Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1100843

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Re: Partlycloudy alexandra_k

Posted by Clearskies on September 16, 2018, at 20:51:05

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy Clearskies, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2018, at 20:44:33

I do think its true that theyre miffed that you arent behaving as expected or demanding; youve got their collective noses out of joint. It means nothing but I admire you for getting the work in on time and complete. Im certain a professional demeanor is the last thing theyd expect, just guessing. For whatever reason someone might feel threatened and not know why.

(I was finding my health complaint was getting much worse when stressed. I was in a pickle.)


Re: Partlycloudy Clearskies

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 4:07:54

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy alexandra_k, posted by Clearskies on September 16, 2018, at 20:51:05

> I admire you for getting the work in on time and complete.

It does mean something. I thought they would say that / see it that way, but my supervisor... Denial. That was one of the stages of grief.

Yep. Keep me weak and powerless. Dependent on them.

I see.

I do see, now.

How the people around me have been happiest when I've been at my lowest. When I've been most... Unable to figure what to do.

When I'm 'paranoid' or I'm 'too stressed' or I'm 'depressed' or I'm wondering why I needed to have been born at all, things are too painful / too much for me.

That's when they get to look after me. If they want. If they feel like it. Or not. As they see fit. You know.

Like a little pet on their schedule.

It felt like it was mine... But I was never in the position to help them. And they never needed to ask for help from me, anyway.

My 'friend' with 2 rental properties. Who lets me stay in one for a couple months... Mostly just so she could kick out the previous tenants and move in some paying heaps more... To show me she had the power to do that, I guess. When she knew what I needed was my own space. Just a little test of that time to see whether I was right. Yep. I was right. Then it is time for me to lose that space.

Anyway... Whatever.

Thanks. You are the only person who has said that. If I tell people... Well... I think people much prefer to hear that it's rubbish. People seem determined to jump to that and proclaim it *even when they haven't bothered to read it*.

A professional person to talk to occasionally. To help show me how. That was what I needed. And when it seemed that I was getting that other people always would stick their oar in and mess that up for me. E.g., when I did find a clinician who I clicked with (largely for their ability to be professional. And also for their ability to... Not feel that they had to jump in with advice etc when they really didn't know. A little... Space to let me see. A little questioning the things that didn't quite sit right. Sometimes suggestions... But not insistance I see things their way...

It should't be too much to ask.

> (I was finding my health complaint was getting much worse when stressed. I was in a pickle.)

If mine hadn't gone away I would have had to have done something. Sigh. Moved to Australia, most probably. Hahaha. I'm sure you will feel better once it's dealt to. (((pc))) thank you for being here, for me.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 5:42:41

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy Clearskies, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 4:07:54

It is funny (strange not haha) the professional thing.

Nobody doubted my professionalism during my undergraduate degree. People seemed fairly impressed by me and the doctoral student. Impressed that we turned up to conferences with our papers finished and polished. Impressed that we attended a talk in every stream (and didn't skyve off because we were still finishing our own work or because we decided to go sightseeing). Impressed that our talks were properly polished (from papers) and we wern't obviously woffling or rambling because we hadn't finished writing them. Or not just playing it off the cuff.

None of my students behaved unprofessionally towards me, I don't think. And I don't think I behaved unprofessionally towards my students. Things were a bit stiff and formal, if anything. Certainly not my being gushy with them or spending tutorials yakking at them. I did learn a lot tutoring some law students, though, wherea all tutors were instructed to really take a back seat and the students were to prepare and run the tutorials themselves. I was impressed by how much the law students really prepared a good summary of the material. Forcing them to do those presentations meant they came prepared and they were a great bunch to teach.

I was considered professional enough in my conduct to get to go to the US. To help teach ethics to kids - some of whom were pre-med. I was allowed to grade their work (though that was checked -- and I greatly respect the professionlism of that process).

It has only been since my return to NZ that people have treated me like such garbage. Not enough to live anywhere habitable. Not enough to live with people who are able to give me space (instead of people who psychologically need me to be there for them). Not enough to eat healthy food while studying a demanding sport science program. Not enough to ... Not enough. Then when you ask for help because you aren't coping then out come the security guards to push you and shove you and rant at your lack of professionalism. To charge you with abusing them and so on.

Any unprofessionalism in my conduct in more recent years is in direct response to that sort of treatment.

Do we really think that other people would behave any different?

And the things I'd done that were supposedly unprofessional. If a judge was shown the video footage of my behaviour then they would see things in context. Which is why a judge wasn't shown any of the video footage. Which is why you gotta go around with a film camera taped to your head if you are poor and want to be treated professionally in these parts.

A woman with a baby and a Maaori as Vice Prime Minister. Avitars born out of a con-muniscations department from... Somewhere. From wherever they will collect their superannuation from, I guess. To disguise the fact that things are disgustingly uncivilised and unfair for so many of our children and Maaori people. But it's okay, our Prime Minister is the one going around blessing 'this is a vulernable child' on their heads.

Whose your mummy? In the name of equity, no less.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 5:59:04

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 5:42:41

And hopefully I'll get to wrap all of this up with a nice little bow and place it off to one side.

And get to learn about... Healthy development. The start off from conception (maybe even before) and track things through. Through to birth. And then infancy and then beyond. Learnign about healthy development. How you want things to go, when all is going well. About the scope and range of human variation. About how things are wobbly sometimes and about little nudges one can do to help them get back on course.

About healthy uses of shame and guilt. About healthy dyads and triads. And of course then the heartbrake of so much f*ck*d up ness in the world. But then just do the best you can.

And I think it will help me come to peace within myself, actually. There is this thing about not letting people with a history of trauma or abuse do it - for their own good. But that doesn't make sense to me. I think it is more culling the pool. I mean, I remember we used to learn that domestic violence wasn't a poor people issue, it knew no social class. But I'm fairly sure that domestic violence being reported to or recorded as having happened is a poor people issue, now, at least. It is only poor people who will have 'abused' or 'abuser' or 'vulnerable child' tagged to them. It's a way of culling the pool on the professional practice programs. Tis all.

I think maybe where I went wrong was saying from the outset that I needed to be done by x date. Because the date was in teh very near future people responded by dragging their heels. If I had have said I had 5 years to get it done they probably would have kicked their own processing work into overdrive. Trouble is that if people train you in opposite and back to front and upside down then you can't function around... The rest of them.

I think maybe where I went wrong was saying anything at all from the outset.

Only I needed to check whether being done by x date was possible. I needed to make it clear on my application.

There comes a time when you just gotta shrug your shoulders. Roll over. And go to sleep.


1) See what the dean says.
2) See what the examiners say (if the Dean sends it to them).
Nothing else I can do.

Did / am doing the best I can / best I could.

In some... From some perspective I do understand this idea that there is something to the... Calmness... Or something to the whole being raised professionally and so on thing. I mean, otherwise, if it were possible for me to turn out okay despite everything my Mother did to me... Then why would anybody treat their kid any different? If they got a kick out of distressing it, I mean. Of course all this was done in an effort to train me to put the clothes on that she left at the end of my bed each and every morning. With no fuss and no complaints. I wear what she wants when she wants because she wants. Even when the girls at school are wearing dresses and I want dresses (so I'm made to wear my brothers old monster t-shirt) or when I want trousers (so I'm made to wear these elaborate china-doll dresses). Or I could wear nothing at all, then. And the shame that overcomes me periodically will somehow make my mother feel victorious!

I'm so glad they didn't let her adopt a baby (just for a while, I like them when they are really really young) this year. She doesn't want a dog or a cat because they aren't contollable in quite the same way. Sigh.

I would really love to learn how things are supposed to go right. And tehn probably help people with their hemmarrhoids, yeah. Because I can know it when I see it and appreciate it. But the more... Formalised... Patient contact and the... Focus of the surgical team (when all goes well and everyone is working together and pulling their weight) would be great. Yeah. For me. To be part of a team of healthy people. For a change.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 7:13:18

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 5:59:04

maybe an odd question... But I wonder how many people have such vivid memories of things that occured to them when they were, like, three.

i wonder if it was because my mother was so good at magnifying (mostly - though occasionally not exclusively) the negative emotions. there is something about emotion encoding. something about how we tend to form vivid episodic memories of emotionally intense experiences.

she genuinely seems oblivious. she's surprised at how i remember things... sometimes she plays dumb. sometimes she says 'you remember that?' genuinely. like she thought she successfully managed to make me forget forever by distracting me. like... i really would have the memory of a fruit fly. doesn't matter what you do to kids when they are young because they won't remember anyway... she did have an element of that to / in her.

only, i do remember. and, since she was the primary source of distress... the only thing that would allow me to break out of the loop... the only way that i could figure out the thing to do that would help me break out of her loop... was for me to ... get away from her. yeah. just get the hell away and never look back.

only you have to so you aren't stuck *re*-acting to it *involuntarily*.

sometimes my initial reactoin is f*ck*d up. the initial-most. but i think most people are like that. that's why it's good to be 'pause' when unsure.

i dropped a glass bottle of ginger beer in the supermarket the other day. went to grab a 4 pack off the shelves with arms loaded of other stuff like you'd grab a 6 pack with your fingers in the holes on top - and one slid out. i managed to clutch the rest of them.

then this girl... maybe 7... 9... was like 'what can i do to help?' and i was like... you can't take the bottles because if you take one the rest will fall... can you take the jar?' and she took the jar. and i was like 'can you take my helmet' and she took my helmet. and i said: if i don't move i won't drop any more. can you go tell someone who works here that theres a mess. i'm worried someone will cut themself on the glass.' and she went off.

only of course i should have said 'can you tell someone who works here that someone dropped a glass bottle of liquid and can they bring a mop?'

because they didn't bring a mop. they brought paper towels and a dust-bin.

but she was a helpful little girl. and she reminded me of what helpful looks like. again.

and why it is that i feel so crazy, sometimes.

but i did good. i did the right things. largely. yeah. while most people look around sheepish. and would have run off.

only i should have stayed and helped the kids who came to clean it up. i apologised a lot. and then i started to say something about putting the wad of towels on the floor and scooting them about with your foot instead of getting down there on your hands and knees... but then i didn't want to be ordering them about... and they were all supplicant. and i felt bad about that.


i hope the dean does send it on to the externals. took me a while but i figured out the person who it should go to. she may well make some reccommendations for some changes. but i think she will be sympathetic of the overall line.

it's hard because the thesis has so mjuch from so many fields now. its truly interdiscipliary. i need someone with a bit of knowledge of law and insurance and ethics and social theory and statistics. ha.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:25:04

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 7:13:18

I'm wary of appealing to statistics. To any kind of statistics. Any appeal to statistics is like appealing to a claim like 'eggs are good'. I just mean to say that the statistical claim is meaningless. Rather, you need to know what question they asked and how they collected their data and then the raw data and so on... So you can assess whether there is sample bias and in what direction and so on... And there is an industry in telling the story this, that, and the other way for this, that, and the other effect.

And I do get that apparently now statistics are coming out that... diverge from the 'party line'. Only... I don't see that their use of statistics is any... More rigerous than the 'opposition'. It's just... More of the same. The *quality* of the debate hasn't picked up.

I have decided / realised that things are significantly worse in this country than how they used to be. During my time away this country really took a dive downhill for the worse. Presently most of our infrastructure is empty. Universities are empty. There is a dearth of skilled staff. A dearth of competent lecturing staff.

We've been taken over by admin. The developments are all structures and even spaces to divert attention away from the fact that: *There's nobody home*. It's the economic thing they do when they discover the assets when immediately liquidated are worth more than the value of the thing and so they buy out the thing and liquidate and say there's a *restructure* which involves firing skilled people and fleshing things out with masses of... Drones... To try and disguise for as long as possible that *there's nobody home*.

Because they want to collect the money from international student fees for as long as possible, I suppose.

And if they offer a Medical Degree (particularly) that looks to be a back door into Australia...

Well, they can free-ride off of that for a while.

Presently Dentistry is working pretty hard. And dental technology. The only people walking around here with smart navy blue scrubs are *dental technicians*. I met some of them in physics. They were lovely. The whole table was significantly struggling and they were crying *why do we have to do this course!!!!!*.

The books are still being culled from the libraries. And the individual desks are being removed to be replaced by long benches. I guess it will be easier to remove (burn?) a few long benches at the end of the day than many many many individual desks.

The physical infrastructure is being dismantled and shipped off.

That's how come when you aren't forced into the herd (e.g., with 1,500 people split across 2 or 3 lecture theatres) you see how empty things are. Like Auckland traffic which is only a nightmare because *everybody must* be at work at *exactly the same time* and *everybody must* leave work at *exactly the same time* which creates an artificial jam.

You only need to leave 30 minutes later to see...

*There's mostly nobody home*. And nobody on the roads... And outside term time the whole housing shortage crisis thing in central Auckland... There's nobody home there, either.

Come summertime central Auckland is as deserted as Canberra.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:36:23

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:25:04

I wonder if it is like this in other countries, too, or if things are worse, here.

During my time in Australia the university was going through a restructure. It made sense for some of the departments / research schools. But not for others. But it happened, regardless.

I don't really know how things are there post-restructure.

It was supposed to be about adding diversity to the department. It made the department *bigger*. By merging a few of them together. It meant they could present a different bunch of statistics on things like PhD completion rates. Maybe that was it. I suspect it was. Maybe there was a trade-off there with respect to the output / productivity of the researchers vs their students. That could have been it. That wouldn't surprise me. So now we'll find a way to fix that by introducing co-authorship, like the sciences, because you are required to have 5x20+ years of publications so that's over 100 publications before you get to give a talk on how 'I'm a real doctor that treats actual patients while simultaneously running a few randomised double blind control trials and the odd observational study' and there is no oxy.. no oxy... no oxy... something. I forget what. No oxy something in that.

Smile of the camera and come to the talk, do! to be followed by drinks!


Someone's gotta do that, I guess. Glad it's not me. I hope those are the jobs for the heirs to the throne. The mantle or whatever. Whatnot. To hobknob with the people who think all of that is just *charming* and where can they sign themselves up?



Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:56:00

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:36:23

they tell us that universities *used to be* elite, and now what is happening is that they are becoming for the people.

only, i don't believe that is true.

i mean... i first went to university. however many years ago. from this country. what i did was i made the decision that i wanted to go to university, i worked (a bit) at school to make sure i earned the grades that would get me in to university, and then i got to go to university.

what has happened is that they decided to change what the university is about so that *everybody wants to go to university*. so you have, today, a bunch of people at university who never would have chosen to go, before, because they don't actually like studying anything at school, and they aren't actually particularly interested in any of the university subjects, either.

but, they watch tv. and university is where you go to be a doctor. to marry a doctor. i forget. university is where you go for those cool frat parties (or foreign equivalent). and so on. university is where you go if you want a job that pays a living wage. and they scare all these people (and many more besides) into going to university.

but there isn't really anybody to teach them. because there's nobody home, anymore.

they try and persuade people to believe that the problem is that they didn't get entry to professional degree program. and that's not about who'se your daddy, that's about people not getting the grades (we have no accountability on grading practices) or whatver... even when different residential halls employ different tutors and so on...

and i know full well that when you get into a professional degree it doesn't take more than about 5 minutes to learn that there's nobody home there, either. they mopped up the remaining people who would have been great for the sciences or whatever else (because that is, after all, what they were actually trained to do) but... there's nobody actually medical. well, plenty of oxy guys, but that's more medicine conmunications presented by all my randomised double blind control patients and observational study patients i'm totally in it for my patients brought to you by pharma or toxic waste disposal or whatever oxy guy...

and... i know... you gotta meet the people who *enjoy* hanging off his every word.

i just... my concern is for the little old lady in the corner getting screwed out of her retirement fund.

but what ya gonna do?

we have been taken over by psychopaths. people have been saying it for a while.

fortunately it is a cognitive capacity thing... so it is actually possible to assess...

sustained though.

i suspect the solution is what people have known for a while... it is in the balance of power. and about the continual need to rebalance as new things are added. as any computer game developer will know.

the structures so the mercenaries behavior tends to co-incide with the actual good.

some sham facade of morality.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 17:08:48

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:56:00

because maybe it is true that power corrupts.

maybe it is true that as things go your way you find yourself believing that things deserve to go your way and that if things aren't going well for others then things don't deserve to be going well for others.

maybe that's something that happens as the human mind seeks order or reason or some way of making sense of the situation. a way the human mind can live with. if you can't help the victim: blame the victim. if you can't help the victim: the victim enjoys their position and it is only a matter of time before the victim will get their chance to have all the enjoyment over others that their persecutor had over them. and that is the game of life.

i keep thinking *new money*. that was supposed to be the thing - wasn't it? there was this idea/l of the English gentry. The ruling class. The lords. And televison shows like Downtown Abbey and people like Emma who go and help tend to the poor people in the village when they are ill. People who use their power (to the best of their ability) to look after those in their charge. To create jobs for them. To support their way of life. And so on.

But then the idea is that their money dwindles... Perhaps through bad management, but perhaps just because the... Was it the titans of industry? Something like that. But you have a bunch of new money.

Which is money.

But none of the refinement of the gentry. The gentle... gentlity.

And perhaps the squandering of money. Not appreciating teh value of it. I suppose there are charicatures either way.

A balance of power issue. A... Rebalancing of power issue.

And we learn about people like that guy from Mad Men who (we are supposed to believe) is irrevokably f*ck*d up because of his childhood. And Dexter - which is why the 'victims' gotta be kept out of professional practice (and mistrusted and excluded generally).

But there is something to it. And about how the people with money in these parts are new money. Hence the whole thing about how it takes someone with enough cheer to *force* people to adopt a spirit of cheer in cleaning up after themselves. Because they are people who get a kick of throwing something to the floor and seeing people scramble to pick up after them. That is what gets them feeling like *they made it in life*.

No... I am different from them.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:12:35

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 17, 2018, at 16:56:00

> i just... my concern is for the little old lady in the corner getting screwed out of her retirement fund.

though i don't know why my concern should be that way. i should be concerned about the little old lady in the corner getting people to run around after her constantly because they believe it will end up paying them dividends...

and mostly, there's a bunch of people playing with screwing each other over, and you just gotta get away from them, as best you can.

they say 'don't do a degree in arts - do arts as your hobby' and by employing people who will not work / who will not work quickly for the arts they make sure that people employed in the arts never are allowed to do more than people who have a hobby interest can do on their weekends.

there is a tragedy of commons aspect to here...

and it isn't about the rich people and their rich kids... it really isn't.

those who are of greatest concern are those with nothing to lose. there really are groups of people about who have had minimal competent supervision *their whole lives* who are ruled by the biggest bully.

and the biggest bully is always on the look out for ready victims.

and there really is a very genuine sense in which you simply gotta learn to keep your head down in these parts. because you got people who have devoted their lives to ruling with an iron fist and you just gotta try not be targeted by them. so a sense in portraying you are part of some larger herd who will protect you (whether or not that's true).

even swimming... you can't just go and do your own thing in your own lane... someone will notice you and freak out about that. *most especially* if you want to work hard at it / get good at it you simply got to do that as part of a pod of people so you don't stand out from your pod in any way...

i am genuinly fearful that they will fail me this degree because i haven't sucked up to them in the way they consider appropriate... because they believe they can fail me... i don't trust their professionalism. which, i guess, is why it is that i do not want to join them. i don't want to live insecurely huddled where my prime task is pandering to them in some petty politics. i want to be in a setting where i feel secure that people will be able to identify and will routinely choose to acknowledge and ultimately reward... doing the f*ck*ng job.

it's a long way to there. and i guess this is why people have revulsion towards starting over. i think starting over is okay. the problem is getting other people to let you get started. people haven't let me get started here. awful people. they *choose* to be.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:25:11

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:12:35

and it really is about civilisation. and it really is about cognitive capacity. it's an odd kind of cognitive capacity, though, and one i don't know how to characterise. it seems to me that some people with intellectual impairment (e.g., down's syndrome, learning disorder) some very young children display this sort of capacity... and some other people simply don't. there is something where a person is just fairly exclusively focused on other people. on controlling other people to do what they want. and this results in things being pretty awful for the people around them / the people in their control. only you get other people just like them and so they vie for power...

and no collaborative work gets done. there is no... short term hit for a longer term reward. there is no... civilisation. such environments aren't productive. nobody is allowed to do anything that the biggest bully doesn't approve of. the biggest bully will claim all the fruits for themself. there is no cognitive capacity to see the bigger picture.

what can you do in the face of this?

i don't know. you just try and keep your head down and get away from them. I think there was something of that... this idea that it doesn't matter what you do (ie a job) with your life... it's more about getting in with a group of people who aren't awful. who don't treat you awfully...

learning why to keep the head down.

it is like civilisation is always, by it's very nature, transitory and fleeting. it always will be overrun by psychopaths. it emerges from cognitive capacity but it's always... aspirational. idealistic. people working towards something. intentional. teleological. then the brute forces of natural selection catch up and the psychopaths infiltrate and take over. over and over and over again. gotta keep your head down and keep running away...

that's why so much of my recent life has felt like i've been locked out. because the people have huddled away because they can't afford to... and you got these awful bully people walking around with their chests puffed out... everything to lose by people around them thinking they won't buy in / they don't have to / they don't want to play their game.

there isn't medicine here. nor law. nor engineering. pretty sure. foreign contractors when at all. people who are getting rich off of *other people* taking a fall. *other people* far removed from them. *other people* who arne't capacble of doing good, honest business, anyway.

nobody in their right mind would voluntarily stay here in this environment. not unless they chose this way of life for themselves. because they *enjoy* it. because they *want to be part of it*.

it really is very awful here.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:37:37

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:25:11

and partly it is about how people choose to weild power.

i guess we were supposed to outgrow, here.

like aa and na. when all goes well you outgrow them.

why would you keep coming back to a site that is about mental health support? do you still need support for your mental health, after all these years?

i need a way of processing and working through and there is nobody for me to talk to in this country because everyone here has an interest in keeping me powerless and weak and sick. because this is how this country prefers to keep me.

the money thing... i still don't get it. the government prints off a pile of money and calls it 'gdp'. then it distributes it to the people in various ways, for them to give to each other in exchange for goods and services. and there is some centralisation of this which makes it possible for people to travel overseas and use money... exchange rates... and of course they don't need to print off money (that costs money haha) it is just a bunch of numbers that are viewable on a website momentarily... and funds transfers go through at point of sale which allows purchase... or not.

and the government thought that instead of going from secondary school to jobs it would be better if people went from secondary school to university. and people's bank accounts would grow in the + direction they would grow in the - direction (as people would live off of loans instead off of earnings). and people wouldn't get paid for doing jobs that involved pushing paper around, rather they would become endebted for doing jobs that involved pushing paper around.

we don't want people working towards carrots, we want people working to flee sticks. or something.

none of this makes any sense, at all, to me.

except that if you want your kid to have a chance of a good life... well... i guess it is cambridge curriculum for high school and try for university scholarship overseas. because here... they don't even pretend to grade things fairly (rewarding quality or rewarding volume of information accurately recalled)... there is no encouraging (or even allowing) good work, here.

just a bunch of people playing some awful game of warily eyeing one another and a basic inability to grasp anything of value and work towards the pursuit of that. just a frantic flurry of undermining any glimmer of that in others. at which point they get to go 'see! see! see! we were right!'

what did the public health people... the surgeon general and all that... what did the people put in our water?


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:56:07

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:37:37

and this place is a commons... tragedy of...

it was about the balance / distribution of power.

i guess it is a development thing.

to start out... you need your mother, or whatever. you are not able to have your needs met and you need someone else to provide for you.

but then you start to grow and develop, in response to that nourishment. you start to do more and more of those things for yourself.

and eventually you have grown and developed to the point where you can look after yourself better than anybody else can look after you. you have this privaledged access to your body (and it's physiological needs) because you are attached to it, rather. It lets you know what's up.

But there is still something about the balance / distribution of power. Where it is helpful to have some kind of imput or weighing in from another. Another who has your best interest behind the reccommendation. Whether that be a family who genuinely loves you. A financial advisor acting from genuine fiduciary duty. A consultant... Consultation... Informed consent. Morality. People get it. People have an interest in exploiting it. People have an interest in having children to hold them up as hostages to try and get their own needs met. People have an interest in breeding a colony of worker-people or slaves.

And this site... Got lost in the transition of power. The Oligarchy phase. Because the people in the oligarchy wanted more power still...

And of course the real killer was the development of an infrastructure that promised (seemed to provide) complete control for the individual user.

You don't want to read x's posts - you can make it so they will not appear for you!

You don't want y to read your posts - you can make it so your posts will not appear for y!

You want to rewrite history (edit / revise / delete) your post posts? Okay.

Complete user control.

People wanted to be in control of their own site. Wanted it to feel that way. That was what facebook or whatever seemed to provide. That here... Would not.

It's a developmental thing...

I'm still here because I live in a commons of a country... The whole country here is tragey of commons. Failure of organisation.

Bob was a great man who held things together here for quite some time. So very many people. For quite some time. Fairly much single-handedly. I think he probably did make mistakes and eventually the whole thing got to be too much for him. I suppose people got blocked because... He couldn't handle them. He couldn't deal with them. Or maybe he thought this site was bad for them / holding them back from developing IRL... I don't know...

Point is that I feel like here showed me something of looking out for other people putting their interests first. Because ones own are adequately taken care of. That's what makes that possible. But something like that.

Because like the little girl in teh supermarket who was able to be helpful because she was able to stand and wait while I figured what would be useful and she was able to listen and follow instructions because she could see that all that was what was actually needed... And there was a rightness and flow about it all. There was osmething of that to here... And it helps me feel less crazy. Becuase here so much in my life here in this world irl I dont see anything of this. I just see people puffing out their chests and petty squabbles. No.. self reflection. no personal development or growth.

I saw some very fine minds in philosophy but I wondered why they didn't put their minds to trying to solve some of the hardest problems... I see now they were just struggling to stay afloat... I don't know. Why can't we listen to people when it comes to what they think is good for them? Why we gotta control them differently?

I guess that is what Bob represents for most people and that is why most people left. The promise of greater control over on facebook or whatever.

But who am I going to talk to over on facebook or whatever? Those same people who irl are happy to see me weak and powerless and grovelling to not be failed just beause the people in charge of me have the power and get a kick out of abusing it?

I don't know. I suspect it's the medium here. Writing. I used to journal irl oh yes I did.

Why not just journal for myself personally then?

Becuase every so rareely... Occasionally... Someone somewhere asks a question or makes a comment or something... And I'm infinitely better because of it. SOmething to remind me of I'm not alone. And I'm so much the better for that.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:08:28

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 22:56:07

and the anonymity, the illusion of it. the removal from everyday life. if i'm talking to the people in my real world life they have an interest in keeping me weak and powerless so they can puff out their own chests and feel powerful and rich. these aren't people who have chosen to help me grow and develop. these aren't people who have my interests at heart. and i do what i can to minimse the amount of time i spend with these people, becuase these people are not good for me. i know that. and they know that.

why haven't i found people who would be good for me? i actually suspect it is largely because of the aforemnetioned people who have more of an interest in keeping me away from the people who would be good for me. more of an interest in keeping me kicked back and weak...

i don't really want these people who i know (who i know of) irl to be stabotaging things for me left right and centre. only... pretty sure that's what they have been...

i met people on these boards who didn't have vested interest in things being worse for me irl.

i felt genuinely cared about here, for a time. i genuinely cared about others on these boards... i learned to care for other people, here. and care for myself. come to recognise irl for the toxic situation that it is / was.

i do want to help people and i genuinely wouldn't treat others as badly as others have treated me. i am different from them and that is why i deserve to have more than them in life. i mean... when it is crunch time and power against power the power that is responsive to reason and the power that has the empathic capacity to see...

i don't know.

i'm tired of being disabled by here. this horrible country with the horrible people in charge of it in teh 'easiest economy in the world in which to do business' which only means it's impossible to trade, here. it's a country of... uncivilised psychopaths.

only... what you gonna do about it? The energy and effort and time that is required to be invested in putting the intersets of others ahead of your own... what kind of a return are you likely to get on that, here?

this whole place just doesn't make any sense.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:17:36

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:08:28

i guess it is because of where it is geographically in the world.

i read something (reputable) about how we like to look at china and india and so on and call them 'developing' and proclaim outself 'developed'. only, china and india and so on have been (dodgey stats, probably, but lets's see them) doing significantly better than us.

they are more developed than we are.

this country really has been going backwards / downhill.

there is stuff on 'brain drain' from developing to developed. the idea is that the developing invests in training to try and have a skilled workforce but the people take their training and bugger off to the already developed nations and work there.

our solution to the 'brain drain' was not to figure out how to have our skilled workforce contribute more to making this place better for us all. rather, our solution to the 'brain drain' was to stop training our people to become skilled. that way no other country will want them and they will be forced to say here - you see? only... now we don't have people with skills for medicine or law or engineering... actuary science... finance... all kinds of things... we just don't have.

we have become, basically, a detention facility off the coast of australia. a holding pen for people trying to come out of india or china or wherever. tracking / surveillance is such a big deal here because the US, Australia, Canada, the UK can collect all the data it needs on whether the skilled professionals really are... Professional. Or whether they will be forever doomed to join the ruling classes here... To rule the commons...

I'm frustrated because I am sick and f*ck*ng tired of being kicked at here, by these awful people in charge of the lowest levels who will not let me get started on anything...

I'd rather be dead than join them. That's not depression... That's...



Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:37:11

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:17:36

see, once you have identified that which is theraputic about the internet...

then a bunch of people have an interest in undermining what is theraputic about it.

because you have people whose life strategy is to prey upon the weak and they have an interest in keeping people weak and sick and so on.

i think that is probably the pattern, over and over. you want to be part of something that is lesser known and on the up. you want to get out of it before it hits it's peak. it's only downhill from there.

i've been part of a couple things when they were on the up. here was one of them.

i'm not here so much from reminiscence... clinging to some (false) ideal about the way things used to be...

i'm here partly trying to understand what it was about both of those projects that made them on the up... what happened with respect to the peak... so i can use this going into the future with respect to figuring out what i'm going to do.

since returning to nz i haven't found anything on the up. i haven't found anything to invest in...

training programs i see hit a one person bottleneck and that one person will only advance people who... are either psychopathic (have the ability to display one face to the other while having another behind closed doors) or are genuinely blind / unable to see that which cannot be expressed (becuase that one person is hired precisely to fail that when seen).

i don't know how much it's market forces vs invisible hand guiding this country is worse directions.

i imagine our 'allies' have 'interests' in keeping us a detention facility for themselves...

but i imagine our 'allies' also do have 'interests' in having us develop into better trading partners with actual stuff of merit / value to bring to the freaking table, for a change.

anyway.. fingers crossed i get to get started... i know i'll have to be pretty pro-active with respect to getting and keeping things lined up... because the district health boards have more an interest in keeping people incompetent and cheap and labouring for hours and hours and hours and hours just because... hell, why not? why not take $600,000 for yourself (just because you can) and make everyone elses life a living hell (just because you can) work hard to undermine the public sector (just because you can) to promote the private industry (you chose to invest all that public money in).

i think you gotta do a couple years with a dhb... i'll take a look. pretty sure you can apply for some kind of refugee thing to australia... work hard... head down... get out as soon as you can. people here *prefer* to live this way. they would rather have a colony of slaves to lord over. they see they would not be given such opportunity in life any other developed nation in the world. this is the country that they made.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 0:09:21

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 22, 2018, at 23:37:11

and I guess I start to see *why* it's largely about doing this and then that and then the next thing. getting the things ticked off. because the ability to get on and do the things is that f*ck*ng rare. people, for the most part, simply will not / simply cannot.

in the public sector you got all these open plan spaces and they are basically creches for adults. so they can get all up in everyones business and so on... the whole 9-5 thing so that domestic violence is a little less. the whole hard physical labour thing so that domestic violence is a little less. the whole... artificial facade of too many people too many people too many people to try and get people keeping their heads down and huddling with their herds...

so that things are... civilised and pleasant. for... uh... for...

a quiet few who get things done. for the good of.... as many as possible? as greater proportion as possible?

to try and have as many *believe* they've truly made it in life. advisor to the advisor of the big chief boss of that... filling up the empty hotel rooms and flights... pushing their papers...

it's such an empty facade.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:39:04

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 0:09:21

and i suspect it is an illusion. the whole one-man thing.

i suspect it was more about internet promotions. part of the whole 'how do we get the buy-in' problem. how do we get people to pay $1,000 or so for their very own personal surveillance device that they are sufficiently 'addicted' to (shall we say) such that they stay within their arms reach 24/7? quite the problem. but it has been solved - yes?

i know i will stop posting here.

i was asked at my interview, a while back, now, what 2 things were that i would invest in. i nominated 2 things. and in the last 10 years i have seen people invest in those things (or things in their proximity) enough to make money off of it while simulteneously undermining what it was about those things that made them worthy of investing in.

one of them was the theraputic potential of the internet. which has been ruined by (cr(apps)). more to the point ruined by much taxpayers money being diverted to their development -- which has basically meant a chunk of money being gifted to people who did not develop a workable app, at the end of the day.

the other of them was this youth centre run by a particular figure, again.

and that makes 3 enterprises i've seen on the up...

they were getting some meaningful life changes for these kids. and now there is a hub here, a hub there, a hub every f*ck*ng where. they are talking about non birthing unit maternity hubs, now. basically... you know... an empty room that we write 'medical clinic' on the side of it only... there's nobody home.

you do have people who will only be the sole provider. who will not allow others to bring anything to the table. those are the people in charge of here. say you depose them. then what will happen? others will only rise up to take their place. aren't there any people who are different? Who are willing to do things differently? the former have invested in their not being. so...

i know you are supposed to keep your head down and your mouth shut and bide your time... wait for your opportunity...

but that's there strategy.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:51:54

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:39:04

I mean, what are you going to do?

3rd year physiology. you have to participate in these 3 hour lab things where you get to (have to) operate on a live sheep which involves trying to kill it, for the sake of trying to revive it's heart with adrenalin.

2nd year physiology. where you have to write up this laboratory on the dive reflex -- only the laboratory set-up doesn't actually allow us to test the dive reflex. because the dive reflex was a physiological response that kicks into people when people have their faces submerged in water and they do not breathe for... i don't remember how long... but it was quite some time... it was time enough for their body to do a 'i am going to die' shutting down response so the heart rate drops... in the lab we weren't going to play 'soldier (or perhaps jewish prisoner) has been dropped in the water! how long we got!' so we changed the experiment so it involved only 30 second breath hold. which, of course, isn't long enough for bradychardia. so we redefined bradychardia so that we managed to produce a dive reflex!

at least, that's how we were supposed to write it up. if we wanted to pass. our data found evidence of the dive reflex, you see.

never mind mark houser or whatever... nevermind falsifying data or lying about what you did... you do what you are told when you are told because you are told if you want to pass physiology.

only... if that's what it takes to pass physiology -- i don't want to pass physiology. anything that requires any of that... just ain't worth doing. any grade from the person who has co-ordinated all of that... just ain't worth earning.

don't get me started on other degrees.

the solution is supposed to be to huddle with the herd. just write what everyone else writes. we don't have a group plagarism thing for science. you go along to the person in charge and you play dumb and say you don't know what to say / what to write and they tell you and you write them down verbatim.

that's basically it: you write them down, verbatim. the people in charge.

then i guess you are left with: and what is it that they are teaching you? anything worth knowing?

does it have the potential to help things better or worse or much the same?

i am tired of being treated like an idiot.
shushed in seminars.
and so on.

what would the world really have gained by employing me as a philosopher?

happy vibes they prevented me from doing what it was that i actually wanted to do... to try and help make things better for us all...

because people can't see beyond their own little pocket.

i am done talking. and... everything. this year...

there is no way around: i did everything in my power. and have had it beyond everything. the complete and utter sh*t hole garbage heap of here. i have been saying it for years... wasting my life... because other people are too f*ck*ng stupid to have things any other way.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:00:15

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 2:51:54

and actually, that's not even it. they got me being philosopher.

what they never did do, was get around to paying me. for any of it.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:01:57

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:00:15

because they decided to give the money to people who need to control others.

making this country better, you see. like that.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 22:29:24

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 3:01:57

because i did do the work.
i did my 6 month review (at the 12 month mark - along with my cohort).
i did my mid-term.

my supervisor refused to acknowledge it *as* my review, and *as* my mid-term. he kept saying it wasn't good enough, or it wasn't of the right format, or...

and i was supposed to stand up to him. only... i didn't want to play that awful game. i didn't realise he was playing an awful game. i didn't realise he was being horrible to me becuase he thought it was somehow his job to be horrible to me. some hazing or right of passage or i don't know. and i don't much care.

i wanted to do philosophy because i was intellectually curious about things and i wanted to learn about things. but i seemed to be learning that mostly i wasn't being taught anything i actually had come to want to learn about. so... i pursued learning about the things i wanted to learn about.

and here we are.

there was this whole thing about kids and then being expected to earn your keep or bring something to the table.

but lets remember the whole government distribution system (not talking about taxes talking about gross earnings)...

why is it in the nations interests to keep their people weak and powerless and uneducated and sick and... awful.

most especially when the people have intrinsic desire / capacity to contribute towards the development of... more than that.



why keep the people idle?

i guess people are still riding the wave of the financial crisis. it was predictably late hitting these shores... or something. i don't know.

beam me up

i guess the bottleneck thing is mostly to teach people to get the hell out of academia. universities. to get people looking into private sector. seeing the psychopaths the universities hail as mighty leaders and all that. it's not about the best grades. i got the best grades before and where did that get me? i was supposed to take my place as bottleneck for students with capacity for more. i was supposed to take my public sector job (i can't believe they pay me so much for doing so little). (i can't believe they give me a job doing x when i'm incompetent at x and not doing y when i'm competetent at y).

all this is because i haveh to revise and resubmit.


i hate philosophy


Re: Partlycloudy alexandra_k

Posted by Clearskies on September 23, 2018, at 22:31:58

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 23, 2018, at 22:29:24

You used to post quite a bit about philosophy.


Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 0:50:30

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy alexandra_k, posted by Clearskies on September 23, 2018, at 22:31:58



Re: Partlycloudy

Posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 1:21:22

In reply to Re: Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 24, 2018, at 0:50:30

yeah. it used to be my form of therapy. because there wasn't any other.

but i've come to see the problem really isn't with me. it is a poor person-environment fit kind of a thing.

i studied philosophy because i genuinely was interested in it. but it turns out other people studied philosophy not becuase they were genuinely interested in it, but becuase it was the only thing they did well in (or similar). and then they were incentivised to ruin the whole thing for everyone. or similar.

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[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,

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