "doctor"/therapist (if it even exists)to work out, not for his client. No matter what the prestige or degrees, if it doesn't feel safe and helpful and you've explored these issues with your therapist, drop him like a hot potato. No need to figure him out or what his prejudices are etc. don't waste anymore precious mental energy on this man. it's not your job. you shouldn't have to do that. get a new pdoc.
that's my advice.
Katia

 

New psychiatrist katia

Posted by whiterabbit on May 16, 2003, at 12:25:53

In reply to Re: Sure thing, sweets whiterabbit, posted by katia on May 16, 2003, at 1:20:58

I agree absolutely. I always advise other people to find a new doctor/psychiatrist/specialist/therapist if they
aren't comfortable with the person who's treating them...I've worked with doctors for many years, seen good ones and not-so-good ones. They're prone to all the human weaknesses and vices that the rest of us are, surprise surprise.

So whatEVER this guy's problem is...whether he doesn't like me personally, whether he feels that he's superior to all women, whether he's got a bad case of job burn-out or whether he's just plain nasty to everyone...I totally agree, it's his problem and not mine, not anymore.

I have an appointment next week with a new guy, my therapist likes him and I've heard some good things about him, so maybe this is THE one. At this point in my life, I'm with-it enough to know that I need psychiatric medication and a good doctor to moniter my progress. So that's a big step.
-Gracie

 

Re: New psychiatrist

Posted by katia on May 16, 2003, at 13:18:14

In reply to New psychiatrist katia, posted by whiterabbit on May 16, 2003, at 12:25:53

> I agree absolutely. I always advise other people to find a new doctor/psychiatrist/specialist/therapist if they
> aren't comfortable with the person who's treating them...I've worked with doctors for many years, seen good ones and not-so-good ones. They're prone to all the human weaknesses and vices that the rest of us are, surprise surprise.
>
> So whatEVER this guy's problem is...whether he doesn't like me personally, whether he feels that he's superior to all women, whether he's got a bad case of job burn-out or whether he's just plain nasty to everyone...I totally agree, it's his problem and not mine, not anymore.
>
> I have an appointment next week with a new guy, my therapist likes him and I've heard some good things about him, so maybe this is THE one.
HI Gracie,

>At this point in my life, I'm with-it enough to >know that I need psychiatric medication and a good doctor to moniter my progress. So that's a big step.
> -Gracie

good for you. that's a big step. good luck with your new pdoc.

It's so important to rememberthat doctors are human too! and to not give all faith in them w/o question. sometimes it's not the right match. It's really good to trust your instincts.
katia

 

Re: New psychiatrist whiterabbit

Posted by noa on May 21, 2003, at 17:46:52

In reply to New psychiatrist katia, posted by whiterabbit on May 16, 2003, at 12:25:53

Keep us posted, Gracie!

 

Re: Culture Shock

Posted by Ellie's Mom on May 21, 2003, at 20:37:27

In reply to Culture Shock, posted by white rabbit on April 10, 2003, at 12:36:15

Don't worry, there are plenty of a-hole male (and female) doctors out there that aren't from Pakistan.

What's more important than his nationality is this creep's treatment of you. He's supposed to be on your side.

Kick him to the curb, sweetie. There are plenty of decent docs out there that actually want to HELP. Just keep in mind that if their bedside demeanor were all that great, they'd be therapists or teachers or social workers -- catch my drift?

But at minimum, the jackass should never ever make you feel the way he did.

Don't waste any time. Start shopping.

 

Re: blocked for week Ellie's Mom

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2003, at 18:08:04

In reply to Re: Culture Shock, posted by Ellie's Mom on May 21, 2003, at 20:37:27

> But at minimum, the jack*ss should never ever make you feel the way he did.

I think it's great that you're supporting white rabbit, but I've already asked you not to use language that could offend others, so now I'm going to block you from posting for a week.

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.

 

Sorry, Ellie's Mom 8-( (nm)

Posted by whiterabbit on May 23, 2003, at 19:08:46

In reply to Re: blocked for week Ellie's Mom, posted by Dr. Bob on May 23, 2003, at 18:08:04


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