Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1113573

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Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2021, at 10:01:42

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on March 7, 2021, at 9:27:25

Yeah, that is what I meant, thanks. Too bad it doesnt work that way!

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2021, at 21:17:15

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 7, 2021, at 10:01:42

They say one thing and then another thing about whether a person being vaccinated prevents them acting as a vector (transmissing the virus without themselves getting sick).

Initially, the thought seemed to be that vaccination would prevent someone being a vector. They thought that their own personal viral load would not get high enough to be transmitted to others.

Now, they aren't so sure.

They were a bit worried about the ones that prevent serious sickness -- but weren't so affective against mild sickness. They worried that people with only mild sickness might be vectors, still, with their sneezing and nasal secretions or whatever.

The politicians and the like don't seem to know what's up. It matters a lot whether vaccination prevents a person from being sick or whether vaccination prevents a person from being a vector when it comes to who you should vaccinate when and most importantly *why*.

For example, if you want the front line workers to not act as vectors (transmitting the virus between people) and there isn't evidence that the vaccination prevents them being vectors... It doesn't make much sense to start with vacccinating them.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2021, at 21:19:28

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2021, at 21:17:15

And if vaccinations prevent an individual from getting sick (most likely) but do not prevent a person from transmitting the virus from one sick person to infect another without themselves getting sick...

Then it makes no sense why our minister of covid response has started talking about


...

sanctions.

Shall we say. To be imposed on people who are not going to give consent for vaccine.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2021, at 6:06:59

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2021, at 21:19:28

Would you guys get the Astra-Zeneca vaccine if it was the only one offered at the time?

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by undopaminergic on March 9, 2021, at 8:16:01

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2021, at 6:06:59

> Would you guys get the Astra-Zeneca vaccine if it was the only one offered at the time?
>

I did. People on this thread said it was a good one.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2021, at 12:36:04

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on March 9, 2021, at 8:16:01

Have you gotten it or would you if you could?

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by undopaminergic on March 10, 2021, at 2:56:34

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 9, 2021, at 12:36:04

> Have you gotten it or would you if you could?

As I said, yes, I did (get it).

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2021, at 13:06:36

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by undopaminergic on March 10, 2021, at 2:56:34

Cool. Yeah it may not be the last shot we need to get, but I guess it is a step in the right direction.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2021, at 17:35:40

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 10, 2021, at 13:06:36

Myself and my husband got the Johnnson & Johnson vaccine the one dose vaccine in a CVS pharmacy near us. That is now done. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 11, 2021, at 3:55:30

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on March 10, 2021, at 17:35:40

Cool. I don't know anything about it. My impression is that it is going to be somewhat like with the flu shots. Each autumn, because there will be new mutations every season.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Lamdage22 on March 11, 2021, at 3:56:30

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 11, 2021, at 3:55:30

Maybe the companies should make a joint effort and learn from eachother. This is a bit chaotic with all the different vaccines.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Lamdage22

Posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2021, at 9:12:06

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Lamdage22 on March 11, 2021, at 3:56:30

I agree think J&J more like the flu vaccine. The Pfizer and the Moderna have a different mechanism of action. They us mRNA where J&J used a variant of the virus. They just announce here in USA that the J&J is going to be used in children when the testing is finished on the 12 year olds and up. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Phillipa

Posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 3:00:47

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Lamdage22, posted by Phillipa on March 11, 2021, at 9:12:06

> They just announce here in USA that the J&J is going to be used in children when the testing is finished on the 12 year olds and up. Phillipa

Interesting.

We have announced that everyone in NZ will get the Astra Zenica one and we'll ship the other one's we purchased to other nations.

It makes sense to ship the ones that don't require cold storage / that may require only one shot to Pacific Islands without the cold storage.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2021, at 9:27:37

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Phillipa, posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 3:00:47

Right now didn't you write at another time that you receiving Pfizer vaccination there and you really don't need vaccinations in New Zealand due to using lockdowns to attempt to control the virus entering your country? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 20:57:27

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2021, at 9:27:37

> Right now didn't you write at another time that you receiving Pfizer vaccination there and you really don't need vaccinations in New Zealand due to using lockdowns to attempt to control the virus entering your country? Phillipa

Sorry -- I think I meant to say that everybody is NZ is going to only be offered the Pfizer vaccine (I was mistaken when I said AstraZenica). The other ones we purchased are not going to be distrbuted / offered to anyone in NZ.

Sommething about it simplifying our training / roll out to have only one to manage.

(If you are short term temporary focused rather than thinking that teaching the workforce to properly deal with / handle different vaccination protocols is actually part of developing a robust and skilled workforce).

It does make good sense to get the vaccines that are more stable in warmer climates to the remote island dependencies that NZ has, though. I do have sympathy for that.

I think that if I was you (in the respects I believe to be relevant) I would have done as you did, Phillipa. The Johnson one.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 21:03:55

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 20:57:27

We don't have community transmission. The issue is that people want to come into the Country so currently we have quarantine at the borders. But then that means we have people working in the border quarantine facilities who are at risk. The military and police and cleaners and hotel staff etc etc. Nurses doing their Covid testing. And then they take a turn for the worse, sometimes, and need to be medically treated. So then there is a risk in the hospital...

So the idea that it's only a matter of time, really, until we do get community transmission.

We have purchased enough vaccine to vaccinate more than everyone so...

We are still grappling with 'informed consent' and appropriate sanctions / penalties / exclusions for people who 'refuse'.

Maaori leaders, particularly, do not like the notion of informed consent. They believe it is their right as Maaori leaders to make decisions on behalf of their people. For the very very first time we are having a ligher level of leadership (coming from parliament) that Maori are people too with the same rights as everyone else... So the tribal leaders are looking more like the tribal middle-managers who are just as corrupt as that level of management when it comes to... I don't know... Lead poisoning communities of white people.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2021, at 22:18:25

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2021, at 21:03:55

I see easier to use one vaccine hence the purchasing of just the Pfizer vaccine then. Now are you saying that there will be a mandate for all New Zelander's to get vaccinated to control the community spread sure to happen. Oh and what do you like about the Johnson & Johnson vaccine vs the Pfizer one? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Phillipa

Posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:27:54

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on March 14, 2021, at 22:18:25

Apparently we did purchase a 'diverse portfolio' of 4.

I think because we were told 'are you a developed nation -- in which case you contribute towards the cost of production. We don't know which (if any) will be successful. Contribute towards the cost of production'. Or... Is the plan for NZ to cry cry cry cry cry for vaccine hand-outs like impoverished nations where the leaders are too corrupt to invest in the costs of production? We don't have skilled labor to contribute to production. By the time the kids of the elite officials mopped up all the grades and all the scholarships and all the training places... By the time they got all the money for being yes-men... The best we could do was make a little hand-sanitiser to WHO receipe until our foreign supply of materials dried up.

So we should at least pay money dollar dollar bills to understand the cost of refusing to allow the people of NZ to contrbute towards development.

So now we have 4 different kinds arriving on our shores. But we won't train a task-force to know that different vaccines are different with different instructions on how they are to be stored and administered. Nope. It's tooooooooooooooooooo haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard. There is only allowed to be ONE protocol for ALL the vaccines.

Distribution and roll-out of all the other vaccines has pretty much halted. No MMR vaccines. We are heading towards mumps epidemics (again). Because the government has over-focused on shiny shiny single thing to attract ALL the attention right this minute.

It seems cheaper and easier to make everybody do the same thing. They don't have a sense of diversity and robustness. They won't train all and only the people with the capacity (cognitive or otherwise) for any of that. THey want their idiot children to do it and that's the capacity of their idiot children and there we go.

We are struggling because not many people in NZ understand informed consent. THe things that have been coming out of some of the MInisters mouths lately...

Then the overseas think-tank started writing the policicians speeches or something and we started getting some sensible things through in the media again.

ffs.

They can't cognitively process the thought that everybody isn't required to be all exactly the same (to make their managing easier). They can't deal.

I don't think any other country was nasal swabbing children -- because nasal swabs done properly are very invasive. You need to get a collection of cells right at that sensitive part of yoru oropharynx where you have a concentration of neural endings for your sense of smell... Odor / chemo / taste receptors. That's where the virus targets in the oropharynx. It's very invasive to get a swab of there...

The US (insfoar as I could tell) waited for saliva testing to be developed BEFORE rolling out testing (before rolling out saliva testing) of kids in schools and the like.

NZ waited until we had in fact developed the capacity for saliva testing. Then, very very shortly after it was announced we had the capacity to do saliva testing they voluntarily chose to bully all the kids (all but about 2 of them) into having a nasal swab test at one of the High Schools.

When you only have about 2 kids opting out in an entire school...

That tells you informed consent is'nt working. Because you would expect a higher number to opt out if their decision was accepted.

That is to say New Zealanders most often do not have the right to refuse medical treatment. I am not denying they would rightly be required to quarantine themselves for the health of the people. But they have a right to not undergo an invasive procedure and choose to quarantine instead.

But our politicians / senior health officials don't view it that way.

Tribal leaders, partiuclarly, think they have the right to force their tribe to comply with their will. But the white leaders don't treat their people any better. It is wrong to view it as a cultural thing. It is correct to view it as tyrants disrespecting and disregarding the humanity of their people which means they cannot be the rightful leaders of their people.

________

I would have chosen the Johnson one if I was (relevantly) you I do believe because you are, I think over 60 female. You don't have history of known allergy but you are still highest risk of potentially having an allergic response. You have good access to good healthcare and you likely don't need to bring your own epipen and person capable of administering it to be okay if you did happen to have an allergic response... You could probably trust your health system...

But the moderna and pfizer are newer technology and if I were you I'd let teh young-uns offer themselves while that all gets ironed out. I would be conservative, in your age bracket. The Johnson is the older (more standards therefore probably more reliable) and you only need 1 shot. Likely. So decrease teh risk of negative response. Half it. Maybe. Even.

That being said they'd all likely be just fine.

I wouldn't worry or stress about any of them... Even the recent recent stuff about blood clots... I think that might have more to do with them not wanting to offer 1st dose of it to new people in order to ensure that people can have the 2nd dose of it who had the 1st dose of it. They are trying to get the public on-side with moving to the next type of vaccine that countries are rolling out because they have a diverse portfolio...


 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2021, at 21:14:33

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Phillipa, posted by alexandra_k on March 15, 2021, at 20:27:54

Alex it's complicated. Europe is on hold now with the Astra Zenaca vaccine but they are going to try for emergency approval in the USA. I guess the blood clots are why Europe has the vaccine on hold. Yes definitely over 60 going to be 75 on Saturday. Hard to believe. But when got the shot I and husband both had to sit in a chair where the pharmacist who administered the vaccine could watch us for 15 minutes for allergic reaction. She did have epipens available. The mRNA ones I just don't know? But isn't Pfizer ther one there? Or are they shipping it elsewhere due to the cold storage? Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 18, 2021, at 16:16:20

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on March 15, 2021, at 21:14:33

> Alex it's complicated.

It is very very complicated and I am sure I don't know the half of it.

I am also sure that some of the information is being held back by people who don't understand it who tell themselves that the information would not be received / understood by the public. That is to say I am sure the limitations of our leaders understanding holds up understanding overall as if they can't understand it nobody is allowed to.

Jack and Jill cannot outrun their master.

> I guess the blood clots are why Europe has the vaccine on hold.

Don't know. Possible reasons include:
1) They need to stop giving that kind to new people to make sure they can deliver remaining doses (quotas being produced) to people who need the second shot of that particular one. So logistics.

2) Clots.

3) Manufacturing. I'm not sure if there are quality control issues to do with manufacture on *some* batches. The clots thing could be associated with that... I don't know...

It might possibly be the case that this vaccination is better to be given to people who are not at risk of blood clots. Or there may be no association. I don't know what the clots are comprised of. Clumps of antibody? Or what...

Could be a combo...


> Yes definitely over 60 going to be 75 on Saturday. Hard to believe.

Aw. I can't believe how old I am, either. Happy birthday to you!!! (((Phillipa))) Glad you are still here :)


> But when got the shot I and husband both had to sit in a chair where the pharmacist who administered the vaccine could watch us for 15 minutes for allergic reaction. She did have epipens available.

Yes. That's what is supposed to happen. Except I guessed about epipens... I wasn't sure if it was epipen or aderenalin to the heart but I didn't want to sound scary. Epipens. Yes.


>The mRNA ones I just don't know? But isn't Pfizer ther one there? Or are they shipping it elsewhere due to the cold storage? Phillipa

It's just a different mechanism of action. We don't know as much about it. It could turn out to be a wonderful new invention that is much safer than old ways of doing things. But old ways of doing things were pretty safe already so... Pfizer and Moderna are both the newer technology (mRNA vaccines). If they turn out to be no more problematic than other types of vaccines then likely it will be teh preferrred technology in future.

They reckon that it is easier to vaccinate against a lot of different things with the mrna. The hope is that they can vaccinate people against more things. More strains of influenza (not just a select few). MOre strains of HPV. Better protection.

I worry a bit that it might stress people's immune system overly to prepare them against every possibility... I don't know...

Time will tell.

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2021, at 18:11:51

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 18, 2021, at 16:16:20

Blood clots are a natural occurrence when they just stop you from bleeding if you have a cut or other. The clots occur and clog a blood vessel or artery. That is a bad thing. Can cause no blood to flow to a part of your body by occluding blood flow to heart, lungs brain. The clots is made of your own blood.

Right now the Astra Zenaca vaccine is being studied for approval in the USA. But the newsletter I received both today and yesterday said that with the African variant it's only 10% effective. I would guess unless something else turns up positive that the USA will not approve it. They have three vaccines now. And thanks for the glad I'm still around!. Going to post a medical definition of a blood clot for you. Going to google a good one now. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2021, at 18:21:33

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2021, at 18:11:51

Alex, hope this link works. Long medical explanation of the components of blood clots, mechanism of action, when they are good and what happens to make them not a good thing. Phillipa

https://www.medicinenet.com/blood_clots/article.htm

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?

Posted by alexandra_k on March 20, 2021, at 4:43:06

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k, posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2021, at 18:11:51

The main advantage of the mRNA vaccines is meant to be that it is easy to update them. So... When the virus evolves it is easy to update the vaccination to offer protection against new strains. So... We would expect to hear a lot of 'the virus is evolving faster than the old technology can keep up with isn't it a good thing that we invested sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo) much money in mRNA vaccination technology?'

(and the cold storage etc etc etc)...

With respect to clotting (the coagulation cascade) it's really complicated. I mean... I still get lost / stuck in Pathoma chapter explaining things...

But in addition to the normal or usual or typical things that trigger the coagulation cascade (clotting) or what goes on with it...

There are a bunch of pathological things that can go wrong with it.

I don't know what pathological thing is going wrong with the coagulation cascade such that some people are having clotting problems with that particular kind of Covid vaccination. That was what I meant to say.

For example, one reason why people can have pathological clotting in their blood is that their own body is making antibodies that are reacting (treating as antigen) some component of the blood vessel wall or something like that.

The worry is that if you give people a vaccination that triggers their body to make antibodies... The antibodies that are produced by the vaccination might respond not just to Covid (as they were supposed to) but they might react to something in the body.

So... An autoimmune problem.

For example... In Streptococcus infection sometimes the bacteria gets into the blood and the bacteria lodges on heart valves. I think (but I'm not certain from memory...) that there's a certain type of collagen in the heart valves. The Immune system response that in evoked by the presence of the Strep can cross-react with the heart valves. That is to say the antibodies bind to the heart valves. Then the neutrophils (I think from memory) or maybe macrophage come along and destroy the bacteria... And also destroy the heart valves the bacteria was attached to. So they end up with valve problems / backflow issues. Heart failure...

There are clotting problems that can arise from antibodies attachign to blood vessels when they shouldn't be attaching to blood vessels. Then the immune response damaging the vessles in teh process of removing the antibodies.

That was actually the kind of auto-immune response that I was worried about (more so than anaphalactic shock). The idea that exposing the body to an antigen (which a vaccine is doing usually but maybe not the mRNA ones)... Getting the body to produce antibodies... Might have this potential side affect of the antibodies that are produced not being as specific as we would like and there is a risk with any antibody that is produced being a bit more general so as to target the body and not just the pathogen.

That was my thought. That every time the body makes a new antibody... There is a risk that that antibody will target self-tissue as well.

So... This ideal of vaccinating people against ALL the things migh tresult in autoimmune diseases going up up up in prevalence.

So there might be a trade-off...

I think that is likely. I would put my money on that.

I am interested in what they find in the clots. If it is a clump of antibody or what it is...

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? alexandra_k

Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2021, at 9:54:13

In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by alexandra_k on March 20, 2021, at 4:43:06

Yes the cytokine storms that happen to some when they have covid already. What you wrote about strep is correct which is why you must take antibiotics with any strep infection like strep throat. If left untreated it can enter the blood stream and cause sepsis which can in itself cause death. But any infection which requires antibiotics can attack the heart. A reason that someone who doesn't take care of their teeth and gum disease can travel to the heart and cause the same problems you speak of.

But the Johnson & Johnson vaccine if not mRNA vaccine doesn't present the same clotting problems does it? Last evening on the news it is reported that this Covid is evolving so fast that there are I think it's 6 variants that the FDA and CDC are watching closely. New booster vaccines are being produced now for these new variants. Hence the rush to vaccinate people before they receive no protection at all from the vaccines. I noticed that the Covid numbers are rising again today all over the South here but seem to be falling in the West Coast and they had the most cases a few days ago. Astra Zeneca is again being used in the UK but I don't think the European Nation is giving the shots at the moment. There will be some meeting of the heads of the different countries to decide. Meanwhile the USA is ramping up the vaccines again. Just received another phone call that we could get a J&J vaccine today down the road at a pharmacy but since we received ours now someone else can have our doses. How are things in New Zealand as of today? As for what is contained in the blood clots that's a good question. Phillipa

 

Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences? Phillipa

Posted by Noa on March 20, 2021, at 17:17:20

In reply to Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2021, at 9:25:09

Phillipa, Ive had the first dose of the Pfizer. So far so good. Just a tiny bit of ache right near the injection site for one night.

> Anyone received one of the available Covid vaccines. Please share experience both good and bad. And which vaccine did you receive? Or did you decide not to get one and if so why? And finally who has had Covid? Thanks Phillipa


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