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Re: anger with God markwell

Posted by hyperfocus on November 29, 2011, at 23:28:01

In reply to anger with God, posted by markwell on November 19, 2011, at 9:55:13

The closest I have come to rationalizing this terrible illness we share is to agree with what Scott says: all of life is a duality. The same mind that makes us feel joy and comfort and wonder and love and sets us free so that we can roam the whole universe with our thoughts, can also imprison us with sadness, fear, anger, hatred, despair...to the point where we seriously wish we could do away with the whole thing. Without this duality nothing would exist. You can't have light without darkness. Everything in the world is multidimensional and of different forms - different colors. Without this duality nothing would exist. We also have, as far as we can determine, free will, and others have the same. Which means we all the have same capacity to do good: to help, share, love - or to do evil: hate, cause pain, destroy. The universe runs on causality - the same forces that produce waterfalls or rainbows or galaxies or anything we marvel at in nature, also produce earthquakes, floods, drought, destruction...The same stuff in our brains that we use to think and reason with and feel, also produces terrible suffering. So even though God, if he or she exists, could intervene and stop something bad from happening to us, perhaps the gift we were given is the ability to feel what we feel. Do you remember a time when you were in love, or understood something for the first time or accomplished something you felt proud of, or helped somebody?...Would you give up those experiences in exchange for avoiding suffering?

I don't think though that suffering is in itself the worst thing that can happen to a human. There are many people in the world who will never suffer from depression or bipolar or psychosis or anxiety, yet they live their life in such an inhuman way - chasing after meaningless things, lying, cheating, stealing, hurting,...doing whatever they feel they can get away with to acquire stuff that is important to them. Personally I'd rather be by myself, afflicted and in pain like one Psalmist said, than to be like them. People like Kim Jong Il probably have never had many moments of real anxiety or fear or suffering, for any extended period of time in their lives. He has his heel literally on an entire country. He eats gourmet meals every day and gets his choice of women every night. Millions are taught to worship him and give their life for him in a second. In his hands are the fates of all of his people - he prospers who he wants and wipes out by the millions those he doesn't care about. Would you exchange your life for his?

You're not the first person to feel angry at God. For thousands of years religions have evolved out of this paradox of suffering and reward, good and evil.

Psalm 73

A psalm of Asaph.
1 Surely God is good to Israel,
to those who are pure in heart.

2 But as for me, my feet had almost slipped;
I had nearly lost my foothold.
3 For I envied the arrogant
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

4 They have no struggles;
their bodies are healthy and strong.[a]
5 They are free from the burdens common to man;
they are not plagued by human ills.
6 Therefore pride is their necklace;
they clothe themselves with violence.
7 From their callous hearts comes iniquity[b];
the evil conceits of their minds know no limits.
8 They scoff, and speak with malice;
in their arrogance they threaten oppression.
9 Their mouths lay claim to heaven,
and their tongues take possession of the earth.
10 Therefore their people turn to them
and drink up waters in abundance.[c]
11 They say, How can God know?
Does the Most High have knowledge?

12 This is what the wicked are like
always carefree, they increase in wealth.

13 Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure;
in vain have I washed my hands in innocence.
14 All day long I have been plagued;
I have been punished every morning.

15 If I had said, I will speak thus,
I would have betrayed your children.
16 When I tried to understand all this,
it was oppressive to me
17 till I entered the sanctuary of God;
then I understood their final destiny.

18 Surely you place them on slippery ground;
you cast them down to ruin.
19 How suddenly are they destroyed,
completely swept away by terrors!
20 As a dream when one awakes,
so when you arise, O Lord,
you will despise them as fantasies.

21 When my heart was grieved
and my spirit embittered,
22 I was senseless and ignorant;
I was a brute beast before you.

23 Yet I am always with you;
you hold me by my right hand.
24 You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will take me into glory.
25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart
and my portion forever.

27 Those who are far from you will perish;
you destroy all who are unfaithful to you.
28 But as for me, it is good to be near God.
I have made the Sovereign LORD my refuge;
I will tell of all your deeds.

--------------------------------------------------------

1 Then Job replied:
2 If only my anguish could be weighed
and all my misery be placed on the scales!
3 It would surely outweigh the sand of the seas
no wonder my words have been impetuous.
4 The arrows of the Almighty are in me,
my spirit drinks in their poison;
Gods terrors are marshaled against me.
5 Does a wild donkey bray when it has grass,
or an ox bellow when it has fodder?
6 Is tasteless food eaten without salt,
or is there flavor in the white of an egg[a]?
7 I refuse to touch it;
such food makes me ill.

8 Oh, that I might have my request,
that God would grant what I hope for,
9 that God would be willing to crush me,
to let loose his hand and cut me off!
10 Then I would still have this consolation
my joy in unrelenting pain
that I had not denied the words of the Holy One.

11 What strength do I have, that I should still hope?
What prospects, that I should be patient?
12 Do I have the strength of stone?
Is my flesh bronze?
13 Do I have any power to help myself,
now that success has been driven from me?

1 Does not man have hard service on earth?
Are not his days like those of a hired man?
2 Like a slave longing for the evening shadows,
or a hired man waiting eagerly for his wages,
3 so I have been allotted months of futility,
and nights of misery have been assigned to me.
4 When I lie down I think, How long before I get up?
The night drags on, and I toss till dawn.
5 My body is clothed with worms and scabs,
my skin is broken and festering.

6 My days are swifter than a weavers shuttle,
and they come to an end without hope.
7 Remember, O God, that my life is but a breath;
my eyes will never see happiness again.
8 The eye that now sees me will see me no longer;
you will look for me, but I will be no more.
9 As a cloud vanishes and is gone,
so he who goes down to the grave[a] does not return.
10 He will never come to his house again;
his place will know him no more.

11 Therefore I will not keep silent;
I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit,
I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
12 Am I the sea, or the monster of the deep,
that you put me under guard?
13 When I think my bed will comfort me
and my couch will ease my complaint,
14 even then you frighten me with dreams
and terrify me with visions,
15 so that I prefer strangling and death,
rather than this body of mine.
16 I despise my life; I would not live forever.
Let me alone; my days have no meaning.

Ok I could end up posting the whole of Job in response to you so I'll stop. You can read it yourself: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+1&version=NIV1984


C-PTSD: social phobia, major depression, dissociation.
Currently: 450mg amitriptyline single dose at night.
Also: Allegra, 1000mg Vitamin C.
Slowly improving.


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poster:hyperfocus thread:1003076
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20101230/msgs/1003946.html