Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1014733

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you.

Posted by free on April 1, 2012, at 18:55:26

Hi Sigi,

You're a Leonard Cohen fan, yes? :)
I would be very interested in hearing your (and anyone else's) thoughts on Cohen's 'Suzanne.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otJY2HvW3Bw

Suzanne takes you down to her place near the river
You can hear the boats go by
You can spend the night beside her
And you know that she's half crazy
But that's why you want to be there
And she feeds you tea and oranges
That come all the way from China
And just when you mean to tell her
That you have no love to give her
Then she gets you on her wavelength
And she lets the river answer
That you've always been her lover
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that she will trust you
For you've touched her perfect body with your mind.

And Jesus was a sailor
When he walked upon the water
And he spent a long time watching
From his lonely wooden tower
And when he knew for certain
Only drowning men could see him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"
But he himself was broken
Long before the sky would open
Forsaken, almost human
He sank beneath your wisdom like a stone
And you want to travel with him
And you want to travel blind
And you think maybe you'll trust him
For he's touched your perfect body with his mind.

Now Suzanne takes your hand
And she leads you to the river
She is wearing rags and feathers
From Salvation Army counters
And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror
And you want to travel with her
And you want to travel blind
And you know that you can trust her
For she's touched your perfect body with her mind.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free

Posted by sigismund on April 1, 2012, at 19:04:16

In reply to Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you., posted by free on April 1, 2012, at 18:55:26

I remember at his first concert he mentioned the name of the woman on whom the song is based. Perhaps it had a non-Anglo feel? Could it have once been a French name?
He mentioned the tea they had. Nothing at all happened, except in his mind. She seems to have been a very good friend of his.

It is the middle bit of each stanza I most like, in particular

And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror

Perhaps I still have the record I had around 40 years ago?

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 2, 2012, at 16:33:34

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free, posted by sigismund on April 1, 2012, at 19:04:16

Sig, you caught Cohen (in his prime) at his very "first" concert? Lucky you!! My gosh, I would have loved to have been there to listen to his firsthand account of his relationship with Suzanne Verdal. And, of course, to hear him sing live. I assumed that she's a Candadian as I've read that 'Suzanne' was written while they were living in Canada, but now that you mention it - Verdal has a French ring to it...so maybe they were in Montreal? Have you heard the sad news that Suzanne has been homeless and living in a camper in Venice, California? Not a happy ending for Cohen's muse...

I've been a die-hard jazz and classical lover most of my life, but lately I've been branching out to other genres of music. And Cohen's rich work has captured my imagination. Sigh.

This part is really quite beautiful isn't it? The surreal images leave me in awe. I think the stars were aligned perfectly when he wrote 'Suzanne.'

And the sun pours down like honey
On our lady of the harbour
And she shows you where to look
Among the garbage and the flowers
There are heroes in the seaweed
There are children in the morning
They are leaning out for love
And they will lean that way forever
While Suzanne holds the mirror

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free

Posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 17:14:43

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 2, 2012, at 16:33:34

Well, it wasn't his very first concert here. It was the first of the last two. He had been here at least once before those.
I spoke to someone who went to that one, it must have been at least 10 years ago, perhaps 20, and this woman said he was 'a dick'.
Then he did the last two concerts, the second last of which was the most extraordinary concert I have ever been to.
It may have been partly because people felt this was their last chance to see him.
There was a real, for want of a better word, religious feel.
Just before he sang Anthem he gave a list of all the drugs, mostly uneuphoric psychiatric ones he had allegedly been taking, a very long list, and then said 'But somehow the cheerfulness kept on breaking through', and then Anthem. It was quite a moment.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 2, 2012, at 18:31:31

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free, posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 17:14:43

> There was a real, for want of a better word, religious feel.
> Just before he sang Anthem he gave a list of all the drugs, mostly uneuphoric psychiatric ones he had allegedly been taking, a very long list, and then said 'But somehow the cheerfulness kept on breaking through', and then Anthem. It was quite a moment.

Oh, wow, amazing. Yeah, I've heard that he's a long-time sufferer of debilitating depression. What a moment...thank you for sharing it with me, Sig.


> I spoke to someone who went to that one, it must have been at least 10 years ago, perhaps 20, and this woman said he was 'a dick'.

Did she say why he was a 'd*ck'?

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free

Posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 23:01:08

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 2, 2012, at 16:33:34

>Have you heard the sad news that Suzanne has been homeless and living in a camper in Venice, California? Not a happy ending for Cohen's muse...

You remember back to around the time of the Clinton administration?

The economy was something different in those days.

The perception of it has really changed, at least mine has.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you.

Posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 23:03:39

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 2, 2012, at 18:31:31

>Did she say why he was a 'd*ck'?

Yes.....the feeling in the concert was not good. I do not remember her saying exactly why, except that he did not seem to care.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you.

Posted by Catbee on April 3, 2012, at 17:21:37

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free, posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 23:01:08

> You remember back to around the time of the Clinton administration?
>
> The economy was something different in those days.
>
> The perception of it has really changed, at least mine has.


Interesting. But then, Leonard Cohen is a prophet. My favourite (a performance on Jools Holland's UK music programme from 1993):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drEFOaPaK8

Cat

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 5, 2012, at 21:01:14

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you., posted by sigismund on April 2, 2012, at 23:03:39

> >Did she say why he was a 'd*ck'?
>
> Yes.....the feeling in the concert was not good. I do not remember her saying exactly why, except that he did not seem to care.

I can see how he might have come off like a d*ck. In an interview, Judy Collins said that Cohen once left the stage during a performance after uttering "I can't go on." Apparently he was insecure about his singing and would get extremely nervous. In later years, he was forced to tour because his manager stole his money, so maybe he resented having to perform.

Who knows with these brilliant, tortured artists? Could be anything. You know?

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you..Sig

Posted by free on April 5, 2012, at 21:13:07

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 5, 2012, at 21:01:14

> Who knows with these brilliant, tortured artists? Could be anything. You know?
>

Oh, and speaking of brilliance...

These answers were brilliant:

"The fugue state? Wonderful word for it. I suppose the thing about musical fugues is that you can get lost in them."
"You'd have to be hopeful. Maybe, I dunno."

They made me LOL and LMAO. Thanks for being you, (Sig).

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you..Sig free

Posted by sigismund on April 6, 2012, at 23:21:32

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you..Sig, posted by free on April 5, 2012, at 21:13:07

That is very kind.

Do you like old fashioned krautrock?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZWfb4kkjkI&feature=related


Not so much getting lost in, but there are bits which seem to go backwards.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 9, 2012, at 13:32:46

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you..Sig free, posted by sigismund on April 6, 2012, at 23:21:32

> Do you like old fashioned krautrock?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZWfb4kkjkI&feature=related
>
> Not so much getting lost in, but there are bits which seem to go backwards.


Krautrock? I'd never heard of the term til now but how apropos for German-rock. Love it.

What uncanny timing you have, Sig...

I was in that weird, bittersweet space where I'm sad but happy, yet empty and hopeful, all at the same time.
And your "katzenmusik" captured that for me. Now I don't feel as alone...less sad and empty.

Thank you, Sig. You're a sweet, special man...yes you are. :)

Free

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free

Posted by sigismund on April 9, 2012, at 18:31:59

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 9, 2012, at 13:32:46

It's more theme and variations than counterpoint.

It feels so south Pacific to me. I get very woozy around part 8, I think it is, the bit that feels like the theme is being dragged backwards through a tunnel.

I notice Michael Rother spent part of his childhood in Pakistan, where I imagine the blue sky and dry air contrasts with the German climate. Not that German music is any stranger to sweetness. I am halfway through a book on the 30 years war. Amazingly complicated.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 9, 2012, at 23:10:51

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free, posted by sigismund on April 9, 2012, at 18:31:59

> It's more theme and variations than counterpoint.
>
> It feels so south Pacific to me. I get very woozy around part 8, I think it is, the bit that feels like the theme is being dragged backwards through a tunnel.
>

Hmmm...South Pacific? That's interesting...I saw the ocean as well at one point. Ok, I'll grab a glass and take another listen, especially around the "woozy" part 8
for the "dragged backwards" effect.


> I notice Michael Rother spent part of his childhood in Pakistan, where I imagine the blue sky and dry air contrasts with the German climate. Not that German music is any stranger to sweetness. I am halfway through a book on the 30 years war. Amazingly complicated.
>

Well, now that you mention it, I do feel a bit of Pakistan's blue sky with the German vibe. Which complicated war are you reading about?

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund

Posted by free on April 9, 2012, at 23:40:39

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. free, posted by sigismund on April 9, 2012, at 18:31:59

> I am halfway through a book on the 30 years war. Amazingly complicated.

Never mind. Ok, "the thirty years war"...as you said above.

Gosh, I'm foggy tonight. I've been on benadryl for insomnia and it's really affecting me. ;)

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you.

Posted by free on April 10, 2012, at 13:50:40

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. sigismund, posted by free on April 9, 2012, at 23:10:51

> > I am halfway through a book on the 30 years war. Amazingly complicated.
> >
> Which complicated war are you reading about?
>

LOL...It's a real "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?" moment!

I'm reading "One Hundred Years of Solitude" by Gabriel Garcia-Marquez. I really wanted to like this 'masterpiece' but I'm ready to toss it into a donation bin.

For someone who's semi-ADHD with PTSD like myself, this '100 years of drivel' about death and incest is a torture to read. Can't keep the characters and the timeline straight; the past and present go backwards and forwards with a bunch of men named Jose. I don't understand this book. Maybe someone who gets it will enlighten me. Hope you're enjoying your "complicated" book, Sig.

 

Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you. Catbee

Posted by free on April 10, 2012, at 14:03:21

In reply to Re: Sigismund: A bit of Leonard Cohen for you., posted by Catbee on April 3, 2012, at 17:21:37

> Interesting. But then, Leonard Cohen is a prophet. My favourite (a performance on Jools Holland's UK music programme from 1993):
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drEFOaPaK8
>
> Cat
>

Hi Cat,

Apologies for not responding sooner.

Thanks for posting the video on my thread, I enjoyed it very much. I don't know if Cohen is a prophet, but he is a rare one-of-a-kind. What an amazing man!


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