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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sunny10 on May 18, 2005, at 12:00:11
In reply to Re: another possible way to handle it » sunny10, posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 10:49:49
first and foremost, you didn't cause any relapses.
You do not have the power to reach your thoughts into their head and move their muscles to bring drink to mouth...
Sorry, but you simply do not have that power...
Another sorry, but the only thing you can do is not enable the behavior. I don't agree that you are the one responsible for whether this person gets help. AuntieMel will be the first to tell you that only that person can get help for themselves.
Me being the person I am, I would tell this person that I will no longer be around to watch them kill themselves and that I will not be there for them until they go get help for themselves. Because in the past I've been a codependent enabler and I refuse to go down that path and hurt myself all over again.
I did what felt right for me after I sat down and wrote out the pros and cons of the current situation and list possible actions on my part and possible outcomes. If you're anything at all like me, you've got a million and one scenarios running around in your head. For me, it turned out to be a list of "If he, then I" scenarios. I had to turn those scenarios around to make them about what would benefit ME- the one that was left that would benefit both of us (painful or not)was the right one for me to choose.
-sunny10
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 12:27:27
In reply to Re: another possible way to handle it » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 18, 2005, at 12:00:11
>>first and foremost, you didn't cause any relapses.
>>You do not have the power to reach your thoughts into their head and move their muscles to bring drink to mouth...
>>Sorry, but you simply do not have that power...
Is that absolutely positively true?
i cant tell you the number of times I have heard I triggered a relapse or made the drinking worse, or that I will trigger the person if i do x,y or z. And this is from other people as well not just the person. I often dont listen and will do or say whatever anyway and often they end up right and I look like I was the cause. i hear what you are saying about the power.im not guilty of enabling anymore, but others absolutely are. this is where all my 'work' gets ruined. I wish it was me doing it cause then maybe things could change. it just feels hopeless. and I am so sad for this person.
Thanks for the support
Posted by sunny10 on May 18, 2005, at 16:51:05
In reply to Re: another possible way to handle it » sunny10, posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 12:27:27
and, yes, it is absolutely, positively true.
Unless you drive a car over someone, or in some other way take an ACTION that physically harms another human being, you are not the cause of them being hurt.
Them's fightin' words here at Babble sometimes, but it's true.
You can say anything you like to me- I'm the one who needs to choose how I will respond to what you say or think about me. And that will, knowing me, entirely depend upon how I am feeling at that given moment about many other things. You don't have the power to hurt me emotionally- only I do.
You can calculately, mean-spiritedly, choose a time to pick on me when you can tell I am already down, and I will hurt more, but you can not bring me down emotionally unless I let you.
By the same token, no matter what you say or what you don't say, how you act, react or refuse to act or react, has no bearing ultimately on what another person chooses to do. Drink, do drugs, engage in violent behavior, whatever. Only we have the power to make choices for us. We can HAND over the power (dependency and co-dependency) in our MINDS, but not in reality.
As a former co-dependent, I have learned these difficult lessons. A lot of them didn't make me feel too highly about myself for a while, but then I realized that I can't change what has already passed. I could only choose to change how I act, react, et cetera, in the present and in the future. Oh, yeah, and not emotionally hand my life over to someone I "love" on a silver platter to allow them to abuse me in any way they see fit...
These were my lessons. If parts of them feel familiar and you can incorporate them to help you in your situation, please do. If not, then thanks for reading what I've learned.
-sunny10
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 11:32:31
In reply to Re: you're welcome to any support I can give » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 18, 2005, at 16:51:05
Thanks! Some of that might possibly be vaguely familiar. i wish I could spread these words around the situation and people involved. Well maybe I can.
Posted by sunny10 on May 19, 2005, at 11:46:28
In reply to Re: you're welcome to any support I can give » sunny10, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 11:32:31
how others react to you is their issue...(smile)
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 11:53:50
In reply to Re: as I said you CAN do whatever you like, posted by sunny10 on May 19, 2005, at 11:46:28
haha got it :-) Youre good!
grrr this is so frustrating!!
Posted by sunny10 on May 19, 2005, at 12:12:52
In reply to Re: as I said you CAN do whatever you like » sunny10, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 11:53:50
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 18:33:03
In reply to Re: no denying it's frustrating!!! (nm) » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 19, 2005, at 12:12:52
Ok so i have recieved 5 phone calls in 1 hour. The first sounded ok and then it quickly deteriorated until there was such a drawl from slurring that I could barely make out the words. After the 2nd call i have not picked up. Im ignoring....they are out and I am the person of choice tonight, so is this what I should be doing? I guess after the first call would haev been ideal.
Thanks
Posted by sunny10 on May 20, 2005, at 13:53:59
In reply to am i doing this right??, posted by rainbowbrite on May 19, 2005, at 18:33:03
IN MY OPINION---
you are only doing it right if you've already had the conversation where you TOLD THEM that you would be ignoring them until they go get help...And talking to them while they are temporarily sober is not the answer, either. You are rewarding them for "not drinking right now" instead of taking a stance that you will not be there for them until they get professional help to stop drinking at all. The only way to not enable at this point is to not be involved until they agree to get help. If they want a ride to the clinic, yes, please, by all means give them a ride.... Matter of fact, having gone through this before myself , I told my "them" to call me for the ride when they were ready to go- otherwise I wouldn't speak to them at all. That was when I put my foot down- of course, it was academic because this was at the intervention, but the offer of a ride was accepted and appreciated (later!)...They won't understand the statement that you are trying to make unless you actually make the statement!!!
It's the open communication that is the key. "Isms" like to hide...it is harder on the ism when things are out in the open...
Posted by AuntieMel on May 20, 2005, at 14:01:46
In reply to Re: another possible way to handle it » sunny10, posted by rainbowbrite on May 18, 2005, at 12:27:27
Sunny is right - you can't cause a relapse. However you can be used as an *excuse* for relapsing, like one is needed.
The only way for you to cause a relapse would be for you to tie the person down, open their mouth and pour the booze in.
If a person wants to use bad enough he'll get the drug. You could tie him to your leg, stay tied all day long and then turn around and - how did that happen?
One of our counselors told us that recovering addicts are the future CEOs of the world - we're smart, cunning, personable enough to look trustworthy - etc.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 21, 2005, at 7:48:19
In reply to Re: another possible way to handle it, posted by AuntieMel on May 20, 2005, at 14:01:46
that makes sense.
I have said that I will ignore before but then time goes by and words fade. I need to work on that becasue if I stuck to everything that I have ever said to this person, I should never see them again. Now the good thing is that I say it mosly when they are drunk so it probably doesnt soak in.Consistency is important. Im going to take a new approach to this mess and see how it goes.
techniquely I guess it is my responsibility how 'I' react to this person and how I feel in response. They cant make me feel, although the way they act is pretty powerful.
Posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 11:49:29
In reply to thanks guys, posted by rainbowbrite on May 21, 2005, at 7:48:19
I have trouble creating boundaries and keeping myself to them. I have been utilizing my new T and folks here on Babble to help me stick with a boundary I've made about my SO...
If you have the same trouble, feel free to post to me instead of breaking down and talking to your addict, okay?
If I remember correctly, my ex-husband used to call me just to piss me off so that I would call him back... if your addict does the same, don't fall for it! I did- many times until having a conversation with someone who was an AA sponsor.
Write here instead and pretend to be yelling at them... I wish I had known about Babble when I went through this before. And AuntieMel has been a source of inspiration for me in dealing with my SO now.
You have a resource- utilize us!!! And you are helping me stay firm just by having the chance to write out to you what AuntieMel explained to ME! Babble is a wonderful resource.
Keep us posted, at least- just want to know that you're okay!
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 22:54:19
In reply to Re: willing to be your silence sponsor... » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 11:49:29
Thanks sunny that meant alot.
Things got bad and well, I think we now have the situation contained. For a few days at least anyway. Aggressive measures were taken. I am waiting to hear if everything goes smoothly but I am so glad for once not to be taking part in the physical process of getting this person help. I hope it lasts, I really really hope so.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:10:11
In reply to Re: willing to be your silence sponsor... » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 23, 2005, at 11:49:29
I am so run down, but sick of this whole thing too. And i am having a really really hard time buying that it is my fault that I feel like this. is it really my fault for letting myself feel like this or is it partly this persons responsibility? I know we are responsible for ourselves but??
I am also just worried that this new step in getting help that is in the works is actually going to backfire. but I know I need to be positive about it.
Posted by sunny10 on May 24, 2005, at 8:42:52
In reply to Re: willing to be your silence sponsor..., posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:10:11
what will happen with them depends on them, but it is important that you keep YOU on the top of your list of priorities.
It is easy to let these situations overwhelm us.
I feel extremely overwhelmed myself at the moment. But I am keeping in mind that at the end of the day, it is MY head that I put on the pillow and that it needs to be clear enough at least to sleep. And I'm not saying that I'm doing a spectacular JOB of sleeping these days, but at least I know that I have to focus on me right now or nothing will ever feel better.
We'll clear our minds together... ready? set? Ohmmmmmmmmmmm...
Posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2005, at 12:54:46
In reply to Re: willing to be your silence sponsor..., posted by rainbowbrite on May 23, 2005, at 23:10:11
You are indeed the one responsible for how you feel.
long term.
But in the short term, you can't help but respond to the things around you. Give yourself a rest. It's been a hard time for you.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 25, 2005, at 10:44:30
In reply to Re: just be ok for yourself » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 24, 2005, at 8:42:52
>>I feel extremely overwhelmed myself at the moment. But I am keeping in mind that at the end of the day, it is MY head that I put on the pillow and that it needs to be clear enough at least to sleep. And I'm not saying that I'm doing a spectacular JOB of sleeping these days, but at least I know that I have to focus on me right now or nothing will ever feel better.
>>We'll clear our minds together... ready? set? Ohmmmmmmmmmmm...
Very true!
Sleep? I forgot what that was for a second. :-)OK Here I go Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! Oh wait I need to do that again Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!! I did it for you too.
:-)
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 25, 2005, at 10:48:37
In reply to Re: feelings » rainbowbrite, posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2005, at 12:54:46
I am trying hard not to focus on it and let it affect me. I guess I should soak in the silence while I can. Otherwise Im no use to anyone in the situation.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 28, 2005, at 14:31:45
In reply to Re: feelings » AuntieMel, posted by rainbowbrite on May 25, 2005, at 10:48:37
I dont really believe in miracles and maybe because one of the closest things to a miracle has just happened to me I am now questioning it.
But I feel so relieved that certain other people FINALLY got involved in this 'problem' and that at the moment I am not having to hit my head against denser heads to be heard properly. Or feel lik eIm in constant worry that something bad is going to happen all the time (hopefully this will last). Im trying to be ultra positive and hope for the best, maybe things CAN really change. I hope so. I hope Im not being too positive since it is still pretty early...who knows. But I feel so relieved right now and it just came out of no where, sort of like reaching out here about this issue caused a good thing to happen (OK i dont believe in that stuff but the positive turn things have taken is so strange!)
It also feels so weird not to have a constant heavy worry on my shoulders because of this person, I am actually having to get used to it.
Posted by sunny10 on May 31, 2005, at 8:18:44
In reply to Just wanted to share this, posted by rainbowbrite on May 28, 2005, at 14:31:45
yes, sometimes the relief of being believed by others is overwhelming...shifting the load for others to help you carry it is nerve-wracking at times.
Plus, if you ARE co-dependent like me, you have to deal with the fact that "your job" is over...You need to find a new way to show love and support. It's a difficult time for you as well. (And if you're not like me, change always takes a little getting used to; even when it's change for the better...)
Best of luck- keep us posted.
-sunny10
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 1, 2005, at 16:42:01
In reply to Re: Just wanted to share this » rainbowbrite, posted by sunny10 on May 31, 2005, at 8:18:44
hi sunny,
I would have normally said right away I am not co-dependent BUT I am now wondering. What defines a person as co-dependent?I may just be a control freak...Im not really co-dependent with the person in question Im almost positive on that but its with anohter peson involved Im wondering about.
It is so much easier now not worrying but there is an empty feeling, like where are the phone calls and when will I get 'the phone call' but I dont think that at all anymore. It is such a strange feeling. Good, but different. I was always brainstorming about what to do and now I dont have to do anything but focus on me. Ick! Maybe all these years of focussing on someone else has prevented me from focussing on me and taking responsibility of 'my' life. So.... do I sound co-dependent :-)?
rain
Posted by TamaraJ on June 1, 2005, at 16:53:07
In reply to Re: Just wanted to share this, posted by rainbowbrite on June 1, 2005, at 16:42:01
Hi Rain,
Here is a list of characteristics of a co-dependent and a list of questions to help a person determine whether they are co-dependent, for your information.
Characteristics of Co-Dependent People Are:
An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.
A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue.
A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time.
A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts.
An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.
An extreme need for approval and recognition.
A sense of guilt when asserting themselves.
A compelling need to control others.
Lack of trust in self and/or others.
Fear of being abandoned or alone.
Difficulty identifying feelings.
Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change.
Problems with intimacy/boundaries.
Chronic anger.
Lying/dishonesty.
Poor communications
Difficulty making decisions.Questionnaire To Identify Signs Of Co-Dependency
This condition appears to run in different degrees, whereby the intensity of symptoms are on a spectrum of severity, as opposed to an all or nothing scale. Please note that only a qualified professional can make a diagnosis of co-dependency; not everyone experiencing these symptoms suffers from co-dependency.1. Do you keep quiet to avoid arguments?
2. Are you always worried about others’ opinions of you?
3. Have you ever lived with someone with an alcohol or drug problem?
4. Have you ever lived with someone who hits or belittles you?
5. Are the opinions of others more important than your own?
6. Do you have difficulty adjusting to changes at work or home?
7. Do you feel rejected when significant others spend time with friends?
8. Do you doubt your ability to be who you want to be?
9. Are you uncomfortable expressing your true feelings to others?
10. Have you ever felt inadequate?
11. Do you feel like a “bad person” when you make a mistake?
12. Do you have difficulty taking compliments or gifts?
13. Do you feel humiliation when your child or spouse makes a mistake?
14. Do you think people in your life would go downhill without your constant efforts?
15. Do you frequently wish someone could help you get things done?
16. Do you have difficulty talking to people in authority, such as the police or your boss?
17. Are you confused about who you are or where you are going with your life?
18. Do you have trouble saying “no” when asked for help?
19. Do you have trouble asking for help?
20. Do you have so many things going at once that you can’t do justice to any of them?If you identify with several of these symptoms; are dissatisfied with yourself or your relationships; you should consider seeking professional help. Arrange for a diagnostic evaluation with a licensed physician or psychologist experienced in treating co-dependency.
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 1, 2005, at 17:29:24
In reply to Re: Just wanted to share this » rainbowbrite, posted by TamaraJ on June 1, 2005, at 16:53:07
I think I may not be :-)
Posted by rainbowbrite on June 5, 2005, at 14:47:22
In reply to Thanks Tamara :-), posted by rainbowbrite on June 1, 2005, at 17:29:24
for this person liver :-( All back to the way it was before in a matter of hours.
Posted by sunny10 on June 10, 2005, at 10:21:43
In reply to things last only so long...too bad and too bad, posted by rainbowbrite on June 5, 2005, at 14:47:22
I'm so sorry to hear this, 'brite.
And sorry I wasn't here for you.
I hope you are doing well and I'm GLAD that you didn't see yourself in Tamara's list !
Unfortunately, I am almost ALL of them...sigh...
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