Psycho-Babble Social Thread 394020

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Re: I'm going to rat out my parents. Any thoughts? Dinah

Posted by TexasChic on September 24, 2004, at 19:31:08

In reply to I'm going to rat out my parents. Any thoughts?, posted by Dinah on September 23, 2004, at 7:18:32

I was my Grandmother's caregiver for 7 years. I just recently moved out and now my Mom takes care of her. I found the Social Worker to be the absolute best person to go to. They know all the ins and outs of the system and can get you the help you need.

As for feeling guilty, there were things I felt guilty about because my Grandmother didn't want to do them (like go to the hospital when she was extremely ill). But I realized, if she was dementia and illness free, she would want these things done. For some reason it made me feel better to think of her spirit after she moves on, with no more illness to cloud her mind, and how she would see what I did was for her benefit. And she be grateful.

I think of my deceased Dad that way too, not like he was, but how he would be in spirit, out of the body that made him mentally ill.

I know if I got so extremely ill that I could no longer make rational decisions, I would hope someone would do what was best for me, rather than leave me to do harm to myself.

 

Re: Another thought

Posted by TexasChic on September 24, 2004, at 20:19:53

In reply to Re: I'm going to rat out my parents. Any thoughts? Dinah, posted by TexasChic on September 24, 2004, at 19:31:08

I also have a problem with hoarding. It hasn't progressed to severe, but I realized the extent of it when I moved out and I had to deal with bags and bags of bills dating back several years. This had been going on for a while and I knew it was a problem, but when I had to let my Mom sort through it and throw stuff away, I KNEW it was bad. I cried and screamed and threw a fit, but in the end, I think its the only way it would have gotten done. If you're interested, there is a story of famous brothers who were hoarders named Homer and Langley Collyer. If you google them, its pretty interesting, but kind of gruesome. They actually died because of it. I don't know if that's something good or bad for you to read in your current situation, but when I read it, it made me realize what a serious problem it was, while at the same time making me feel better because I wasn't that bad! It also shows how dangerous it can be in the extreme. But don't read it if you think it will upset you.

 

I'm so ashamed

Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 22:52:46

In reply to Re: Another thought, posted by TexasChic on September 24, 2004, at 20:19:53

Because I really can't do any of these really great ideas. If the doctor doesn't do anything with the information, things aren't likely to change.

My father and I were talking about it, and we just can't see any way to make it work without involving government officials. Even if we mustered the courage to throw out *just* the newspapers and magazines (and we'd never manage to get up the nerve to throw anything else away) and cancel the paper, my mother would just order the local paper herself, and maybe add the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal and buy out Publishers Clearing House entire line. I *know* that OCD is a disease, but with her it seems more like a battle she's willing to fight to win at all costs. Like everything else in her life. She maintained the same stubbornness at work and got fired. Her desire to win at all costs has affected her relationships. And she never realizes that winning the battles causes her to lose the war.

Nor can I hire a health worker for my dad against his will. He'd manage to drive off anyone I found, even if I got the courage to do anything about it, which I won't because I'm a spineless worm.

I'm so ashamed to admit that there is no way on earth that I'm going to do anything about anything other than reluctantly and half heartedly obey some of their commands, while hiding from the others.

 

Re: I'm so ashamed Dinah

Posted by Susan47 on September 25, 2004, at 23:15:55

In reply to I'm so ashamed, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 22:52:46

You're not a "spineless worm", love. You're doing everything you can to help your parents, who are difficult people and have had a lot of power over you in the past. Your road isn't easy, and I can see where mine will lead me in exactly the same direction when my own very stubborn, independent, authoritative and intimidating parents need help and won't admit it. I'm probably reading too much into it all, but I'm watching your thread with great interest, in anticipation of the time when I'll be in your shoes. Take heart. You're doing all a person can do.

 

Re: I'm so ashamed Dinah

Posted by gardenergirl on September 25, 2004, at 23:24:13

In reply to I'm so ashamed, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 22:52:46

Dinah,
You are in a terrible tough situation. I'm so sorry you are caught up in this.

(((((dinah)))))

gg

 

Oh my. Susan47

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:43:09

In reply to Re: I'm so ashamed Dinah, posted by Susan47 on September 25, 2004, at 23:15:55

I'm dreadfully sorry. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. :(

I keep trying to remind myself over and over that it's worse for them. I'm not the one stuck in the wheelchair and dependent on others for my basic needs. And I'm not the one faced with at the least losing a part of a foot. Not to mention everything else.

But it doesn't seem to be working. :(

Risperdal helps some though.

 

Thanks gardenergirl

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:48:30

In reply to Re: I'm so ashamed Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on September 25, 2004, at 23:24:13

My mom's surgery is Monday. At least after that, I'll know exactly what I'm facing. Her surgeon seems to be way more optimistic than her internist.

On the positive side, my brother seems to be in fine spirits. It's good to see him looking fit and happy enough.

Oh, and another positive, Harry seems to feel much better now that I've added a steroid to his drug cocktail and reinstated the Metamucil. His tail is up and wagging again.

 

Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:59:49

In reply to Thanks gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:48:30

I get embarassed at the unrelenting blackness of my own thoughts when I start to write them down and am embarassed into thinking more positively.

That worked with my pdoc once. I called him with suicidal impulses when my therapist was unavailable, and the act of sharing the thoughts with him was so unbelievably embarassing that the thoughts just went away.

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah

Posted by crazymaisie on September 26, 2004, at 5:02:24

In reply to Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:59:49

hi Dinah

i'm sorry you're going through all this, it sounds more stressful than i could bear.
i know this is really tough for you, but it sounds as though you're carrying so much guilt on your shoulders. i think the only thing i really wanted to say is that your parents have to make these decisions for themselves and while you can help and advise them and maybe see things a bit more clearly from the outskirts (isn't it always so much clearer from the outside) their choices are their own. and i think you should absolve yourself from as much guilt and resposibility as you can. they are adults, after all, and as long as they are capable of making decisions by themselves there's only so much you can do.

i hope this makes sense and i hope you can be as kind to yourself in all this as can be. it's difficult to watch people you care about do something that seems so obviously to be the wrong thing, but sometimes you have to just do that, watch them do it if they insist upon it against all advice.

i hope this doesn't sound too cold. i'm speaking as someone who has removed my parents from my life because they are too toxic, and that's not a road i would recommend to anybody, but i do believe that sometimes you have to just let go. you're already a much better daughter than i am by being there and caring for and about them.

be good to yourself

maisie

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah

Posted by TexasChic on September 26, 2004, at 9:33:21

In reply to Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:59:49

Don't be so hard on yourself Dinah. Just the fact that you are so distressed shows the extent of your concern. You will do what you think best at the time, and to expect anything else is expecting more than humanly possible.
I would still suggest talking with a Social Worker. They deal with things like this every day believe it or not. They are used to dealing with every type of person and situation there is (or at least know someone who has that can advise them). Stop putting it all on your shoulders and instead go to someone who is trained to handle this. There's no reason to keep going it alone when there are resources available to help you. If nothing else, you will at least know you've done everything possible to help them.

 

I'm so ashamed -or- obligated??? (((Dinah)))

Posted by 64Bowtie on September 26, 2004, at 9:42:28

In reply to I'm so ashamed, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 22:52:46

When I found how profoundly obligations and expectations messed with my life....

Wait a minute! My life? That's it! This is my life, and I only have one!!!

....I started seeing others forcing me this way and that with a twist of a phrase. They didn't have to hook a joystick wired to my a*s to get me to do stuff. I did it simply because I felt obligated, and/or, I felt like I was waiting for them to give me what they promised.

(((Dinah))), what is it that your parents have each promised to you and you are simply waiting for them to deliver? What are the still unfinished goodies you so crave? Why are the stakes so high that you can't escape with your life intact?

I had to ask myself these questions several times, as if I were a monkey, until I got the jist of what the question meant. Weren't the embodiment of the answers to my questions actually my demons? Wasn't I being blackmailed into pseudo-survival to make someone elses world work for them at the cost of my life to me? Yep!

Not no more no how!

I don't get blackmailed so easily anymore. I know I sound like a space-alien sometimes. Sadly I didn't come to Babble fully fledged. Still, that said, do you get blackmailed by your expectations of the promises of each of your parents, vieled promises or not, hooked by a sublime obligation you can't seem to shake. That's just blackmail all over again, only very personal, and sometimes very subtle. I now have most of my life back. The rest is happening....

If so, we are more alike than you may be willing to admit. We all herein are alike in this way. The whole world might be working this way and Hollywood movies have it all wrong! Obligations and Expectations just don't work for adults. The stakes get raised and our internal demons mess with our feelings and blackmail sets in like gangrene.

(((Dinah))), please see yourself from my vista point for a just a minute. Please. I see you in suffering pain and want so much to take it from you. I won't lie or be inappropriate to you. I will not promise anything to you and will not obligate you with (one way) demands. I can love you without obligation (approval feels just like love, when you meet your obligations... approval is conditional but feels good). I am not so space-alien as this first sounds or I wouldn't be here today.

Rod

 

Re: Oh my.

Posted by Susan47 on September 26, 2004, at 9:43:43

In reply to Oh my. Susan47, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:43:09

If my father goes in good health, as I suspect he will, he's the type who would do himself in before he had to depend on anybody, then most of what I anticipate won't happen.
There was a time last year when he thought he might be going completely blind (he's been blind in one eye already since he was about 13) and he was jokingly saying he wouldn't allow that.
I don't know how it would feel to have a parent suicide because they didn't want to be taken care of. There must be huge issues of self-denial in an act like that.
I'm glad your parents are allowing your help, to some degree. And I hope it gets better, but if it gets worse first, keep posting.
Here's hugs to beef your spirits up a bit. ((((Dinah)))))

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah

Posted by 64Bowtie on September 26, 2004, at 11:55:03

In reply to Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:59:49

Thoughts, driven by feelings, can come, and they can go. Wouldn't it be so nice to have some say in the process?

Rod

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit crazymaisie

Posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 18:27:33

In reply to Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah, posted by crazymaisie on September 26, 2004, at 5:02:24

No it doesn't sound cold. It sounds like what I need to hear. As long as they aren't technically certifiable, they are responsible adults in charge of their own destinies.

Maybe I need to spend some time thinking about what sort of boundaries I can morally keep. And talking to the social worker.

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah

Posted by Gabbix2 on September 26, 2004, at 18:40:50

In reply to Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 0:59:49

> I get embarassed at the unrelenting blackness of my own thoughts when I start to write them down and am embarassed into thinking more positively.
>
Oh, I can so relate to that! Unfortunately for me it has to be said or written to someone else to work, and then I just feel silly. I tried
sending myself an e-mail a few times -- it didn't work :(

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah

Posted by Skittles on September 26, 2004, at 18:48:19

In reply to Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit crazymaisie, posted by Dinah on September 26, 2004, at 18:27:33

Dinah, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your sharing this experience with us. At 30, I've been wondering when I'd stop feeling that my parents had such a hold over me (it seems like they share some of your parents' negative traits). You've helped me see that it'll never happen unless I do something about it. Maybe if I can figure out those boundaries now, life will be easier for me later. As an only child, I think I need to get a plan in place right away so I won't be so overwhelmed as they get older.

Know that you are in my thoughts. I am sending you warm wishes and hoping that every day you discover little reserves of strength and courage you didn't know you had. You are a remarkable woman.

 

Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Skittles

Posted by 64Bowtie on September 27, 2004, at 13:20:17

In reply to Re: Hmmm.. Unexpected Babble benefit Dinah, posted by Skittles on September 26, 2004, at 18:48:19

> Dinah, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your sharing this experience with us. [[[At 30, I've been wondering when I'd stop feeling that my parents had such a hold over me]]] (it seems like they share some of your parents' negative traits). You've helped me see that it'll never happen unless I do something about it. [[[Maybe if I can figure out those boundaries now, life will be easier for me later.]]] As an only child, I think I need to get a plan in place right away so I won't be so overwhelmed as they get older.
>

<<< Thank yourself first, also thank you for connecting the dots...

> Know that you are in my thoughts. I am sending you warm wishes and hoping that every day you discover little reserves of strength and courage you didn't know you had. You are a remarkable woman.

<<< Three cheers for (((Dinah)))
hip-hip-hooray
hip-hip-hooray
hip-hip-hooray

Rod

 

They just told my mom.

Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 16:38:45

In reply to I'm so ashamed, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2004, at 22:52:46

I'm surprised at how much compassion I feel for her, even though she did say she told them she wanted them to save the leg until my father dies in a short time. The *doctor* doesn't think my father is necessarily going to die in a short time, but she keeps saying it over and over including in front of him. But still, I know how independent she is and she sounded like a little kid when she talked about losing her leg. It made me want to take her in my arms and hold her.

 

Good G*d! It worked!

Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:09:04

In reply to They just told my mom., posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 16:38:45

My mother just called in absolute hysterics about being asked to sign a consent form to take off her leg below the knee.

I managed to calm her down considerably by reminding her how much her doctor has fought in the past to save her toes. If he fights so hard to save her toes, wouldn't he fight that much harder to save her leg? And only take it as a very last resort?

And she listened! She calmed down considerably and is considering signing it. She wants to write in "only as a last resort" but I told her that even if the hospital doesn't allow that that the main thing was that she trust her doctor.

Wow.

I'm stunned.

 

big hug - I am so VERY happy for you Dinah

Posted by just plain jane on September 27, 2004, at 17:57:01

In reply to Good G*d! It worked!, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:09:04

a small victory over the manacles.

 

Good G*d! It worked!

Posted by 64bowtie on September 27, 2004, at 18:14:28

In reply to Good G*d! It worked!, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:09:04

(((((((({{{{{(((((Dinah))))))}}}}}}))))))

Rod

 

Thanks, Jane and Rod

Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 18:17:27

In reply to Good G*d! It worked!, posted by 64bowtie on September 27, 2004, at 18:14:28

She actually signed it and is in surgery right now. I've got my fingers and toes crossed. My poor mom. She was snuffling like a toddler.

 

Re: Good G*d! It worked! Dinah

Posted by Susan47 on September 27, 2004, at 18:24:00

In reply to Good G*d! It worked!, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 17:09:04

I haven't read through the entire thread yet, I have two more posts from you to read but my heart really really goes out to your mom.

 

Dinah

Posted by Susan47 on September 27, 2004, at 18:26:36

In reply to Thanks, Jane and Rod, posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 18:17:27

Maybe your mom feels like a toddler right now. I mean, really really emotionally feels like a little kid who's really scared. (((((Dinah and your mom)))))

 

Re: Dinah Susan47

Posted by Dinah on September 27, 2004, at 18:37:22

In reply to Dinah, posted by Susan47 on September 27, 2004, at 18:26:36

Probably so. That's probably why I feel like holding her close and smoothing her hair and telling her everything will be ok, no matter what happens with her leg. In fact, I think I did tell her that and put on my best momly voice.


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