Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 832600

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Re: Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 23:33:51

In reply to Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:28:14

> > Hey Lou...
> >
> > Here is an interesting little 'blurb' about Yancey's book and the concept of 'Grace' as an underlying theme in the Bible.
> >
> > "This grace is the true message of Jesus....Jesus speaks merely of receiving the love that God has for us. Accepting it, not earning it or making ourselves worthy of it. And frankly, accepting something we have not earned or are not worthy of is not an easy thing for most of us.
> >
> > ....Believers and nonbelievers alike should accept Yancey's challenge to become agents of grace rather than agents of vengeance or judgment or anger."
> >
> > I really like that. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue these days.
> >
> > Jay
>
> Jay, You wrote,[...Sadly, it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...].
> I am unsure as to what you used to determine that it doesn't seem to be. If you could cite what you used to make that determination, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>

Okay, Lou why don't you start talking and let me read. :-)? Second, about your question, pick up any newspaper.

Jay

 

Re: Lou's request for identification-ohneliegh? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 0:10:35

In reply to Lou's request for identification-ohneliegh? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 27, 2008, at 18:01:25

Lou,

Yes, I do believe "..grace, (is) the most powerful force in the universe and our only hope for love and forgiveness." I am talking here, though, about the concept of grace that I have known even way before I became a Christian. The great author Ernest Hemingway used the term Grace Under Pressure to explain how we as humans can be simply amazing by showing grace even in the worst of times. A few Nazi Concentration Camp survivors have also used the term.
And no, it is not exclusive to Christianity either.

Jay

 

Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 7:04:51

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-hateigen? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 27, 2008, at 23:33:51

Jay,
You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 8:35:28

In reply to Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 7:04:51

> Jay,
> You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
> Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
> Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
> I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
> If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
> Lou

Lou,

I'd just like to hear your comments on things. Besides that, I really cannot be more clear about "picking up the paper" to show that grace is not something widely pursued in the world these days. For example, in my local paper, some guy threw his baby kitten from the 5th floor balcony of his apartment, (and the kitty survived) and so then the guy went and got his car and ran over the cat, which obviously it didn't survive. "Dis-grace", really. Look at all the wars, the killing of innocent people (no matter what side you are on..) That is my final answer, because this could go on forever.

Peace,
Jay

 

Lou's response to aspects for members-heighneun

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 9:47:49

In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-dostyevskiegh, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 28, 2008, at 8:35:28

> > Jay,
> > You wrote,[...why don't you start talking...?]
> > Could you post here what topic that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read? If you could, then I could know what it is that you would like for me to write about that you would like to read and concentrate on that topic.
> > Also, you wrote,[...pick up {any} newspaper...]
> > I am unsure as to what to look for in any newspaper that could show that, [...it doesn't seem to be a concept many pursue...](agents of grace).
> > If you could elaborate more on that, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean for me to look for in any newspaper and then respond accordingly.
> > Lou
>
> Lou,
>
> I'd just like to hear your comments on things. Besides that, I really cannot be more clear about "picking up the paper" to show that grace is not something widely pursued in the world these days. For example, in my local paper, some guy threw his baby kitten from the 5th floor balcony of his apartment, (and the kitty survived) and so then the guy went and got his car and ran over the cat, which obviously it didn't survive. "Dis-grace", really. Look at all the wars, the killing of innocent people (no matter what side you are on..) That is my final answer, because this could go on forever.
>
> Peace,
> Jay

Friends,
It is written here,[...I'd...like to hear your comments on {things}...].
I am unsure as to what the things could or could not be, so if you are following this thread and would like for me to comment on something, just post what you would like for me to comment on specifically and I wil try to post my perspective concerning what you are requesting for me to comment on.
Lou

 

Re: Lou..What are your thoughts on 'grace'? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 8:00:43

In reply to Lou's response to aspects for members-heighneun, posted by Lou PIlder on June 28, 2008, at 9:47:49

Lou,

Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?

Jay :)

 

Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on June 30, 2008, at 19:29:34

In reply to Re: Lou..What are your thoughts on 'grace'? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 8:00:43

> Lou,
>
> Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
>
> Jay :)
Jay,
You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 23:44:30

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on June 30, 2008, at 19:29:34

> > Lou,
> >
> > Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
> >
> > Jay :)
> Jay,
> You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
> I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
>

Lou, I beg you, please don't answer a question with a question..lol. :-) I just want to know..regardless of what I think or anybody thinks...what does the word 'grace' mean to you?
That's all. Thanks...
Jay :)

 

Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay-wtizgrc? Lou PIlder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 30, 2008, at 23:44:30

> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > Okay, here is a question. What do you think of the concept of "grace", and how would you advise spreading in your (or anyone's) lives?
> > >
> > > Jay :)
> > Jay,
> > You wrote,[...What do you think of the concept of grace and how would you advise spreading...].
> > I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and in reading your posts in this thread as to what your concept of grace is. If I was to know that, then I could better respond accordingly.
> > Lou
> >
> >
>
> Lou, I beg you, please don't answer a question with a question..lol. :-) I just want to know..regardless of what I think or anybody thinks...what does the word 'grace' mean to you?
> That's all. Thanks...
> Jay :)

Jay,
You wrote,[...what does the word "grace" mean to you?...].
I would like to post my answer here to you queston, for I think that it could be important to members that are reading this.
Going back when I first posted here, I thought that I could make a short contribution and leave. But after reading many posts I realized that what has been revealed to me of the deep things about God could IMO help others here.
I was talking about what has been revealed to me about overcomming and then about the two minds and there is a third mind that I have not written about. And I was writing about a kingdom, that is not of this world, a kingdom of peace, a promised land to go to. It has been revealed to me that this land is not a place here. It is in heaven. And it has been revealed to me that one can be in that city of peace, in heaven, a paradise. And today, you could be in paradise.
In heaven there is no death like there is on earth. There is no pain like there is on earth. There are no one addicted like there are on earth. There is no hate like there is on earth. There is no darkness like there is on earth. There is light and peace. And when one is there, they have overcome the world and all that is in the world. They are in paradise.
This kingdom is available to all. It has been revealed to me that it is the will of the God that I worship that all come over to the promised land, passsing over the Great Gulf. For it has been revealed ot me that that God's will is to have what is in heaven to be here on earth. It has been revealed to me that that kingdom can come to you, here , now, on earth as it is in heaven, for it has been revealed to me that that kingdom is a spiritual kingdom.
Are there debtors in heaven? Do those in heaven seek to collect debts, or are they forgiven?? Is there evil in heaven? Are all the evil things done to you forgiven in heaven? Are those in heaven seeking to be delivered from evil? Is there temptation in heaven? Are those in heaven seeking to be delivered from temptation?
It has been revealed to me that there is power and glory in heaven and that that power can be here to you on earth as it is in heaven. Heaven has been revealed to me to be the place where the Father is. And it has been revealed to me that one can go into their closet and pray to the Father that his kingdom come here to you as it is in heaven. And when that prayer is made, it has been reveled to me that one could be led with joy and be led forth with peace, the mountains and hills could come forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field could clap their hands.
My friends, trees do not have hands. The tress have been revealed to me to be symbols, symbols of people. In the kingdom of God when you passover the great gulf you will be met by a multitude of people, as I was, clapping their hands for you by entering. All the old things have passed away, you have all things new. There is no guilt or shame, or enemies. And there was a Rider on a White Horse when I passed over to the Kingdom. And I asked how this happened and He said to me,"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."
Lou

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Lou PIlder

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 1:43:20

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

Interesting reply Lou. It sounds like we have some things in common. You wrote "For it has been revealed to me that that God's will is to have what is in heaven to be here on earth." I have taken the belief of "On Earth as it is in Heaven" to heart, and try to practice it in my life daily. I often pray that this actually occurs moreso, because I want "Heaven on Earth" RIGHT NOW..lol. I want to see the wars stop, the hunger gone, the poverty erased, the sick cured, etc. I am not much of a believer that we should rush through all our lives for the "Kingdom". I've lost a lot in my life, including a child and a wife, and I don't believe God put me through so much pain if it was as simple as "Everything will be alright in the end." Maybe you and others disagree, and that is perfectly fine. But, considering the trauma I went through, that millions go through who lose children, families, etc, etc, it is a deeply dark experience that moreso resembles a "Hell", Lou. Through the experience of many loving, open arms of people with unconditional love, I was able to get my Faith back. And I still do have some "days" where I fall to pieces, but I know now I have some hope to get back up again. Anyhow...thanks for listening..

Peace,
Jay

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv

Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 3:13:04

In reply to Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou PIlder on July 1, 2008, at 21:31:41

Grace is not earned and is not gained by effort(?).
It has nothing to do with thinking that you are a good person (our politicians have done things to my brain).
A few of the people I knew who (I think) had grace killed themselves.


Lou
That was lovely.
Thank you.

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Sigismund

Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 17:24:11

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay-phoargv, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 3:13:04

> Grace is not earned and is not gained by effort(?).
> It has nothing to do with thinking that you are a good person (our politicians have done things to my brain).
> A few of the people I knew who (I think) had grace killed themselves.
>
>
>
>
> Lou
> That was lovely.
> Thank you.

Sig, THAT was really great what you wrote! And I do believe that many people who have committed suicide have been very graceful people, as 'grace' is not some trait or commodity we tally up. It can be action, or inaction, as in the way of Jesus' non-violent footsteps. Now this may really cause a stir-up, but personally, I don't really believe there is a place called "Hell", in particularly not in the conventional way we are taught. I have to do some more research on this topic, so I will get back to it.

Best,
Jay :)

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Jay_Bravest_Face

Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 17:33:55

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Sigismund, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on July 2, 2008, at 17:24:11

Hi Jay

Hell as a real place?

I remember thinking when the Pope said it didn't exist as a real place ....'You've lost your nerve. This is a bit of a cave in to the spirit of the times.'

OTOH I cannot believe in a God who would allow such a thing, not a real place, not the fiery pit. It can (surely?) only be humans who do this kind of thing with our nooses and our red hot iron thrones, our bizarre and unusual punishments, our torture and our politics.
If God is like us................

 

Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Sigismund

Posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2008, at 3:50:09

In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Jay... Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 17:33:55

Maybe King Lear is some help with this.

Gloucester, his eyes being out, says....
'I have heard more since:
As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods
They kill us for their sport.'

And Edgar (at some point) replies.....
'What? In ill thoughts again?
Men must endure their going hence, even as their coming hither.
Ripeness is all.
Come on.'

 

Re: Jesus is Savior IAMtheWalrus

Posted by Zeba on August 20, 2008, at 12:01:02

In reply to Jesus is Savior, posted by IAMtheWalrus on June 2, 2008, at 21:03:40

And not everyone believes as you do, IAMtheWalrus. There are many other religions in the world, and I believe God would be just fine with that. In my opinion, God seems to be more tolerant than many folks in the world who profess they have the "true" religion whether they be Christian, Muslim, Buddist, Jewish, Pagan, etc. I like to think of God as loving all persons in the world.

Zeba

 

Re: Jesus is Savior

Posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 8:02:46

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior Sigismund, posted by rayww on June 3, 2008, at 9:20:47

I happened to be passing by and became interested in this thread.

> What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.

I find the word "only" to be factually inaccurate.

That's all.


- Scott

 

Lou's request- SLS

Posted by Lou Pilder on September 26, 2009, at 3:51:51

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 8:02:46

Scott,
I was passing this way also and saw your statement posted here concerning the statement in question.
Would you be willing to post to other statements here of a similar nature?
Also, would you be willing to post here your thinking as to the potential effect that the statement could have on Jews and others that do not accept that claim as being (redacted by respondent)?
Lou

 

Lou's request-condition for accommodating request

Posted by Lou Pilder on September 26, 2009, at 7:23:45

In reply to Lou's request- SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 26, 2009, at 3:51:51

> Scott,
> I was passing this way also and saw your statement posted here concerning the statement in question.
> Would you be willing to post to other statements here of a similar nature?
> Also, would you be willing to post here your thinking as to the potential effect that the statement could have on Jews and others that do not accept that claim as being (redacted by respondent)?
> Lou

Scott,
The condition that I would like for you to follow if you are willing to post to othere statements here of a similar nature, is that;
A. You first email what you want to post to Mr. Hsiung for his approval to post or not such.
Lou

 

Re: Jesus is Savior SLS

Posted by number42 on September 26, 2009, at 14:53:49

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior, posted by SLS on September 14, 2009, at 8:02:46

> I happened to be passing by and became interested in this thread.
>
> > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
>
> I find the word "only" to be factually inaccurate.
>
> That's all.
>
>
> - Scott
>

Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.

#42

 

Lou's request-repltheo

Posted by Lou Pilder on September 26, 2009, at 20:30:15

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior SLS, posted by number42 on September 26, 2009, at 14:53:49

> > I happened to be passing by and became interested in this thread.
> >
> > > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> >
> > I find the word "only" to be factually inaccurate.
> >
> > That's all.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.
>
> #42

Friends
It is written here,[...Jesus xxx is the yyyy zzz...]
I am requesting that if you are considering to post here in this thread, or parallel threads, that you take into consideration to do a search on what is known as {replacement theology}. If you could, then if I post here later, I think that you could have a better understanding of what I could be posting here in this thread if you have a knowlege of such.
Lou

 

Re: the only way number42

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2009, at 3:48:42

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior SLS, posted by number42 on September 26, 2009, at 14:53:49

> Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.

If you mean they believe it's the only way back for them, that's fine, but if you mean they believe it's the only way back for everyone, I'd rather you discussed that elsewhere, see:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7889.html

Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: the only way Dr. Bob

Posted by number42 on September 28, 2009, at 13:52:37

In reply to Re: the only way number42, posted by Dr. Bob on September 27, 2009, at 3:48:42

> > Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.
>
> If you mean they believe it's the only way back for them, that's fine, but if you mean they believe it's the only way back for everyone, I'd rather you discussed that elsewhere, see:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7889.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob

okay.

#42

 

Re: Jesus is Savior number42

Posted by SLS on September 29, 2009, at 20:29:54

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior SLS, posted by number42 on September 26, 2009, at 14:53:49

> > I happened to be passing by and became interested in this thread.
> >
> > > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> >
> > I find the word "only" to be factually inaccurate.
> >
> > That's all.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.

That is not what was said.

I understand Christianity well enough to appreciate your sentiments. However, it is not true that Christianity is the only religion that "offers a pathway" for one to return back to God. Many religions offer pathways. Some even offer multiple pathways.

The two words "offer" and "a" are critically important. I probably would have declined to comment on the post had the phraseology not contain them. I would agree that it is factually correct that it is the belief of Christians that theirs is the only way back to God.


- Scott

 

Re: Jesus is Savior SLS

Posted by number42 on September 30, 2009, at 11:21:18

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior number42, posted by SLS on September 29, 2009, at 20:29:54

> > > I happened to be passing by and became interested in this thread.
> > >
> > > > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> > >
> > > I find the word "only" to be factually inaccurate.
> > >
> > > That's all.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> >
> > Christians, which i happen to be, believe Jesus "factually" is the only way back to God.
>
> That is not what was said.
>
> I understand Christianity well enough to appreciate your sentiments. However, it is not true that Christianity is the only religion that "offers a pathway" for one to return back to God. Many religions offer pathways. Some even offer multiple pathways.
>
> The two words "offer" and "a" are critically important. I probably would have declined to comment on the post had the phraseology not contain them. I would agree that it is factually correct that it is the belief of Christians that theirs is the only way back to God.
>
>
> - Scott

You're correct, i missed the word "offer".

#42

 

Re: Jesus is Savior

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 14:59:46

In reply to Re: Jesus is Savior Sigismund, posted by rayww on June 3, 2008, at 9:20:47

> What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God. Now if you don't believe we came from God in the first place, this isn't going to mean much to you.

The above could be read as saying other religions don't offer such a pathway. It would've been more civil to say:

> > What is Christianity? A religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God. Now if you don't believe we came from God in the first place, this isn't going to mean much to you.

Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.

Bob


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