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Re: Memory Loss ... Disability ... Work

Posted by jrbecker on March 2, 2003, at 14:49:09

In reply to Re: Memory Loss ... Disability ... Work Eilidh, posted by Jumpy on March 2, 2003, at 12:38:02

I'm assuming you have a lot of anxiety issues if you're using both klonopin and the nardil concommitantly. All that GABA [from both the nardil and the klonopin] is what's causing the memory issues.

Is your anxiety just social in nature or is it more pervasive? Secondly, is it more mental anxiety or does it also pertain to physical symptoms (nervousness, sweating, increased BP)? Reason why I'm asking is because if you're also experiencing physical anxiousness as well, then part of your problem is high peripheral adrenalin levels. This can be treated with a beta-blocker or even moderate doses of magnesium and/or omega-3 oils.

to combat the memory issues, you can maybe try the following ...

-use less klonopin dosage during daytime. Add in magnesium or maybe beta-blocker as possible adjunct instead of so much benzo. If I were to suggest a beta-blocker, find one that has some abiity to cross the blood-brain barrier (e.g., atenolol) so that it will also help a little with your mental anxiety. Of course, at the same time, the ones that cross the BBB will cause some memory deficits, but much less than the klonopin. Unfortunately, the beta-blockers' effects aren't as long as benzos, so you might have to have multiple dosages throughout the day (or you can try a suspended release version if you can still find it -- I think inderall is the most popular version of this.]

Another thing you might want to try is adding in some L-Tryptophan or 5HTP in susbstitution for some or all of your benzo. This will basically increase nardil's effect on the serotonergic system. For me, it gives a fairly calming effect. It can make you a little sleepy though, so start low. If you're not into any more pill-popping, then try to increase your complex carbs as much as is reasonalbly possible -- this will hopefully accomplish the same goal. I find that having frequent doses of pastas, grains, and the like keeps me much less prone to not just depression, but also anxiety, than any benzo can accomplish.

Have you tried the fish oil route yet? And if so, how much did you try? Fish oil works pretty well for both my mental and physical anxiety but I find I don't really feel the effects unless I go above 1 g of EPA. The optimal dosage for me anxiety tx is probably around 1.75 g.

Might want to try a memory enhancing substitute like 1) DMAE, 2) ALC, or 3) some choline-type product (cholinergic enhancers can possibly increase anxiety and depression in some, so be cautious.

Lastly, you could maybe try a neurosteroid [but with caution!], such as a low dose of pregnenolone or DHEA. Pregnenolone definitely helps with memory, DHEA to a lesser extent. But here's the catch-22. Pregnenolone also antagonizes GABA, and can increase anxiety {this is all dose-dependent though]. DHEA, once again to a lesser extent, has this problem. Both help to increase the androgens, which will also help with memory, focus, and a little with sex drive as well. "Normal people" also notice a mood lift from this. I myself find this effect very mild though. It does help a lot with stress, in terms of being able to react to it [but that's totally different than helping with anxiety]. If you're going to consider this option, you should start at 2.5 - 5mg daily or every other day. Remember that the neurosteroids are subtle at first and they take 2-3 weeks to take full effect. So start low and monitor your progress.


Don't get me wrong though, klonopin is great. I use it myself sometimes. But it has its downside -- the emotional blunting, it's propensity towards possible dependency (only for some), as well as the obvious memory issues. Moderation is definitely the key I think, especially since you got a pretty hefty bang-for-your-buck already by using the nardil alone for your anxiety.

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the employment issue itself. Good luck

JRB


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poster:jrbecker thread:205164
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030301/msgs/205316.html