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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2017, at 7:21:38
Hey you all,
who has experience with flouride tablets. I hear that in the US they put it in tap water. I have cavities.
Regards,
Lamdage
Posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2017, at 0:22:41
In reply to Flouride Tablets?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2017, at 7:21:38
I suspect you would be better off brushing your teeth (gently for a couple minutes to remove food debris and dissolve stuff off them) after meals and trying to refrain from eating sugar / corn syrup / refined (processed) carbohydrates.
Some of our water supply is treated.
It is controversial, here. Some think that it is a good example of a universal equity public health campaign (targets those who can't afford to drink bottled water; main side effect of yellow teeth negligable for populations who smoke a lot, drink a lot of tea and coffee etc; somewhat mitigates poor dental hygine for people who can't / won't brush their teeth properly / refrain from eating heavily processed carbohydrates).
I suspect you can do better...
Posted by baseball55 on August 24, 2017, at 18:35:40
In reply to Flouride Tablets?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 23, 2017, at 7:21:38
> Hey you all,
>
> who has experience with flouride tablets. I hear that in the US they put it in tap water. I have cavities.
>
> Regards,
> LamdageMany communities in the US do fluoridate their water supply. Children (from families with enough money to see a dentist) typically receive additional fluoride treatments when they are young. As a result of both, I have read that children get far fewer cavities than they did when I was young.
I typically got several cavities a year and by the time I was 30, virtually all my teeth were falling apart. I only have 10 teeth left that have not been pulled or don't have a crown or bridge. My husband was losing all his teeth by his mid- 30s. In contrast, my children - who grew up with fluoridated water and fluoride treatments - rarely had cavities and have no problems at all with their teeth as they enter their 30s.
I don't know about fluoride tablets as an adult, though. Can't hurt. There are also fluoride toothpastes, though you might have to ask a dentist where to get one - don't know. I know they exist, but I've never seen one at the store.
Best of luck to you.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2017, at 2:43:45
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets?, posted by baseball55 on August 24, 2017, at 18:35:40
You have never seen a flouridated toothpaste at the store?
You have to really hunt about to find a toothpaste that isn't flouridated over here.
I suspect we really go over the top with the flouride, over here.
It is one thing to apply it topically to the teeth... Quite another to put it in the peoples drinking supply...
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 25, 2017, at 11:09:07
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » baseball55, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2017, at 2:43:45
> You have never seen a flouridated toothpaste at the store?
Sure i have. I use flouridated toothpaste. My mothers Dentist says she has one patient that is allergic to flouride and she has new cavities every visit. Sounds like a nightmaire to me.
> I suspect we really go over the top with the flouride, over here.
>
> It is one thing to apply it topically to the teeth... Quite another to put it in the peoples drinking supplyDo you think it helps prevent cavities when it goes through your bloodstream? I agree in the way that i think people should have a choice.
Posted by baseball55 on August 25, 2017, at 18:23:11
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » baseball55, posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2017, at 2:43:45
> You have never seen a flouridated toothpaste at the store?
>
> You have to really hunt about to find a toothpaste that isn't flouridated over here.
>
Maybe all our toothpastes have fluoride and I just never read the ingredients. I figured there would be something on the label, but I'm probably wrong.I have no problem with fluoride in the water. Not all towns do it, but if you live in a town that does and you object, you can always buy bottled water. It revolutionized dental health for children. I wish they had done it when I was a child, so my teeth didn't all decay and end up falling apart by the time I was a young adult.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 26, 2017, at 19:30:23
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » alexandra_k, posted by baseball55 on August 25, 2017, at 18:23:11
> I figured there would be something on the label, but I'm probably wrong.
Ours do say it on the label.
> I have no problem with fluoride in the water. Not all towns do it, but if you live in a town that does and you object, you can always buy bottled water. It revolutionized dental health for children. I wish they had done it when I was a child, so my teeth didn't all decay and end up falling apart by the time I was a young adult.If you have money to buy bottled water then you can buy bottled water, yes.
Do you mind if I ask about tooth brushing when you were a child / how much soda / sweets / corn syrup / sugar / refined carbohydrates were part of your diet?
I know that there can be individual variation in enamel thickness and individual variation in how enamel wears (traditional diets high in grit wear out enamel pretty good, or where flour is mixed with fine stones)...
But dentine (the material underneath the enamel) will remodel and harden / compact over time so as to protect the pulp cavity. So long as you keep acid off / away (so gentle brushing after meals and preferably avoiding complex carbohydrates).
I wonder... Whether in some communities dentists are quicker to plug holes in enamel thinking that people simply won't follow the nutritional / behavioral advice that they would (for example) probably enforce with their own children...
Posted by alexandra_k on August 26, 2017, at 20:42:17
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » baseball55, posted by alexandra_k on August 26, 2017, at 19:30:23
I'm curious about this since I haven't been to the dentist since I turned 18 and I remember that for a few of my 6 monthly check-ups the dentist had hemmed and hawed about whether this or that or this other place could use a filling.
I have had tooth pain, at times.
I have tried to research things... So I might be able to make an informed decision about it all... I could probably scrape together the funds for a check-up, at least if that is the thing that I need to do... I think you can get some assistance with dental from Work and Income...
I have tried to research things to see whether that is the thing to do, however... Because there is just so much money to be made... People selling toothbrushes and cleaning products. Dentists trying to sell their services.
The dentists got me going back to them before I turned 18 because I thought there were holes they needed to keep their eye on.
And then the government got it's record of my adult dentition when I turned 18 to use in forensic contexts.
Or whoever it is that has access to / control over that data...
What was in it for me - again?
I'm not usually a psychopath... But I'm learning... Perhaps I'm learning not to be taken for a fool...
I studied some Biological Anthropology and we had access to quite a few teeth. Most of them were from skeletons who (in life) would have been poor people from India. I was surprised at how even though they had calculus buildup between the teeth... Even though they had localised discoloration from pipe smoking... The teeth were pretty white. Compared to my teeth. Compared to most peoples teeth in our class.
We had access to lots of photographs, too. You can estimate the relative age at death of skeletal remains from traditional hunter-gatherer populations by looking at the wear on the occlusal surfaces of their teeth, you see. The enamel wears off the top of the teeth much more significantly than a more modern western diet since their diet is less manually pre-processed. They have bits of grit and rocks and husks on things etc. You can see the dentine that lies under the enamel. You can see how the dentine remodels and compacts harder over time so as to protect the pulp cavity with it's nerve and blood supply.
What our diets have that their diets don't is a greater proportion of refined sugars and carbohydrates. The bacteria that live in the mouth really feast on those substances and they produce acid as a byproduct of their metabolism and that acid eats away at the surfaces of our teeth (enamel and dentine). So... The utility of brushing is mostly about gently does it for a longer duration while the biofilm gunk dissolves.
I know that we did hear about how traditional peoples used to have some terrible things happen with uleration right up into their jaw bone etc and it seems true to me that these cases are largely prevented these days via antibiotics and / or propholactic removal...
It seems less clear to me that these things are prevented by the routine filling that we engage in.
Do you remember when we used to fill people's mouthes with mercury? Then we found mercury was toxic. Who would have thought mercury would be toxic?! What do we fill them with these days? What reason do we have to believe that it is any the less toxic?
It makes you easier to identify on autopsy, however. Even if there are less teeth...
Posted by baseball55 on August 27, 2017, at 19:29:03
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » baseball55, posted by alexandra_k on August 26, 2017, at 19:30:23
Oh, we brushed regularly. My parents were quite strict about that. Candy/sweets - I couldn't get enough, though I was not unusual in that. But my brothers and sisters and I would go to the dentist every year and he would say: Claire has one cavity, Jay has no cavities, Sandy has 2 cavities and Nell (me) has 13 cavities. So my teeth were pretty much ruined by the time I was in my 20s.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2017, at 2:38:29
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets?, posted by baseball55 on August 27, 2017, at 19:29:03
> Oh, we brushed regularly. My parents were quite strict about that. Candy/sweets - I couldn't get enough, though I was not unusual in that. But my brothers and sisters and I would go to the dentist every year and he would say: Claire has one cavity, Jay has no cavities, Sandy has 2 cavities and Nell (me) has 13 cavities. So my teeth were pretty much ruined by the time I was in my 20s.
Ah. I see. Thanks for explaining more. Helps me appreciate a bit more of where you are coming from.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2017, at 2:38:03
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets?, posted by alexandra_k on August 26, 2017, at 20:42:17
My dentist sayd that new studies show that flouride in the bloodstream does NOT help?
Posted by alexandra_k on August 29, 2017, at 16:30:58
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2017, at 2:38:03
It isn't about blood level, it's about it being taken up by / incorporated into the teeth.
Something something about it substituting into the carbonate...
The bones, as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxylapatite
I don't know a great deal about this... I wonder if there is a relationship between flouridated water and skeletal fractures...
Posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2017, at 1:55:16
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets? » Lamdage22, posted by alexandra_k on August 29, 2017, at 16:30:58
I think I have familial hypercholesterolemia (like 1:500 people). I wonder whether my vascular system will start to store flouride. I wonder whether my bones will become prone to fracturing from flouride (a harder substance) replacing some of the calcium. I wonder whether I will develop problems with calcium homeostasis (which may perhaps induce mineralisation at distant sites as my body tries to sequester calcium but is clogged with flouride instead)?
Oh the things we could learn about...
I suppose I could drink bottled water. Maybe the bottled water won't contain such high levels of flouride. I wonder about the permeates in plastic. I know that some plastic containers say 'no added permeates' but I wonder about the permeates that are not added. Like how fruit juice contains 'no added sugar' but plenty of sugar from the selective breeding of fruit.
I can't think why on earth else it is that only alcohol is sold in glass bottles, here. Water. Milk. Plastics. Alcohol... Especially the cheap and nasty 'brewed in a vat with who knows what to get a population stoned' comes in glass. So, you know, we have broken glass all over the streets...
There was some tribute to that at some point... Some discount on cans or plastic containers!
I don't know why we allow alcohol to be so readily accessible to our kids... Or why the supermarkets can collect all their supermarket data whereas everyone else has to play dumb that we don't know what the people are eating. It's really... Disingenuous... Why we can't organise local food co-ops (support local farmers) from our residential halls. Why residential halls can't organise recycling from their own kitchens...
It's supposed to be about businesses... I just don't understand what we get from it, what's in it for us such that it is worth our doing business with them.
Perhaps it's about our community being spared from being an exposure population?
Not sure...
Posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2017, at 16:05:26
In reply to Re: Flouride Tablets?, posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2017, at 1:55:16
> I think I have familial hypercholesterolemia (like 1:500 people). I wonder whether my vascular system will start to store flouride. I wonder whether my bones will become prone to fracturing from flouride (a harder substance) replacing some of the calcium. I wonder whether I will develop problems with calcium homeostasis (which may perhaps induce mineralisation at distant sites as my body tries to sequester calcium but is clogged with flouride instead)?
Actually (coming back to me) the flouride takes the place of the oxygen in the carbonate that binds the calcium. Maybe even 'chelates'. Not sure. So flouride maybe wouldn't affect the calcium binding. Though... If flouride... crystals(?) are harder than calcium crystals(?) then it might affect calcium homeostatis (like how myoglobin binds oxygen more tightly than haemoglobin which affects the kinetics).
I guess calcium deposits where calcium deposits aren't supposed to be are still calcium deposits where calcium deposits aren't supposed to be.
I don't think many of us were supposed to live past about 40.
This is the end of the thread.
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