Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 75408

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Re: MAOI diet short list + CORRECTION re liver? Elizabeth

Posted by Rick on August 22, 2001, at 14:58:36

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Rick, posted by Elizabeth on August 22, 2001, at 14:16:02

All good points.

Also, I felt I should (kind of) correct something I wrote earlier.

I mentioned that a few years ago my pdoc claimed that chicken livers were verboten on MAOI's but that beef liver should be OK. Thinking it over I now realize it's POSSIBLE that I've got that backwards. I can't recall for certain that he specified chicken liver as the no-no. (He never even gave me a written list.) It would seem to me that the more important factor would be how fresh the liver is, rather than the animal who donated it. But I could be wrong. And in retrospect I'm perturbed that he didn't give me the lowdown on other species ;). Goose liver, pork liver, fish liver, Carter's Little Liver Pills??? Hey, even Americans will eat anything today.

> > Adam, 186/104 is not generally an "emergency" blood pressure reading, although perhaps if you're typically on the low side a sudden rise like this could be risky...especially if you feel symptoms.
>
> Whenever my BP has been that high, it's been symptomatic. The time when I actually had a hemorrhage that showed up on an x-ray (and caused some nasty symptoms like coughing up blood and stuff) my BP was around 240/140 or something like that. (Normally I run about 110/70, a little lower on MAOIs.)
>
> > I have a hypertensive friend who is taking five (!) blood pressure meds and attaining quite good control...usually 110-130/70-85.
>
> Hypertension is very complicated to treat. When you take one med, your body makes adaptive changes and you have to have another med to counteract that, and then your body adapts to that med and so on... My father takes at least 5 meds for it that I know about.
>
> > (Before treatment his previous doctor gaped in disbelief at a completely asymptomatic 220/120...but no secondary causes were found.)
>
> I think, as you suggested, that paroxysmal elevations in BP in folks whose BP normally runs low or normal are more likely to cause symptoms than are sustained high BPs.
>
> > Every week or two his generally-controlled BP asymptomatically spikes to as high as 180/105, but his doc -- a nationally-prominent hypertension specialist -- tells him not to worry about that. In fact, he recently told my friend to STOP monitoring his BP at home!
>
> That sort of behaviour can actually lead to pretty bad hypochondriasis, yup: people become obsessed with their blood pressure from doing that. It wasn't a problem for me but I've seen it happen.
>
> -elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI diet short list + CORRECTION re liver?

Posted by SLS on August 23, 2001, at 6:51:25

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list + CORRECTION re liver? Elizabeth, posted by Rick on August 22, 2001, at 14:58:36

> All good points.
>
> Also, I felt I should (kind of) correct something I wrote earlier.
>
> I mentioned that a few years ago my pdoc claimed that chicken livers were verboten on MAOI's but that beef liver should be OK. Thinking it over I now realize it's POSSIBLE that I've got that backwards.


I'm pretty sure that it is chicken liver that is most dangerous.


- Scott

 

MAOIs and liver - Rick, SLS

Posted by Elizabeth on August 23, 2001, at 11:13:41

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list + CORRECTION re liver?, posted by SLS on August 23, 2001, at 6:51:25

> I'm pretty sure that it is chicken liver that is most dangerous.

I mentioned liver because it seems to have been involved in a number of cases. I'm not enough of a gourmand to be able to distinguish among various types of liver. (Hannibal Lecter's famous meal of Chianti, fava beans, and human liver might actually have been completely safe even if he was taking Parnate or something. Question is, did he eat the liver right after killing the person, or did he age it a few days first? < g >)

-elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by Lisa01 on January 14, 2002, at 20:46:11

In reply to MAOI diet short list, posted by Elizabeth on August 17, 2001, at 13:43:12

Elizabeth
Thank you so much for this information! I have lost several pounds since staring Parnate almost a month ago due to fear of putting anything hazardous into my mouth! I gave up red wine (my favourite), beer, pizza, nachos with cheese & sour cream... I read on one web site that wine was okay, but only quantities of 1/2 cup or less!

I'm hoping that someone can address several other MAOI issues. Regarding Parnate, I have notice an increase in anxiety/nervousness. For someone taking this for SP, this is quite unwelcome. Any idea if this will dissipate? Also, I don't feel any benefits although it's been almost a month. I'm on the min. dosage. Could it really take over a month to begin feeling benefits? Also, has anyone tried Corona, an imported beer from Mexico, on an MAOI? It's not a dark beer so I'm wondering if it might be okay.

Lisa

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 2:51:46

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Lisa01 on January 14, 2002, at 20:46:11

> Elizabeth
> Thank you so much for this information! I have lost several pounds since staring Parnate almost a month ago due to fear of putting anything hazardous into my mouth! I gave up red wine (my favourite), beer, pizza, nachos with cheese & sour cream... I read on one web site that wine was okay, but only quantities of 1/2 cup or less!
>
> I'm hoping that someone can address several other MAOI issues. Regarding Parnate, I have notice an increase in anxiety/nervousness. For someone taking this for SP, this is quite unwelcome. Any idea if this will dissipate? Also, I don't feel any benefits although it's been almost a month. I'm on the min. dosage. Could it really take over a month to begin feeling benefits? Also, has anyone tried Corona, an imported beer from Mexico, on an MAOI? It's not a dark beer so I'm wondering if it might be okay.
>
> Lisa


Hey Lisa...

I take the MAOI Nardil for Social Anxiety, and have been for about 1.5 years, and consider myself "recovered" or at about 90%... Personally, I have NEVER had any sort of reaction to ANY food, alcohol or otherwise, including chocolate and foods containing tyramine...However, I must say that while my experience is not that uncommon, it is not typical.

as far as beer is concerned, tyramine tends to be absorbed by glass, so you may be able to drink bottled beer (like corona), but again, it depends on your own individual "chemistry"

I believe pizza considered "ok"...along with many of the original items on the "no-no" list.

If you are still having problems with Parnate, you may want to try the MAOI Nardil, It also increases GABA the(antianxiety/anticonvulsive drug Klonopin works by increasing GABA levels...and is also given for social anxiety)

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/tyramine.htm

 

Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm

Posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 7:31:57

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 2:51:46

> Hey Lisa...
>
> I take the MAOI Nardil for Social Anxiety, and have been for about 1.5 years, and consider myself "recovered" or at about 90%...

Hey djmmm,

How do you deal with the side effects of nardil....

Weight gain
Sexual dysfunction
Insomnia
Memory difficulties

Thanks

Spike

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 16:23:01

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 7:31:57

> > Hey Lisa...
> >
> > I take the MAOI Nardil for Social Anxiety, and have been for about 1.5 years, and consider myself "recovered" or at about 90%...
>
> Hey djmmm,
>
> How do you deal with the side effects of nardil....
>
> Weight gain
> Sexual dysfunction
> Insomnia
> Memory difficulties
>
> Thanks
>
> Spike

Well...actually, I had a bit of positional/orthostaic hypotension for the first few weeks, but I also started taking Inderal at the time..Inderal is a beta-blocker...no I don't have heart problems...

Im actually only 23, I have epilepsy, and Inderal helps tremendously with the mysterious tremors I have in my hand (2 neurologist's and several tests have yet to discover why I have this tremor...Im convinced it was caused by the several years I was taking SSRIs..but thats another story)...

back to the MAOI side effects... I havent gained any weight, and as far as sexual side effects, I would take Nardil over Paxil or Effexor or even Wellbutrin ANY DAY...on the SSRIs I felt like an emotion-less zombie...yeah I was no longer anxious, or depressed, but I wasn't happy either, I was lost somewhere in the middle, and very uncomfortable there.

nardil, for me, at least, has been a miracle drug, far less side effects than the SSRIs, or Effexor, Wellbutrin

I do have memory difficulties, but I can not attribute them to Nardil, I take Neurontin and Topamax for epilepsy and both of these medications have adverse effects on memory.

I take:
Nardil 60mg
Neurontin 1800mg
Topamax 200mg
Inderal 40mg

 

Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm

Posted by Rick on January 15, 2002, at 17:27:56

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 16:23:01


Great to hear that Nardil has been a miracle drug for you!

A few questions and comments:

> Well...actually, I had a bit of positional/orthostaic hypotension for the first few weeks

Nardil turned me from (untreated) hypertensive to hypotensive within days. The postural hypotension was so bad that I was falling down, including in public.

>I also started taking Inderal at the time

Do you think the Inderal adds to the anti-social-anxiety effect?

>I havent gained any weight

We both seem to be in a distinct minority on this one. I actually found it *easier* to lose weight when I was on Nardil, and I didn't really cut out many foods due to the cheese effect

>and as far as sexual side effects, I would take Nardil over Paxil or Effexor or even Wellbutrin ANY DAY

So do you/did you have any sexual dysfunction at all on Nardil? Nardil gave me such severe anorgasmia that it continued for almost four weeks after I dropped the Nardil

>on the SSRIs I felt like an emotion-less zombie...yeah I was no longer anxious, or depressed, but I wasn't happy either, I was lost somewhere in the middle, and very uncomfortable there.

I was being treated strictly for SP, not depression, but I can sure relate to your SSRI reactions based on my Celexa trial.

> nardil, for me, at least, has been a miracle drug, far less side effects than the SSRIs, or Effexor, Wellbutrin

Did either Effexor or Welbutrin help at all with the SP?

> I do have memory difficulties, but I can not attribute them to Nardil, I take Neurontin and Topamax for epilepsy and both of these medications have adverse effects on memory.

Again, I wonder if either of these, especially the Neurontin, add to the highly effective treatment of your SP?


> I take:
> Nardil 60mg
> Neurontin 1800mg
> Topamax 200mg
> Inderal 40mg

Any problems with energy or cognition (other than memory) with this combo?

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by Seamus2 on January 15, 2002, at 21:49:17

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 7:31:57

I took Nardil solely for depression, not SP, for 5+ years before trying Parnate because of the anorgasmia Nardil caused. I really like the Parnate better, the only drawback is the increased tension and sympathomimetic agonism.

Nardil caused pronounced postural hypotension for me.

> Weight gain
If I rememeber correctly, I had carbo-cravings on Nardil, but didn't gain any weight.

> Sexual dysfunction
Complete anorgasmia at 60/mg day. No fun! :(

> Insomnia
Can't remember any.

> Memory difficulties
Can't remember any. < g > (no joke, I don't think it impaired my memory at all)

Seamus

 

Re: MAOI diet short list-Seamus2

Posted by Lisa01 on January 15, 2002, at 22:15:07

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Seamus2 on January 15, 2002, at 21:49:17

I thought I was well-versed in my disorder, but I've never come across the term "sympathomimetic agonism" before. Since I'm on Parnate, I'm curious to know what that is. Also, could you tell me how long you were taking it before you began to feel its benefits? I've been on it almost a month and feel the same anticipatory anxiety and physical systems as before.

Lisa

 

Re: MAOI diet short list

Posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 23:04:54

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm, posted by Rick on January 15, 2002, at 17:27:56

>
> Great to hear that Nardil has been a miracle drug for you!
>
> A few questions and comments:
>
> > Well...actually, I had a bit of positional/orthostaic hypotension for the first few weeks
>
> Nardil turned me from (untreated) hypertensive to hypotensive within days. The postural hypotension was so bad that I was falling down, including in public.
>
> >I also started taking Inderal at the time
>
> Do you think the Inderal adds to the anti-social-anxiety effect?
>
> >I havent gained any weight
>
> We both seem to be in a distinct minority on this one. I actually found it *easier* to lose weight when I was on Nardil, and I didn't really cut out many foods due to the cheese effect
>
> >and as far as sexual side effects, I would take Nardil over Paxil or Effexor or even Wellbutrin ANY DAY
>
> So do you/did you have any sexual dysfunction at all on Nardil? Nardil gave me such severe anorgasmia that it continued for almost four weeks after I dropped the Nardil
>
> >on the SSRIs I felt like an emotion-less zombie...yeah I was no longer anxious, or depressed, but I wasn't happy either, I was lost somewhere in the middle, and very uncomfortable there.
>
> I was being treated strictly for SP, not depression, but I can sure relate to your SSRI reactions based on my Celexa trial.
>
> > nardil, for me, at least, has been a miracle drug, far less side effects than the SSRIs, or Effexor, Wellbutrin
>
> Did either Effexor or Welbutrin help at all with the SP?
>
> > I do have memory difficulties, but I can not attribute them to Nardil, I take Neurontin and Topamax for epilepsy and both of these medications have adverse effects on memory.
>
> Again, I wonder if either of these, especially the Neurontin, add to the highly effective treatment of your SP?
>
>
> > I take:
> > Nardil 60mg
> > Neurontin 1800mg
> > Topamax 200mg
> > Inderal 40mg
>
> Any problems with energy or cognition (other than memory) with this combo?

To answer your questions...
the Inderal most def. helps with the "physical" aspect of social anxiety.. the increased heart rate, sweating.

I found that once my heart wasn't beating out of my chest, I wouldn't start sweating, and then I wouldn't start blushing..and this helped tremendously....but psychologically I was still having the same distorted "self-centered" social phobic thoughts.

as for sexual side-effects, rarely I have had problems with anorgasmia...maybe 10 times in the 1.5 years I have been taking the Nardil... The SSRIs destroyed my libido, and being only a teen/early 20's at the time (im 23 now) that was just unacceptable...Effexor and Wellbutrin weren't any better...

...also Effexor, surprisingly, did not work at all for me, neither did wellbutrin, and wellbutrin sr gave me hives.

I do think that the Neurontin and Topamax have contributed to my recovery...

 

Re: MAOI diet short list-Seamus2

Posted by djmmm on January 15, 2002, at 23:28:44

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list-Seamus2, posted by Lisa01 on January 15, 2002, at 22:15:07

> I thought I was well-versed in my disorder, but I've never come across the term "sympathomimetic agonism" before. Since I'm on Parnate, I'm curious to know what that is. Also, could you tell me how long you were taking it before you began to feel its benefits? I've been on it almost a month and feel the same anticipatory anxiety and physical systems as before.
>
> Lisa

Hey Lisa
sympathomimetic is a term typically used to describe drugs that stimulate the central nervous system, like ephedrine, pseudofed,...here, he is using the term "sympathomimetic agonism", when refering to the drug Parnate.

Until recently, it was believed that the metabolites of Parnate were Amphetamine and Methamphetamine, which would fit the definition of "sympathomimetic agonists"

Most research does not support the amphetamine metabolite theory. However, there is still a lot to learn about MAOI pharmacology.

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Lisa01

Posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:40:18

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Lisa01 on January 14, 2002, at 20:46:11

> I gave up red wine (my favourite), beer, pizza, nachos with cheese & sour cream... I read on one web site that wine was okay, but only quantities of 1/2 cup or less!

Jeez. There's no evidence that *any* wine is dangerous with MAOIs. There is one thing on your list there that you might want to be cautious about: the nachos. Sometimes restaurants use cheddar cheese, which is something you should generally avoid (while on MAOIs, that is).

> Regarding Parnate, I have notice an increase in anxiety/nervousness. For someone taking this for SP, this is quite unwelcome. Any idea if this will dissipate?

I'd expect it to, yes. You might back off to a lower dose and then increase it slower.

> Also, I don't feel any benefits although it's been almost a month. I'm on the min. dosage.

What do you mean by "the min. dosage?" I certainly think it's possible you would do well on a higher dose.

> Also, has anyone tried Corona, an imported beer from Mexico, on an MAOI? It's not a dark beer so I'm wondering if it might be okay.

I'm not sure that the color of the beer has any relationship to tyramine content. But I can't say anything about Corona specifically, sorry.

-elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI diet short list P.S. Lisa01

Posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:45:23

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list-Seamus2, posted by Lisa01 on January 15, 2002, at 22:15:07

> I thought I was well-versed in my disorder, but I've never come across the term "sympathomimetic agonism" before. Since I'm on Parnate, I'm curious to know what that is.

I think he just means that Parnate has mild amphetamine-like effects -- it enhances the activity of the sympathetic nervous system (which results in some of the "jittery" side effects like tension, increased heart and respiration rates, etc.).

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Rick

Posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:50:23

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list djmmm, posted by Rick on January 15, 2002, at 17:27:56

> Nardil turned me from (untreated) hypertensive to hypotensive within days. The postural hypotension was so bad that I was falling down, including in public.

A big change in baseline BP will do that. I had a couple of fainting spells when I first started taking Nardil. I got used to it after a little while, though. Did you continue having this problem, or did it get better for you too?

> We both seem to be in a distinct minority on this one. I actually found it *easier* to lose weight when I was on Nardil, and I didn't really cut out many foods due to the cheese effect

Lucky! I've heard that men are less likely to gain weight on Nardil than women are, although I suspect this perception might result from women being more likely to report this side effect.

-e

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Elizabeth

Posted by Rick on January 16, 2002, at 23:03:00

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Rick, posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:50:23

> A big change in baseline BP will do that. I had a couple of fainting spells when I first started taking Nardil. I got used to it after a little while, though. Did you continue having this problem, or did it get better for you too?

After two weeks of blacking out and falling down (wish I was onto the pretzel excuse back then), and one especially unpleasant incident where I hit my head, my pdoc prescribed Florinef. It really felt weird to be a recent hypertensive taking something to raise my blood pressure!

After a few weeks I was able to wean off the Florinef and my BP stabilized at about 100/55. At that point, the weakness, staggering, and falling stopped, and I'd just have occasional fleeting dizziness upon standing up -- as I later did with Serzone.

>Lucky! I've heard that men are less likely to gain weight on Nardil than women are, although I suspect this perception might result from women being more likely to report this side effect.

Could be. Regardless, I think the key is to pick the right diet to go with the particular med. I can tell you that Nardil is tailor-made for the "fall down before you can get to the refrigerator" diet.

Rick

 

So, what is left on the danger list?

Posted by Augusta on January 17, 2002, at 18:35:33

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list P.S. Lisa01, posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:45:23

Just to clarify, what foods are still known to be risky when one is taking an MAOI?

(Are there any foods that are outright dangerous?)

 

Re: MAOI diet short list-Lisa01

Posted by Lisa01 on January 17, 2002, at 19:18:45

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Lisa01, posted by Elizabeth on January 16, 2002, at 20:40:18


> What do you mean by "the min. dosage?" I certainly think it's possible you would do well on a higher dose.

I take only 10 mg. of Parnate once a day. When I upped it to twice a day (after 3 weeks at once) I had severe dizzy spells and was always cold. I have low blood pressure when not on meds so I didn't think it was a good thing to make it too low...

As I understand it, it can take 4-6 weeks to perceive therapeutic benefits even at higher doses, right?

Lisa

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Rick

Posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 2002, at 10:12:45

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Elizabeth, posted by Rick on January 16, 2002, at 23:03:00

> After two weeks of blacking out and falling down

That would be fainting or "syncope."

> (wish I was onto the pretzel excuse back then), and one especially unpleasant incident where I hit my head, my pdoc prescribed Florinef.

The "pretzel excuse?" This is one I'm not familiar with (and I try to keep up with the latest research in excuses!).

Did the fludrocortisone have any bad side effects?

> After a few weeks I was able to wean off the Florinef and my BP stabilized at about 100/55.

Yeah, that's about what mine tended to run when I was on MAOIs.

> Could be. Regardless, I think the key is to pick the right diet to go with the particular med. I can tell you that Nardil is tailor-made for the "fall down before you can get to the refrigerator" diet.

< g >

-elizabeth

 

Re: So, what is left on the danger list? Augusta

Posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 2002, at 10:31:35

In reply to So, what is left on the danger list? , posted by Augusta on January 17, 2002, at 18:35:33

> Just to clarify, what foods are still known to be risky when one is taking an MAOI?
>
> (Are there any foods that are outright dangerous?)

Sure there are. I'm not trying to claim that you can eat whatever you want while taking MAOIs. I think I mentioned cheddar cheese; other aged cheeses can also cause problems. Here's the list of dietary restrictions that I used (evidence-based):

Avoid altogether:
- tap beer
- foreign bottled beers
- aged cheeses (some modestly aged cheeses may be okay in moderation, but exercise caution)
- spoiled or improperly stored dairy (e.g., milk or yogurt past the expiration date) or meat
- aged, smoked, or fermented meats (e.g., salami, bologna, summer sausage)
- fava beans (I *think* that it's just the pods that are a problem, but I'm not positive)
- banana peels (what a loss!)
- sauerkraut
- miso soup
- yeast and protein extracts (e.g., Marmite, Bovril)
- certain herbal teas containing ingredients such as "ma huang" (ephedrine)

Exercise caution:
- wine and beer
- soy products (e.g., tofu), especially soy sauce
- liver (seems to be implicated in a lot of reactions even when it doesn't seem to be spoiled)
- coffee and other high-caffeine beverages

This list isn't necessarily exhaustive and shouldn't be taken as such; it's just what I can think of off the top of my head. I hope it helps.

-elizabeth

 

Re: MAOI dose and dizziness Lisa01

Posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 2002, at 10:37:51

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list-Lisa01, posted by Lisa01 on January 17, 2002, at 19:18:45

> I take only 10 mg. of Parnate once a day. When I upped it to twice a day (after 3 weeks at once) I had severe dizzy spells and was always cold.

I'm generally intolerant to cold, but I think that Parnate made it worse. The dizziness should subside after a while. Some people find that taking salt tablets relieves MAOI-induced dizziness.

> I have low blood pressure when not on meds so I didn't think it was a good thing to make it too low...

It's really not dangerous unless you start fainting, then you have to worry about falls!

> As I understand it, it can take 4-6 weeks to perceive therapeutic benefits even at higher doses, right?

It can, although I've encountered a number of people for whom it worked faster. But I wouldn't expect 10 mg/day to be a sufficient dose. 30 mg/day is generally the minimum effective dose, I think (some people might notice partial effects at 20).

-elizabeth

 

Re: So, what is left on the danger list?

Posted by Seamus2 on January 18, 2002, at 22:01:59

In reply to So, what is left on the danger list? , posted by Augusta on January 17, 2002, at 18:35:33

Salami was the only thing I had a bad reaction to while on Nardil.

But I was, and am (now on Parnate), still pretty careful.

Like Elizabeth, I still steer clear of
- sauerkraut
- miso soup
- yeast and protein extracts (e.g., Marmite, Bovril)
- certain herbal teas containing ingredients such as "ma huang" (ephedrine)

as well as
- liver (seems to be implicated in a lot of reactions even when it doesn't seem to be spoiled)

But I have no problem with
- coffee and other high-caffeine beverages


Seamus

 

Re: MAOI dose and dizziness

Posted by Seamus2 on January 18, 2002, at 22:11:19

In reply to Re: MAOI dose and dizziness Lisa01, posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 2002, at 10:37:51

> I'm generally intolerant to cold, but I think that Parnate made it worse.< <

Jeez, you can say that again! I restarted on Dec 18 and have been freezing ever since. I take thyroid, on top of it, too, but the peripheral circulation just shuts down completely. Maybe if I quit smoking .... and that 1.5 cups of coffee in the morning doesn't help, I don't think.


> > I have low blood pressure when not on meds so I didn't think it was a good thing to make it too low...
>
> It's really not dangerous unless you start fainting, then you have to worry about falls!
>

I have naturally low BP too. Just get used to bending over and putting your head between your legs. Actually, nobody realy looks at you funny, and it beats passing out! (Was doing this long before MAOI therapy)


> > As I understand it, it can take 4-6 weeks to perceive therapeutic benefits even at higher doses, right?
>
> It can, although I've encountered a number of people for whom it worked faster. But I wouldn't expect 10 mg/day to be a sufficient dose. 30 mg/day is generally the minimum effective dose, I think (some people might notice partial effects at 20).

FOr me it kicked in 80% within three weeks, 50% within two; and noticeable at 30 mg/day within one week.

And I get by on 20 mg/day for maintenance, but woe if I think I can get along without it.

Seamus

 

Re: MAOI diet short list Elizabeth

Posted by Rick on January 19, 2002, at 4:20:14

In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list Rick, posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 2002, at 10:12:45

> The "pretzel excuse?" This is one I'm not familiar with (and I try to keep up with the latest research in excuses!).

Referring to George W. Bush's recent brief fainting spell after he choked on a pretzel. Not to make light of Mr. Bush's travails, but since this was a Presidential Excuse, I'm shocked that it hasn't surfaced in your excusional research. I suppose you have an excuse?

> Did the fludrocortisone have any bad side effects?

No.

Rick

 

Re: MAOI dose and dizziness-Seamus

Posted by Lisa01 on January 19, 2002, at 9:11:31

In reply to Re: MAOI dose and dizziness, posted by Seamus2 on January 18, 2002, at 22:11:19


> FOr me it kicked in 80% within three weeks, 50% within two; and noticeable at 30 mg/day within one week.
>
> And I get by on 20 mg/day for maintenance, but woe if I think I can get along without it.

Seamus and Elizabeth: Thanks for all the info. I'm sure you've heard of a book called Feeling Good by David Burns--it's there that I got the idea that 10-20 mg. of Parnate would be sufficient. Also my MD didn't want to put me on any more than 10 at first.

Seamus, how long before you reduced to a maintenance dose? I haven't gone to 20 mg. yet. but plan to start next week. Also, do you do, or have you done, any CBT? That is what I hope will be my permanent solution as I hear these meds "poop out" and I don't want to be switching back and forth with other meds. Do you ever fear you are messing with your brain chemistry and may permanently screw it up?

Lisa


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