Psycho-Babble Politics Thread 1094248

Shown: posts 15 to 39 of 64. Go back in thread:


Re: politics alexandra_k

Posted by beckett2 on October 23, 2017, at 1:16:09

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 20, 2017, at 17:48:20

> Our new Prime Minister. A tad differnet from Trump.
> I might just... Get approval to live someplace habitable (independently), after all. If I make a good enough case for needing it (in the interests of my own mental health / work capacity).

This sounds like potential for some good things. Is she a member of the Green Party? I find the news cheering and fuels my wish to live in NZ. I'm sorry you don't care for where you live--did I get that right?

Have you thought of volunteering for political change? I don't know why that came to mind, and you very well may be volunteering right now.

A survey in the US. 35% or so of millennials would be open to some form of military government. I'm trying to make sense of this factoid. Increasingly I don't recognize the country I live in. That's not a misanthropic view, but more that I'm getting older and feeling a bit let down.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 3:40:50

In reply to Re: politics alexandra_k, posted by beckett2 on October 23, 2017, at 1:16:09

> Is she a member of the Green Party?

No, she is a member of the Labor Party. For the working class...

The Green Party is a little bit too extreme to get a significant majority.

Dairy exports are central for our economy - but methane emissions from cows produce significant greenhouse gas emissions and the nitrogen fertilisers from farming are killing rivers and lakes from algae blooms...

NZ really isn't the clean, green country it has marketed itself as being...

Labour does want to do something about this... But it's tricky because of the central role of farming in our economy. We've been... Literally focused on trying to feed all the babies in China...

We need to develop clean and green... But that relies on quite a lot of high tech expertise. High tech expertise isn't something that we do particularly well at. I mean... If there were a way to harvest the methane for biofuels...

It's next to impossible to get something good up off the ground here, I find. I think it is a kind of greed... There is the slippery slope of 'just one more, just one more, just that little bit more' until the whole thing is ruined. Whether it be teaching a small group a valuable skill or... Anything at all, really. As soon as people see you've got something that looks to be on the up... It gets ruined, pretty quick. Or brought out. Brought out and undermined so we revert to the way things were before...

I think...

I think that political expertise is (yet another) area in which things are looking a little scarce...

Things are going to take a turn for the worse, here.

The economy will take a hit as we stop doing some of the dodgey deals we've been doing (contaminating milk powder for increased profits, shipping live sheep to the middle east)...

Then the people who have invested in rental property... Their investment will take a hit as we start to improve our tenancy laws so landlords are required to provide habitable houses. As more houses are built and people are helped into owning their own homes.

These things (things such as these) need to happen... But National doesn't want to be the one to do it / the one in power while it's done. It's their voters who will be taking the biggest hit because it's their voters who have profited the most from these sorts of things...

It has to be labor to do it. That's the game of politics, I guess. It simply has to be done on labours watch.

And Winston Peters as deputy. So... When the chicky babe runs the economy to the ground because of her bleeding heart trying to help the working poor... Well... The stern grandfatherly type can step in, if needed, and reassure conservative NZ that everything will be okay...

And it's time to see about closing our borders and... Looking after NZ(ers) First. As he's been saying for... Most of my life, actually.

Funny how he's grown on me, over the years.

I think I should stay away from politics, really. I... Could have pursued law. And / or political philosophy. I could have tried harder to get a policy advisor sort of a position in the capital (I half heartedly pursued it - but you really need to persist for around a year before something comes through and I got tired of it / heart wasn't really in it after around 3 months).

> A survey in the US. 35% or so of millennials would be open to some form of military government. I'm trying to make sense of this factoid. Increasingly I don't recognize the country I live in. That's not a misanthropic view, but more that I'm getting older and feeling a bit let down.

What does 'military government' mean? I don't really know...

Over here... I see quite a lot of disaffected youth. Kids who would really like to be doing something useful, but nobody will teach them how to do anything useful. It's hard because a lot of them... Their parents haven't taught them basic things like to be quiet and listen when someone is trying to teach you. It's also hard because a lot of them... The people employed to teach them haven't actually had anything worth listening to... So...

And then you see footage of something happening in China... And you see rows of people. I mean, so many freaking people. Being orderly. Being quiet. Not bouncing off each other. Walking in step.

And you get to thinking... I don't see how living amongst the screaming rabble constitutes freedom in any meaningful sense.

Not sure if that's related.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 4:46:22

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 3:40:50

I don't care for where I live... Because I really just want a quiet place by myself.

I have been forced to live with others out of financial necessity for much of my life, and it never works out well for me.

I always end up withdrawing from the people I live with because I don't feel I get enough personal space. This results in them feeling slighted and they often decide that it is fun to antagonise me in the spirit of 'any attention is better than no attention at all'. On some instances it escalates to outright bullying.

Living in more crowded places like residential halls tends to reduce the bullying aspect because there are enough people around for everybody to get their social needs met.

Living in more crowded places like residential halls is a sort of a torture for me, however, because walls are plywood and you can hear people in neighbouring rooms coughing, f*rt*ng, chatting to their grandma etc.

Where I am is on the quieter side of residential halls... But the difference is made up by the intermediate school just outside my window where 10 and 11 year olds yip and squawk and scream and yell for most of every day. Then skateboards slamming into the evening etc.

I have dreams... Of a house on a section big enough to be surrounded by shady trees as a noise / visibility buffer from neighbouring sections. With one of those metal picket fences (that disuades climbing). With an auto gate so neighbours don't get a good look at me (so they don't decide to target me as someone who must be their friend or suffer their escalating noise - because any attention would be better than no attention).

It's a shame we don't do medium density construction properly such that there is a reasonable degree of soundproofing between internal walls - but we just won't / don't in this country - so I suppose someone will have to come and mow the lawns.

With a kitchen... With properly weighted sharp knives. And with a fridge that I don't have to share with anybody else so my covered things stay covered and so nobody spits in my milk. So I can *enjoy* spending a 1/2 day cooking (on occasion). And with a freezer so I can make my own convenience meals. Sort of open plan... To a living area that is aesthetically pleasant. With a green leafy tree aspect to it. Someplace *pretty* where I can sprawl out all my stuff and... Get on with it.

It would be great to have a kent fire with the flume as central heating. I have never looked after my own fire, before... I think you can keep them burning on low for quite some time without tending them with coal... I would need to look into that... Since we don't do central heating here...

Leafy trees during the day and a fire at night...

I would actually feel like a person.

Trying to explain this to anybody else... I'm being 'unreasonable', 'super-sensitive', 'too fussy', and 'expecting too much'.

I don't feel like a person living here. I feel like the person is falling out of me. With every squeak and yip and squawk and slam slam slam I become colder with respect to the people who upset me, so. Of course rationally I understand that it is reasonable that they bounce their balls about on the ball court and so on...

That doesn't change the effect it has on me.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 5:00:44

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 4:46:22

And if I had something like that...

Then maybe I would find the idea of having some people over for a time to be something that I would enjoy.

Maybe I would even start to feel lonely and would think about having someone else live with me.

I don't know. I've never had the opportunity to find out.

I keep thinking of Kant...


He said something about how you can't say 'yes' if you don't have the power to say 'no'.

And that's it, exactly.

I'm not in a position to have a relationship with anyone because there is no equality. I'm not even a person. Feels to me.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2017, at 20:24:47

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 24, 2017, at 5:00:44

The will to live starts to receed.
Because the will starts to receed.
Because there isn't a person, there, at all.
There is no me because the world will not let you be.
The world rushes into you and through you like you are a ghost.
You don't exist as a separate entity, at all.
Other people will tell you what to see
Other people will tell you what to hear
Other people will tell you what to buy
Other people will tell you what to think
Other people will tell you what to believe
Other people will tell you what to do
And you must stay with them and love them and like them and try and be like them, just like them, for always, for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, amen.

And I...
Really don't want to live,
Like that.

Why am I living with these awful people? Why do I always end up being forced to live with such awful people, here, in this awful f*ck*ng country?

Why me?

Why ME?

I don't f*ck*ng understand.


Re: politics alexandra_k

Posted by beckett2 on October 25, 2017, at 22:11:31

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2017, at 20:24:47

Alexandra, I'm sorry you're feeling so cr*ppy at the moment. Are you living in student housing?

And are you okay when you talk about not wanting to live... like that?


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2017, at 19:57:48

In reply to Re: politics alexandra_k, posted by beckett2 on October 25, 2017, at 22:11:31

> Alexandra, I'm sorry you're feeling so cr*ppy at the moment.


> Are you living in student housing?


> And are you okay when you talk about not wanting to live... like that?


I think around 630 or 650 people committed suicide in this country last year. That is in a population of around 4 million.

I don't know how many tried to kill themself, but didn't succeed.

I don't know how many thought long and hard about trying, but lacked the energy / were too afraid of failing to try and kill themself...

But that's just the tip of the iceburg on how many people don't want to live... Like this.

Life is not very nice for quite a few people in this country. A great proportion of people in this country... We could talk about neurotransmitter levels and so on... But that would be a cop out so that we didn't need to think we seriously needed to address the social factors in this country that results in people preferring to be dead than to continue living on in their communities, the way that they are.

There was this thing in the paper yesterday about this guy appearing before a judge... The lawyer saying that basically the guy was committing a bunch of senseless crimes because he wanted to go to jail and get some treatment. This is something we see over and over and over and over again. People drink-driving, particularly. Really going on benders and rampages... People want judges to sentence them to treatment because that's the only way they can get treatment. People want to go to jail because they don't want to live in their communities and there is some kind of hope that they may be rehabilitated in jail.

Of course we have a bunch of people who keep on that people should be treated *in their communities*. And now I need to be careful here, because things (and people) do, of course, vary... But a lot of the time we can't get Doctors or Good Teachers etc in certain communities because they don't want to live in those communities, either. Sometimes... Sometimes you end up with a bunch of volunteers or allied health people whose livlihood depends on people in the communities begging them / relying on them for help. They can sometimes be part of the problem. A very big part of the problem. It's the people whose livlihood depends on people in communities begging for help all the time who have most to gain by keeping people in their communities begging for help...

People just really don't want to live there, like that.

But then you go... If so very many people don't want to live there, like that, then why don't they change the way they live so their lives are nicer?

And... I'm not sure what to say...

I feel like either: 1) There is a sorting process that has failed. So that different people are genuinely happiest living in different sorts of environments (e.g., high stimulus vs low stimulus). Or 2) There is more uniformity in what is good for people / what would make them happier and healthier it is just that...


Hurting people do lash out?



People have gotten to know me, down here. They know that I'm basically clean and tidy and quiet living and hard working and... All the things that you need to assess over time because people don't even attempt to represent themselves accurately / don't know who the f*ck they are, half the time.

With all these people owning all these houses that other people are expected to rent... It shouldn't be that I need to buy my own house in order to have suitable housing... If suitable housing that I can afford to rent doesn't come through for me, next year, then I'll face the fact that this country really doesn't value me, (or people in some sense 'like me') at all.

So, it will be time to look at getting the f*ck out.

I really do want to stay here. I just want a quiet place so I can focus on my work. I don't know how many times I've said it... And how many times I've needed to explain to people that children screaming *is not quiet* - at which point it turns out they were just basically... Lying to me about it being quiet. They were basically just nasty people who lied to me and didn't give a care at all about the misery that would result in me from my moving into a place that wasn't suitable for me to live in.

Something that gets me away from these awful people...

So I can refresh, recharge, rejuvinate...

So as to *genuinely helping them* for however many hours out of every day *that I'm working - for them*. Some home... That is *for me*.

Otherwise... It's just not feasible, at all. Not without psychopathy.

Like how they lied to me... 'Yes, of course, we are doing everything we can to help you...


Rot in your community'.

It really needs to be less awful, here.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2017, at 14:47:16

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2017, at 19:57:48

So, apparently 50% of specialists / doctors burn out, here.

Not sure how they compile those statistics. It is part of this whole 'look after yourself' health strategy thing we have got going on here. Part of the whole attempt to 'lead by example'. There's been a change to the hippocratic oath something along the lines of how a doctor swears to look after themself so they may provide the highest standard of care for their patients.

You really do have to tell people in NZ that they should look after themself. That's what the health system, here, has always told me. That there wasn't much of anything wrong with me, that I should go away, that I should look after myself. Even... That I looked after myself better than most of their health workers seemed to...


And, of course, it still comes back to: 'And will the people let me?' Will the people let me sleep when I need to sleep or will the people insist that banging away and yapping and squealing away outside my window is their being 'perfectly reasonable'? Because if they are right that it is perfectly reasonable for them to do those things... Then it is perfectly reasonable for me to not have to live in their community. It's really as simple as that.


I don't understand why we don't have zones. Oh, wait, we do, it's just that I can't afford to live in a quiet zone. And we simply refuse to look after the things we've got. In the whole spirit of 'why would be try and reduce burn-out in locally trained doctors when we can just recruit foreign ones who have been struck off their registers / who haven't completed their training and pay them peanuts and treat them like sh*t and they'll nod and smile and work here for however long they need for their ticket to Australia'?

Close the borders, Winston. New Zealander's First. Go on... It's the only way we'll start looking after the things we've got. Time to stop pissing off Australia for being the backdoor for the sh*t of the world...

It's really bad for me, living here. I just need to use the experience to articulate a case for me... For others like me (in some sense of like me)... Because the government people can understand me... So maybe it doesn't matter so much that I'm not so fussed on maths... Maybe it doesn't matter so much with this particular government...


I hope something will come through for me for next year.

It's just awfully stressful on my nervous system living here. And I see glimpses of the psychopath within that would be nurtured if I were to continue living in such an environment. Perhaps I start to see why so many clinicians had eyes that were glazed over. Why they didn't interact with / relate to patients as people, as persons, at all. You don't see humanity at it's best when you are continually assaulted by the nonsense squarps and bangs of unhappy people. You just don't. It's like... Living in an orphanage for the intellectually handicapped. Or one of those old school asylums before the birth of antipsychotics. Start feeling... Postal, about it all. Start to understand why people want to blow up schools.. Neighbourhoods.. Countries.. Just to get a little peace and quiet.

It's f*ck*ng horrible, here.

It's the sound of countless people 'This is how it feels to be me! This is how it feels to be me!'

Indeed. 7 years the first time before I started wishing I was dead, already. Back again for another 7 years and I really don't need y'all constantly squarping and banging at me that y'all would really rather be dead. I f*ck*ng get it.

Maybe if every single person in this country... Every single person in this world listened to you bang and squarp all day and felt just like you... The world would be a better place? You'd have got what you wanted?

I just don't get it.

Just have to get out.

F*ck*ng awful people and their f*ck*ng awful lives. Determined to spread their f*ck*ng awful.

Beam me up, already.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2017, at 15:05:06

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2017, at 14:47:16

And of course maybe it's just my stressed out nervous system talking. Maybe they wouldn't rather be dead, at all, maybe it's the joyous sounds being emmitted from joyous people and there is something specially autistic about me that I can't appreciate the sounds of happy kids (and happy adults) playing and expressing their joy, all day.

I think he was wrong to say (in the paper) that burnout in medicine is particularly... common? problematic? Because of the long hours and because of the life and death nature / serious impact on peoples lives nature of the decisions. or bad decisions / mistakes that are made as people become burned out).

I think that saying that is more likely to get non-doctors off-side as they go MY job has long hours too and MY job involves important decisions too! Wah! From nursing support staff to truck drivers and people working in mines who may actually have a point to... Just every f*ck*ng one who has been taught to cry 'me too! me too! me too!'.

Also... I think perhaps, that it is just not true.

I think it is more that there is a flip side to certain abilities. The ability to make fine grained discriminations... Training that ability... So you can (for example) distinguish between just noticable differences in the radiograph etc... Being sensitive to these subtleties... The flip side of that is noticing the accumulation of filth and noticing the squarps... Noticing and being bothered by those things.

And it's not just doctors, of course. There are countless people being driven quite mad by the noisy f*ck*ng bastards in their communities.

And then there are countless people who aren't bothered at all but will cry 'me too! me too! me too! I am just like you, me too!' and often it is these people who have the power to change the situation, but won't, because they lack the capacity to understand all they do is cry 'me too! me too! me too! I totally understand everything you say and mean and I agree 100%! me too! me too! me too!' from the meaning-blind... Zombies. hmm...

It is mostly males. I don't know why we are so damn sure we can't find some war to believe in...


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:32:06

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on October 31, 2017, at 15:05:06

I guess the thing about keeping people kicked down / believing that the locus of responsibility is with them is that it induces depression. Whereas if they believe the locus of responsibility is external to them then it is more likely to induce psychopathy / sociopathy. Blaming the environment... Makes one... Want to leave. I guess. Of course there is the whole 'what makes you think that things will be better anyplace else'... But... Things were better someplace else... I've experienced that before...

I think it is looking like I find out by the 23rd of December. I'm worried sick about it... Have been too busy foucsing on exams to really think about it, properly... Last exam tomorrow morning...

Then there are heaps of seminars. I mean, like practically every day there is a seminar that seems interesting. Couple conferences (that I can't even afford registration for)...

I'm worried sick... Because this is it, really. If it doesn't work out... It's unthinkable, really.

I'm so f*ck*ng tired of being treated like trash being expected to be happy and grateful living in the trash...

Seeing how psychopathic people have more autonomy than me, over their own lives... Over making miserable the lives of other people...

This all better seem like a bad dream...


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:34:57

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:32:06

There were swings... Which was nice, for me. To swing on the swings. I could go for a bit of a walk and get a bit of exercise and swing up high on the swings. Good for my vestibular system etc.

And so now they've been taken down. Someone from the council, I guess. Removed the chains / seats so that's that, really.

I suppose it's because they were little kid swings, really. And then I swung and people saw me swinging. And then older kids thought it was cool to hang out by the swings. 11 year olds or 13 year olds or 18 year olds or 22 year olds or 45 or 65 year old men, or whatever. I guess there was some element of not safe for little kids anymore?

Whatever... Whatever the reason...

I liked something
Other people ruined it
It's gone



Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:59:37

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:34:57

It's largely the alcohol.

Around 1% fetal alcohol effects in the US... up to 4% here, they reckon. But then you need to factor in that the people are concentrated in certain parts.

It really is about the IHC being in charge...

And it's hard, you see, because there is something so very socially inappropriate about saying anything about it.

It is one thing when IHC are in a minority and when there are resources (of time, care, attention) that can go into looking after people who (in some respects) lack the ability to take proper care of themselves.

It is another thing when IHC becomes the social norm so that the way they look after themselves becomes a lifestyle option...

It is another thing when IHC is put in charge of all kinds of people to be in charge of how other people are allowed to look after themselves...

And you could spend all the time there is trying to explain to people in charge why you need this or that or why this and that isn't working and there just isn't a capacity to understand, at all. It's just a pointless waste of time.

And now I've probably offended someone and I deserve to be murdered in my sleep.

Because the social norms...



Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 18:08:00

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 17:59:37

And that's even the way the 'designer babies' thing is going.
The concern used to be that people would use genetics knowledge to... Try and breed Barbie girls or athletes or cognitive geniuses...


People are using genetics knowledge to...
Give birth to infants with Down's Syndrome.

I think there is something... Nice? About when a community is able to care for such a person...

But I think there is something... Deeply disturbing... About people who seem to pursue having such a person...

I mean... Really intentionally... Would rather prefer to have a kid with an intellectual disability (and possibly severe physical disability) than a kid who is well.

Maunchasen? Something like that...

Things like Glee...

Fine line between accepting and... Gloriyfying.

There's so much money to be made...

I keep seeing examples of how having a population who isn't able to understand a bunch of stuff... How controllable they are...

Aren't able to identify even less protect their own interests...

There is a strong element of 'you could spend your life arguing with idiots if it makes you happy' (as a warning of how you really could spend your life -if such a life would be something you find meaningful).

Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the scratching of my finger to the destruction of teh universe...

Don't want to get caught arguing such things round and round and round and round...

Don't want to get caught in conversations where everything is equally valid and right is wrong and black is white and up is down...

There really does come a point where you just have to get away from the awful. If you have the capacity to find it awful. Plenty don't. I guess. Just need to turn and walk away.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2017, at 2:07:01

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 4, 2017, at 18:08:00

I'm just really tired. Why is Robbin's Pathology such a big book? And why do the lecturers only do little snippits of it and then little snippits of other things that aren't even in the book? And why don't they use proper sentences instead of all these abbreviations and bullet points that are really hard to follow? And why is there so very much information? And why do I always feel like I'm missing some very basic things that are somehow assumed - that I just don't know. And why are most other people in the class doing so very much better than me at it? And so on...


It's all the Med Lab Science people. I think maybe it's a different kind of brain. I really am doing my best...

But I just keep getting lost in the big book. I mean... The number of times I've just gotten lost in Chapter 2. I mean, totally lost. For days... Weeks... And then I get behind on other stuff. And I lose the big picture, somehow. I don't understand all they want is 4 keywords and 4 bullet points... I don't seem able to get the focus right.

I have to write essays and I really don't think I should have to speak any of it, just yet. Even multi-guess is not my friend (though I do think quite a few of their questions were... Non-sense...) And yet OTHER PEOPLE came out of the test with marks in the 90's so I'm really not sure what gives, and how it is that they are able to do that...


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 19:03:28

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2017, at 2:07:01

The swings are back up. Which was nice. Maybe someone saw I crash down on them a bit, since I swing so high. Maybe they are a bit stronger now? Not sure.

I feel really vulnerable. And sad. I'm homeless. Just a random homeless walk-in. And I probably shouldn't ask questions in seminars or go to seminars on social policy since I really can't get my head past thinking that a heap of good people just like me (in some sense) are homeless and jobless and basically treated like sh*t here. And I feel sad / angry about how much money is wasted on frivalties and so on when I'm homeless. And sad. Anyway... I best just stay away, I think.

Apparently there were 6 students who died over the last year in probably suicide circumstances, here. They have cut some councellors and replacing them wih clinical psych... alcohol group work... it's always too little, too late.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 23:39:07

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 19:03:28

I guess what upset me was this idea that government departments (or health agencies or whatever) use advertising strategies to try and get the public on-side.

So... Providing 'information' that is more like advertisement - since communications is more about persuasion than anything else.

So... How do you get the people to accept that there won't be publically funded treatment for this rare kind of leukaemia, or whatever. Since every now and then there is some public outcry about some kid (usually) who didn't get treatment... So private fundraising... Goes overseas and gets the treatment...

And it was particularly upsetting to me because today there was something in the paper about how people in this country don't get their cardiac surgery (it gets postponed 4 times or whatever) and then people die.

And it upsets me that we think it is a better idea to put all this money into having a bunch of people employed to figure out how to get the public to simply accept that this choice (to delay delay delay until the people go away or literally die of a broken heart) is better than putting that same amount of money into the actual treatment of people.

All the f*ck*ng conferences for managers. All the f*ck*ng 'support staff' whose job is to delay delay delay. All the paperwork in triplicate and so on... All the f*ck*ng busy busy busy work. Hiring people to be f*ck*ng obstructive because obstruction saves money (somehow). Just... Redistributes it differently. Me-wards.

There was this idea of... Maybe if the people didn't have a comparison. Maybe if the people didn't know that certain cardiac surgeries existed (for example) then they would be just so very much more accepting of the government not funding that treatment for the population. Some little glimmer of interest in that...

And I remember how for so very many years of my life I was so f*ck*ng miserable. So very f*ck*ng miserable and unhappy and I wondered why I ever had to be born and wished I'd never been. And I didn't know what was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it. I couldn't blame anything in particular (I mean it was me - right? There was something irrevokably wrong with me - but not something that meant I should be treated, clearly)... And what was wrong was... That life was sh*t. I didn't need a comparison class to see that. Life can be nasty, nasty bruitish and short and it's just as nasty bruitish and short whether or not there are other people living like queens...

But seeing other people living like queens... Wasting money here there and everywhere... Making stupid decisions and unlucky decisions and psychopathic decisions... It's vinegar in the wound, to be sure.

And of course it isn't fair to blame public health academics (or similar). Not even the economists or managers. Most probably. And of course there are similar frivalities in government spending all over the place and it's silly to get upset about health, in particular. Only... It's like how you (or I, anyway) EXPECT MORE of certain people precisely because they are involved in certain professions.

I guess the public health people are about a public health system - where they are not expected to / are not required to use that system themself.

And the people who work in housing aren't forced to live in a rental property that is managed similarly (with same laws applying and being enforced) to the tenants whose interests they supposedly serve...

I guess people are just trying to make a living. And it has been decided that it is a better use (in some sense) of funds to divert funds to busy-work to keep people meaningfully (in some sense) employed. Maybe... If they are good enough at preventing others from getting the things they need they'll get enough such that they can afford the things they need for themselves.

I have a horrible view of teh world, right now. It's not about a comparison class.

There is this whole focus (I think obsession) here on hierarchy. I think it is a British influence sort of a thing. Biblical, even with the idea of God and then the King and then power filtering down through more and more. And this idea of a hierarchy pervades other aspects of life. There is this idea that life, generally, is something of a hierarchy. And things like evidence... Hierarchy of evidence with everything being arrangable on a scale of better or worse or best. Anyway...

This is something that has come up for me... This idea of absolute and relative wealth... I think the idea is that in terms of absolute wealth we are doing great in NZ. That's the marketing. That's what we persuade people. 'Don't be silly! Stop your wining and complaining! Things are doing great! You have enough food (actually, nutritionally empty calorie dense rubbish that will kill you - if it wasn't only temporary!) what are you complaining about? What is wrong with you! We are so rich here that people are dying of obesity (it's their own fault they only eat rubbish!) and so on... We are so rich here that people waste money on alcohol (actually a way of self-medicating because there is not much of another way to block out the nasty rubbish in your neighbourhood and damage to teh frontal lobes is pretty mjuch the only thing helping you come to see the light that things are really wonderfully terrific and only temporary!!)

My point being: We are very poor. Lots of people in the US, too. Addicted to sugar and corn syrup and salt... To the point where they can't handle the detox and we sell them 'it's your own fault for not being able to moderate consumption'. We tend to not blame people (anymore) that they can't moderate... Cocaine use etc. We get that certain substances are addictive... But we don't get it for food...

So most people here don't actually eat a nutritoinally adequate diet. And it is killing them of all these 'developed nation' diseases and we WILL NOT face up to the obvious fact that they are NUTRITOINAL DEPRIVATION illnesses...

No... This would be me not understanding (oh please don't let me fail public health AGAIN).

But this idea of relative poverty...

There was this thing about people trying to get fans in sweatshops someplace overseas. The sweatshop people don't want to spend the money on installing them and running them and so on... So the people were trying to make a case on economic (rather than humanitarian) grounds. Sayign that the workers would be more productive if they weren't delerious with heat exhaustion. They offered to install fans in one of the workshops. The sweatshop owners wouldn't accept that, apparently. They said that they could do that - because the workers who were assigned to the control workshop (without fans) would be jealous.

So this idea that a better world is a world where everyone lives in sh*t rather than a world in which less people or a lesser proportion of people live in sh*t.

It was probably more to do with the fear that they would be forced to install them / maintain them.

But this relative poverty thing, again.

Most people would rather be head of a hierarchy. Most people would rather be best house on the worst street.

That is odd, to me. I always thought the idea was to be worst house on the best street. Becaue then... Your environment is conducive to your getting better. You are ALLOWED to get better, at the very least. You would actually be allowed. Neighbours would approve of your efforts to improve.

We see that some people in some countries have access to x or y or z in their health system - but we don't.

What do we need to do to make that happen, here? How can we make that happen here? Why do certain things in healthcare cost so much? Especially surgeries (if you can reduce the reliance on medications and medical devices and patiented technologies)... Why can't we clear the surgical waitlists for routine procedures?

Instead... Lets try and restrict access to information... So the people don't even know these procedures exist... People won't be upset they are dying if they don't know that what htey are dying of is preventable...

ANd of course the vultures circling... Always...

I feel sad, today. I don't want to piss off the public health people. There are good people, I'm sure. I... Couldn't work in it, that's for sure.

Of course they should have nice conferences and so on. And the government should also fund the arts. And there are perfectly nice managers and so on who are doing their best to make an honest living and so on... And no, I don't suppose I do want to see them out of work...

But I'm scared about whether I'll find a suitable house, I guess. I think it is more important to me than most people to have my own quiet private space.

Which is of course why I never seem to have one.

It's a nasty world. I don't like it very much.

It will be okay.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 23:43:21

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 23:39:07

and of course it wasn't really about the talk, today, it was about me being exhausted just after exams, and me feeling scared about whether or not I have a future in this country (whether medicine will invest in me, or whether I'm only wanted if I'm prepared to hang about begging for scraps).

And seeing it that way...

Yeah, well, I've been rather too trusting of people, in my life. The things I've tried, here, because people thought they might turn out to be suitable for me / good for me. I'm just not prepared to fall for that, anymore. If it makes me percieved as domineering and / or intolerant or, whatever, well... Maybe that's for the best. Something something about how people rather like to fall (grumbling incessantly, of course, always peck peck pecking) behind a strong leader.

Maybe that's just the way you have to be.


Which is why housing is so hard. There is an element of holding out rather than settling for sh*t. I usually cave too early and then wonder why I spend so much of my life suffering... Suffering... Suffering... From all the toxic sh*t.

No more.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2017, at 0:07:50

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 6, 2017, at 23:43:21

And something really rather ironic, indeed...

There is / are beautiful beaches, here. Maybe not so beautiful by international standards. Not, exactly, tourist destinations.

But quiet. Rugged. Quiet because they are rugged. Choppy ocean on sandy beach in arctic breeze...

Site of former sewerage outflow pipe. In fact, site of present sewerage outflow pipe, I think. They just make it longer... Pipes it 1.5km offshore...

All the sh*t.

It's really quite beautiful, out there.

Signs still up about not swiming in the water or eating the shellfish.

It might be quite nice to be living out there. Literally amongst the sh*t.

Things are not always what they seem, here.

I think it mostly might be about keeping things hidden away...

It's unfortunate that this hierarchy idea has become embraced as part of Maaori culture... Instead of this idea of... Well... Everyone being a leader. A meeting of minds.

We're just not there, yet.

And yes, I will stop.

Time for a blocking?

Pay attention to me.


I am not like them. Not. Not. Not.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2017, at 12:55:27

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 7, 2017, at 0:07:50

And just one more...

I have been thinking a lot about frequency dependence. About this idea that certain things (or behavioural strategies) might only be viable (or profitable) in a frequency dependent way. So then it becomes about staying ahead of the curve, rather.

I think perhaps that is a major lesson for me. Has to do with tragedy of commons, and so on.

I mean, say you see an opportunity... An empty commons. And then you think to yourself 'hey, I could buy a sheep or a cow, or whatever' and graze in on the commons. And so you do that. But then somebody sees you and they decide to do it to... And maybe to start out it's great that there are other people out there on the commons. You can take turns babysitting the herd, or whatever. You can pool for a sheep dog, or something. But then the population grows and the returns diminish (e.g., less tasty tips so the animals aren't fattening up the way they used to) and then, once every freaking person has jumped in, the grass is obliterated from overgrazing to the ruin of them all.

The ruin of them all...

I guess there is a point where it is best to get out.

I saw the housing thing coming, here. When my Mother told me that my sisters kids had been advised by the law firm she works for (as an administrator) to get their money out of trust and into property... I knew it was time to get out of property.

I wonder where the people who... First invested in property... The ones who are out of property already... I wonder what they have invested in, now... Not the ones who got lucky, I mean, the ones who saw it coming... I wonder where it's at, now...


Might have transitioned into health property... Who knows... Am I all independently discovering finance, or something??

Anyway... This frequency dependence thing... I guess sometimes it really is best to get your damned mouth shut when you are on to a good thing. Or... To be a little quid pro quo about who you share helpful things with. Co-operativity for mutual benefit... I feel like I have missed something... But I suppose I'm also learning that it is about the hardest thing in the world... I hope I'm not... Broken. In some kind of Autistic way... About this. Such that... I'll never be in the position to have financial independence. I mean.

I am a bit scared...

I remmber hearing that some of the med students were scared that they would be required to commit atrocities in rural communities in their government bonded jobs after graduation... Now I'm starting to think that raising the possibility (putting the fear amongst them) might have been a way of teaching them ethics... Little bit of scaremongering... Make it seem real... See what people are made of. Was what I used to think about that. But I'm starting to see all these various positions along a spectrum.. I'm starting to see that things are so very much more complicated than I had thought. It really is too easy to make false dichotomies and arbitrary stipulations on the terms of the debate so as to make the solution easy... Or easier... To really lay out the slippery slope of the extremes... And the scope of diversity of tenable positions between them...

To not be corrupted.

But to understand that you can't always get what you want.

Quid pro quo Clarisse...

Or similar.



Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2017, at 23:42:56

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2017, at 12:55:27

and... (the very last one)...

I guess that's why you just have to trust, someone. Perhaps... The people who decided to trust you? Probably those guys. And I guess that's why there are social norms as well as rules... For some guidance on what to do. And a long socialisation / indoctrination process... And you just have to trust the values of the field. Because... What is the alternative?

I've been thinking about the road rules as I learn to drive...

To start with I was really upset when I saw people breaking the rules. Speeding. Crossing double yellow lines. But then it got me thinking about how the social norms are a different thing... The ticket system is about ticketing the top however many percentage of speeders... So... That makes it okay to follow the flow of traffic from a ticketing point of view (mostly / probably). And if you have great visibility and there really isn't anyone coming then really what is the harm in crossing the double yellow line?

Not that I'm condoning running a red at an intersection...

But I'm starting to... Grow up? Perhaps.

I was never into applied ethics... I... I don't know.

I miss you Dr Bob. Even if it is the *idea* of you. What I most miss about you is how you used to interact with us more. I know that used to upset some of the posters, but I really liked it when you posted about articles you had been reading and when you interacted more over on admin and stuff. I just say that because...

I just thought today about Harry Harlow and his monkeys. And that standard photo of the little monkey who had never been hugged... And I think now about all these 10 year olds and 11 year olds and 18 year olds and so on... With their mobile devices. And the wire cage with a furry coat. And the avatar that is supposed to provide motivational support through DBT mindfulness stratigies (or similar) for CBT brief online therapy (or whatever). And... It just seems worlds away from what you have given us, here. Or from what I got from it. Or whatever. And that's anecdote and there hasn't been a RCT and so on...

I'm so very... Tired. Afraid. Of being put in the wrong group of people. Of (it feels to me) being punished for their sins. Of needing to take the hit so they can take the profit. I don't know. I feel like I"m always an outlier. Like my take / perspective / whatever... Is never acknowledged or supported or understood or helped...

Tissue samples and the development of... Patentable medical devices. For the advancement of medicine. Of course.

But you were human... You were distinguishable from a computer program. At times. Not at all times (clearly, that has been questioned). People did complain that you seemed... Robotic... At times... But then you would respond in a human way. A *humane* way. At times it was clear that there was a person who cared. Who took time. And so on.

I... Really don't think that is just my imagination.

The hand-over... I really don't think it would have been possible... That degree of co-ordination of care?? I'm not convinced...


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:02:37

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 9, 2017, at 23:42:56

and you've got all these people... all these people crying for / fighting over pieces of the pie. we want to help this group or that group or whatever. we think a piece of the pie should get to go to them... and they bicker amongst themselves and so on...

and then it turns out that something they can all agree on... is that they should just split up the pie amongst themselves. they can spend the pie on air fares to the capitol. on decent hotels. on dinners. on conferences. on drinks. on free friday cocktails for everyone working in the department of whatever and all their friends and family, too. they can spend the money on their own salaries. on cars to get around. they can spend the money on an intern or two (whatever we call those) to write whatever report or inquiry.

and nothing is left for the actual people they were talking about in the first place.

you have to meet with people and have a 4 day all expenses paid hui, alex. that's just the way things are done here.

yeah. that's the way things are done here.

thats the way you get to play with the people who get things done. just look at the things they get done. do you want to play with the people who get things done?

i think you just want to stay the hell away.

to be honest.


i think it might be a waiting game.

before... there was something i could be doing. i could be studying. there was something i could do to have control over things. work harder.

now... its about waiting. waiting to hear about my grades... but waiting to hear about whether or not i have a place...

about waiting to see if a suitable place to live comes up...

while they try and starve me out...
beat me down...
see if they can persuade me to live with the drug dealers and the prostitutes. see if they can guilt me into it:
you think you are better than them?
you think you are so special?
here is this lovely place and you are all livnig by yourself, oh yes, you are (with shared bathroom and kitchen and people rummaging through your stuff every day to check you don't have knives or needles or guns or methamphetamine)

they put families in motels. the government defended it recently... at least it was habitable. they put offenders in there, too, because communities get upset about having violent offenders in them etc (no idea why - maybe because we are supposed to help each other instead of asking for professional help)...

i don't know why things feel ilke... such a farce. such a f*ck*ng farce down here.


yeah... that is where the money goes. it's the social norms. corruption. that is what it is. complicit...

it's funny, isn't it... how all these people kill themselves... but then all these other people... you wonder how they can live with themselves... i... i really just don't understand that, at all.

i don't really know what to say.

i think it is about patience, now. the patience to... wait and see. to not feel pressured into doing something (anything) something... to not make the situation worse. just sit tight. if i have to eat sh*t for a few weeks... so be it.

it feels like... psychological torture. thats the thing. the inner city in auckland... felt like vibrations / frequencies were being emitted... intentionally. the kind of thing that defence knows all about but most people are too stupid to understand / give credit to / know what /h ow its effecting them. like how people don't understand about advertising and about eating poision labelled food. people don't understand about the vibrations / frequencies.

mass control...

of course there would be a f*ck ton of money in that...

i feel sad life is so awful for so many. i feel sad that there is so many, so very much awful.

there aren't even all that many people down here. or up there. everything is empty nearly all of the time. just certain times of the year and day when everything is intentionally clustered / concentrated.

all the empty houses...

sitting there, empty...

but gotta keep the homeless people together...

and pity would be no more... if we did not make somebody poor...


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:11:44

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:02:37

and it's just... stuff... shuffling stuff around.

money is just a proxy for the stuff...

see, it's just not the case that the money that was spent on flights for these people could have gone as a cash injection into whatever community project.

fact is, there were empty seats on this or that flight and that's how we fill up the flights so there are flights to fill up and how are you supposed to have a national airline that runs frequent flights without getting people to fill up the flights???

and the hotels... the nice hotels that the out of town advisors and so on stay in... those hotels would be partly empty, too.

what are you supposed to do to have people in the hotels?? who is supposed to be in the hotels? you can't put your seedy clientele drug dealers and prostitutes and people just out of prison and people who live out of town but have no drivers lisence but who need to report to their parole officer... in those hotels... those are nicer hotels... for the tourists.

the tourists on the cruise ships. which are not the boatloads of refugees that got turned out of Australia. they are tourists - like on the Love Boat. people like that. people who will spend thousands of dollars on a painting by a local artist and not people who will go into the church charity shops when they arrive and look to buy second hand clothing... not people who will rent or by a RV to go 'freedom camping' because they can't afford to park it in a trailer park...

and the alcohol... i know... it's a taser to the frontal lobes and i don't suppose i begrudge it. i mourn for the fact that so many (including myself at times) feel drawn to it because of how f*ck*ng miserable they are.

i just don't understand... why everything is so f*ck*ng miserable for so many. i just don't understand.


Re: politics

Posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:13:37

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:11:44

i wonder if we are poorer than kansas.

i suppose we are.

i hope that wasn't uncivil to kansas. sigh.


Re: politics alexandra_k

Posted by beckett2 on November 15, 2017, at 22:28:45

In reply to Re: politics, posted by alexandra_k on November 11, 2017, at 0:13:37

Were you quoting Hannibal Lecter earlier?

I read the NZ has the highest youth suicide rate out of the developed countries-- I had no idea.

There is amazing disparity in the US. In every state to some extent. California is beyond the pale. When a wildfire burned almost 6,000 houses this year in a single region, rents and housing prices are so high, many are not sure if they need to leave state.

We had a modest killing spree to the north of us just yesterday. At a school for part of it, then random drivers.


Re: politics beckett2

Posted by alexandra_k on November 17, 2017, at 21:57:48

In reply to Re: politics alexandra_k, posted by beckett2 on November 15, 2017, at 22:28:45

> Were you quoting Hannibal Lecter earlier?

Yeah. I'm not sure I remember the context of the quote. I was thinking of it in terms of 'you tell me / do for me something I want; then I tell you / do for you something you want'. In a fair bargain there is mutual benefit of roughly equal value. Hannibal was an evil genius, though. I guess I was thinking that he had greater insight into payoff structures - but perhaps that wasn't it. I don't remember what agent Starling was bargaining for...

> I read the NZ has the highest youth suicide rate out of the developed countries-- I had no idea.

Yeah. A whole heap of reasons why, to be fair. The rate for guys is higher - but that's probably just because guys are more mechanically minded and tend to select methods that are more likely to be successful. Women are used to being pooh poohed at such delicate little flowers that they don't understand how hard the body will be to kill. Pills and so on. Body has natural defences...

It's hard to know what life is supposed to be about for a lot of youth.

> There is amazing disparity in the US. In every state to some extent. California is beyond the pale. When a wildfire burned almost 6,000 houses this year in a single region, rents and housing prices are so high, many are not sure if they need to leave state.

Yeah. I knew someone who lived in another State who was always applying for jobs in California - and then turning them down. He said he needed a significant pay increase, really, in order to have a comperable sort of house / lifestyle and they couldn't really afford to offer him that.

> We had a modest killing spree to the north of us just yesterday. At a school for part of it, then random drivers.

I'm sorry.

I feel like saying 'we don't have so much of that' - but I think that that is partly we are just so small... And partly it manifests differently.

When I was 16 I used to board with this lady and her two kids (8 and 6). She was genuinely lovely. separated from an open bretharen marriage (was raised closed bretharen). At the time, I think she was 27. She was a pretty good Mother to those kids, but she was also living some of the things she never got to do in her youth, I guess. Liked to go out to the nightclubs... Anyway, she ended up hooking up with this guy... And then he got pretty controlling not wanting her to go out dancing and so on (she was not slutty / sleezy - but he just didn't trust her). Anyway... I left and he moved in... Then she booted him out. Then he booted the door down, shot her, and shot himself. The kids came home from school one day, and there they were.

We actually get quite a lot of incidents like that.

It's not the people you don't know... It's the people you do know, the people whom you don't have the power to get the hell away from.

Work and Income here would quite like me to move in with the prostitutes and drug dealers. I guess the Work and Income Workers are rather a lot like the hospital managers. Their goal is to not spend any money... If they can convince me that I'm useless and rubbish, that I'm asking too much, that I'm being unreasonable, that I'm being too sensitive and so on... Then money is saved.

There is this whole thing of how people need to harden up and people need to be more resilient. That's what's wrong with the people who kill themselves, they aren't resilient enough.

You have to be fairly resilient to be a prostitute in order to make a (slightly) better living than solely getting by on welfare, I guess that's true.

Drugs would probably help. Yeah.

I wonder if the Work and Income Workers get kickbacks. You know, on making sure that people who want to get out of those kinds of lifestyles... Are abused at the door on their way in... And then sent back to wherever the hell they came from quick smart in order to save a little money.

It's about the tourists, really, I suppose.

Love Boat etc.

Where is the love?

Well well well, just stay home, and at least we all have equitable access to the internet! And what lovley leaky homes they are, too, where people can simply kick the door down and murder you in the night time or the day time... Any time they want...

Getting away from the awful.

I don't know that housing will come through for me, until next year.

They ask you for financial information, you see. Your Work and Income number and so on and so forth. There aren't laws to stop them. Funny how we bitch moan and complain about how it's illegal to ask a person this, that, and the other, when we are considering them for a job. What about when we are considering them for a house? Or a home loan, I guess.. Employers have your home address... Before they decide whether you make it to interview.

I do get that people are just doing what people feel they need to do in order to protect them and their own... From the nasty.

And I suppose I also get that there are a bunch of people... The dealers and the pimps and the like... Who seem to like their lives, just fine. They are the boss of their tribe of prostitites or addicts (the ones who use more than they sell). They are thriving... Flourishing, in fact. I mean if we let the underlings who wanted to get out get out... The best ones... Of course, it's typically the best ones who want to get out... If those ones got out then perhaps life wouldn't feel worth living by the dealers and the pimps who currently keep them. Then they might start out on different targets... There needs to be vulnerable people to target... F or the people who only feel like if worth living when they get to target vulnerable people. Of course.


There are an awful lot of seedy places... I think I need to go with my gut. And just sit tight. And wait. Not sign up for anything that isn't suitable. 2 places have come up that would have been okay but they let them to someone else. Maybe they will let them to me after they get to know me in time. See that I won't sign up to seedy places. See that I notice. That I'm not prepared to live in that / live like that. No amounts of words work because the language has been ruined by all the resilent people who have taught there own that what you do to succeed in the world / in life is to spout whatever rubbish you think the other person wants to hear (and act on precisely none of it).

Even applications for things... There is nothing you can say...

Until you've been identified as a person who means what they says, says what they means, and a person who is only really interested in mutually beneficial deals (and not interested in doing business with people who are looking to take what they can at the others expense for as long as they can get away with it before moving on to the next vulnerable target).

No amount of words...

Go forward in thread:

Show another thread

URL of post in thread:

Psycho-Babble Politics | Extras | FAQ

[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,

Script revised: February 4, 2008
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.