Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1053395

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

And off I go again

Posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 19:02:53

Funny to be encouraged to leave by SLS. But he's right. This site is toxic to me. It doesn't feel safe.
I say we are not special and I become a target. That is not unusual. But it Is bullying. You see a lot of that here, shrouded in civility or up front.

So I will protect myself. And take my leave, everyone's benefit. Well done Scott, Alexandra, Dr. Bob. You have a nice little world here, even though it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Goodbye. For good this time, I promise.

 

Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy

Posted by Poet on October 30, 2013, at 19:37:34

In reply to And off I go again, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 19:02:53

I wish you wouldn't go, it's not to my benefit if you go, I'm sorry you felt bullied, and I get not feeling safe.

Babblemail me anytime.

Poet

 

Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy

Posted by baseball55 on October 30, 2013, at 20:37:14

In reply to And off I go again, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 19:02:53

I wish you wouldn't do that PC. I can understand your frustration, but disagreements and misunderstandings are bound to occur. Just because someone disagrees or misunderstands your post doesn't mean you are being ostracized or rejected. The more we communicate and keep connected, the better off we all are. Even if communicating feels frustrating sometimes. I value your input.

 

Re: And off I go again baseball55

Posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 8:19:28

In reply to Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy, posted by baseball55 on October 30, 2013, at 20:37:14

If it wasn't two on one I might feel differently. Alex is against me (btw, there is no such thing as a do not post to me rule),- and Scott invited me to leave.
Not that I know him well, but he is well regarded.
It feels a lot like "Lord of the Flies".That's bad enough as it is. And no, I am not special: there are many people who have come and left here because of being bullied.
Shame.

 

Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 8:32:27

In reply to And off I go again, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 19:02:53

> Funny to be encouraged to leave by SLS. But he's right. This site is toxic to me. It doesn't feel safe.
> I say we are not special and I become a target. That is not unusual. But it Is bullying. You see a lot of that here, shrouded in civility or up front.
>
> So I will protect myself. And take my leave, everyone's benefit. Well done Scott, Alexandra, Dr. Bob. You have a nice little world here, even though it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
>
> Goodbye. For good this time, I promise.


Don't put this on anyone else. It's on you.

If you would like not to have people disagree with you on an Internet forum, then perhaps you best not post intellectual challenges.

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20130930/msgs/1053331.html

"One of the first things I learned in therapy is that the disorders that bring us into session lead us to believe that we are unique and special. Unfortunately, or fortunately, this just isn't so."

What was your motivation to post this? Had someone here asked about it?

Was I uncivil to you? How did I hurt you or make Psycho-Babble any less safe for you? I don't understand why you are so angry. I sometimes still get a little defensive when I am challenged. Did you get defensive when I first asked you what you meant by using the word "special"?

It could have been an interesting discussion. I wish you were still to be here to participate. You might have received some disagreement by others at first, but who knows how much insight could have come from a dialectic.

Is it bullying or, rather, assertiveness that you have observed in me or the other people you mentioned?

Finally, what in the hell do I need to bully you for? You are not so special that I would dedicate such resources to in a vain attempt to assert my ego, right?

:-(

You were not a target.

I sometimes confuse disagreement with disapproval or personal attack. Defensiveness is an annoying vestige of my earlier years. I am still an work in progress. I hope always to be.

If you ever decide to come back, I would love to revisit your challenge suggesting that there is no specialness or uniqueness to be found in the individual.

Good luck.


- Scott

 

Re: And off I go again SLS

Posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 8:44:15

In reply to Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 8:32:27

SLS, bullying does not make you (who invited me to leave Babble)or me special.
It makes you look like a bombastic word twisting pug.
I don't care to enter into a conversation with you, because I've seen at length how you love the back and forth of counting the numbers of angels on the head of a pin. Frankly, that is not my interest.
I am simply here trying to feel better. Not worse. Feel free to post to me, but I might overlook it.
pc

 

Re: And off I go again SLS

Posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2013, at 10:05:03

In reply to Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 8:32:27

Scott I tend to agree with PC. Some how lately you seem to be trying to push other's buttons. Why have no idea but have noticed it in other posts before. I can't remember whos so don't ask. But what happened to the helpful caring person I knew you as? Now I feel that a lot not all that you post is meant to push buttons. This is only how I feel not a fact. But actually I've wondered why for a while now? As one of the most helpful and caring people seems to have left the building so to speak. Phillipa

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by gadchik on October 31, 2013, at 10:42:57

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 31, 2013, at 10:05:03

I also feel same as Phillipa. Doesnt mean it's a fact, just the way we are perceiving it.

 

Re: And off I go again SLS

Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:32:05

In reply to Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 8:32:27

>I sometimes confuse disagreement with disapproval or personal attack.

Yes you do, as do I.

>Defensiveness is an annoying vestige of my earlier years.

I learned, rightly or wrongly from bullying at school, never to defend myself, at least directly. Which doesn't mean I'm not defensive.

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:43:59

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:32:05

Actually, thinking of stories we tell ourselves, one I tell myself is that there is a little power maniac in me (if not in you!).

I simply couldn't think of what these stories might be. (This is from PC's post on psych.) Surely I thought I must have some stories about myself.
I have, after all, been complaining for 60 years. I must remember something even if I'm not that interested now.
The sky changes colour very quickly at this time of day.

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:55:13

In reply to Re: And off I go again, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:43:59

It may not be a story but it is (was) a sentence (now it is 3).

Winning and losing are different but both are unpleasant. Losing is humiliating. Winning is irritating and boring.

The Duke of Wellington said something similar about winning and battle fields.

One day my wife greatly flattered me by saying 'It's so nice being alone with you'. 'Yes' I replied 'And nothing is happening, it costs nothing, it is lovely and you can't buy it.'

 

Re: And off I go again sigismund

Posted by PartlyCloudy on October 31, 2013, at 14:21:21

In reply to Re: And off I go again, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 13:43:59

> Actually, thinking of stories we tell ourselves, one I tell myself is that there is a little power maniac in me (if not in you!).
>
> I simply couldn't think of what these stories might be. (This is from PC's post on psych.) Surely I thought I must have some stories about myself.

These are simply the beliefs we hold about ourselves: I am depressed, I am stupid, I am brilliant, I am worthless, I am incredibly smart. these are all stories we tell about ourselves.

Currently I have a story that I half believe in, that is I am being bullied. i am pretty sure it isn't true, but someone could be happy with me believing this.

> I have, after all, been complaining for 60 years. I must remember something even if I'm not that interested now.
> The sky changes colour very quickly at this time of day.

but it is the same sun that rises and sets every day. Our perception changes. It's all good.

 

Re: And off I go again PartlyCloudy

Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 14:46:03

In reply to Re: And off I go again sigismund, posted by PartlyCloudy on October 31, 2013, at 14:21:21

Here's a story about our social mind these days. A bloke came round to do some tiling. The ranger (a kind of sheriff for dogs and the homeless) had been round to his place and told him to keep his dog in/on his property. The (poor) ranger had been required to tell every dog owner on this country road the same thing. Because a man liked to walk his dog on this road and did not want dogs coming to greet or bark at his dog while he walked it.

I was kind of impressed. We ban plants, now we are taking action against the behaviour of dogs. Each unhappy dog on his own patch. In Cusco people locked their dogs out of the house while they were out, and the dogs just lounged around in the street together.


We're clearly nuts. I live in the sort of area that has signs painted on the ground 'Lose the ego, this is ...........'

 

Re: And off I go again sigismund

Posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 15:29:38

In reply to Re: And off I go again PartlyCloudy, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 14:46:03

And we embrace the nuttiness of the situation - because that is what is happening - or we make ourselves unhappy, wishing things would go back to the way things used to be.

That is the philosophy I try to embrace.

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2013, at 18:19:30

In reply to Re: And off I go again sigismund, posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 15:29:38

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens.

 

Re: And off I go again SLS

Posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 19:39:21

In reply to Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 8:32:27

Scott - You did say something to the effect of -- maybe you're not safe here. Which could certainly be read as -- maybe you should just go away.

I like you alot and respect your posts, but think it was an ill-considered remark.

 

Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy

Posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 19:47:48

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 8:44:15

PC - I hope you and Scott can bury the hatchet. As Sig said, and as we all know, internet forums can get weird. There's no body language or history together to fall back on. People dash things off without thinking so clearly about them. Scott seems to me basically a great guy who wants to be helpful. You seem to me to be a great woman who wants to be helpful.

I hope you will both stay and keep connected.

> SLS, bullying does not make you (who invited me to leave Babble)or me special.
> It makes you look like a bombastic word twisting pug.
> I don't care to enter into a conversation with you, because I've seen at length how you love the back and forth of counting the numbers of angels on the head of a pin. Frankly, that is not my interest.
> I am simply here trying to feel better. Not worse. Feel free to post to me, but I might overlook it.
> pc

 

Re: And off I go again baseball55

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 21:14:00

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by baseball55 on October 31, 2013, at 19:39:21

> Scott - You did say something to the effect of -- maybe you're not safe here. Which could certainly be read as -- maybe you should just go away.
>
> I like you alot and respect your posts, but think it was an ill-considered remark.

Why did you not seek out my exact verbiage?

Scott: "I'm sorry that you feel Psycho-Babble is no longer a safe place to be. You are probably right."

Did it ever cross anyone's mind that I was in agreement with PC?

Nice.

At this point in the conversation, I had no reason to be belligerent.

PC: "Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence.
You know where you can put it, I think."

Nice.

It might be instructive to start here and read the posts in order and pay attention to exact verbiage:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20130930/msgs/1053331.html

I would be curious to know where you might find the first sign of provocation.

I hope that I may be allowed my anger as one would allow that of others. Despite my anger, I still try to remain civil. Incivility I left for another thread.


- Scott

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 21:30:12

In reply to Re: And off I go again baseball55, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 21:14:00

> I hope that I may be allowed my anger as one would allow that of others. Despite my anger, I still try to remain civil. Incivility I left for another thread.

Pardon my confusion. It was this thread in which I was uncivil.

Scott: "Finally, what in the hell do I need to bully you for? You are not so special that I would dedicate such resources to in a vain attempt to assert my ego, right?"

This passage was meant to be sarcastic and rhetorical with respect to specialness and hungry egos. I see no way to rephrase it to make it more civil or otherwise palatable. This was ill-considered, and I apologize to PC for having posted it.


- Scott

 

Re: And off I go again SLS

Posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 21:48:19

In reply to Re: And off I go again, posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 21:30:12

Thank you for granting me the ordinary. That is what I strive for. I am not really intellectually up to or mentally capable of the type of discourse that you might want from someone, say, closer to your degree. (Not speaking of education, but of ability).

I am dumb as a sack of rocks regarding most intellectual things.
On the other hand, I know how I feel, quite vividly.

See ya.

 

Re: And off I go again Partlycloudy

Posted by SLS on October 31, 2013, at 23:26:32

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 21:48:19

> I am dumb as a sack of rocks regarding most intellectual things.

This might be true. I wouldn't know. However, I thought your thread, "Thinking we are special" was thought-provoking and definitely intellectual. It was also challenging to conventional thought. This was what I meant by "challenge". I do wish that there had been an opportunity for discussion about your topic before misunderstandings got in the way.


- Scott

 

Re: And off I go again

Posted by Angela2 on November 1, 2013, at 0:08:44

In reply to Re: And off I go again SLS, posted by Partlycloudy on October 31, 2013, at 21:48:19

PC, I think you're awesome. Just do what is best for you. Though, as long as I'm here, I hope u stay :)

 

Snowflakes and a melting community

Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2013, at 7:39:22

In reply to And off I go again, posted by Partlycloudy on October 30, 2013, at 19:02:53

FWIW, which likely isn't much because I haven't read every post, it appears that language and the interpretation of language is getting in the way.

Overall how it struck me is that Alex has been struggling lately with feeling out of step with the mainstream of her offline life, and looking forward to getting what she needs as a result of being diagnosed as different - or special if you like. Yet there appears to be a real struggle involved and it's a very current struggle, and hence a very tender area. I am interpreting, Alex, and hope you tell me if I'm wrong.

PC then posted something, likely totally unrelated to Alex's post, about none of us being special. Something that came from her own experiences and is valuable to her in helping her deal with the world. It's an interesting argument, and my own personal take is like Scott's. I think we come from a similar theological viewpoint, which likely influences that. We're a world of special unique snowflakes. Each of us is special. Each of us is unique. But we're among millions of other special unique beings. There it all turns on what it means to be special and unique and what it means to be like everyone else. And that might be something that differs from person to person based on everything from experience to theology.

That's why groups and friendships often form among those who are "different" in similar ways.

As far as Scott's post, I haven't read a lot lately, so don't know if his general posting style has changed, but I read what he said as something cool and detached but not unsupportive. Sort of the sort of thing Dr. Bob tells me sometimes that does indeed make me feel like he said "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." Even though I know intellectually that he isn't issuing me an invitation to leave. I took Scott's statement more as something like "Only you can know whether Babble feels safe to you or not. You need to assess that. Does disagreement and pressing each other's buttons make you feel unsafe? Because that's often enough happened here that it's likely to continue to happen. Can you feel safe when that happens? Can you find a way of feeling safe when people are upset at what you've said?" I didn't see his original statement as angry or rejecting, just an intellectual provocation to thought. Just as PC didn't mean her post as an indictment on Alex's posts lately, Scott didn't mean his post as bullying or an invitation to leave. It's just that we all are interpreting things in accord with what we each "hear", not what each of us "said".

I'm stating what I'm "hearing", which isn't necessarily what you're "saying" of course. So if I have any of you wrong, I hope you'll correct me - with the basic idea that I don't think any of you meant to cause anyone else any pain.

It was an unfortunate misunderstanding I think. But I also think that in a much smaller and self contained Babble it might be a good idea for each of us to stop and try to reassess what we've just "heard". I know Alex, and PC, and Scott. I don't think any of you meant any harm. So I ask all of you to stop and talk - really talk - to one another with the idea that what you "heard" isn't necessarily what was "said". All of us are special and unique, but we all have to live with one another here. We're special and unique, we bring our own sensibilities. But we are all in this together with our and everyone else's sensibilities and life experiences and interpretations. We are special snowflakes in a very small and increasingly small community of snow. We don't want *anyone* to feel like they aren't part of this community or that their viewpoint isn't valued - even if it isn't agreed with - as long as it is respectful to others. I don't see any of what was originally said as disrespectful to others. It isn't until *reactions* got into the dialogue that it got less respectful.

 

Re: Snowflakes and a melting community

Posted by Dinah on November 1, 2013, at 7:45:34

In reply to Snowflakes and a melting community, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2013, at 7:39:22

By groups, I meant things like the women's group I think I heard PC mention. Or groups of students who actually like to study in total silence. Or my Sunday School, which is a subgroup in our church.

Not Babble. Which in some ways is based on our mutual differences from the rest of the world. But of course, once you get into that community of people who struggle with mental health issues, there are of course a million different ways to struggle with mental health issues, and a host of other differences in viewpoints. All of which are ok, as long as our commonalities are kept in mind and as as long as we're civil.

Which of course is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Defining "civil".

 

Re: Snowflakes and a melting community Dinah

Posted by SLS on November 1, 2013, at 7:56:39

In reply to Snowflakes and a melting community, posted by Dinah on November 1, 2013, at 7:39:22

Thank you, Dinah.


- Scott


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