Psycho-Babble Social Thread 426016

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN) » lostforwards

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 1:38:35

In reply to Re: more ranting :-), posted by lostforwards on December 7, 2004, at 17:39:19

> Do you think it's wrong to masturbate to porn?

I'm not sure but I think that I don't like it. I think that the very act of doing it is treating the woman in the picture as an object. But I won't go on about this one. If my SO disagreed then I suppose I'd just say 'fine - but I don't want to know about it so be discrete'. But I guess I wouldn't like it much.

>I think the treatment of people like objects or abuse of people goes beyond porn.

I agree, but I think that porn is one of the worst offenders.

> Regarding prostitution: all of those horrible things probably wouldn't happen if it were legal and controlled. ( the money dillema aside - working for cash may make people who do sexwork feel used. )

Prostitution is legal here in NZ. The average working girls working conditions have improved immensely to be sure. If their Joe decided to start brutally beating them, for example, then the police can be called to the brothel to put a stop to it. They never used to be able to do that.

> It's almost like drug dealing ( even the not so bad drugs ). It's trouble not because of the drugs, but because of how underground everything is. Since it's illegal all sorts of bad things happen that wouldn't happen if it were controlled and legal.

Like I said it is legal in NZ
If they weren't being paid for it then it wouldn't be prostitution, it would be consensual sex between two adults
But that doesn't change the issue of 'I can do whatever I want with you (within certain guidelines) for x amount of time for x amount of dollars'. And no way, oh, no way would they be giving it to you for free.
And what are the psychological consequences of doing that for the average working girl?

But some people don't care about the other.
They care about themselves.

Sick sick I feel sick

Sorry - I shall leave this topic alone now. It isn't you or any other person in particular but this thread is starting to bring stuff up for me.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 6:09:22

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN) » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 1:38:35

I guess there are lot of people doing something wrong then.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 6:21:26

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN) » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 1:38:35

>Like I said it is legal in NZ
If they weren't being paid for it then it wouldn't be prostitution, it would be consensual sex between two adults
But that doesn't change the issue of 'I can do whatever I want with you (within certain guidelines) for x amount of time for x amount of dollars'. And no way, oh, no way would they be giving it to you for free.
And what are the psychological consequences of doing that for the average working girl?

This of course is tied to the money issue and it is does lead to people being treated as objects.

I don't know what you went through. I assumed it wasn't that bad since your post seemed relatively at ease, despite the word abuse appearing. Whoever treated you callously like dirt without feelings, as if you were a manipulable object ( in my opinion branding people is an example ) was defintely doing something wrong.

If you don't like porn, it's find by me. I just find it a little irksome when someone says it's one of the worst offenders when it comes to objectifying women, since I looked at it a lot when I was younger and I still look at it. ( and I know other people do ) That and I've never had the thick skin of a bully.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by justyourlaugh on December 8, 2004, at 10:03:52

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 6:21:26

if i made add..
my husband and i watch porn together..
and i love woman..

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 13:27:46

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by justyourlaugh on December 8, 2004, at 10:03:52

I guess I just worry about who that person is.
What they are like as a person.
What led them to pose for the camera.
Whether that will become one of the traumatic memories that they need to work through one day.

And to disregard those kind of questions while looking is to not regard the human being in the picture as a person. It is regarding them as an object.

But that is just my opinion.
I guess I am just really sensitised to this.
I apologise if I have been attacking or accusing.
I really, genuinely do.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 13:44:01

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 13:27:46

I prefer to think those questions have positive answers. I wouldn't dismiss any of the negative possibilities to think that it's ALWAYS negative isn't good for me. I would rather not think about the worst case scenario everytime I look at porn.

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 13:55:51

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 13:44:01

Actually... let me tell you why I would rather not think about the worst case scenario, not just with porn but with sex in general. I don't like to think of suffering or pain when I think of sex or look at porn.

But the first time I was with a girl doing anything sexual, when she intiated something, and after it was all over I actually asked her "why did you do that?". Deep down I thought she had degraded herself. I thought there was something ugly about what she'd done, as fun as it was and I was stupid ( disinhibited? ) enough to ask that question. That's the type of aura I don't like lingering in the background when I look at porn. If it's there, it effects my attitude about sex unless I can comfortably repress it. At the time I was with her, a few years ago, I had no problem with porn, but I did have a problem with sex. I think my problem with sex had something to do with a problem I have with porn, because your posts seem to touching on something.

Feeling sick or anxious ( in a bad way ) at the sight of a nude women can't be healthy, can it?

 

Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN)

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 14:05:38

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 13:27:46

I think I'd rather stop writing about this too. The truth is after reading your posts when I looked at some pictures I started to feel sick and very angry. That's what happened. I'm serious. I know you didn't mean to upset anyone. I think I just did it to myself.

 

(((((lostfowards)))))

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:58

In reply to Re: more ranting :-) (ABOUT PORN), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 14:05:38

I am sorry.
I figure that most people who look
do not go to prostitutes (and even if they do) they do not beat women or treat them brutally or cruelly etc etc etc.

Most people who look do not think about them as people - because if you do then it is not fun anymore, right?

To think that maybe the human being in the picture is a real person who might not like what they are doing makes it not fun to look at for the average person any more, right?

That is just what occurs to me when I look.
That is why it is no fun for me.
But now I've brougt that point of view to your attemtion, maybe it won't be fun for you anymore either.

I am sorry that I have ruined this for you.

Really, I am not one to get on a moralistic high horse.

But I do wonder about dissociating sex from love. Because that is (to me) what is wrong about porn. Because you have to divorce sex from love because you cannot love someone who isn't a person. I think that doing that is wrong. Thats what I don't like. Because of seeing the person as an object. And you have to do that to get off on it.

I am sorry. I shall shut up about this now.

Maybe I don't use porn
Because I have a tendancy to act out my fantasies
Including the humiliating and degrading ones
I am not 'holier-than-thou' - I promise.

 

Re: (((((lostfowards)))))

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 16:30:05

In reply to (((((lostfowards))))), posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:58

I feel like crap now. I don't know what it is. I think I'll just take it out on my phone.

 

Re: (((((lostfowards)))))

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:03:48

In reply to (((((lostfowards))))), posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:58

btw, it's not you, it's the issue.

 

I am sorry - I tend to bring this out in people...

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:15:55

In reply to Re: (((((lostfowards))))), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:03:48

I have not learned to shut my mouth.

I am just hyper-sensitive to this.
And far too idealistic.

I really am very sorry.
I'd take it all back if I could.

((((Lostfowards))))
I'm sorry

 

Re: (((((lostfowards)))))

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:15:56

In reply to (((((lostfowards))))), posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:58

actually. I think I know what it is. Your POV makes me feel like a criminal.

 

Re: (((((lostfowards)))))

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:36:17

In reply to Re: (((((lostfowards))))), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:15:56

I didn't mean that as any offence to you. that's just how I felt. I think that's what it was anyway.

 

Hmm.

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:37:25

In reply to Re: (((((lostfowards))))), posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:15:56

Yeah. I guess that is why I apologised if anything I said was hurtful and / or accusatory.

I guess my point of view (that I expressed) was that getting off on porn is treating people as objects. And we mostly agree that treating people as objects is wrong. So my saying that doing that is treating people as objects kinda accuses people who do get off on it of treating people as objects.

(that does sound repeditive, I guess I've done too much logic).

I am sorry, it is just my point of view. I think I should leave this thread alone now.

I emplore people who use porn in a positive way to enhance their relationships to pipe up now!

I am sorry that you feel that there is something awkward about real life sex. It can be the most beautiful thing in the world between two (or more - lets be liberal here) people who want to do it with each other.

 

Re: that's okay - I'd just like to forget about it

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:40:28

In reply to I am sorry - I tend to bring this out in people..., posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:15:55

Never shut your mouth. People who shut their mouths are the cause of all the worlds problems. I think it's as much a sin to keep your mouth shut, to not say what you want, and torture those around you while they wonder, as it is to talk too much. I'm glad you at least took the time to clarify things. You could've just kept your mouth shut and said nothing, that would've been worse and more "holier-than-thou" than a lot of things.

Thanks for taking the time to reply,
lostforwards.

 

I do need to learn about tact, however... » lostforwards

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:45:33

In reply to Re: that's okay - I'd just like to forget about it, posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 17:40:28

And to think more about the effects of my words on others.

And, like I said, you were right and justified in saying that my post made you feel like a criminal - it was unfairly accusatory.

PBC alexandra_k.

I would understand if I got a block for this.

 

Re: I do need to learn about tact, however...

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 18:00:16

In reply to I do need to learn about tact, however... » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:45:33

Sexuality is a touchy issue anyway, since it's so personal. We're not really talking about public policy, we're talking about our private lives. I think you've been as close to civil as anyone can be when talking about this.

I didn't mean to offend you, but how I felt is how I felt. Maybe criminal was a strong word but it certainly seemed fitting to me. I don't think I objectify people in the day in reality, despite looking at porn. I do think there is such a thing as too much of it.

 

Re: I do need to learn about tact, however...

Posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 18:40:40

In reply to I do need to learn about tact, however... » lostforwards, posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:45:33

I used vulgar language in one of my posts. I think I'll get a PBC for that.

 

Re: I do need to learn about tact, however... » lostforwards

Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 19:32:48

In reply to Re: I do need to learn about tact, however..., posted by lostforwards on December 8, 2004, at 18:00:16

> Sexuality is a touchy issue anyway, since it's so personal.

Yes indeed. I do wonder whether Dr. Bob's intention in telling us to stick to relationships was to stop this thread before it escalated to the point that it has...

> I didn't mean to offend you

You did not offend me at all!

>how I felt is how I felt.

Indeed, and I think that your response to my posts was understandable, and that is why I regret my posts in hindsight.

>I don't think I objectify people in the day in reality, despite looking at porn.

Yeah. I think that the latter would be much worse. And worse still would be insisting on viewing people as objects to the point where it prevents viewing them as a person (oh, the plight of a beautiful person! - something I don't have to worry about, which I am thankful for).

I don't think it follows that people who view porn objectify the human beings they encounter face to face in their daily lives. I don't think it follows that people who enjoy fantasising about certain things would actually enjoy doing certain things. I don't think viewing porn makes you or anybody a 'bad' person.

It is just that it is not to my personal taste.

Thats all I have to say.
And that is all I should have said!


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