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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 18:55:11
In reply to Re: Fear regarding science **trigger** » Michael83, posted by Racer on January 27, 2008, at 18:43:24
Thank you for your response Racer. I understand what you're saying.
But I'm so scared right now. I've been pacing back and forth, my entire body shaking. Almost to the point where I'm going to cry.
I need to see someone this week. A psychiatrist. But I only have dental insurance. I don't know if it's possible for me to see someone quickly about it. If a university hospital has something.
I don't know what to do. I'm so scared.
Posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 19:51:50
In reply to Fear regarding science experiment, new update., posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 0:09:49
I'm going to formulate a plan to help me.
This week this is what I want to do.
1. Call an insurance agent, get a quote for health insurance and see how long it would take from the time I sign up until it takes effect.
2. See if there are any mental health services for the uninsured.
3. If possible, get a psychological evaluation from a professional. I'm sure they might offer like a "free consultation" or something.
4. Talk to my childhood Priest and tell him that I do believe in God and Jesus and that I am so so sorry for my sins. Deep down I always did believe. I was just confused. If possible, tell him about my issues.
5. Draft a email to send to college professors who teach/deal in theoretical physics, asking them their opinion on the danger of this experiment. I'm going to try to email at least 50, maybe 100. I don't expect to get a response from all of them, so I will make up for that in higher volume.
If I or anyone else can think of anything else I can do to help myself, please give me your advice.
I'm so scared. My eyes are watering. I'm going to go to bed early and get a good sleep for tomorrow. Maybe I'll feel better then.
Goodnite for tonight everyone. I love everyone here. I'll keep you updated.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on January 27, 2008, at 20:01:13
In reply to This is what I'm going to do., posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 19:51:50
it sounds really sensible, at least to me. Try not to sound too emotional in your e-mails, as it could bias their responses to you. Physicist deal in objectivity.
I'm gonna go eat some wasabi peas now.
Post on the psychology board if you want to know more about psychotherapy. We'd love to have you over there!
-Ll
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on January 27, 2008, at 20:13:10
In reply to This is what I'm going to do., posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 19:51:50
Honestly...I have found my depression to be pretty much the opposite of what you are experiencing.
I guess it's because I lost what could be said where the two most important things to me in my life: a child and a lifelong soul mate. (Literally...I did lose them, to death of course.) After that I just felt like "Bahh..we are just between the Ice Ages anyways...I don't care about tomorrow. Tomorrow has come for me...it spit in my face and crippled me, so I really just DON'T CARE." I still resign that to myself sometimes too, because I feel us f***ing 'humans' have screwed the world up so bad, I take a bit of heart in that it's going to come to an end for the human race sooner or later. It's just a matter of time. I personally am not afraid of dying. I am afraid of living old and alone, empty, seeing all the people I love go one by one. Religion may help, but there of course is never no 100 percent written money-back guarantee...heh.Jay
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2008, at 20:19:17
In reply to Re: This is what I'm going to do. » Michael83, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on January 27, 2008, at 20:13:10
Jay know the feelings of loss as Mother died age l7 and literally raised myself. Love Phillipa.
Posted by seldomseen on January 27, 2008, at 21:43:20
In reply to This is what I'm going to do., posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 19:51:50
That sounds like a good good plan. Please let us know how you are progressing with it.
Are you in school? A lot of institutions have mental health services for their students.
That's how I got hooked in.Seldom.
Posted by Racer on January 27, 2008, at 21:51:59
In reply to Re: Fear regarding science **trigger** » Racer, posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 18:55:11
> > I don't know what to do. I'm so scared.
OK, I don't know if this will help, but let's give it a try:What is the experiment? One of my very best friends is a particle physicist who manages to explain things so that I can understand them. Tell me the experiment, or post a link to a website about it, and I'll see what he has to say.
If he says not to worry, I trust him that I really and truly do not need to worry.
Posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 16:19:26
In reply to Re: Fear regarding science **trigger** » Michael83, posted by Racer on January 27, 2008, at 21:51:59
Thank you Racer. By the end of tomorrow I will make a post here explaining what it is and what I'm concerned about. Right now I'm reading up on it so I can properly communicate the problem in my emails. I really appreciate it. Thanks.
Posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 16:23:46
In reply to This is what I'm going to do., posted by Michael83 on January 27, 2008, at 19:51:50
I think I'm going to hold off talking to a mental health person unless I have another attack like I did last night. Right now I'm at the calmest I've been in the last 36 hours.
Instead of talking to my childhood Priest, I may just go to confession or something similar at his church. I don't want to bother anyone if I don't need to.
I'm still going to draft an email to send to professors and see what they think.
What changed today is that I read more about the fellow who made these claims and he is not as well versed in physics are he should be. In fact, he made a thread on the science forum I posted on that he started in 2001, which is still going today over 1,200 replies. I'm going to try to read as much of it as I can. So far in the first few pages people already debunked his claims and think he's a nut. He claimed disaster would strike back in 2001, but since then the energy levels of the experiment has increase probably 10 times (perhaps more) and nothing has remotely gone wrong. Most intelligent people on the forum have debunked his claims, so it's making me feel a lot better.
Posted by seldomseen on January 28, 2008, at 17:26:47
In reply to Update, posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 16:23:46
It does sound as though you had a panic attack last night, although it may be a little protracted. I'm so glad you are feeling better.
Anxiety is the worst, it's just the absolute worst. The sense of doom, coupled with all of the physical symptoms - it can be very draining. The mantra I'm following is: walk, talk and drink water. When I'm alone, or it's late, I do a mental distraction exercise like counting backward from 1000 by sevens. Sometimes I manage it, sometimes I don't.
I do wish you would implement your plan as written however, these symptoms tend to return and I would hate to see you suffer.
Regarding the science experiment, I know which one you are talking about, because you have posted about it before. I think you're right - it is scary. Uncertainty always is. I think you are right to collect as much information as you can.
I think the more you take action, the better, and more in control, you will feel.
Seldom.
Posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 19:32:36
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by seldomseen on January 28, 2008, at 17:26:47
You're right, they are draining. Even though I got a lot of sleep last night (albeit nervous sleep) I was still tired all day. =(
>>>I do wish you would implement your plan as written however, these symptoms tend to return and I would hate to see you suffer.
I think it would take a while for me to get mental help from a professional. I don't have insurance, does anyone know if it is possible for me to get help? I should call an insurance agent and ask. Is there anywhere else I can call? I'm certain it takes like 3 months after you sign up for the insurance before it takes effect. 3 months, that's just too long. =(
I hate feeling like this. It makes me feel helpless. Brings me to tears.
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2008, at 20:06:56
In reply to Re: Update » seldomseen, posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 19:32:36
Michael any ER will provide a psych consult or advise you of a clinic that doesn't require insurance or a sliding scale. Phillipa
Posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 20:22:58
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2008, at 20:06:56
I would feel self conscious going to the ER. I don't want to take up resources that could go to someone with a heart attack or something.
If I just walked in and asked them where to go I wonder what they'd do. Or if there was a place I could call.
I'm also scared they might forcefully admit me to somewhere or something, against my will. I think I once read on here someone had that happen to them and it only made matters worse. I don't need a straight jacket, I'm just terribly scared (albeit to the point where I'm cry and shaking) and need someone to talk to.
I'm going to wait until I email the professors. If they give me an overall positive response, that might help me a lot. Right now I'm at a manageable level of stress. Not like yesterday when I was seriously panicking. Just a little shaky today.
Thanks for replying Phillipa, you're a wonderful person. Everyone else here is too, even if you just read the thread and not replied. I'm crying a bit and I'm going to go to bed. I chatted with one of my friends and it helped a bit just a few minutes ago. Goodnite everyone.
Posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2008, at 20:52:49
In reply to Re: Update » Phillipa, posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 20:22:58
Call a crisis line and if you went to an ER they would triage you that means the sickest people heart attacks get treated first. Is there a psch clinic near you there is one here. If so you can go there and they can help you assess whether you need treatment or not. Phillipa
Posted by Racer on January 29, 2008, at 13:25:47
In reply to Re: Update » seldomseen, posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 19:32:36
>
>
> I think it would take a while for me to get mental help from a professional. I don't have insurance, does anyone know if it is possible for me to get help? I should call an insurance agent and ask. Is there anywhere else I can call? I'm certain it takes like 3 months after you sign up for the insurance before it takes effect. 3 months, that's just too long. =(
>Yes, it's possible for you to get help, even without insurance. What's more, the coverage would begin when the policy started -- there isn't a three month delay. (Sometimes when you get a new job, they don't start your insurance coverage for a period of time, but that's the employer -- not the insurance.) Sometimes there's a delay before a policy will cover pre-existing conditions, and some pre-existing conditions won't be covered at all. That depends on the insurance policy -- and many insurance companies have a list of the conditions they consider to be pre-existing exclusions. When I got insurance after being uninsured for a decade, I was worried that they wouldn't cover my pre-existing conditions, like depression. When I called, though, they looked at their list, and said that none of mine were listed. So, depression, arthritis, etc, were all covered from day one.
As for getting help without insurance, there are a number of options for you -- none of which involve walking into an ER. (Most ERs will charge you, which you'd like to avoid.)
Check your local telephone book -- in the front, they should have a crisis intervention number, or a suicide hotline. Either of those will be able to offer a list of local referrals for accessible treatment.
There may be some local "warm lines" listed -- those are for people who need someone to talk to right now, but are not suicidal. They'll also have a list of referrals.
The county health department should have referrals, too.
I checked the NAMI site, and called them for local suggestions.
Are you in school? If so, your school's health services should have both counseling and referral lists.
Check the local yellow pages under psychologists or mental health. Sometimes counselors will have a small notice in their ads saying they offer a sliding scale.
Check for low cost health clinics or free clinics -- they'll have resource lists, too, which will show low cost counselors.
There are a lot of options for getting help when you don't have insurance. I won't lie to you about it -- many of these options are not great, many times it's hard to find a good fit for you, and some areas really don't have much to offer. Still, it's well worth trying.
Also, there's a book called "Mind Over Mood" which is a sort of do-it-yourself CBT workbook. You might find it helpful in the interim.
Good luck.
Posted by Kath on January 29, 2008, at 19:41:56
In reply to Update, posted by Michael83 on January 28, 2008, at 16:23:46
Hi Michael,
I'm so glad you're feeling so much better!
May it long continue.
(((((((you)))))))))
Kath
Posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:07:05
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by Racer on January 29, 2008, at 13:25:47
Hello Racer, I've been gradually feeling better and better. But I saved your post on my computer in case I ever need it and I really thank you.
**triggers below - not read if easily scared**
For your friend the physicist, what I am concerned about is the Tevatron and the new soon to be operating LHC (Large Hadron Collider) in Switzerland. Tevatron operates at almost 1 TeV (teraelectronvolt) and the new LHC will operate at 7 TeV and concerns were raised by some outsiders who thought operating at such energies would cut a whole in our dimension and access what is known as the de Sitter Universe, which is a not yet proven, but often hypothesized universe which would be a complete vacuum, which if accessed, would exert enough energy to cause...let's just say a large explosion.
The good news is, people have brought up this concern since 1995 and Tevatron's energies have been increased (I think) at least 10 times over and nothign has happened. Most scientists have laughed off the notion and it's been thoroughly researched. But the few who insist it's dangerous persist. In 2002, scientists from Tevatron released a tongue-in-cheek press release after upping the energies at Tevatron a significant amount mocking the nay sayers who said it would be dangerous.
Scientists say waves of energy have been bombarding the Earth for years from outerspace at millions and MILLIONS of times more powerful than what Tevatron or LHC could EVER produce (and this is true and undisputed), or what human beings could ever produce in general, and nothing bad has happened. This is why they believe it's safe. The critics (albeit, there are very few of them) say you cannot compare those two types of waves, but most scientists disagree and say they are the same.
In general, I would ask your friend, does he feel these "colliders" are dangerous in any way? Are the scientists correct to assume that waves of energy from outer space are the same as what's being produced inside these colliders? And if they're not harming us (outerspace waves) then neither should the collisions inside the LHC?
There are other concerns like black hole production, but it is said that any black hole created within this machine would be destroyed immediate via Hawking Radiation and it's lifespan would be so short it would not even each the walls of the chamber inside the machine and therefore not be able to devour anything.
Thank you a lot Racer.
Posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:11:10
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by Kath on January 29, 2008, at 19:41:56
Thank you Kath. Percentage wise I'd say the improvement between today and yesterday is about the same from Sunday (when I was an absolute wreck) to Monday (where I was calmed down but still shaking), and that's a very good thing. My hands are no longer shaking and I'm a pretty calm now. Alert but calm. And I'm able to do things. Thanks. =)
Posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:15:57
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on January 28, 2008, at 20:52:49
I'm not sure if there is one near me (clinic), but I should find out in case I ever go back into panic mode.
Once summer comes (for reasons I will explain in the summer), I really think I'll be fine. I just need to get through this spring, one day at a time. God will help me. Thanks. =)
Posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:18:16
In reply to Re: Update *triggers, do not read if scared* » Racer, posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:07:05
In the post to you. When writing about that stuff I get a little nervous.
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2008, at 20:19:14
In reply to Re: Update » Phillipa, posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:15:57
Your're welcome and the clinics we have here are free don't know where you live. Phillipa
Posted by Kath on January 29, 2008, at 20:32:40
In reply to Re: Update » Kath, posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:11:10
You know Michael, part of the way I deal with being in this world, is to be somewhat of an Ostrich!!!
There are things which I simply canNOT think about.
We don't have TV, so I don't watch the news.
I don't read the paper.
If I knew or 'followed' some of the things that you know about, I'd probably just be a totaly basket case.
As I said, I practice Orstichism to some extent.
:-) Kath
Posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:47:03
In reply to Re: Update » Michael83, posted by Kath on January 29, 2008, at 20:32:40
You know, the smarter you get, the more you realize that ignorance really is bliss. You're absolutely right. My life would be pretty easy if I just didn't care about stuff like that. I often wonder if these scientists ever get depressed thinking about this stuff all the time or if they can connect with their human side as well as others. I'm nowhere near as smart as even the average science student (on science subjects at least) and it even depresses me.
And you don't have a TV?!?!? Gasp! I couldn't go that far! Stuff on the internet scares me more than TV.
Posted by Kath on January 29, 2008, at 21:07:49
In reply to Re: Update » Kath, posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:47:03
>> And you don't have a TV?!?!? Gasp! I couldn't go that far! Stuff on the internet scares me more than TV.
Disconnected it years ago when son moved to BC; he was the main one who watched it. Hmmm that must have been about 6 or so years ago!!! We just never bothered to hook it up again. We watch videos & DVD's, but not TV. I love to read.
As to the internet, I'm sure I could get scared to death, but I don't go looking around on the internet much at ALL.
hugs, Kath
Posted by caraher on February 2, 2008, at 8:25:28
In reply to Re: Update » Kath, posted by Michael83 on January 29, 2008, at 20:47:03
> I often wonder if these scientists ever get depressed thinking about this stuff all the time or if they can connect with their human side as well as others.
Depends on what you mean by "this stuff" and "all the time." Personally, I have never been as "driven" as people who do research 24/7, which is why I sought the kind of job I have now, where I can teach (and have it be valued), do some research, but also be engaged in things outside physics entirely.
Most of the people I've know who have been successful in science love it and would rather do nothing else. There's a lot of anxiety over things like landing the next grant or getting "scooped" by another research group, but when they get the chance to set aside politics and money and just "do science" they are in their element. So if "this stuff" is the science the answer is no, they mostly don't find it depressing.
This is also part of what makes what you read so scary. The scientist is usually driven mostly by exploring the possibilities. I think this cartoon sums it up: http://xkcd.com/242/ What's scary to you may be a fascinating possibility to the scientist. That's not to say scientists aren't concerned with the possible effects of their work; reading biographies of the physicists who developed the atomic bomb should make that clear. But the "real-world" implications usually isn't the driving force for most physicists (sometimes they're just a handy way to solicit funding!).
This is the end of the thread.
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