Psycho-Babble Faith Thread 940243

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Lou's reply- Laney

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 14:20:14

In reply to Re: Lou's reply-crwnovlif, posted by Laney on April 26, 2010, at 13:34:25

> Lou,
>
> I appreciate your wanting to help people see truth. I understand everything your talking about. First of all I don't believe the Lord condemns me for taking paxil. This is a much more complicated issue than you put it. In times past, when someone was going through something in their life whatever problems might have arose, I would share the good news of Jesus. And I mean to say it's very good news! Quite honestly, a relationship and following Him has brought the most fulfillment and help to my life during times of crisis and not. But right now my mind is I believe messed up because it is depressed and I believe because paxil changed my brain chemistry and when I took it away, my brain didn't just go back to "normal" What happened instead, is I am stuck with what I call a chemical depression. Boy wouldn't I love to have God take it away and be fine without medication. I have prayed and prayed. For whatever reasons, He has chosen not to miraculously fix or cure me. I don't blame Him. He would never be at fault and it would never do me one ounce of any good to hold it against Him. So what would you suggest I do? Stay in this miserable condition forever? I don't think so. What do I tell my friends and anyone I know who might be going through a hard time? Do I push drugs? Heck no, I tell them right away about my history with paxil and what it's done to me. But in a lot of cases, once you've taken these meds, you'll have to keep taking something in order to feel "normal". At least that's how I see it in my case. I wish it weren't so. I tried for a year or better to treat it naturally and prayed and prayed about it and tried to draw close to the Lord and enjoy the presence and purpose of that relationship that had always made such a difference in my life. I wasn't getting any better and actually worse. I would have loved to come down with something that would have taken my life like cancer or some other serious illness just for relief. What kind of life is that? I know where I'm going and I'm not afraid to go. I know Who's hand I'll be in. I know I would suffer no more.
>
> Please don't oversimplify this whole med thing. I think most people would say they're way overused, and if anything else could help do that first. But for many if this saves a life (suicide), then by all means take something if it's going to help. Please be carefull about interpreting the Bible to mean that we are going to hell if we take these meds.
>
> The God I see and believe in, knows the heart and would not condemn me, now way no how for where I'm at.
>
> Laney

Laney,
You wrote,[...I appreciate you wanting to help people...I underdtand...I don't believe.. for taking...].
This discussion is concerning what the bible that a member here uses does or not teach as others here have posted. I have cited some verses that show that that bible does indicate that there is life after death.
A discussion concerning as to what that bible teaches in relation to (redacted by respondent) has many other verses that are part of one making their own decision as to what that bible teaches concerning such.
My understanding of that biblical topic could come from a Jewish perspective and Mr. Hsiung has posted a threat to expell from this forum if I was to post that in my experiance it has been revealed to me that I have a commandment from my God to me that( redacted by respondent) which is the foundation of Judaism. So I may not be able to post here the answers to the questions that you have posted to me.
Lou

 

Lou's reply- Lou Pilder

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 19:42:04

In reply to Lou's reply- Laney, posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 14:20:14

> > Lou,
> >
> > I appreciate your wanting to help people see truth. I understand everything your talking about. First of all I don't believe the Lord condemns me for taking paxil. This is a much more complicated issue than you put it. In times past, when someone was going through something in their life whatever problems might have arose, I would share the good news of Jesus. And I mean to say it's very good news! Quite honestly, a relationship and following Him has brought the most fulfillment and help to my life during times of crisis and not. But right now my mind is I believe messed up because it is depressed and I believe because paxil changed my brain chemistry and when I took it away, my brain didn't just go back to "normal" What happened instead, is I am stuck with what I call a chemical depression. Boy wouldn't I love to have God take it away and be fine without medication. I have prayed and prayed. For whatever reasons, He has chosen not to miraculously fix or cure me. I don't blame Him. He would never be at fault and it would never do me one ounce of any good to hold it against Him. So what would you suggest I do? Stay in this miserable condition forever? I don't think so. What do I tell my friends and anyone I know who might be going through a hard time? Do I push drugs? Heck no, I tell them right away about my history with paxil and what it's done to me. But in a lot of cases, once you've taken these meds, you'll have to keep taking something in order to feel "normal". At least that's how I see it in my case. I wish it weren't so. I tried for a year or better to treat it naturally and prayed and prayed about it and tried to draw close to the Lord and enjoy the presence and purpose of that relationship that had always made such a difference in my life. I wasn't getting any better and actually worse. I would have loved to come down with something that would have taken my life like cancer or some other serious illness just for relief. What kind of life is that? I know where I'm going and I'm not afraid to go. I know Who's hand I'll be in. I know I would suffer no more.
> >
> > Please don't oversimplify this whole med thing. I think most people would say they're way overused, and if anything else could help do that first. But for many if this saves a life (suicide), then by all means take something if it's going to help. Please be carefull about interpreting the Bible to mean that we are going to hell if we take these meds.
> >
> > The God I see and believe in, knows the heart and would not condemn me, now way no how for where I'm at.
> >
> > Laney
>
> Laney,
> You wrote,[...I appreciate you wanting to help people...I underdtand...I don't believe.. for taking...].
> This discussion is concerning what the bible that a member here uses does or not teach as others here have posted. I have cited some verses that show that that bible does indicate that there is life after death.
> A discussion concerning as to what that bible teaches in relation to (redacted by respondent) has many other verses that are part of one making their own decision as to what that bible teaches concerning such.
> My understanding of that biblical topic could come from a Jewish perspective and Mr. Hsiung has posted a threat to expell from this forum if I was to post that in my experiance it has been revealed to me that I have a commandment from my God to me that( redacted by respondent) which is the foundation of Judaism. So I may not be able to post here the answers to the questions that you have posted to me.
> Lou
>
Laney,
You wrote,[...my mind is...changed my brain...stuck..what do you suggest that I do? stay in this.. condition..?...I wish it were not so... have to keep taking...what kind of life is that?...suffer no more...].
I would like to be of help here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Could you read;
Psalms 121:2-3
4:1
16:11
100:5
6:2
30:10
B Could you read;
Proverbs 3:5-6
21:21
C. Could you read;
Isaiah 61:61
1:18-19
D. Could you read;
Exodus 34:6
Hosea 10:12
E. Could you read;
Matthew 5:6
If you could read all of those, then I think that we could have a better discussion.
Lou

 

correction to verse-Lou's reply-

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 19:56:44

In reply to Lou's reply- Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on April 26, 2010, at 19:42:04

> > > Lou,
> > >
> > > I appreciate your wanting to help people see truth. I understand everything your talking about. First of all I don't believe the Lord condemns me for taking paxil. This is a much more complicated issue than you put it. In times past, when someone was going through something in their life whatever problems might have arose, I would share the good news of Jesus. And I mean to say it's very good news! Quite honestly, a relationship and following Him has brought the most fulfillment and help to my life during times of crisis and not. But right now my mind is I believe messed up because it is depressed and I believe because paxil changed my brain chemistry and when I took it away, my brain didn't just go back to "normal" What happened instead, is I am stuck with what I call a chemical depression. Boy wouldn't I love to have God take it away and be fine without medication. I have prayed and prayed. For whatever reasons, He has chosen not to miraculously fix or cure me. I don't blame Him. He would never be at fault and it would never do me one ounce of any good to hold it against Him. So what would you suggest I do? Stay in this miserable condition forever? I don't think so. What do I tell my friends and anyone I know who might be going through a hard time? Do I push drugs? Heck no, I tell them right away about my history with paxil and what it's done to me. But in a lot of cases, once you've taken these meds, you'll have to keep taking something in order to feel "normal". At least that's how I see it in my case. I wish it weren't so. I tried for a year or better to treat it naturally and prayed and prayed about it and tried to draw close to the Lord and enjoy the presence and purpose of that relationship that had always made such a difference in my life. I wasn't getting any better and actually worse. I would have loved to come down with something that would have taken my life like cancer or some other serious illness just for relief. What kind of life is that? I know where I'm going and I'm not afraid to go. I know Who's hand I'll be in. I know I would suffer no more.
> > >
> > > Please don't oversimplify this whole med thing. I think most people would say they're way overused, and if anything else could help do that first. But for many if this saves a life (suicide), then by all means take something if it's going to help. Please be carefull about interpreting the Bible to mean that we are going to hell if we take these meds.
> > >
> > > The God I see and believe in, knows the heart and would not condemn me, now way no how for where I'm at.
> > >
> > > Laney
> >
> > Laney,
> > You wrote,[...I appreciate you wanting to help people...I underdtand...I don't believe.. for taking...].
> > This discussion is concerning what the bible that a member here uses does or not teach as others here have posted. I have cited some verses that show that that bible does indicate that there is life after death.
> > A discussion concerning as to what that bible teaches in relation to (redacted by respondent) has many other verses that are part of one making their own decision as to what that bible teaches concerning such.
> > My understanding of that biblical topic could come from a Jewish perspective and Mr. Hsiung has posted a threat to expell from this forum if I was to post that in my experiance it has been revealed to me that I have a commandment from my God to me that( redacted by respondent) which is the foundation of Judaism. So I may not be able to post here the answers to the questions that you have posted to me.
> > Lou
> >
> Laney,
> You wrote,[...my mind is...changed my brain...stuck..what do you suggest that I do? stay in this.. condition..?...I wish it were not so... have to keep taking...what kind of life is that?...suffer no more...].
> I would like to be of help here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Could you read;
> Psalms 121:2-3
> 4:1
> 16:11
> 100:5
> 6:2
> 30:10
> B Could you read;
> Proverbs 3:5-6
> 21:21
> C. Could you read;
> Isaiah 61:61
> 1:18-19
> D. Could you read;
> Exodus 34:6
> Hosea 10:12
> E. Could you read;
> Matthew 5:6
> If you could read all of those, then I think that we could have a better discussion.
> Lou

correction:
Isaiah 61:61 is instead, Isaiah 61:1

 

Re: no one claims to have seen God rnny

Posted by rayww on April 28, 2010, at 1:09:13

In reply to no one claims to have seen God, posted by rnny on March 21, 2010, at 1:03:12

> No one claims to have seen God yet many worship him. How could that be?

I have not seen God, but He has testified to me that Joseph Smith did see Him. I know many like me who can say they "know" God exists, the same as Joseph Smith.

I don't visit this site any more, but tonight I read all the posts in this thread.

I still take Empower, and have for five years. I had a stroke that affected my spiritual side much the same as those of you who have a similar disconnect using drugs. Empower will not give you a buzz or a sudden burst of energy, but you immediately just feel like yourself, and with those like me, I feel a gradual healing of my brain. When I had my stroke I couldn't type, or think out a clear sentence, but that is coming better every year.

Although I still have a spiritual disconnect, and find it difficult to tune in and pray, I still know that Joseph Smith saw god and I love my church. I attend every Sunday and feel grateful for it all week in between. It is not just a Sunday thing for me. My family and most of my grandkids attend with me, and It is a beautiful experience. I would be surprised if anyone would feel unwelcome there, although I realize it goes both ways.

We have been telling the world since 1820 that Joseph Smith saw God. Hello....He really did. Religion is all about relationships, and relationships (in my opinion, and that I have and believe in) are tied to ordinances and covenants, and priesthood only found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

We believe in the whole Bible, including the revelation of John. One comment about "fire and brimstone": Since most of the Book of Revelation is written in symbolism, what makes you think fire and brimstone isn't symbolic too? Of course, on second thought, fire and brimstone is obviously a significant part of our universe. There seems to be plenty of it out there.

No one has all the answers, but I am very satisfied with the ones we have.

As far as the discussion on drugs and sorceries go, that will all work out in the end, but in my opinion, it would work out smoother with religion. Pure religion is faith, hope and charity.

 

Lou's request-theehnd rayww

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2010, at 6:30:12

In reply to Re: no one claims to have seen God rnny, posted by rayww on April 28, 2010, at 1:09:13

> > No one claims to have seen God yet many worship him. How could that be?
>
> I have not seen God, but He has testified to me that Joseph Smith did see Him. I know many like me who can say they "know" God exists, the same as Joseph Smith.
>
> I don't visit this site any more, but tonight I read all the posts in this thread.
>
> I still take Empower, and have for five years. I had a stroke that affected my spiritual side much the same as those of you who have a similar disconnect using drugs. Empower will not give you a buzz or a sudden burst of energy, but you immediately just feel like yourself, and with those like me, I feel a gradual healing of my brain. When I had my stroke I couldn't type, or think out a clear sentence, but that is coming better every year.
>
> Although I still have a spiritual disconnect, and find it difficult to tune in and pray, I still know that Joseph Smith saw god and I love my church. I attend every Sunday and feel grateful for it all week in between. It is not just a Sunday thing for me. My family and most of my grandkids attend with me, and It is a beautiful experience. I would be surprised if anyone would feel unwelcome there, although I realize it goes both ways.
>
> We have been telling the world since 1820 that Joseph Smith saw God. Hello....He really did. Religion is all about relationships, and relationships (in my opinion, and that I have and believe in) are tied to ordinances and covenants, and priesthood only found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
>
> We believe in the whole Bible, including the revelation of John. One comment about "fire and brimstone": Since most of the Book of Revelation is written in symbolism, what makes you think fire and brimstone isn't symbolic too? Of course, on second thought, fire and brimstone is obviously a significant part of our universe. There seems to be plenty of it out there.
>
> No one has all the answers, but I am very satisfied with the ones we have.
>
> As far as the discussion on drugs and sorceries go, that will all work out in the end, but in my opinion, it would work out smoother with religion. Pure religion is faith, hope and charity.

rayww,
You wrote,[...symbolism..fire and brimstone...As far as the discussion on drugs and sorceris go, that will work out in the end..]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Is the end;
1. the end of the world
2. the end of the discussion here in this thread
3. the end of an age
4. something else?
B. In sybolism;
1. Are you wanting to mean that fire and brimstone are symbols? If so, what could those symbols represent, if you know?
C. other questions if the above are answerd
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request-theehnd Lou Pilder

Posted by rayww on April 28, 2010, at 12:28:18

In reply to Lou's request-theehnd rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on April 28, 2010, at 6:30:12

> > > No one claims to have seen God yet many worship him. How could that be?
> >
> > I have not seen God, but He has testified to me that Joseph Smith did see Him. I know many like me who can say they "know" God exists, the same as Joseph Smith.
> >
> > I don't visit this site any more, but tonight I read all the posts in this thread.
> >
> > I still take Empower, and have for five years. I had a stroke that affected my spiritual side much the same as those of you who have a similar disconnect using drugs. Empower will not give you a buzz or a sudden burst of energy, but you immediately just feel like yourself, and with those like me, I feel a gradual healing of my brain. When I had my stroke I couldn't type, or think out a clear sentence, but that is coming better every year.
> >
> > Although I still have a spiritual disconnect, and find it difficult to tune in and pray, I still know that Joseph Smith saw god and I love my church. I attend every Sunday and feel grateful for it all week in between. It is not just a Sunday thing for me. My family and most of my grandkids attend with me, and It is a beautiful experience. I would be surprised if anyone would feel unwelcome there, although I realize it goes both ways.
> >
> > We have been telling the world since 1820 that Joseph Smith saw God. Hello....He really did. Religion is all about relationships, and relationships (in my opinion, and that I have and believe in) are tied to ordinances and covenants, and priesthood only found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
> >
> > We believe in the whole Bible, including the revelation of John. One comment about "fire and brimstone": Since most of the Book of Revelation is written in symbolism, what makes you think fire and brimstone isn't symbolic too? Of course, on second thought, fire and brimstone is obviously a significant part of our universe. There seems to be plenty of it out there.
> >
> > No one has all the answers, but I am very satisfied with the ones we have.
> >
> > As far as the discussion on drugs and sorceries go, that will all work out in the end, but in my opinion, it would work out smoother with religion. Pure religion is faith, hope and charity.
>
> rayww,
> You wrote,[...symbolism..fire and brimstone...As far as the discussion on drugs and sorceris go, that will work out in the end..]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Is the end;
> 1. the end of the world
> 2. the end of the discussion here in this thread
> 3. the end of an age
> 4. something else?
> B. In sybolism;
> 1. Are you wanting to mean that fire and brimstone are symbols? If so, what could those symbols represent, if you know?
> C. other questions if the above are answerd
> Lou

In the end refers to end of life.

The prophets chose very graphic words to describe the pain we will (in the end) feel because of unrepented sin, and guilt. In my opinion this would happen after we die, and when we see exactly how things are. I chose a few quotes to show how symbols are used in other places in scripture.

Racked means tortured. 5 Anciently a rack was a framework on which the victim was laid with each ankle and wrist tied to a spindle which could then be turned to cause unbearable pain.

A harrow is a frame with spikes through it. When pulled across the ground, it rips and tears into the soil. The scriptures frequently speak of souls and minds being harrowed up with guilt. 6

Torment means to twist, a means of torture so painful that even the innocent would confess. 7

The prophets speak of the gall of bitterness 8 and often compare the pain of guilt to fire and brimstone. Brimstone is another name for sulfur.

If you would like to view the article that explains this more fully, and which I quoted from, here it is, unedited:

Boyd K. Packer, The Touch of the Masters Hand, Liahona, Jul 2001, 2528

We all make mistakes. It is then in our nature to feel guilt and humiliation and suffering, which we alone cannot cure. That is when the healing power of the Atonement will help.

This matter of sustaining the officers is a great protection to the Church. The Lord commanded that it shall not be given to any one to go forth to preach my gospel, or to build up my church, except he be ordained by some one who has authority, and it is known to the church that he has authority and has been [duly] ordained by the heads of the church. 1 In this way members of the Church in every organization all over the world know who the true messengers are.

It is my purpose to ease the pain of those who suffer from the very unpleasant feeling of guilt. I feel like the doctor who begins his treatment by saying, Now, this may hurt a little.

Every one of us has at least tasted the pain of conscience which follows our mistakes.

John said that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 2 Then he said it more strongly, If we say that we have not sinned, we make [the Lord] a liar, and his word is not in us. 3

All of us sometime, and some of us much of the time, suffer remorse of conscience from things we did wrong or things left undone. That feeling of guilt is to the spirit what pain is to the physical body.

But guilt can be harder to bear than physical pain. Physical pain is natures warning system that signals something needs to be changed or cleansed or treated, perhaps even removed by surgery. Guilt, the pain of our conscience, cannot be healed the same way.

If you are burdened with depressing feelings of guilt or disappointment, of failure or shame, there is a cure. My intent is not to hurt your tender feelings but to help you and help those you love. The prophets teach how painful guilt can be. As I read what they have said, be prepared for very strong words. Even so, I will not read the strongest things they have said.

The prophet Alma, describing his feelings of guilt, said, I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins. 4

The prophets chose very graphic words.

Racked means tortured. 5 Anciently a rack was a framework on which the victim was laid with each ankle and wrist tied to a spindle which could then be turned to cause unbearable pain.

A harrow is a frame with spikes through it. When pulled across the ground, it rips and tears into the soil. The scriptures frequently speak of souls and minds being harrowed up with guilt. 6

Torment means to twist, a means of torture so painful that even the innocent would confess. 7

The prophets speak of the gall of bitterness 8 and often compare the pain of guilt to fire and brimstone. Brimstone is another name for sulfur.

King Benjamin said that those who are evil will be consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment. 9

The Prophet Joseph Smith said: A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. The torment of disappointment in the mind of man [or woman] is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. 10

That lake of fire and brimstone, ever burning but never consumed, is the description in the scriptures for hell. 11

Suppose there was no cure, no way to ease spiritual pain or to erase the agony of guilt. Suppose each mistake, each sin, was added to the others with the racking, the harrowing up, the torment going on forever. Too many of us needlessly carry burdens of guilt and shame.

The scriptures teach that there must needs be opposition in all things. If not, righteousness could not be brought to pass, 12 neither happiness, nor joy, neither redemption.

The third article of faith teaches, We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. [A of F 1:3] The Atonement offers redemption from spiritual death and from suffering caused by sin.

For some reason, we think the Atonement of Christ applies only at the end of mortal life to redemption from the Fall, from spiritual death. It is much more than that. It is an ever-present power to call upon in everyday life. When we are racked or harrowed up or tormented by guilt or burdened with grief, He can heal us. While we do not fully understand how the Atonement of Christ was made, we can experience the peace of God, which passeth all understanding. 13

The gospel plan is the great plan of happiness. 14 It is contrary to the nature of God and contrary to the very nature of man to find happiness in sin. Wickedness never was happiness. 15

We know that some anxiety and depression is caused by physical disorders, but much (perhaps most) of it is not pain of the body but of the spirit. Spiritual pain resulting from guilt can be replaced with peace of mind.

In contrast to the hard words condemning sin, listen to the calming, healing words of mercy, which balance the harsher words of justice.

Alma said: My soul hath been redeemed from the gall of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. I was in the darkest abyss; but now I behold the marvelous light of God. My soul was racked with eternal torment; but my soul is pained no more. 16

I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell.

And as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.

Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! 17

We all make mistakes. Sometimes we harm ourselves and seriously injure others in ways that we alone cannot repair. We break things that we alone cannot fix. It is then in our nature to feel guilt and humiliation and suffering, which we alone cannot cure. That is when the healing power of the Atonement will help.

The Lord said, Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent. 18

If Christ had not made His Atonement, the penalties for mistakes would be added one on the other. Life would be hopeless. But He willingly sacrificed in order that we may be redeemed. And He said, Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. 19

Ezekiel said: If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him. 20

Think of that, not even mentioned!

We can even retain a remission of [our] sins. 21 Baptism by immersion is for the remission of our sins. That covenant can be renewed by partaking of the sacrament each week. 22

The Atonement has practical, personal, everyday value; apply it in your life. It can be activated with so simple a beginning as prayer. You will not thereafter be free from trouble and mistakes but can erase the guilt through repentance and be at peace.

I quoted the third article of faith. It has two parts: We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, [then the conditions] by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Justice requires that there be a punishment. 23 Guilt is not erased without pain. There are laws to obey and ordinances to receive, and there are penalties to pay.

Physical pain requires treatment and a change in lifestyle.

So it is with spiritual pain. There must be repentance and discipline, most of which is self-discipline. But to restore our innocence after serious transgressions, there must be confession to our bishop, who is the appointed judge.

The Lord promised, A new heart will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you. 24 That spiritual heart surgery, like in the body, may cause you pain and require a change in habits and conduct. But in both cases, recovery brings renewed life and peace of mind.

When the heavens were opened and the Father and the Son stood before Joseph Smith, the Father spoke seven words: This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! 25 Revelation followed revelation, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 26 was organized. He Himself declared it to be the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth. 27

Peter, James, and John restored the higher priesthood, and John the Baptist the Aaronic Priesthood. The fulness of the gospel was revealed.

Following the revelations which came and yet come to His Church, all that has been printed or preached or sung or built or taught or broadcast has been to the end that men and women and children can know the redeeming influence of the Atonement of Christ in their everyday lives and be at peace.

He said, Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. 28

As one who stands among His Apostles, I testify of Him and of the ever-present power of His Atonement.

From the lofty words of justice and mercy and of warning and hope in the verses of scripture, I turn to the very same message in verses of a simple poem:

Twas battered and scarred, and the auctioneer
Thought it scarcely worth his while
To waste much time on the old violin,
But held it up with a smile:
What am I bidden, good folks, he cried,
Wholl start the bidding for me?
A dollar, a dollar; then, Two! Only two?
Two dollars, and wholl make it three?
Three dollars, once; three dollars, twice;
Going for three But no,
From the room, far back, a gray-haired man
Came forward and picked up the bow;
Then, wiping the dust from the old violin,
And tightening the loose strings,
He played a melody pure and sweet
As a caroling angel sings.
The music ceased, and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low,
Said, What am I bid for the old violin?
And he held it up with the bow.
A thousand dollars, and wholl make it two?
Two thousand! And wholl make it three?
Three thousand, once, three thousand, twice,
And going, and gone! said he.
The people cheered, but some of them cried,
We do not quite understand
What changed its worth. Swift came the reply:
The touch of a masters hand.
And many a man with life out of tune,
And battered and scarred with sin,
Is auctioned cheap to the thoughtless crowd,
Much like the old violin.
A mess of pottage, a glass of wine,
A gameand he travels on.
Hes going once, and going twice,
Hes going and almost gone.
But the Master comes, and the foolish crowd
Never can quite understand
The worth of a soul and the change thats wrought
By the touch of the Masters hand. 29
In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Notes

1. D&C 42:11.

2. 1 Jn. 1:8.

3. 1 Jn. 1:10.

4. Alma 36:12; emphasis added.

5. See Mosiah 27:29; Alma 36:12, 1617; Morm. 9:3.

6. See 2 Ne. 9:47; Alma 14:6; Alma 15:3; Alma 36:12, 17, 19; Alma 39:7.

7. See Mosiah 2:39; Mosiah 3:25; Mosiah 5:5; Moro. 8:21.

8. See Alma 41:11; Acts 8:23; Mosiah 27:29; Alma 36:18; Morm. 8:31; Moro. 8:14.

9. Mosiah 3:25.

10. Deseret News, 8 July 1857, 138.

11. See Rev. 20:10; Rev. 21:8; 2 Ne. 9:16, 19, 26; 2 Ne. 28:23; Jacob 3:11; Jacob 6:10; Mosiah 3:27; Alma 12:17; Alma 14:14; D&C 63:17; D&C 76:36.

12. 2 Ne. 2:11.

13. Philip. 4:7.

14. Alma 42:8.

15. Alma 41:10; see also Alma 41:11.

16. Mosiah 27:29.

17. Alma 36:13, 1720.

18. D&C 19:16.

19. D&C 58:42; see also Heb. 8:12; Heb. 10:17.

20. Ezek. 33:1516.

21. Mosiah 4:12; see also 2 Ne. 25:26; 2 Ne. 31:17; Mosiah 3:13; Mosiah 4:11; Mosiah 15:11; Alma 4:14; Alma 7:6; Alma 12:34; Alma 13:16; Hel. 14:13; 3 Ne. 12:2; 3 Ne. 30:2; Moro. 8:25; Moro. 10:33.

22. See D&C 27:2.

23. See Alma 42:1622.

24. Ezek. 36:26.

25. JSH 1:17.

26. See D&C 115:4.

27. D&C 1:30.

28. John 14:27.

29. Myra Brooks Welch, The Touch of the Masters Hand, The Gospel Messenger, Brethren Press, 26 Feb. 1921.

 

Lou's request-ahtwun

Posted by Lou Pilder on April 29, 2010, at 19:53:31

In reply to Re: Lou's request-theehnd Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on April 28, 2010, at 12:28:18

rayww,
You wrote,[....I still have spiritual disconnect...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could post answewrs to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
A.What happens in the disconnected state that is different from a connected state?
B. Do you know what could reconnect one to a spiritual connected state anf if so, what?
C. othere questions if the above are answerd.
Lou

 

Re: Lou's request-ahtwun

Posted by SLS on April 30, 2010, at 6:57:25

In reply to Lou's request-ahtwun, posted by Lou Pilder on April 29, 2010, at 19:53:31

I find that severe depression can produce a spiritual disconnect. My spirituality just evaporates. I am no less a believer in God during these times, but I just don't "feel" Him, and my thoughts are not towards Him.


- Scott

 

Re: Lou's request-ahtwun

Posted by rayww on April 30, 2010, at 23:39:49

In reply to Lou's request-ahtwun, posted by Lou Pilder on April 29, 2010, at 19:53:31

> rayww,
> You wrote,[....I still have spiritual disconnect...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. If you could post answewrs to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
> A.What happens in the disconnected state that is different from a connected state?
> B. Do you know what could reconnect one to a spiritual connected state anf if so, what?
> C. othere questions if the above are answerd.
> Lou
>

A stroke, like drugs, can cause brain damage. With a stroke you can learn to compensate by skipping over the part that is damaged, and strengthening other parts of the brain. For me to focus on anything takes a very conscious effort, and it makes me tired in doing it. Talking to people exhausts me too because I have to work so hard at trying to be interested. I have to work hard to care, to love, to pray, because I'm training another part of my brain to do what came naturally before the stroke. It takes effort to want to be involved in things, and to care. I could go on but I won't bore you further.

Spiritually, I rely more on my belief than I do on communication through prayer. Sometimes my prayer goes more like: Heavenly Father, I'm thankful, and please bless the world, In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Other times it is shorter, but I still take the time to tune in when I kneel, and cast a feeling line out to God of love before I speak to Him. It takes concentrated effort, and if I hadn't spent a lifetime before, developing a close relationship with God, so that I absolutely knew what I believed was true, I don't know where I'd be now. I keep the commandments because I love God and believe it is in my best interest to do so.

So, to answer your questions How do I know I have a spiritual disconnect? God hasn't moved away from me, but my brain isn't receiving (transmitting?) like it used to. My prayers have changed because I can't think of the words because I don't have the thoughts. And, you asked me what could reconnect my spiritual wires? Obedience to God's laws and commandments. And, even if it is hard, pray anyway.

Thanks for asking. I did some searching to see if there was answers somewhere and I found a couple of articles worth saving. The following is one of them. Enjoy. I'm sure it has more applications than stroke.

4 Ways to Speed Recovery From a Stroke

1. Be Diligent About Therapy
Rehab can include speech therapy, mobility therapy, physical strengthening, psychological counseling and electrical stimulation. It's easy to become frustrated with your initial lack of independence and the exhausting effort you have to put into rehab, but it's important to stick with it. You will maximize your chances for recovery if you remain motivated to work hard during therapy and practice what you're learning on a daily basis. You're retraining your brain, and it takes repetition and perseverance, just like any form of exercise. Studies suggest that rehab attitude may significantly impact the speed and degree of your recovery.

2. Focus on Optimism
In the same way you must face rehabilitation with a positive attitude, it's important to maintain your optimism throughout your stroke recovery. Researchers are consistently finding that outlook plays a role in physical and mental health, and stroke recovery is no different. Studies at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston found that people who faced their rehabilitation as a challenge rather than a hopeless endeavor fared better during the healing process.

Each day when you get out of bed, make it your goal to be a happy person. Tell yourself, "I may not have chosen the path of a stroke survivor, but I can choose to have a positive attitude every day." Spend time with loved ones, enjoy the outdoors or do some deep breathing exercises when your negativity begins to overcome you. Your positive attitude will not only make your recovery easier, but it will make the process easier for your caregivers too.

3. Call on Your Spirituality
A growing body of research indicates the positive roles that religion and spirituality play in overall health and well-being. If you're recovering from a stroke, drawing on your spiritual beliefs can help you come to terms with your struggles, adjust to your impairments and infuse new meaning into your life. Though religion is rarely introduced in rehab settings, you can personally turn to prayer, meditation and religious literature to help you cope with what can be a long, arduous recovery. In addition, consider asking friends and religious leaders to visit you regularly, pray with you and spend time discussing how spirituality can benefit the total healing process.

4. Rely on Your Support Network
Leaning on family and friends after your stroke can speed your rehabilitation. Don't allow yourself to disconnect from others because you're frustrated with your disability or afraid of socializing. Instead, allow friends and family to spend time with you at home, take you on outings and assist you with the tasks that you're relearning. Remember, though, there is a difference between receiving support and becoming codependent. Make sure that your loved ones encourage you to do things on your own, only stepping in when they need to. One of the most important ways they can help is to be available to listen and provide you with company as you learn to adapt to your post-stroke life.

 

Re: Lou's request

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 28, 2010, at 18:10:54

In reply to Re: Lou's request-nohoudder, posted by Buckeye Fan on April 2, 2010, at 11:50:07

> The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.

He was referring to:

> my Maker ... the God that [I give] service and worship to ... the God that the Christian Bible refers to

so I considered it analogous to:

> People of my faith have one God and no others before him.

which I consider OK:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7889.html

Bob

 

Some Disconcerting Verses For Lou

Posted by Brainbeard on June 24, 2010, at 16:06:26

In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on May 28, 2010, at 18:10:54

Proverbs 31,6-7:

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

Deut. 14,26:

"And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household".

These verses speak for the use of an intoxicating substance to treat mental illness or to enhance holy enjoyment, respectively.

Cheers.

 

Lou's response-ihnsypttumohc Brainbeard

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 24, 2010, at 19:25:55

In reply to Some Disconcerting Verses For Lou, posted by Brainbeard on June 24, 2010, at 16:06:26

> Proverbs 31,6-7:
>
> "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."
>
> Deut. 14,26:
>
> "And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household".
>
> These verses speak for the use of an intoxicating substance to treat mental illness or to enhance holy enjoyment, respectively.
>
> Cheers.

Bb,
You wrote,[...some disconcerting...intoxicating substance to treat...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the folowing, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What factors, if any, did you use to determine that the verses that you cited could be disconcerting to me?
B. Are you aware of the original language meanings used in the verses that they were translated from?
C. redacted by respondent
Lou

 

A, B, C, D

Posted by Brainbeard on June 25, 2010, at 7:54:28

In reply to Lou's response-ihnsypttumohc Brainbeard, posted by Lou Pilder on June 24, 2010, at 19:25:55

> Bb,
> You wrote,[...some disconcerting...intoxicating substance to treat...]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the folowing, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. What factors, if any, did you use to determine that the verses that you cited could be disconcerting to me?
> B. Are you aware of the original language meanings used in the verses that they were translated from?
> C. redacted by respondent
> Lou

A. These verses do not support a narrow interpretation of the biblical rejection of the use of psychotropics. Such an interpretation is modernistic and in accordance with Western Enlightenment logical thinking, but not with the Old Eastern way of thinking, which has no problem with approaching the truth by conflicting statements that can not logically be reconciled. The verses cited clearly show that there is a place and a legitimate use for intoxicating or psychotropic substances, either as a treatment for mental illness or as a way of delighting oneself before the face of the Lord. Especially the Provers verses are important, since they represent the Jewish Wisdom tradition, which is very pragmatic and down-to-earth in nature. Everyday life is too cross-grained to be caught in narrow dogmatic assumptions, and the Bible, since it is a Living Book, is therefore naturally full of contradictions. Trying to destillate modernistic logical truths from such a Living Source is a dangerous undertaking and often results in a twisting of the dynamic truth, which has different consequences in differing dimensions of reality.

B. I surely am. I know my Hebrew and my Greek. Proverbs 31:6-7: the Hebrew 'shekar' is used here, which means, according to Gesenius' lexicon, 'strong drink, intoxicating liquor'. Fairly obvious. The same word is used in Deuteronomy. Whatever would be argued about the fermentated or non-fermentated nature of 'yayin', for 'shekar' it cannot be reasonably argued that it would be non-alcoholic.

C. ?

D. You could try and accept the way God has given his Word to us: as mostly a pre-modern, Old Eastern collection of books, with a totally different approach to truth than our modern Western approach. You seem to see it as a holy mission to judge people according to your interpretations of isolated biblical verses. Life, and also the christian life, not to mention eternal life, is much more complex than you make it out to be.

 

Re: please be civil Brainbeard

Posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2010, at 8:57:28

In reply to A, B, C, D, posted by Brainbeard on June 25, 2010, at 7:54:28

> You seem to see it as a holy mission to judge people

Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.

But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.

It's up to you to decide whom you interact with. Sometimes interacting with others may be frustrating, staying civil may be a challenge, and new skills may be required. If you're open to developing new skills (which I realize may not be why you came in the first place), that's another way in which you can be supported by other posters.

More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself, including a link to a post by Dinah on I-statements that I highly recommend, are in the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce

Lou, I'm also sorry if you felt hurt.

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.

Thanks,

Bob

 

Lou's response- Dr. Bob

Posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2010, at 7:13:07

In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on May 28, 2010, at 18:10:54

> > The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.
>
> He was referring to:
>
> > my Maker ... the God that [I give] service and worship to ... the God that the Christian Bible refers to
>
> so I considered it analogous to:
>
> > People of my faith have one God and no others before him.
>
> which I consider OK:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7889.html
>
> Bob

Mr. Hsiung,
You are allowing an anti-Semitic statement to be posted here as being {OK} by you. But {OK} could not automatically mean that the statement is supportive, for {OK} could mean that it is OK to post it here by you.
For a psychiatrist to draft his rules for a mental-health forum so that it is OK to post an antisemitic statement, could be dangerous to the members here that have another way in their faith to have forgivness and Eternal Life other that having Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This is because of the mission of the forum being for support and I find it counter-productive to civic harmony for a antisemitic statement to be considerd OK by you to post here in the drafting of your rules that state not to post anything that could lead someone to feel put down/accused.
Be advised that when one antisemitic statement is considerd OK by the rule-drafter, that other statements of the same nature could follow also as being OK by your thinking, for you write here that you do what in your thinking will be good for the community as a whole. Good for the community as a whole? Do you know who also said that? Do you realize that more than a million Jewish children were murderd by antisemites who also held themselves out to be the "master race" and also had in their community the state-sponsored hate that xxxx those that made Jesus their Lord and Savior could have God's forgivness and receive Eternal Life? And that also meant that the murders of the Jewish children (redacted by respondent) while the murderd Jewish children did not, for they by their faith believe that they could have forgivness and Eternal Life in another way other than to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. And there are also the Islamic people and the Hindu people and all the other people that have ever lived that have in their faith that they can have forgivness and Eternal Life by a different means other that making Jesus their Lord and Savior.
You say that one match could cause a forest fire. This Jew will attempt to stamp out any fire before it becomes an inferno to your allowing the fire and point out all of the statements that could cause harm to Jews and others even though I am reminded of my powerlessnerss here because you could leave my requests outstanding.
Mr Hsiung and your deputies and your members here that could follow your drafting of your rules to post antisemitic statements. These statemnts could cause me great emotiomnal harm as being OK by you and I could become a victim of antisemitic violence. But where I have been that allowed the defamation of Jews in the past have had their (redacted by respondent) come to naught, for wherever I go, the God of Israel is with me. And that God has revealed to me that goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life and that I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Here is a link to a post that has other links to posts that concern this ongoing situation where my request to you is outstanding to post in this thread as to if you do or do not consider the statement in question to be supportive or not
Lou PIlder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955108.html

 

Re: please be civil Lou Pilder

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 22, 2010, at 17:51:45

In reply to Lou's response- Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on July 22, 2010, at 7:13:07

> an anti-Semitic statement

Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused.

But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.

More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce

Buckeye Fan, I'm also sorry if you felt hurt.

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.

Thanks,

Bob

 

Lou's reply-asem Dr. Bob

Posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2010, at 14:09:44

In reply to Re: please be civil Lou Pilder, posted by Dr. Bob on July 22, 2010, at 17:51:45

Mr. Hsiung,
In regards to what you posted to me that is linked here as the previous post, I am unsure as to what you re wanting to mean by what you wrote concering what I posted here.
If you could anaswer the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to what you post to me here.
A. Have I posted a response to you here already concerning what you have posted to me, for I remember asking if what you wanted to mean by what you posted to me was that the statement in question is or is not factual? If you consider the statement to be in accordance with the definition of such, then what could be your rationale for writing to me waht you wrote? For if the statement in question does meet the generally accepted criteria, and the criteria that you have posted here that you use to make that determination, for determining if the statement is in fact what it is, then is it not what it is? You see, the statement by me was about what you are allowing to be posted here and that your TOS states that the forum is for support and I have been asking you to post in the thread in question as to if you consider the statement in question that I wrote as being in the catagory in question to be supportive or not because you state that support takes precedence and one match could cause a forest fire.
B. If so, where has it been reposted, if it was?
C. If I have already posted a response to you, an it has not been redirected, then could you post a rationale here as to why it is not here in this thread?
D. If I am incorrect about a previous post to you here, here are some concerns of mine in the posts that I am requesting that you look at that are in an assembly of posts concerning this ongoing situation that others could email if they like for the other posts in that assembly of posts.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/821364.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955108.html

 

Lou is fascinating (nm)

Posted by Brainbeard on August 23, 2010, at 7:55:12

In reply to Lou's reply-asem Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2010, at 14:09:44

 

Lou's response-ahrowz (i) Brainbeard

Posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2010, at 12:59:28

In reply to Lou is fascinating (nm), posted by Brainbeard on August 23, 2010, at 7:55:12

Bb,
You wrote,[...Lou is fscinating...]
Now the generally accepted meanings of {fascinating} is that there is an arrousal of great interest. Could you list what there is that you see that is of great interest to you? If so, then I could have the opportunity to post more concerning that interest of yours.
Lou


 

I see something that is of great interest to me!

Posted by Brainbeard on August 23, 2010, at 15:14:33

In reply to Lou's response-ahrowz (i) Brainbeard, posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2010, at 12:59:28

> Bb,
> You wrote,[...Lou is fscinating...]
> Now the generally accepted meanings of {fascinating} is that there is an arrousal of great interest. Could you list what there is that you see that is of great interest to you? If so, then I could have the opportunity to post more concerning that interest of yours.
> Lou

Well, I find it fascinating that you are able to pose questions so multilayered (questions within questions within questions within questions etc.) and intricate that it's nigh impossible to even understand the question anymore.

It's also fascinating that there are mainly two persons on this board who talk in deadpan standard formula's, which are yourself and the founder. I assume you both have good reasons for this.

 

Lou's reply-dhdpn Brainbeard

Posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2010, at 16:26:53

In reply to I see something that is of great interest to me!, posted by Brainbeard on August 23, 2010, at 15:14:33

> > Bb,
> > You wrote,[...Lou is fscinating...]
> > Now the generally accepted meanings of {fascinating} is that there is an arrousal of great interest. Could you list what there is that you see that is of great interest to you? If so, then I could have the opportunity to post more concerning that interest of yours.
> > Lou
>
Bb,
You wrote,[...{nigh} impossible...good reason..]
Being {nigh} impossble is generally accepted as being {close} to inpossible, but thearfore it could be possible.
I do try to ask questions in a manner to rule out ambiguity. In order for me to do that, I structure the question like you see, as in layers within themselves in order to bring out the specific question without ambiguity. I try to make the question well-defined. I agree that some people could need more tome to see the question all by itself by studying the layers, but my questions to Mr. Hsiung are from one math person to another and I think that my structuring the questions in what I think is a well-defined format is the type of structure that I think he could be better able to identify the question that I am asking him.
If anyone can not see the question and wants to have it pointed out by me, they could ask me for clarification and I would be glad to accomodate their request.
Do you have any requests for me to clarify anything that you may not see as a question? If so, could you list any?
Lou

> Well, I find it fascinating that you are able to pose questions so multilayered (questions within questions within questions within questions etc.) and intricate that it's nigh impossible to even understand the question anymore.
>
> It's also fascinating that there are mainly two persons on this board who talk in deadpan standard formula's, which are yourself and the founder. I assume you both have good reasons for this.
>
> Bb,
My reply is in this post out of my usual order of posting after the other poser's post, so look up and my reply is in front of yourpost. but, what is a xxxxxxx yyyyyyyy formula?
Lou
>
>

 

Re: Lou's reply-dhdpn

Posted by Brainbeard on August 24, 2010, at 8:52:07

In reply to Lou's reply-dhdpn Brainbeard, posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2010, at 16:26:53

> Do you have any requests for me to clarify anything that you may not see as a question? If so, could you list any?
> Lou
>

Lou, thanks for elucidating. Your being a math person clears things up. I don't have any specific requests at the moment.

 

Lou's reminder-urratinale

Posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2011, at 11:01:21

In reply to Lou's reply-asem Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 22, 2010, at 14:09:44

> Mr. Hsiung,
> In regards to what you posted to me that is linked here as the previous post, I am unsure as to what you re wanting to mean by what you wrote concering what I posted here.
> If you could anaswer the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to what you post to me here.
> A. Have I posted a response to you here already concerning what you have posted to me, for I remember asking if what you wanted to mean by what you posted to me was that the statement in question is or is not factual? If you consider the statement to be in accordance with the definition of such, then what could be your rationale for writing to me waht you wrote? For if the statement in question does meet the generally accepted criteria, and the criteria that you have posted here that you use to make that determination, for determining if the statement is in fact what it is, then is it not what it is? You see, the statement by me was about what you are allowing to be posted here and that your TOS states that the forum is for support and I have been asking you to post in the thread in question as to if you consider the statement in question that I wrote as being in the catagory in question to be supportive or not because you state that support takes precedence and one match could cause a forest fire.
> B. If so, where has it been reposted, if it was?
> C. If I have already posted a response to you, an it has not been redirected, then could you post a rationale here as to why it is not here in this thread?
> D. If I am incorrect about a previous post to you here, here are some concerns of mine in the posts that I am requesting that you look at that are in an assembly of posts concerning this ongoing situation that others could email if they like for the other posts in that assembly of posts.
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/821364.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955108.html

Mr. Hsiung,
In accordance with your reminder policy here, there are oustanding concerns in part {A, but not limited to that part,} in the post here.
Lou Pilder

 

Lou's reminder to Mr Hsiung-

Posted by Lou Pilder on June 10, 2013, at 6:59:13

In reply to Lou's reminder-urratinale, posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2011, at 11:01:21

> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > In regards to what you posted to me that is linked here as the previous post, I am unsure as to what you re wanting to mean by what you wrote concering what I posted here.
> > If you could anaswer the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond to what you post to me here.
> > A. Have I posted a response to you here already concerning what you have posted to me, for I remember asking if what you wanted to mean by what you posted to me was that the statement in question is or is not factual? If you consider the statement to be in accordance with the definition of such, then what could be your rationale for writing to me waht you wrote? For if the statement in question does meet the generally accepted criteria, and the criteria that you have posted here that you use to make that determination, for determining if the statement is in fact what it is, then is it not what it is? You see, the statement by me was about what you are allowing to be posted here and that your TOS states that the forum is for support and I have been asking you to post in the thread in question as to if you consider the statement in question that I wrote as being in the catagory in question to be supportive or not because you state that support takes precedence and one match could cause a forest fire.
> > B. If so, where has it been reposted, if it was?
> > C. If I have already posted a response to you, an it has not been redirected, then could you post a rationale here as to why it is not here in this thread?
> > D. If I am incorrect about a previous post to you here, here are some concerns of mine in the posts that I am requesting that you look at that are in an assembly of posts concerning this ongoing situation that others could email if they like for the other posts in that assembly of posts.
> > Lou Pilder
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080313/msgs/821364.html
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20100714/msgs/955108.html
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> In accordance with your reminder policy here, there are oustanding concerns in part {A, but not limited to that part,} in the post here.
> Lou Pilder

Mr Hsiung,
In regards to your policy to keep reminding you, the above.
Lou Pilder

 

Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion

Posted by Dr. Bob on September 14, 2013, at 0:45:28

In reply to Lou's reply-wygud Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2013, at 6:28:22

> Now I do not think that Jews or Islamic people or Hindus or atheists or agnostics or Wiccans or Buddists or pantheists or Taoists or Deists or those that have faiths that are not Christiandom based that accept the claim in question could feel accepted here by you saying that the statement in question is acceptable. For the statement excludes all those that do not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior from forgiveness and Eternal Life.

You know, I think you're right. I was seeing:

> The ONLY reason given in God's Word that has or will ever cause someone to miss out on God's forgivness and Eternal life....is to reject the gift of His Son Jesus as Lord and Savior.

as analogous to:

> People of my faith have one God and no others before him.

which I consider OK, but it might actually be more analogous to:

> My faith says people should have one God and no others before him.

which I don't consider OK.

Thanks for persisting until I saw my error.

Bob


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