Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 332291

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Re: i can't find the words crushedout

Posted by Pfinstegg on April 4, 2004, at 12:05:06

In reply to i can't find the words, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:27:02

I think you've understood something very important- that dissociation precedes the SI urges. The dissociation -the 'escape when there is no escape"- occurs in all of us when the pain we are experiencing becomes too great to bear. Even before we begin to dissociate, we don't really know why we are feeling so much pain; after we have dissociated, we know even less- we feel numb, empty and wordless- and the SI becomes a way to express the pain in a primitive, non-verbal way- the only way we may feel we have when we are dissociated.

Words and communication are your best allies. Writing down everything you can can be helpful; you can read it to your therapist later, or ask her to read it while you are with her. You can telephone her when you need to, and try to put these feelings into words; sometimes writing things out just before you call can help with getting words for the feelings. You can also do non-verbal, comforting things for yourself while you are waiting to talk to your therapist- such as listening to calming music (Mozart is very good), having a favorite hot drink, a warm bath, a massage, even.

Just knowing you have other resources available to you even when you are in so much pain can help you take good care of the most important and valuable person - YOU.

 

Re: i can't find the words Pfinstegg

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 12:18:42

In reply to Re: i can't find the words crushedout, posted by Pfinstegg on April 4, 2004, at 12:05:06


you're so right, pfinstegg. this thread has taught me a very important lesson about why i SI. you put it very well.


> I think you've understood something very important- that dissociation precedes the SI urges. The dissociation -the 'escape when there is no escape"- occurs in all of us when the pain we are experiencing becomes too great to bear. Even before we begin to dissociate, we don't really know why we are feeling so much pain; after we have dissociated, we know even less- we feel numb, empty and wordless- and the SI becomes a way to express the pain in a primitive, non-verbal way- the only way we may feel we have when we are dissociated.
>
> Words and communication are your best allies. Writing down everything you can can be helpful; you can read it to your therapist later, or ask her to read it while you are with her. You can telephone her when you need to, and try to put these feelings into words; sometimes writing things out just before you call can help with getting words for the feelings. You can also do non-verbal, comforting things for yourself while you are waiting to talk to your therapist- such as listening to calming music (Mozart is very good), having a favorite hot drink, a warm bath, a massage, even.
>
> Just knowing you have other resources available to you even when you are in so much pain can help you take good care of the most important and valuable person - YOU.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 15:14:34

In reply to Re: i can't find the words Pfinstegg, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 12:18:42

Crushed,
You have the words. You have posted them many times here. One post that might help you get started is this one.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040402/msgs/332288.html

Perhaps if you go back through some of your posts over the last several weeks, you might find the words. You can bring her the posts if the idea of writing is too much right now. You do such a wonderful job of opening up here. I know it is not the same as in therapy, and we are not your T. Those dynamics are quite different. But your thoughts are here, as if they are a journal.

Good luck, dear. Please do not SI. I agree with Dinah, it likely will not have the result that you are hoping for, and if it were to, that leaves me very worried about whether this relationship is helpful for you or not. And THAT is what therapy is for. Not for the T. For you. So your actions also are for you, and not for your T.

Thinking about you,
gg

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 16:13:30

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 15:14:34


Thanks, gg. Yes, that post is a good starting point, I guess. I'm probably looking for the perfect words, something that will move her to tears (or, at least, me).

I am thinking, though, that this relationship with her is not good for me. I started cutting to hurt her, or to get a reaction out of her, and I was successful (she got angry). Now she tells me it hurts her when I do it. Do you guys think that is too codependent of her, to be hurt by my cutting? She says it hurts even more because I know it hurts her and I do it anyway. I mean, her reaction makes sense to me, and I found it moving (and it made me want to stop cutting, at the time), but is that normal, healthy, whatever? Just wondering.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 16:13:30

I personally don't think her response that it hurts her is helpful. It is either manipulative or serious countertransference. Either way, I don't think it is therapeutic for you. It puts your SI'ing in terms of her, when it really is your behavior.

Sorry if this is overly harsh. I think you ARE working through transference by thinking of ending the relationship and realizing it may not be therapeutic any longer. I think her reaction to your SI is evidence that it is no longer working.

I wish you the very best. Whatever you decide, I know it won't be easy. Take care, sweet.

(((Crushedout)))

gg

 

Re: Important clarification crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 4, 2004, at 19:51:29

In reply to Re: Important clarification Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 10:02:36

If you want to meet me in Open, or email me, I'll tell you what his reaction was. I found it rather hurtful to put into words and my own reaction made me reluctant to disclose it to others for fear they would also find it hurtful.

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:00:25

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24


I don't think that was harsh at all. I asked you for your opinion and I really appreciate it. I also appreciate your caring and support very much.

Thanks, gg.

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:07:50

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 17:06:24

In my T's defense, I *asked* her how my SI'ing made her feel, or how she felt about it. I suppose she could have refused to answer me, though.

I'm just confused. What you say makes sense, but I also felt like she was just answering my question honestly. Maybe she is just too codependent. It shouldn't hurt her. Or, she was lying and then she's manipulative and really, really weird.

This seems to be what happens to me a lot with her: she does something that I on the one hand respect for its honesty, and on the other, wonder if it's really kosher because it seems a bit unconventional to say the least. Then I solicit other people's opinions (which are often critical of her) and then I feel like I need to defend her, worrying that I haven't really given you the whole picture.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 22:36:11

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:07:50

Hmm, I think you are right about that pattern. Thinking back on other threads, that has been what has been happening. Do you think this is specific to your relationship with your T, or does it sound like a pattern in other areas?

gg

 

Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl

Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:56:06

In reply to Re: i can't find the words, posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 22:36:11


I think it's something I only have with my T. I can't think of any other examples of that happening in my life.

 

Re: i can't find the words

Posted by gardenergirl on April 4, 2004, at 23:26:04

In reply to Re: i can't find the words gardenergirl, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2004, at 22:56:06

Thanks for responding to my last. I realized that I probably was wearing my T in training hat, and I know that's not what you are looking for here. Sorry. Good luck in your next session. I'll be thinking about you.

gg

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger)

Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 5, 2004, at 16:14:58

In reply to premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by crushedout on April 3, 2004, at 22:13:28

Crushed,

Can I be blunt here?

You have been thinking about firing your therapist for weeks now, right? You even went in one day and fired her but she talked you out of it.

I think this is your body's and your mind's way of telling you to trust your instincts. Trust yourself. Your T is not good for you.

One route to take would be to fire your current one and then get a male T, someone for whom transference would be less painful.

 

my grandma died today

Posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 5, 2004, at 16:14:58


I'm doing okay, but it's sad. I think I won't cut. But it's going to be hard to fire my T tomorrow, since I probably will need her support pretty badly.

Also, I have some other weird stuff to tell you guys but maybe I'm not up to it right now.

 

Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger) Miss Honeychurch

Posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:56:20

In reply to Re: premeditating SI (caution may trigger), posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 5, 2004, at 16:14:58


I appreciate your honesty, Miss Honeychurch. I really do. I think you may be right. I'll have to see.

And a male therapist might be a good idea, but they've never worked for me in the past. I just don't feel comfortable with men. But it does prevent the whole transference thing (altogether, in fact). I don't even have child-parent type feelings towards men. I think that might be also why it doesn't work.

 

soory about your loss :-( (nm)

Posted by Fallen4myT on April 5, 2004, at 18:10:37

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

 

thanks, fallen (nm)

Posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 18:20:44

In reply to soory about your loss :-( (nm), posted by Fallen4myT on April 5, 2004, at 18:10:37

 

Re: my grandma died today crushedout

Posted by DaisyM on April 5, 2004, at 19:41:18

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

Crushed, I'm sorry for your loss. I hope she didn't suffer and wasn't alone.

I believe that God calls his children home at really special times of the year and Easter/Passover is such a blessed time. I hope you can find comfort in knowing that.

You, and she, are in my prayers today. Take good care of yourself and do something that would make her smile.
Daisy

 

Re: my grandma died today crushedout

Posted by Raindancer on April 5, 2004, at 19:54:43

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

So sorry to hear of the loss of your grandma. You are in my thoughts and prayers. A part of those we love always stays with us and I hope you will be comforted and given strength at this sad time.

Raindancer

 

thank you daisy and raindancer

Posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 19:58:04

In reply to Re: my grandma died today crushedout, posted by Raindancer on April 5, 2004, at 19:54:43


I am sad, but I got to tell her I loved her just before she died, and I know she is inside of me. I remember her very fondly. I am going to be with my family tomorrow and I think it will be really nice. She was a really funny, tough old bird, and I will miss her.

 

Re: my grandma died today

Posted by Joslynn on April 5, 2004, at 20:01:56

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

Oh no! I am so sorry. A sad thing of course, and then of course there is the timing factor on top of everything else.

 

Re: my grandma died today crushedout

Posted by gardenergirl on April 5, 2004, at 21:11:23

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

Oh crushed, I'm so sorry. My grandma died on Easter Sunday three years ago. It was very hard for me, but I think of her with me whenever I am singing in the shower or along with the radio, as she really loved to sing.

I'm sure you will miss her and grieve, but she will always be with you.

((((crushed))))

gg

 

thanks everyone

Posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 21:20:37

In reply to Re: my grandma died today crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on April 5, 2004, at 21:11:23


i'm really okay. sad, but in a good way. it's almost better, i find (as twisted as this sounds) when i have an actual *reason* to be sad, than when i'm just depressed and have no clue why. do you know what i mean? i hope i don't sound callous. i'm really not.

anyway, i wonder if i should bring up the termination thing tomorrow after all. i'm tempted to, but it's kind of scary right now. i guess i'll just see how it goes.

 

Re: my grandma died today crushedout

Posted by All Done on April 5, 2004, at 21:53:29

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

Sorry to hear about your grandma, crushedout. Make sure you take care of yourself during this difficult time.

All Done

 

Re: I'm very sorry for your loss. (nm) crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2004, at 8:32:27

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

 

Re: my grandma died today crushedout

Posted by terrics on April 6, 2004, at 11:36:11

In reply to my grandma died today, posted by crushedout on April 5, 2004, at 17:53:58

Sorry about your grandma. ((((crushed))))
terrics


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