Psycho-Babble Social Thread 1010160

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Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 16:11:24

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sleepygirl2, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 14:31:45

I have not heard of Nechi.

You feel like saying anything about him?

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund

Posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 17:47:48

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 16:11:24

I'm not as literate as many people only due to time on the planet have I heard of him, he's a phillosifer who is studied in university like plato, aristatal but maybe he's more current like dofoietski wrote the bothers karmotsoff. from that quote I relate too maybe he's like the one who wrote the gulog acepelligo, Damb it I can't spell anything on this subjrct.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 19:22:46

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 17:47:48

Perhaps this chap?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Nechayev

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 19:28:13

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 19:22:46

He was full of hope though. You do all this so you can create the workers paradise some time in the future.

>A revolutionary "must infiltrate all social formations including the police. He must exploit rich and influential people, subordinating them to himself. He must aggravate the >miseries of the common people, so as to exhaust their patience and incite them to rebel. And, finally, he must ally himself with the savage word of the violent criminal, the >only true revolutionary in Russia".[9]

And like most hope it is unfulfilled.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:40:17

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 17:47:48

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
 

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett

Posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 19:51:17

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:40:17

thats the quote that I relate too so strongly

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:55:23

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:40:17

Oh. My apologies for being so terse. I am not endorsing the no hope thing. I'm just not feeling super and sleep deprived on top.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:01:02

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 19:51:17

But how true, or should I say how does one interpret that? When is it true?

Sometimes hope is like an endorsement or an agreement to allow something better or different to take place. An agreement that yes this really is abysmal and we are now working with (non-secular if you will) positive faith...?

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:14:12

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:01:02

I meant secular for me. See? I am tired.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:15:08

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 19:51:17

EM Cioran always makes me laugh, so I went looking for quotes from him about hope. I found

>We would not be interested in human beings if we did not have the hope of someday meeting someone worse off than ourselves.


>Everything is pathology, except for indifference.

I must get hold of 'Thinking against the Self" again. It was one of the most exhilarating essays I have read. I didn't know what to make of it.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:19:02

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:15:08

From wiki........

Pessimism characterizes all of his works, which many critics trace back to events of his childhood (in 1935 his mother is reputed to have told him that if she had known he was going to be so unhappy she would have aborted him). However, Cioran's pessimism (in fact, his skepticism, even nihilism) remains both inexhaustible and, in its own particular manner, joyful; it is not the sort of pessimism which can be traced back to simple origins, single origins themselves being questionable. When Cioran's mother spoke to him of abortion, he confessed that it did not disturb him, but made an extraordinary impression which led to an insight about the nature of existence ("I'm simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?" is what he later said in reference to the incident)[cite this quote].

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:23:25

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:19:02

Where is he from? Joyful pessimism is interesting. It's all up from there.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:23:25

I looked him up. Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_Cioran

The NYT obit said his work was born of seven years of insomnia. Ouch. http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/22/obituaries/e-m-cioran-84-novelist-and-philosopher-of-despair.html

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 20:59:11

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48

He's a humourist.....

>However much I have frequented the mystics, deep down I have always sided with the Devil; unable to equal him in power, I have tried to be worthy of him, at least, in >insolence, acrimony, arbitrariness and caprice."

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett

Posted by Phillipa on February 18, 2012, at 21:01:05

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 20:35:48

Hijack my friend was on latunda has insomnia so being switched to another. And horrible sinus problems from it. No sapris mentioned.Phillipa

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett

Posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 21:15:43

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 19:55:23

endorsing no hope is a worthy statagy, hope will lead to pain. I'm to restless to give up hope.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 21:22:31

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » Beckett, posted by torrid2 on February 18, 2012, at 21:15:43

I might be getting ready to give up some hope. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 23:17:16

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » torrid2, posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 21:22:31

You have no hope of giving up hope :)

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sigismund

Posted by Beckett on February 18, 2012, at 23:38:25

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sigismund on February 18, 2012, at 23:17:16

You have outed me I'm afraid.

 

Re: Hope is a dangerous thing

Posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 7:32:17

In reply to Re: Hope is a dangerous thing » sleepygirl2, posted by 10derheart on February 13, 2012, at 18:32:29

> I get that, but....
>
> ..wouldn't imagining that things can *never* (= hopelessness) be different make reality feel even worse than that?
>
> I've always found the absence of hope to be dangerous to every aspect of my health...it's as essential to me as meds, therapy, family, faith....

Hope has kept me alive for the 3 decades since my first antidepressant trial failed.

I think that hoping for something imagined that cannot ever be is dangerous, not hope itself. It guarantees perpetual disappointment and demoralization. It produces instant hopelessness if one believes that what is imagined is impossible.

Perhaps there are two kinds of hope: sighted and blind. I have always been able to maintain sighted hope because I always saw logical alternatives for addressing my plight. When I ran out of things to see, I lost much of my hope. All I had left was to choose whether to live or die with the pain. I was not prepared to die. So, I had to hope that something beyond my imagination would happen to save me. This is blind hope. I guess blind hope is necessary when one continues to hope for things that they believe can never be. Of course, a belief can be wrong. I try to allow for the existence of uncertainty. In the absence of sighted hope, uncertainty allows for the continuation of blind hope.

But what do I know? These things are what apply to me. They may not apply to anyone else.


- Scott

 

I used to like this poem

Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 19, 2012, at 12:00:28

In reply to Hope is a dangerous thing, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 13, 2012, at 17:54:48

http://www.online-literature.com/dickinson/827/


Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,

And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.

I've heard it in the chilliest land
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.

 

Re: I used to like this poem

Posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 21:40:58

In reply to I used to like this poem, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 19, 2012, at 12:00:28

> http://www.online-literature.com/dickinson/827/
>
>
> Hope is the thing with feathers
> That perches in the soul,
> And sings the tune without the words,
> And never stops at all,
>
> And sweetest in the gale is heard;
> And sore must be the storm
> That could abash the little bird
> That kept so many warm.
>
> I've heard it in the chilliest land
> And on the strangest sea;
> Yet, never, in extremity,
> It asked a crumb of me.


I like it.

Do you still like it?


- Scott

 

Re: I used to like this poem » SLS

Posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45

In reply to Re: I used to like this poem, posted by SLS on February 19, 2012, at 21:40:58

I guess I still do.
Pessimism is getting the better of me.

 

Re: I used to like this poem » sleepygirl2

Posted by Beckett on February 20, 2012, at 9:12:09

In reply to Re: I used to like this poem » SLS, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45

Not for long sg.

 

Re: I used to like this poem

Posted by sigismund on February 20, 2012, at 18:26:57

In reply to Re: I used to like this poem » SLS, posted by sleepygirl2 on February 20, 2012, at 8:49:45

Here's a book I want to read....

"The Uses of Pessimism"


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