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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 13:05:40
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
Actually, the book gives a better understanding than the movie, though the movie is good.
And, of course I'm thinking of going to San Diego. Unless there is a conflict you can count on it.
So - study hard. And I'm a pretty good study mentor so if you want to email me I can help you with motivation.
Posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:17:43
In reply to Re: Deneb » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 14:47:35
**********Dear Deneb - Wow - look at how open you're being in the copy of your post below. I see (as I saw in a post of yours not too long ago) what seems like a more open mature way of really LOOKING at things! I think congratulations are in order for this. Please continue to read my comment below..*******
> I don't know why. I just feel trapped. I feel like my life is ruined because I'm probably on academic probation now. I OD to cope. I dunno. I think I want to get sick and go to the hospital again. I think I like the attention and caring responses.
>
> I think I'm trying to elicit a caring response from people and I'm trying to escape life.
>**************so far so good as to insight, openness, etc. Please continue..****
> I'm a horrible person. ********No you're not! Sounds more like you're trying to get your needs met. What's so darned horrible about that? OK maybe it's not the best way to go about getting your needs met, but the fact that you could LOOK at it & analyze it & Jeez - admit it!!! I hope you're proud of that....I think you should be proud of that! If you've OD'd or thought about it or played with it before, then it's the way you're used to thinking/acting. It could be a 'knee-jerk' response - you feel that way; this is how you've reacted before; you react this way out of habit. Well there are different ways of reacting & you can learn them. I suspect there's a therapist or counsellor on campus? If so, I hope you enlist their help. They're used to students' problems, stresses, etc.
As to your Mom, sounds like she's from not only a different generation, but a different cultural background. Have you seen the movie The Joy Luck Club? It's a pretty wrenching movie, but it's pretty amazing also. About Moms & Daughters. I'm just a white/been-in-Canana-for-a couple of generations woman, but even so, the difference in how my Mom looked at things (when she was alive) & how I look at things & how my daughter looks at things is striking. Add coming from a different cultural background into the 'cooking pot' & things get really complicated. I suggest watching The Joy Luck Club if you haven't already seen it. Get the old Kleenex box ready though - when my daughter & I watched it, it was a 26-tissue movie!!!!!!!!!!! I just think it might make a little clearer how having a Mom from a different culture from the one you're living in, can be really hard.
I doubt you're lazy Deneb. You sure aren't lazy for missing a few classes!!!
But hey! - even if you WERE lazy, being lazy isn't the most heinous crime on the face of the Earth. Being mean is a lot worse & you're sure not mean!!!!!You haven't ruined your Life. So - what if you mucked up a year of your life. What if you had to repeat a year of your schooling? OK - keep track of how much money your parents would have "wasted" on that year. Write it down. Later, even some years later, you can pay them that money back.
It might be feeling frustrating for your Mother to know that they've payed a certain amount of money for your education & to perceive that you're not doing what SHE might have done if she had that opportunity. Parents - or a lot of us - have a bad habit of expecting our kids to do what we WANT them to do - or what we MIGHT do if we were in their situation. Then we can judge them on THAT. Like giving your kid piano lessons without even really finding out if they even particularly WANT piano lessons......and then being righteously upset that they aren't practising very much & don't even seem to care! That type of thing.
Anyway, I wish you the best & I hope that you can learn that it's OK to screw up sometimes. Who among us is perfect????
There's a superb book called, "When I Say No I Feel Guilty". It is a GREAT book. It's probably available from the library. I think it'd be good for you to broswe...even if you only read the "Assertive Bill of Rights" at the front.
The other thing is this: there's a method called 'fogging' I think it's called. When somebody is ranting or whatever, you can pick something from what they're saying that's true, or might be true & acknowledge it. I think it might help in talking with your Mom. But it might not also!!! LOL I was thinking that after her rant you could say, "Hey Mom, I can see how you might see me as being lazy, and how that would be really upsetting for you. I'm going to go away right now & think about it. If I find it true, I'm going to see what I can do about it. But this much I know, Mom. That the more you are upset with me like this about it, the harder it is for me to deal with it & improve. I don't mean any disrespect, but I need to deal with this calmly." or something like that. Obviously I don't know her....something like that might make her say, "HA!!! So you admit it!!!!" or whatever!!
Anyway Deneb. I hope you can stop beating yourself up in various different ways...either by ODing or berating yourself. You - like ALLLLLL of us - are not perfect. Nor are you in any danger of BEING perfect any time soon, if you're like most of us!!! It seems to me like you're a nice person; a caring person; a sensitive person. Those are important things.
I send you biggie hugs, luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
Hey Deneb -
One more thing.....please call the Emergency Dept of your local hospital or a Mental Health Agency or something & get the telephone # of a Crisis Line.
I would think there'd be one. You should be able to get it by phoning a hospital or doctor's office, or even the Non-Emergency Police telephone number.
I think you need to have that telephone # on hand always. The minute you start to feel overwhelmed, try giving them a call. Over this last couple of weeks with my son suicidal; psychotic; ETC I've called my local 310-COPE so many times it's not even funny!!! It really helps. I hope you have a local Crisis Line.
luv, Kath
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
Thank-you finelinebob
Thank-you Meri-Tuuli
I think you're right. My Mom was trying to motivate me by calling me lazy. I will prove her wrong.Thank-you ClearSkies
Thank-you laima
You're right. Skipping class for a day is not a disaster.Thank-you one woman cine
You really helped me.Thank-you Phillipa
Thank you MidnightBlue
Thank-you Leo for your poem. It made me feel a little better.
Thank-you Jo UK. Your letter idea is a good one.
Thank-you AuntieMel
Thank-you Farkus
Thank-you Llurpsie_Noodle
Thank-you Kath
Before I wrote this it didn't dawn on me how many people care about me. I thank everyone who has thought of me. ((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:40:54
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
I want to reply to many of you more in depth. Just give me some time.
I love you all.
Deneb*
Posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
>
> Deneb*
>Woo-hoo! I'm going to print that last line out, Deneb! :-)
I'm glad that you can see the positive effect that babble can have on us. It really can support us during difficult times.CS
Posted by leo33 on January 15, 2007, at 19:16:10
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone » Deneb, posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
Your Welcome, I am glad that we could help. You still have gratitude in you and that is a good thing. Keep your hope alive!!!!
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 15, 2007, at 20:23:52
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by leo33 on January 15, 2007, at 19:16:10
Deneb,
That's amazing!!! A dozen or so babblers who care can surpass your bob-love!!!WOW!
I feel like I've got my own "essence" somehow!
Thanks for saying that we make a difference. It's hard to know sometimes whether my existence actually makes a difference. thanks again :)
((((warm and fuzzy feelings for Deneb*)))))
-Ll
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 15, 2007, at 20:23:52
I must respectfully disagree with Joy Luck Club...
By extension of Auntie Mel's and Kath's "Joy Luck Club" -
For understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"
watch (or read) One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest to understand the mentally ill.watch the Lone Ranger to understand American Indians...
read (or watch) Huckleberry Finn or the Color purple to understand african americans...
To understand the South, read Flannery O'connor or Tennesee William's "streetcar named desire"
Watch the Sopranos to understand Italian americans.
& on it goes.....
http://www.colorado.edu/ftep/diversity/div06.html
Posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
In reply to Joy Luck Club + stereotypes... - Auntie Mel, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
i'm fairly certain auntie mel wasn't saying that to reinforce stereotypes. i'm sure she was giving an example, which by deneb's description, would help deneb to understand her mother's point of view.
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
Have you ever been the victim of stereotype?
Somehow, when you say "give me a break" - it doesn't seem like you have...
I'm not splitting hairs - I'm serious.
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:20:02
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
> i'm fairly certain auntie mel wasn't saying that to reinforce stereotypes. i'm sure she was giving an example, which by deneb's description, would help deneb to understand her mother's point of view.
>
>& you are also fairly confident you can speak for someone else?
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:32:37
In reply to give me a break., posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 12:08:44
I don't think the "Joy luck club" reference was made out of malice...but stereotypes do hurt.
""A "stereotype" is a generalization about a person or group of persons. We develop stereotypes when we are unable or unwilling to obtain all of the information we would need to make fair judgments about people or situations. In the absence of the "total picture," stereotypes in many cases allow us to "fill in the blanks." Our society often innocently creates and perpetuates stereotypes, but these stereotypes often lead to unfair discrimination and persecution when the stereotype is unfavorable. "
Posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
In reply to let me add -, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:32:37
Mel, just kick me if you wish, because I know you can speak for yourself.
However, I'm going to speak, too. Hope that's okay with you, onewomancine.
I agree with you that stereotypes hurt. I don't believe, though, that Auntie Mel suggested this book to Deneb in order to learn all about Chinese women. Rather, I believe she suggested it as a tool for Deneb to read and reflect in hopes of improving her relationship with her mother.
It would be dangerous for anyone to assume that anyone belonging to a certain group is exactly the same as a portrayal of the group, whatever the medium. Similarly, there is more within group variation versus between groups variation. But you know that, I'm sure.
Still, it can be helpful to have a place to start and some "grist for the mill" to stimulate reflection when trying to understand something. Deneb is likely to take in information (whether from this book or anything else), digest it, compare and contrast it to other examples and to what she already knows, and then either assimilate/integrate it or let it go. She's a pretty smart cookie in a lot of ways. I doubt she took Mel's recommendation as, "This is a map of your mother."
Of course I could be wrong, because I can only speak for me, ya know.
gg
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 13:24:47
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
for clarifying that. Golly! Maybe I'm being "senstive" but your post sets off my "sarcasm detector".
"Mel, just kick me if you wish, because I know you can speak for yourself.
However, I'm going to speak, too. Hope that's okay with you, onewomancine."
I'm sure that's not your intended effect, though, right?
((((gg)))
People other than Babblers read this bb and I'm not sure if they would necessarily have that same view.
People on babble are extremely sensitive to issues of mental health, in particular. I have seen people hurt by the stigma of mental illness.
Just as it's not OK to stereotype mental illness, it's not OK to stigmatize any other group of people either.(((auntie mel)))
Posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 13:37:35
In reply to Re: give me a break. - karen kay, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
young (kinda, not so much anymore), white, female. what sort of stereotypes do you think i've encountered? how about at the auto parts store? or even better, any appliance store. going to get tools as presents, and i get treated like i have no idea what's going on.
is it fair? of course not. do i waste any time or energy trying to break this stereotype? not at all. it doesn't bother me becuase i know i'm not tool-stupid, or car-stupid, or appliance-stupid.
i personally find it frustrating when someone here is trying to help and they get tore a new one. how supportive is that?i'm not saying we all have to agree. not at all. but, can't we have the attitude that people here are just trying to help the way they know how? and how about giving people the benefit of the doubt, instead of laying into them?
geez, are we trying to reinforce the stereotype that the mentally ill are confrontational and argumentative? because that's the way it seems here lately (not excluding myself of course.)
go ahead, let me have it then. and i really hope your day is going well (no sarcasm there, swear it!)
Posted by Deneb on January 16, 2007, at 14:12:39
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
>My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
I don't get my Mom. She did tell me to deny all problems, but I just learned she isn't against me talking to my T or taking medications.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 14:13:01
In reply to i'm not even in the mood » one woman cine, posted by karen_kay on January 16, 2007, at 13:37:35
> young (kinda, not so much anymore), white, female. what sort of stereotypes do you think i've encountered? how about at the auto parts store? or even better, any appliance store. going to get tools as presents, and i get treated like i have no idea what's going on.
>
> is it fair? of course not. do i waste any time or energy trying to break this stereotype? not at all. it doesn't bother me becuase i know i'm not tool-stupid, or car-stupid, or appliance-stupid.
>
>
> i personally find it frustrating when someone here is trying to help and they get tore a new one. how supportive is that?
>
> i'm not saying we all have to agree. not at all. but, can't we have the attitude that people here are just trying to help the way they know how? and how about giving people the benefit of the doubt, instead of laying into them?
>
> geez, are we trying to reinforce the stereotype that the mentally ill are confrontational and argumentative? because that's the way it seems here lately (not excluding myself of course.)
>
> go ahead, let me have it then. and i really hope your day is going well (no sarcasm there, swear it!)
>
>
>
Hmm, I think you are jumping to a conclusion about me - I wasn't ripping any one a "new one" or "laying into them" - I was bringing up a point about stereotypes. That's all.People interpret "support" differently. What one person sees as sarcastic, another sees as supportive.
I am only asking for sensitivity and civility in regard to generalizations, which is mentioned in the FAQ, which is what this site says it espouses.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2007, at 14:51:53
In reply to Joy Luck Club + stereotypes... - Auntie Mel, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 11:16:13
> I must respectfully disagree with Joy Luck Club...
>
>
>
> By extension of Auntie Mel's and Kath's "Joy Luck Club" -
>
>
> For understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"
>
>
> watch (or read) One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest to understand the mentally ill.
>
> watch the Lone Ranger to understand American Indians...
>
> read (or watch) Huckleberry Finn or the Color purple to understand african americans...
>
> To understand the South, read Flannery O'connor or Tennesee William's "streetcar named desire"
>
> Watch the Sopranos to understand Italian americans.
>
> & on it goes.....
>
> http://www.colorado.edu/ftep/diversity/div06.html
>
>
one woman cine,
You wrote,[..."Joy Luck Club"...for understanding groups we don't understand, read book "XYZ"...].
Thank you for bringing out that there is the potential for a group to be sterotyped by one person's depiction, even if it is innocently portrayed. I believe that there is the potential for that to happen IMO via a television series, or a movie or a book or perhaps a club or cult where the content is controlled by leaving open to malign a particular group, where sterotyping of other groups would not be allowed.
I believe that the principles of social justice make no distinction as to the author's intent of any work that has the potential to sterotype a group of peoples. Wherever I see people of any nature, the subject for the potential to be sterotyped as a group of people, I try with all my might for that to be repudiated so that there is no doubt that the sterotyping is not endorsed.
Lou
Posted by tofuemmy on January 16, 2007, at 15:50:34
In reply to well thanks gg, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 13:24:47
"Golly! Maybe I'm being "senstive" but your post sets off my "sarcasm detector". "
OWC - I have known GG for many years, and yes she has the ability to be sarcastic...as do I. However, as someone who knows GG well, I don't hear sarcasm in this post. Tone is hard to read sometimes. I think she was just trying to help smooth things out. As am I.
em
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:12:45
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
I think reading fiction can be quite enriching, and can shed insight or a new twist on understanding one's own life experience. It can give us ideas for new language to use as we think of our experiences. For example, "Oh, this and this happened in my life and I felt terrible, it was horrible and embarressing- here something like it happened in the book and the author made it sound sort of bittersweetly funny. Maybe I can make peace with my experience and look at it lighter, too. I sure do have an interesting story..." Or, "That character in the book reminds me of my mom when she's too strict and unfair- oh- so the character behaves that way because of this and that? Maybe I should give mom a break." Sorry if this sounds sappy and oversimplified. I think the book suggestion was a good one.
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:14:30
In reply to Re: give me a break. - karen kay, posted by one woman cine on January 16, 2007, at 12:18:58
I've been victim of ethnic and occupational stereotyping, and I still don't see what the problem is with suggesting The Joy Luck Club.> Have you ever been the victim of stereotype?
>
> Somehow, when you say "give me a break" - it doesn't seem like you have...
>
> I'm not splitting hairs - I'm serious.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by laima on January 16, 2007, at 16:17:45
In reply to Lou's response to aspects of OWC's post » one woman cine, posted by Lou Pilder on January 16, 2007, at 14:51:53
Um, isn't Amy Tan a Chinese-American woman writing about other Chinese American women? Isn't that ok for her to do?
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 16, 2007, at 16:21:00
In reply to Re: let me add - » one woman cine, posted by gardenergirl on January 16, 2007, at 13:16:51
Sometimes reading something that resonates helps us understand ourselves.
Sometimes it also helps to read something about people like us, even though it makes us feel like we are "different" then they are. Helps us understand ourselves.
If Deneb wishes to understand her mom's behavior at a different level, it might be interesting to her to thing about cultural influences and generational influences on her mom's behavior. Kind of like an anthropology project.
Reading a book about a group of people who are different from me often has the effect of helping me understand that people from [group X] are in fact individuals, rather than category-members. That has certainly been my experience as a reader of psycho-babble posts.
-Ll
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 16, 2007, at 18:05:52
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by Deneb on January 16, 2007, at 14:12:39
> >My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
>
> I don't get my Mom. She did tell me to deny all problems, but I just learned she isn't against me talking to my T or taking medications.
>
> Deneb*Deneb,
It's okay not to "get" your mom. I don't think any of us "get" our moms all the time. Or even for important stuff. I am understanding my mom more and more these days. Helps that my T is kind of in the same demographic as my mom. It makes it more credible for me to understand how some things my mom does are highly unusual if it comes from someone with knowledge of what is "typical" in certain populations.I'm not surprised that your mom wants you to deny your weaknesses. Parents have a lot of reasons for wanting that. 1. It might make them feel that people will think less of them as a parent. 2. belief that private things should remain inside the family. 3. Looking out for your best interests as you encounter people in the world who don't understand mental illness. 4. She doesn't want to be reminded that her daughter struggles with problems that she cannot fix. etc.
I'm SO happy to hear that she is not against you taking medication or seeing your pdoc/T. Of course, if she *were* against it, you'd know by now. She'd make it difficult for you to schedule and keep appts, or she might make if difficult for you to obtain your medications.
It sounds like you had a really important discussion with her. Have you guys ever talked about the effect of your mental illness on family life with a counsellor? I understand that there might be language barriers, etc. I also think that it might help you to understand how your parents feel about you, and the extent of their love for you. It might also make day-to-day living a little smoother if they can understand the types of things that you struggle with. (I'm also thinking of your younger sibling). As a younger sibling of someone who had severe depression and psychosis... well, I guess I would have appreciated it if someone could have sat down and explained to me what was going on. Instead I got the idea that if I ever told anyone what happened at home that my older brother would be sent away to an "insane asylum" for the rest of his ? and I would be responsible for violating the family's privacy. (yeah, I got issues) anyways, just wanted to throw that suggestion out there. family counselling. hip hip hooray...
-Ll
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