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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:09:09
In reply to Re: Deneb -laima, posted by one woman cine on January 11, 2007, at 18:49:50
Yes! I was thinking "Apple"- but wasn't sure. Just goes to show, one can flunk out of school and do alright. And no one here's even flunking out.> Laima,
>
> It was Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple.
Posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:13:31
In reply to Re: Deneb » laima, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 18:53:37
Oh. Sorry for misunderstanding. But trust me, sounds just like me in college, just like my parents. I suppose it sounds sappy to say it really did work out alright, and my parents long ago forgot all about it, but I'm not sure what to say.
> I'm not upset because I skipped one class. I'm upset because my parents yelled at me for skipping and also I failed 2 classes last semester because my exam deferral note wasn't accepted. I'm probably on academic probation now and I feel like my life is over.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:18:41
In reply to I told my Mom about my mini OD, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 19:41:09
Very sorry to hear. My therapist used to tell me over and over that I don't own my mother's problems, and that she doesn't get two lives and me none. Your situation doesn't sound easy at all. Do you ever think you might move to a dorm where you might get some relief from too much closeness? Just a thought.
And no, I severly doubt you'd be locked up forever. The only way you'd end up in a hospital would be if you told them you intended to hurt yourself- and even then they would do all they could do to get you out and on your feet as soon as possible.
> She sounds angry. She said I don't think about her. She says she has great anxiety. She says that if I go to a doc I will be locked up in the hospital forever and that would be a fate worse than death. She told me to never think of myself as having problems.
>
> I don't think I should have told her.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:21:03
In reply to Re: I told my Mom about my mini OD, posted by one woman cine on January 11, 2007, at 19:52:04
With this assessment I respectfully have to disagree- sounds like classic manipulation and power struggle to me.
> "My Mom is threatening to take away all my money from me and my bank card."
>
> Not what you want to hear, however, if you act in a certain way - there are consequences, right? You speed in a car, you get a ticket. If you act in ways that dangerous, there are consequences too. I think your Mom would be using good judgement if she did take enforce this.
>
> I'm sorry your Mom is upset, you are worried that people are upset, but I'm wondering what do you think will happen when you tell them upsetting things? What reaction are you looking for?
>
> Some medication prn would help in cases like this, maybe you should talk to your pdoc.
Posted by leo33 on January 11, 2007, at 23:49:32
In reply to Re: Deneb -laima » one woman cine, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:09:09
I believe bill gates did not finish college either.
you just need confidence, vision, passion, drive, and a I don't care how I get there attitude, what ever it takes. God knows I use to have some of that.
Posted by Jo U.K on January 12, 2007, at 4:45:46
In reply to Re: Deneb -laima, posted by leo33 on January 11, 2007, at 23:49:32
All this WILL pass Deneb - there are times in EVERYONES, even the most sorted,sane,happy-seeming peoples' lives when they go through what feels to them like the WORST of times and that there are no answers. Take a breath, maybe write it all down, exactly how you feel. Then try and jot some possible outcomes - the world won't end if you don't so well academically - there are careers that dont require exam passes- what would you like to be? Maybe write a letter to your mother if it's easier than speaking to her, don't blame anyone, just say how you feel, tell her you love her and you want to work towards sorting your life out. There are no quick fixes, but I really hope you can move past this.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:41:22
In reply to Re: I told my Mom about my mini OD, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 20:17:29
"I was in chat and people there convinced me to try to call my pdoc. She couldn't be reached. There is just no way to reach my pdoc after hours. "
Is that really true, your pdoc can't be reached after hours? They have pagers for emergencies and must be reachable! It's a part of being an MD...
Plus, no one should have to "convince" you to see your pdoc; you should think that would be a good thing on your own - a way of becoming better - mental health is not achieved through coercion.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
In reply to Re: I told my Mom about my mini OD, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:21:03
"With this assessment I respectfully have to disagree- sounds like classic manipulation and power struggle to me. "
Ok, we disagree - but as far as I know Deneb isn't working and living under her parents roof - how should a parent cope with a child who wants to self harm?
Parents take away cars, they take away privileges; I think a bank card and money are privilege if you do not earn them yourself. What would you do if you were Denebs parents?
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:39:17
In reply to Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
Well, as a veteran of a very dramatic college-era relationship with my own parents, I think Deneb would benefit from some independence rather than having her parents closely monitor and critcize her every move. Time to be ALLOWED to grow up- some parents just never want to let go of micromanaging their children. At least that how it was in my case, and my therapist said it was quite common. In my experience, it exasperated my mood and behavior. I did much better when they backed off a bit and I was trusted to act as an adult. Much better with my own part time job and bank account (rather than asking for an allowance-which always had strings attached), much better in the dorm than at home. If the rationale for taking away a person's bank account is that person therefore won't by pills, I think that's futile. A person who wants pills will still get them one way or another. Meanwhile, the indignity of mother snatching bank account away creates worsened morale, more drama, and a greater gulf.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 8:47:28
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:39:17
Laima,
I hear you - trust me - I think the sitaution with Deneb and her parents is circular. But, again - I pose the question - if you were Deneb's parent & she was financially dependent on you, living at home - what would you do to prevent self-harm - you didn't answer the question?
"If the rationale for taking away a person's bank account is that person therefore won't by pills, I think that's futile."
That wasn't my rationale - but you can't self-harm and expect there to be no consequences...
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 9:37:51
In reply to Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
> What would you do if you were Denebs parents?
>Give her a hug, reassure her that whatever happened at school, I'd be behind her one hundred percent, and that everything would be ok. Then I'd say I'm sorry that she's feeling so bad, but that my number one priority is to see that she comes to no harm so that she'll be here to work things out, and that I'm going to have to either bring her to the ER or stick to her like glue until we can reach her pdoc the next day, where a harm reduction plan needs to be worked on. I'd tell her that I loved her, with or without a degree, enough to not want to see anyone, including herself, hurt her.
Heaven forfend that my son ever feels that way, but if he does, I would hope that I would respond in such a way that he would feel I could be a resource to him when he needed me.
Any consequences would be worked out with the mental health provider, where hopefully my son would give a limited waiver of confidentiality so that we could discuss self harm and how best to help.
But parents react as they react, and we can't change that reaction, just how we respond to it. I hope Deneb is able to look past her mother's fear and distress and subsequent reaction, and trust her pdoc. And ask her pdoc what to do if she's in crisis after hours, and try to remember to call her pdoc during hors if she's really upset. Over time we can discover who we can and can't talk to about self harm.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 9:51:28
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 9:37:51
"And ask her pdoc what to do if she's in crisis after hours, and try to remember to call her pdoc during hors if she's really upset. Over time we can discover who we can and can't talk to about self harm. "
I agree and stated so before, that calling her pdoc would be best - but I think if your child does OD repeatedly and it's not a first time thing - what then? Wait until the next day, what if the next day is too late.
The problem is this a pattern....
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 12, 2007, at 10:34:06
In reply to Re: Deneb » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 18:50:33
Deneb,
It is BEST not to OD at all! It is not something to play around with. People have had fatal results when they only wanted to "send a message."
MidnightBlue
> How do I change the equation?
>
> I'm guessing I shouldn't post about ODing and I definitely shouldn't post that I've already OD'd.
>
> Why? Because it's best for the group not to know these things. It only upsets people. I have to learn to hold things in and suffer in silence like other people here.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
In reply to Re: Deneb » Deneb, posted by MidnightBlue on January 12, 2007, at 10:34:06
I'm OK. I went to my two classes today. I think I convinced my Mom that I didn't want to harm myself. I convinced her that I was angry about the argument we had and that is why I took the pills.
I don't even really know why I took them.
I decided against phoning my pdoc because I'm OK now and I would just be bothering her. Plus, what is she supposed to do anyways? I'll just tell her everything on our next session.
My Mom didn't take away my money. She doesn't want to punish me, she only wanted to prevent me from buying pills. I don't know if she will let me go to San Diego for the Babble Party now. She doesn't trust me now. My Dad is worried Babble is a cult. My Mom is worried because she read that some people online make suicide pacts together. I admit I used to visit those pro-suicide newsgroups on usenet, but not anymore.
I can't write a letter to my Mom because she doesn't read English and I can't write Chinese.
I really hope my Mom is OK. I must never tell her these things again. My Mom told me that if anything happened to me she would kill herself. She told me about the time she got into an argument and she was ready to jump off a bridge.
Right now I'm still kind of stunned. I have to study.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 11:19:39
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
"I'm OK *triggers*" - is probably an unintentional oxymoron...
"I decided against phoning my pdoc"
I'm sorry that you have made that choice for yourself. Good luck Deneb.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:54
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
I'm sorry you chose not to call your pdoc. You may *feel* ok now, but what about tonight or over the weekend when triggers come your way? Seems better to me to call her when you know she's there and find out what she wants you to do after hours and tell her what's going on. Because if tonight or tomorrow you aren't OK, you're not going to know what to do.
It's her job to know. Let her do your job.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
Deneb, your mom is old school Chinese. What she is saying is pretty typical of mainland people from her generation.
Please, please read "The Joy Luck Club" - it will help you understand. She sounds like the mom in the book, and many people I met in China. The more you understand her the better you will get along.
If you want to write her a letter, send it to me and I will have a friend translate it for you.
And you can have your dad contact me and I will help convince him that we aren't a cult and that I will help take care of you in San Diego. He can't be too afraid of me, can he?
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 12:29:35
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
"Please, please read "The Joy Luck Club" - it will help you understand. She sounds like the mom in the book, and many people I met in China. The more you understand her the better you will get along."
"Deneb, your mom is old school Chinese. "
This seems to be a conclusion and a sterotype - are you Chinese?
I'm offended - not only "old school chinese" have the reaction Deneb's mom did. What does that mean?
Posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
I know there is this gigantic cultural and generational rift between me and my parents. I don't understand my parents sometimes. I hate the communication barrier between us. My parents didn't speak to me very much while growing up so my Cantonese vocabulary is limited. Thanks for the book recommendation. I think I've seen bits of the movie before, but I've never read the book.
Thanks for offering to help me with writing a letter, but I don't think it's needed right now. I also wouldn't know what to write.
Thanks for offering to talk to my Dad to convince him we're not a cult, but I don't think that's necessary either. I'm afraid him finding out that Babble is a support forum for people with mental health issues is not going to go well with my Dad. My dad thinks the Internet is full of crazy people and will never understand. My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
My Mom agreed that if I did well this semester I could go to the Babble Party. I would hope that she holds her end of the deal.
Thanks for saying you'll look after me in San Diego. That's sweet. I'll be OK though. I was OK in Toronto. Are you really thinking about going? If so, that's one more reason for me to do well this semester. :-)
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 14:58:06
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 9:51:28
Well, I haven't been following Deneb's history, so there's admittedly much I don't know. I just don't want things to get worse, nor do I want to get a heated discussion going. This episode reminds me so much of what I went through during my college years. So how does one break a pattern?
I almost wonder if next time a class is skipped, if it wouldn't make sense to weigh pros and cons of telling mom.
Pro of telling mom: Confide in mom, full disclosure. Attention ?
Mom knows everything that's going on.Cons of telling mom: Mom knows everything that is going on. Mom becomes upset, argument, Deneb becomes upset, situation escalates.
Pro of not telling mom: No triggerish arguement. Upset is limited to missing the class and whatever consequences might result. Must pick up on own without any prodding. Intrinsic responsability fostered. Confidence in being able to handle one's own affairs has opportunity to strengthen.
Cons of not telling mom: Keep a secret, must take full responsability alone without any outside prodding.
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:00:49
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
Your mom obviously cares very much for you and about what happens to you, Deneb. No matter how she expresses it.
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:06:48
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
There is a culture of immigrants, roughly that "American Dream" style struggle. A lot of children of immigrants have to deal with growing up in a different reality and mindset than their parents. All I ever heard in college was how my parents sacrificed, struggled, and slaved away so that their children, ie *me*, could fullfill their dream of a better life for generations to come. How laughably easy my life was compared to theirs, how could I plausably be depressed or unhappy, how ungrateful I was, because unlike them I had no clue what hard work, sacrificing or suffering even was, that's quite a burden.
Posted by Farkus on January 12, 2007, at 16:15:42
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:06:48
Parenting a grown child has many challenges and can be very difficult as can BEING parented as a grown person.
My experience with the relationship - my almost 25 year old daughter and myself was - independence for us BOTH that led to a different interdependent relationship helped us go to a healthy place and was how things needed to progress. I think she would agree. I'm going to ask her....
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 19:13:56
In reply to General comment, posted by Farkus on January 12, 2007, at 16:15:42
I missed this thread. I'm really sorry I couldn't be there for you Deneb. I understand that you felt really upset and stressed and anxious. I'm sorry that you feel that you have no caring person that you can talk to about these feelings. Sometimes when we feel misunderstood the anxiety and such just start to amplify.
I'm glad that you are posting that you feel "okay". I agree with other posters that you should talk with your pdocT about this. You and her have been through a LOT together. She probably cares for you a great deal. I wonder whether having her after-hours contact information would help you avoid feeling so desperate. Sometimes even knowing that you have that option is enough to help you feel tethered to the world. I also care for my T enough that I don't want to disappoint her by doing something harmful to myself without at least giving her a heads-up.
Take good care of yourself, okay? I don't want you to be hurt.
your friend,
-Ll
Posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 13:01:58
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 12:29:35
Uh, I said this because Deneb and I have met in person and talked about this?
Honestly, I wasn't meaning anything mean.
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