Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1100843

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Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:37:37

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:25:11

and partly it is about how people choose to weild power.

i guess we were supposed to outgrow, here.

like aa and na. when all goes well you outgrow them.

why would you keep coming back to a site that is about mental health support? do you still need support for your mental health, after all these years?

i need a way of processing and working through and there is nobody for me to talk to in this country because everyone here has an interest in keeping me powerless and weak and sick. because this is how this country prefers to keep me.

the money thing... i still don't get it. the government prints off a pile of money and calls it 'gdp'. then it distributes it to the people in various ways, for them to give to each other in exchange for goods and services. and there is some centralisation of this which makes it possible for people to travel overseas and use money... exchange rates... and of course they don't need to print off money (that costs money haha) it is just a bunch of numbers that are viewable on a website momentarily... and funds transfers go through at point of sale which allows purchase... or not.

and the government thought that instead of going from secondary school to jobs it would be better if people went from secondary school to university. and people's bank accounts would grow in the + direction they would grow in the - direction (as people would live off of loans instead off of earnings). and people wouldn't get paid for doing jobs that involved pushing paper around, rather they would become endebted for doing jobs that involved pushing paper around.

we don't want people working towards carrots, we want people working to flee sticks. or something.

none of this makes any sense, at all, to me.

except that if you want your kid to have a chance of a good life... well... i guess it is cambridge curriculum for high school and try for university scholarship overseas. because here... they don't even pretend to grade things fairly (rewarding quality or rewarding volume of information accurately recalled)... there is no encouraging (or even allowing) good work, here.

just a bunch of people playing some awful game of warily eyeing one another and a basic inability to grasp anything of value and work towards the pursuit of that. just a frantic flurry of undermining any glimmer of that in others. at which point they get to go 'see! see! see! we were right!'

what did the public health people... the surgeon general and all that... what did the people put in our water?

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:56:07

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:37:37

and this place is a commons... tragedy of...

it was about the balance / distribution of power.

i guess it is a development thing.

to start out... you need your mother, or whatever. you are not able to have your needs met and you need someone else to provide for you.

but then you start to grow and develop, in response to that nourishment. you start to do more and more of those things for yourself.

and eventually you have grown and developed to the point where you can look after yourself better than anybody else can look after you. you have this privaledged access to your body (and it's physiological needs) because you are attached to it, rather. It lets you know what's up.

But there is still something about the balance / distribution of power. Where it is helpful to have some kind of imput or weighing in from another. Another who has your best interest behind the reccommendation. Whether that be a family who genuinely loves you. A financial advisor acting from genuine fiduciary duty. A consultant... Consultation... Informed consent. Morality. People get it. People have an interest in exploiting it. People have an interest in having children to hold them up as hostages to try and get their own needs met. People have an interest in breeding a colony of worker-people or slaves.

And this site... Got lost in the transition of power. The Oligarchy phase. Because the people in the oligarchy wanted more power still...

And of course the real killer was the development of an infrastructure that promised (seemed to provide) complete control for the individual user.

You don't want to read x's posts - you can make it so they will not appear for you!

You don't want y to read your posts - you can make it so your posts will not appear for y!

You want to rewrite history (edit / revise / delete) your post posts? Okay.

Complete user control.

People wanted to be in control of their own site. Wanted it to feel that way. That was what facebook or whatever seemed to provide. That here... Would not.

It's a developmental thing...

I'm still here because I live in a commons of a country... The whole country here is tragey of commons. Failure of organisation.

Bob was a great man who held things together here for quite some time. So very many people. For quite some time. Fairly much single-handedly. I think he probably did make mistakes and eventually the whole thing got to be too much for him. I suppose people got blocked because... He couldn't handle them. He couldn't deal with them. Or maybe he thought this site was bad for them / holding them back from developing IRL... I don't know...

Point is that I feel like here showed me something of looking out for other people putting their interests first. Because ones own are adequately taken care of. That's what makes that possible. But something like that.

Because like the little girl in teh supermarket who was able to be helpful because she was able to stand and wait while I figured what would be useful and she was able to listen and follow instructions because she could see that all that was what was actually needed... And there was a rightness and flow about it all. There was osmething of that to here... And it helps me feel less crazy. Becuase here so much in my life here in this world irl I dont see anything of this. I just see people puffing out their chests and petty squabbles. No.. self reflection. no personal development or growth.

I saw some very fine minds in philosophy but I wondered why they didn't put their minds to trying to solve some of the hardest problems... I see now they were just struggling to stay afloat... I don't know. Why can't we listen to people when it comes to what they think is good for them? Why we gotta control them differently?

I guess that is what Bob represents for most people and that is why most people left. The promise of greater control over on facebook or whatever.

But who am I going to talk to over on facebook or whatever? Those same people who irl are happy to see me weak and powerless and grovelling to not be failed just beause the people in charge of me have the power and get a kick out of abusing it?

I don't know. I suspect it's the medium here. Writing. I used to journal irl oh yes I did.

Why not just journal for myself personally then?

Becuase every so rareely... Occasionally... Someone somewhere asks a question or makes a comment or something... And I'm infinitely better because of it. SOmething to remind me of I'm not alone. And I'm so much the better for that.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:08:28

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:56:07

and the anonymity, the illusion of it. the removal from everyday life. if i'm talking to the people in my real world life they have an interest in keeping me weak and powerless so they can puff out their own chests and feel powerful and rich. these aren't people who have chosen to help me grow and develop. these aren't people who have my interests at heart. and i do what i can to minimse the amount of time i spend with these people, becuase these people are not good for me. i know that. and they know that.

why haven't i found people who would be good for me? i actually suspect it is largely because of the aforemnetioned people who have more of an interest in keeping me away from the people who would be good for me. more of an interest in keeping me kicked back and weak...

i don't really want these people who i know (who i know of) irl to be stabotaging things for me left right and centre. only... pretty sure that's what they have been...

i met people on these boards who didn't have vested interest in things being worse for me irl.

i felt genuinely cared about here, for a time. i genuinely cared about others on these boards... i learned to care for other people, here. and care for myself. come to recognise irl for the toxic situation that it is / was.

i do want to help people and i genuinely wouldn't treat others as badly as others have treated me. i am different from them and that is why i deserve to have more than them in life. i mean... when it is crunch time and power against power the power that is responsive to reason and the power that has the empathic capacity to see...

i don't know.

i'm tired of being disabled by here. this horrible country with the horrible people in charge of it in teh 'easiest economy in the world in which to do business' which only means it's impossible to trade, here. it's a country of... uncivilised psychopaths.

only... what you gonna do about it? The energy and effort and time that is required to be invested in putting the intersets of others ahead of your own... what kind of a return are you likely to get on that, here?

this whole place just doesn't make any sense.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:17:36

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:08:28

i guess it is because of where it is geographically in the world.

i read something (reputable) about how we like to look at china and india and so on and call them 'developing' and proclaim outself 'developed'. only, china and india and so on have been (dodgey stats, probably, but lets's see them) doing significantly better than us.

they are more developed than we are.

this country really has been going backwards / downhill.

there is stuff on 'brain drain' from developing to developed. the idea is that the developing invests in training to try and have a skilled workforce but the people take their training and bugger off to the already developed nations and work there.

our solution to the 'brain drain' was not to figure out how to have our skilled workforce contribute more to making this place better for us all. rather, our solution to the 'brain drain' was to stop training our people to become skilled. that way no other country will want them and they will be forced to say here - you see? only... now we don't have people with skills for medicine or law or engineering... actuary science... finance... all kinds of things... we just don't have.

we have become, basically, a detention facility off the coast of australia. a holding pen for people trying to come out of india or china or wherever. tracking / surveillance is such a big deal here because the US, Australia, Canada, the UK can collect all the data it needs on whether the skilled professionals really are... Professional. Or whether they will be forever doomed to join the ruling classes here... To rule the commons...

I'm frustrated because I am sick and f*ck*ng tired of being kicked at here, by these awful people in charge of the lowest levels who will not let me get started on anything...

I'd rather be dead than join them. That's not depression... That's...

Dignity.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:37:11

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:17:36

see, once you have identified that which is theraputic about the internet...

then a bunch of people have an interest in undermining what is theraputic about it.

because you have people whose life strategy is to prey upon the weak and they have an interest in keeping people weak and sick and so on.

i think that is probably the pattern, over and over. you want to be part of something that is lesser known and on the up. you want to get out of it before it hits it's peak. it's only downhill from there.

i've been part of a couple things when they were on the up. here was one of them.

i'm not here so much from reminiscence... clinging to some (false) ideal about the way things used to be...

i'm here partly trying to understand what it was about both of those projects that made them on the up... what happened with respect to the peak... so i can use this going into the future with respect to figuring out what i'm going to do.

since returning to nz i haven't found anything on the up. i haven't found anything to invest in...

training programs i see hit a one person bottleneck and that one person will only advance people who... are either psychopathic (have the ability to display one face to the other while having another behind closed doors) or are genuinely blind / unable to see that which cannot be expressed (becuase that one person is hired precisely to fail that when seen).

i don't know how much it's market forces vs invisible hand guiding this country is worse directions.

i imagine our 'allies' have 'interests' in keeping us a detention facility for themselves...

but i imagine our 'allies' also do have 'interests' in having us develop into better trading partners with actual stuff of merit / value to bring to the freaking table, for a change.

anyway.. fingers crossed i get to get started... i know i'll have to be pretty pro-active with respect to getting and keeping things lined up... because the district health boards have more an interest in keeping people incompetent and cheap and labouring for hours and hours and hours and hours just because... hell, why not? why not take $600,000 for yourself (just because you can) and make everyone elses life a living hell (just because you can) work hard to undermine the public sector (just because you can) to promote the private industry (you chose to invest all that public money in).

i think you gotta do a couple years with a dhb... i'll take a look. pretty sure you can apply for some kind of refugee thing to australia... work hard... head down... get out as soon as you can. people here *prefer* to live this way. they would rather have a colony of slaves to lord over. they see they would not be given such opportunity in life any other developed nation in the world. this is the country that they made.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 0:09:21

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:37:11

and I guess I start to see *why* it's largely about doing this and then that and then the next thing. getting the things ticked off. because the ability to get on and do the things is that f*ck*ng rare. people, for the most part, simply will not / simply cannot.

in the public sector you got all these open plan spaces and they are basically creches for adults. so they can get all up in everyones business and so on... the whole 9-5 thing so that domestic violence is a little less. the whole hard physical labour thing so that domestic violence is a little less. the whole... artificial facade of too many people too many people too many people to try and get people keeping their heads down and huddling with their herds...

so that things are... civilised and pleasant. for... uh... for...

a quiet few who get things done. for the good of.... as many as possible? as greater proportion as possible?

to try and have as many *believe* they've truly made it in life. advisor to the advisor of the big chief boss of that... filling up the empty hotel rooms and flights... pushing their papers...

it's such an empty facade.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:39:04

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 0:09:21

and i suspect it is an illusion. the whole one-man thing.

i suspect it was more about internet promotions. part of the whole 'how do we get the buy-in' problem. how do we get people to pay $1,000 or so for their very own personal surveillance device that they are sufficiently 'addicted' to (shall we say) such that they stay within their arms reach 24/7? quite the problem. but it has been solved - yes?

i know i will stop posting here.

i was asked at my interview, a while back, now, what 2 things were that i would invest in. i nominated 2 things. and in the last 10 years i have seen people invest in those things (or things in their proximity) enough to make money off of it while simulteneously undermining what it was about those things that made them worthy of investing in.

one of them was the theraputic potential of the internet. which has been ruined by (cr(apps)). more to the point ruined by much taxpayers money being diverted to their development -- which has basically meant a chunk of money being gifted to people who did not develop a workable app, at the end of the day.

the other of them was this youth centre run by a particular figure, again.

and that makes 3 enterprises i've seen on the up...

they were getting some meaningful life changes for these kids. and now there is a hub here, a hub there, a hub every f*ck*ng where. they are talking about non birthing unit maternity hubs, now. basically... you know... an empty room that we write 'medical clinic' on the side of it only... there's nobody home.

you do have people who will only be the sole provider. who will not allow others to bring anything to the table. those are the people in charge of here. say you depose them. then what will happen? others will only rise up to take their place. aren't there any people who are different? Who are willing to do things differently? the former have invested in their not being. so...

i know you are supposed to keep your head down and your mouth shut and bide your time... wait for your opportunity...

but that's there strategy.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:51:54

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:39:04

I mean, what are you going to do?

3rd year physiology. you have to participate in these 3 hour lab things where you get to (have to) operate on a live sheep which involves trying to kill it, for the sake of trying to revive it's heart with adrenalin.

2nd year physiology. where you have to write up this laboratory on the dive reflex -- only the laboratory set-up doesn't actually allow us to test the dive reflex. because the dive reflex was a physiological response that kicks into people when people have their faces submerged in water and they do not breathe for... i don't remember how long... but it was quite some time... it was time enough for their body to do a 'i am going to die' shutting down response so the heart rate drops... in the lab we weren't going to play 'soldier (or perhaps jewish prisoner) has been dropped in the water! how long we got!' so we changed the experiment so it involved only 30 second breath hold. which, of course, isn't long enough for bradychardia. so we redefined bradychardia so that we managed to produce a dive reflex!

at least, that's how we were supposed to write it up. if we wanted to pass. our data found evidence of the dive reflex, you see.

never mind mark houser or whatever... nevermind falsifying data or lying about what you did... you do what you are told when you are told because you are told if you want to pass physiology.

only... if that's what it takes to pass physiology -- i don't want to pass physiology. anything that requires any of that... just ain't worth doing. any grade from the person who has co-ordinated all of that... just ain't worth earning.

don't get me started on other degrees.

the solution is supposed to be to huddle with the herd. just write what everyone else writes. we don't have a group plagarism thing for science. you go along to the person in charge and you play dumb and say you don't know what to say / what to write and they tell you and you write them down verbatim.

that's basically it: you write them down, verbatim. the people in charge.

then i guess you are left with: and what is it that they are teaching you? anything worth knowing?

does it have the potential to help things better or worse or much the same?

i am tired of being treated like an idiot.
shushed in seminars.
and so on.

what would the world really have gained by employing me as a philosopher?

happy vibes they prevented me from doing what it was that i actually wanted to do... to try and help make things better for us all...

because people can't see beyond their own little pocket.

i am done talking. and... everything. this year...

there is no way around: i did everything in my power. and have had it beyond everything. the complete and utter sh*t hole garbage heap of here. i have been saying it for years... wasting my life... because other people are too f*ck*ng stupid to have things any other way.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:00:15

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:51:54

and actually, that's not even it. they got me being philosopher.

what they never did do, was get around to paying me. for any of it.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:01:57

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:00:15

because they decided to give the money to people who need to control others.

making this country better, you see. like that.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 22:29:24

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:01:57

because i did do the work.
i did my 6 month review (at the 12 month mark - along with my cohort).
i did my mid-term.

my supervisor refused to acknowledge it *as* my review, and *as* my mid-term. he kept saying it wasn't good enough, or it wasn't of the right format, or...

and i was supposed to stand up to him. only... i didn't want to play that awful game. i didn't realise he was playing an awful game. i didn't realise he was being horrible to me becuase he thought it was somehow his job to be horrible to me. some hazing or right of passage or i don't know. and i don't much care.

i wanted to do philosophy because i was intellectually curious about things and i wanted to learn about things. but i seemed to be learning that mostly i wasn't being taught anything i actually had come to want to learn about. so... i pursued learning about the things i wanted to learn about.

and here we are.

there was this whole thing about kids and then being expected to earn your keep or bring something to the table.

but lets remember the whole government distribution system (not talking about taxes talking about gross earnings)...

why is it in the nations interests to keep their people weak and powerless and uneducated and sick and... awful.

most especially when the people have intrinsic desire / capacity to contribute towards the development of... more than that.

?

idle

why keep the people idle?

i guess people are still riding the wave of the financial crisis. it was predictably late hitting these shores... or something. i don't know.

beam me up

i guess the bottleneck thing is mostly to teach people to get the hell out of academia. universities. to get people looking into private sector. seeing the psychopaths the universities hail as mighty leaders and all that. it's not about the best grades. i got the best grades before and where did that get me? i was supposed to take my place as bottleneck for students with capacity for more. i was supposed to take my public sector job (i can't believe they pay me so much for doing so little). (i can't believe they give me a job doing x when i'm incompetent at x and not doing y when i'm competetent at y).

all this is because i haveh to revise and resubmit.

clearly.

i hate philosophy

 

Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k

Posted by Clearskies on September 23, 2018, at 22:31:58

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 22:29:24

You used to post quite a bit about philosophy.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 0:50:30

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k, posted by Clearskies on September 23, 2018, at 22:31:58

(((cs)))

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:21:22

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 0:50:30

yeah. it used to be my form of therapy. because there wasn't any other.

but i've come to see the problem really isn't with me. it is a poor person-environment fit kind of a thing.

i studied philosophy because i genuinely was interested in it. but it turns out other people studied philosophy not becuase they were genuinely interested in it, but becuase it was the only thing they did well in (or similar). and then they were incentivised to ruin the whole thing for everyone. or similar.

 

Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k

Posted by Clearskies on September 24, 2018, at 1:23:29

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:21:22

> yeah. it used to be my form of therapy. because there wasn't any other.
>
> but i've come to see the problem really isn't with me. it is a poor person-environment fit kind of a thing.
>
> i studied philosophy because i genuinely was interested in it. but it turns out other people studied philosophy not becuase they were genuinely interested in it, but becuase it was the only thing they did well in (or similar). and then they were incentivised to ruin the whole thing for everyone. or similar.
>
>
Yes, indeed. I saw this when my then step son majored in philosophy. He switched to seminary school and actually learned how to count the number of angels on the head of a pin.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:28:30

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:21:22

nobody would teach me anything, but philsophy was a thing that didn't require anybody to teach me, particularly. read the stuff... write about the stuff...

i don't know.

you got these people over in English who 10 or 20 years later are still working on stuff they did their PhD on. or not working at all. like... like they haven't read anything since.

whatever it is that got them working has gone away and they just don't do that, anymore.

it just gets to a point where people are all 'rubbish rubbish rubbish' at each other and meaningful activity ceases.

they do pay them.

then, i guess, you go: and what do they do with their money?

i mean... i think they can take uni courses for free? one per semester, or something? they could do a whole degree in 10 years! in something entirely different! in computer science or statistics or....

but they don't.

money seems to be the greatest de-incentiviser of all. give people money and watch them idle their lives away.

i wonder if that is always the case.

money. the great... neutraliser. nuterer. steraliser.

probably it is just the illusion of money.

at hte end of the day it's about workign conditions, i would have thought.

it's funny isn't it how people often choose to pay for living conditions which are not conducive for tehm to work.

i guess they need a lord and master... while beleving themselves to be god.

f*ck knows.

i should just remember '[this city] is sh*t'. that's the received wisdom. training ground for the UK. that's all.

i wonder if i'll get to go to edinburgh one day. the uk... i would like that.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:49:09

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k, posted by Clearskies on September 24, 2018, at 1:23:29

seminary school, hmm.

theology can be interesting. the stories we tell people. the buy-in. how we can get people to behave with the buy-in.

i've been thinking about churches (the physical buildings as warehouses) as insurance companies. the start of that. social insurance. the person in charge of the church gets to decide who is a worthy welfare recipient in times of need and how much of the pot they should get. how to spend those tithes. for the good of the congregation, of course.

my grandfather was a minister. they sent him up north and he wasn't able to arrange meaningful activity, i don't think. the guy after him did a little better, from what i could figure. got the people to work on / develop the church, it seemed. his house. i think that is the idea? his house with a large living room sort of an area for people to come into the warm on sundays... his house with the food store in the basement.. gods house... his house... so confusing...

rules of morality.... or civility (as the case may be) haha. and of course who gets to decide... a group of elders...

oen of the churches is handing over a residential hall to the university. apparently they can't manage it. they had a bout of GI out of the kitchens last year. sounds like biological warfare to me. or maybe just genuine not able to manage the cleaners... i don't know.

last rites.... first rites. births and deaths. i guess churches are... demise.. yeah.

universities. not as higher learning, anymore. the aspirational the ideal has gone out of them too.

the buy in. to try and inspire people to work towards a lofty ideal for the good of us all. one that is only attainable if we buy in.

be the change you wish to see...

all that. i guess it's the same story over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

becuase that's how many times it seems to need to be said.

i do think that htings are genuinely worse. but i suppose it is possible that i am growing up... and seeing things differently. i suppose it was possible that i was far more naieve before.

it is also possible that there is something...

there was this incident a while back. the government has been contracting out management of our prisons to foreign companies, as you do, so if people outside the prisons hear of atrocities being committed inside the prisons (as they will because people will deliver those surveillance devices to prisoners, of course) then the government has this plausible deniability sort of a thing it can do.

and so some of the prisoners uploaded videos of them street (or prison i guess) fighting / brawling withotu any supervision in this big warehouse type of a room. uploaded to youtube or similar. and of cousre the government had to provide some sort of a statement of how these people in a nz prison were fighting like that and uploading footage to youtube.

and they gave this maaori minister guy air time to try and justify it from the government point of view. and he did such a bad job of it. i mean... i saw, instantly, why they have people who just spout nonsense garbage. this guy couldn't look to the camera and spout nonsense garbage - which was the game of politics. because, of course, there is no justification for what happened. it's not acceptable. and the government does not have plausible deniability. it just doesn't.

but there was something deeply disturbing at this guy sort of trying to play politics but clearly not having any idea of what the game was that he was supposed tobe playing even. and it made his presence there... though also the whole idea of government... the whole thing... was just so clearly and obviously farcical. just a complete and utter facade of anything... there's nobody home.

the problem with teh churches was sex abuse of women and children. that came to bite them. people have lost confidence in the churches.

i think about the buhhdist (i think they were) monestaries. as schools of higher learning. mendel... and his pea plants. the... aesthetic life.... esoteric... i don't know. i think about the robes of scholarship that were supposed to be a.... out... of the traditoinal class thing. orphans that were raised by the monks and taught how to read and translate texts, or whatever. guardians of the knowledge...

but then it was the place to send the second son because the first inherited the estate. and course it is expedient to have an ideal... a story... a narrative of how the kid was chosen by god becuase of being ill early on...

and the interest people have in constructing false ideals to get people to work towards something that is for the good of: only them.

and perhaps people are delusional and lose sight of good for who.

i suspect that is it. when it is for the good of you it is easier to tell yourself lit is for the good of all.

i suspect there is an element of that.

hard to know when to hold fast and when to listen to other people and adopt self-doubt.

bob's virtue was that he was a rock. but of course that was also his vice and his ultimate downfall. so... the whole thing was inevitable, really. and expedient from teh perspective of public health or whatever. surveillance devices in tooth implants and the like are years away... internet buy-in and i-phones are for today...

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:10:37

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:49:09

because his defence was to try and mutter something about 'culturally appropriate'.

and i saw...

you have some elite maaori who are willing to screw over their own people, if it is to their advantage. we gotta remember that there never was any unified maori - there were a bunch of tribes at war with one another. and... an aspect or element of that remains.

it's a maori issue because most of the guys in the prison appeared maaori. there is this whole thing where individual prison cells (where they have bunk mates so maybe 2 to a cell) is more expensive than big warehouse rooms, you see. like free range chickens, we tell ourselves. it isn't culturally appropriate to give people individual privacy / a place away from another who enjoys abusing them. we tell ourselves.

the government chose to give the contract to an overseas company. the government chose not to look into the particulars of that contract. the government chose not to look into whether it was actually feasible to provide humane facilities and services for the price that was quoted. the government chose to spend how much on politicians salaries, again, instead of going their f*ck*ng job of looking after their people.

and i guess the buffoon on tv was... what... some reminder of how the government chooses to distribute it's money. they decided to employ him to do his job instead of paying whoever was supposed to look after the prisoners enough for them to do their job properly.

sigh.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:21:14

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:10:37

because people won't stand up and say 'i can't do it for that'.
and becuase people aren't smart enough to look into the particulars and call them on their b*llsh*t. instead they give the contract to the cheapest bidder.
and at some point during the rebuild the work stops and we are told 'unexpected' something has arisen and the government needs to hand over this or that or the next non-trivial sum for the work to resume.

i've been trying to understand how natural disaster (ahem ahem) is good for insurance companies who have to pay out.

apparently it isn't about the paying out. they cry broke! and the government is forced(?) to give them bail outs... handing over... handing over...

money...

so the insurance companies can manage / distribute things with respect to the rebuild. it's the rebuild where things are at.

huh.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:38:40

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:21:14

apparently it is something to do with the environment being temperate (by world standards). people weren't forced to work together to survive the winter. people could get by more opportunistically foraging and hunting without much organisation or planning. without much of a planting calender (agriculture). hunting (for example) large ground based birds that didn't have a land-based threat response...

food is plentiful and the climate won't kill you (unless your are really old or young) so you don't need to... labour to build a stone house or a log cabin... a more temporary shelter will suffice... so there isn't much of anything to do but to... play... most of every day... all up in one anothers business and what are you doing why don't you stop what you are doing and entertain me...

that's a version of the story. one where people are focused on... each other. each other as the biggest source of threat. but also each other as the biggest source of reward. each other in a way that doesn't... allow for... co-operative or co-ordinated activity towards a greater project... like a massive physical protective structure for the group... or like a bridge... or a sewerage system... reading writing arithmetic...

the thought was that if the environment was harsher then people would be forced to work together to survive it.

but that's probably just an excuse for imposing a harsher environment.

i just read that the point of slums... is that it breeds an immunologically elite. that was how we 'discovered' / 'invented' the cure for most things... the immune system solution to HIV and much of everything else... it all starts with tissue from samples from the individuals who are living there right amongst it and who have developed *natural immunity*. of course it is a lot of work to find those people, collect samples from them, reproduce what their bodies made in the lab, package that for wider distribution...

but maybe that's why each country wants to develop (and control) it's own, particular, cesspool of a slum.

sigh.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:48:51

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:38:40

the terrible-most thing about the polictian was that he was obviously the scape-goat.

someone told him to say 'we thought it was culturally appropriate' as a defense. and he stammered it out.

the fact that that happened. that people allowed it to happen. that someone was behind getting it to happen (possibly - but it's also possible that he genuinely missed the point of politics and somehow thought that his job depended on his doing this voluntarily)...

the whole thing was just awful.

maybe the foreign company allowed / set up the whole thing to extort more money out of the government. maybe.

you gotta track where all the money goes, don't you.

you gotta track how many people in this country don't have enough money to live in a house that is within who guidelines on healthy temperature and humidity. you gotta track how many cocktails some people drink...

you just get sick of them. to be honest. just get sick and tired.

the petty squabbles.

there's no talking reason to them...

that was the thing about freudian psychoanalysis, i guess. it didn't really require much of anything actually from the therapist at all. you can fairly much go at it, yourself.

but there's some documentation. because without the paperwork... without some kind of a record... whats the difference between there being something going on and there being nothing going on?

one of my friends was like 'well, at least they know you can write'. becuase, yeah, that's right, they just assumed i was totally illiterate. i was assaulting work and income officers because i'm an illiterate person on welfare. yeah. they nailed me.

anyone who knows anything of me at all knows i'm all about that. right?

i'm all about being uncivil to people - right? i mean i'm the most uncivil poster you know - right? i come here and abuse the hell out of everyone and externalise all the fault onto the posters here. yep. that's me. totally nailed it.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 4:18:19

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 3:48:51

and now i'm starting to remember...

and i'm thinking about harmony vs discord. and how there was some discussion about civility as having something to do with harmony and peacekeeping.

and how that can be in tension with... i don't know... disturb. questioning, sometimes. the idea of bouncing off of in... maybe slightly unpredictable directions.

thinking about how i was removed from (and not really understanding of) US politics. and about how sometimes i did misjudge things (perhaps) with respect to... smoothness... being required. i'm not a natural soother. obviously. i think people expect a little less of that from me here than irl because i'm clearly a girl irl and clearly that is the natural function of girls...

hmm.

i remember sending bob an email of 'i hate you i hate you' and i discovered a copy-paste function to make paragraphs into pages into many pages and i don't know how long that email was... i was pretty upset, i remember. yeah.

and i also remember posting a response to every single post so i was the only poster visible on the board. that took work. that'll teach ya for trying to block me. or that'll keep dinah busy, or something. i was pretty upset, i remember. yeah.

i guess nobody knew the addictive(?) potential of the internet, back then. how psychologically... involved... things could get. and so on.

from the perspective of now... i guess the idea of blocks was 'take a step back and cool off'. the idea wasn't to psychologically damage... but it's hard. on the one hand you need rules so people can plan their futures... on the other hand you need to adopt your style as any parent knows. some kids need a firmer touch and others need a lighter touch. only... if that were true then why didn't i just take a step back when asked? i don't know.

and why do i keep spamming the boards now?

i don't know.

i win. i'm not blocked. i asked him to block me. if he blocks me then he's only doing what i asked. he doesn't have power over me anymore.

only he does.

all the other guys in my life died. my father. my brother. there was one guy who i went out with for a time who was a good guy, but things didn't work out. i think maybe he's gay. but also, he actually showed me that there were things about me that wasn't so great (i was eating pretty rubbish and smoking heaps). and... he couldn't sit by and watch me live like that. and... i realised. he was right. no self respecting person would. and strangely... i think that perhaps that might have been the start of me wanting to be a better person. not for him, particularly, but for someone like him. if that makes any kind of sense, at all. this site made me want to be better, too. i worked towards being a better person. i tried to be kinder and gentler. tis hard for me. still working on it.

i do miss a lot of the kindness and gentleness that i found, here. it felt safe for the smaller feelings. nowhere irl has ever felt like that for me. even though my therapist tried... it didn't feel right. i don't know.

 

Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k

Posted by Clearskies on September 24, 2018, at 16:29:38

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 4:18:19

I remember those times. I was worried about you, even as I would sometimes involve myself and get upset.

Im glad that intensity is in the past.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 19:31:06

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy » alexandra_k, posted by Clearskies on September 24, 2018, at 16:29:38

thanks, pc.

this site was never supposed to be a replacement for people getting the help they needed irl. he was always clear about that. the individual poster did (at times) take the hit for the group, or for his sanity, or whatever... and that wouldn't have been so hard for some people if they had have had the help / support they needed irl.

but i didn't, really. and that made here pretty intense for me.

i don't seek help anymore. i've come to see that help seeking is a display of weakness that others will likely exploit (if they have opportunity) for their advantage. i see that people offering help are often motivated by just how much they can help themselves at others expense.

here was different. which is why it isn't sustainable. as the people from commons-places see something... see something they are not supposed to see because it is not for them...

like how i'm locked out of anything, here. if there even is anything here. i'm of two minds about that.

the last 10 years of my life... how hard i have worked and the university... well, lets see, it starts with them forgetting to pay you and then they forget to pass you...

we'll see.

tidy things up in a few more days because they don't feel they've done their job properly if they don't force me to work on it for longer. i mean... that's what an editor would do for them - right? or a journal peer reviewer? it's the whole 9-5 thing. you must stay with your bum on the seat until 5 or it... isn't fair to the other kids. something like that. and if the person doing the work isn't actually threatened with failure and the like then they wouldn't do work at all.

even when there is a documented history of the person working in... civilised conditions. and cutting and running when treated like garbage. but of course they don't actually want me to finish, anyway, it is better for them if they are a scare resource, or whatever.

whatever. jump through the hoop and get out. they weren't afraid it would come to that they did what they could to bring that about.

of course it did occur to me that the whole small group thing was tied up in a whole charitable donation thing and looking out for donors primarily because thats the way the world works or whatever. of course it did occur to me. and of course it did also occur to me that that makes my presence here, somewhat subsidised and at the whims and vagaries of those who are the primary donors. donors or beneficiaries so hard to track the profits and losses...

but what are you going to do?

take what you can for as long as you can and keep your eyes open for something else to exploit to your advantage?

i'm still here. for whatever that's worth.

it was because it wouldn't have felt right sharing those emotions with my therapist irl. becuase it would have been just the two of us. which would have been wrong, somehow. but sharing those kinds of feelings with what felt like a small group. that did feel right. and at times... here felt like a big city and here felt like there was a war on. yeah. it did.

that's what's different. there aren't lots of people, here, to make this place such a warzone anymore.

but the rebuild didn't happen. well, we got facebook and the like, instead.

good old principles of intermittant reinforcement schedules and so on.

 

Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 19:43:20

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 19:31:06

because you gotta train people to work for money.
and then you gotta train people to give you money for whatever it is that you want to do.

i see a great number of scholarships and i think most of them are sham. data collection is all. there isn't a list or anything of past recipients. though maybe that's what i should ask before applying... for that. to see if they are legit.

they want you to write an essay or whatever. basically do a task that wastes your time. sometimes they want to hear about how poor you are. sometimes they want to hear about how you would choose to invest the money.

i see now that's what people are obsessed with in this city: how would our smartest people invest their money?

and i have come to see: our smartest people certainly would not tell them.

why do they ask?
i suppose that is a test.

the medical class of (i don't remember what year) offers a scholarship to someone who can demonstrate need to be awarded on the basis of what they plan to do with it. so you are supposed to tell them how poor you are and how you can make them billions with some pyramid scheme?

i think it is just taking the piss. i mean, really. because of the idea that poor people should be allowed to study medicine, too. or that people who are not their own first born sons (or, hell, why not their second born sons as well, or hell, why not their daughters?) should get to do.

i guess i see now not to waste my time applying for such things. because they aren't real. they aren't legit. you don't go around sticking your hand up that you are poor because people (dhbs and the like) will think that is their lisence to treat you like crap...

only... i guess that's what is in the rich peoples advantage to have others believe! that's why we should be so happy about them taking their rightful place according to their birthright!

this is all awful.

it's philosophy that gets me in my head thinking things round and round and round. because a thesis is a whole blah blah blah on the one hand blah blah on the other hand blah blah...

it's philosophy that makes me reminiscent and round in circles and winding myself up (trying to care). trying to get into teh spirit of it. trying to *enjoy* it if i can.

i don't do it for the money.
i don't do it for the enjoyment.
i don't do it becuae it is good for me.

something would be wrong with me if i wsn't feelign like shooting my face off, right now.

what a wonderful city that they made!


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[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

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