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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on August 26, 2003, at 18:16:45
Did you have therapy today? How was it (if you want to say). I did; I remembered we had it on the same day last week. Mine left me wanting, I feel like something is missing. Like he doesn't really get who I am. But I'm going to hang in there for a couple of more sessions.
I hope you had a good time skating with your daughters. Please say hi to bear for me.
Posted by fallsfall on August 26, 2003, at 22:27:12
In reply to fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 26, 2003, at 18:16:45
Hello Kara,
Yes, I had therapy today. We talked about my oldest two leaving today for the Army and college. And the big fight I had with my youngest. I wanted to make sure that he went easy on me today. We talked about disagreements. He was telling me how the world worked, and I kept telling him that he is wrong. I guess we disagreed. He won't let me off so easy the next time.
Sometimes I think we have to explain things from a couple of different perspectives before our therapists can understand. It is frustrating, though, because you sort of count on them understanding and when they don't you are disappointed. I've found that it is worth plugging away.
We actually didn't go skating. My oldest and I walked the dogs instead. My son's skates didn't fit, and my youngest was still mad from the night before so she didn't want to go. It was a nice idea. I liked just thinking about it.
Bear says hi, back!! He says "I have a secret, do you want to know??"
(((((Kara)))))
P.S. Don't call him!
Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:41:55
In reply to Re: fallsfall? » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 26, 2003, at 22:27:12
Yes! I want to know the secret! Tell me...pretty please...?
I left my therapist's office wanting to call the ex *more* than I did when I walked in. I don't think he really understands feelings of desperation. He just says I need to go forth and get a life, and that I will attract a different kind of man. Well, duh. I said, 'You're telling me just to disregard all of my dysfunction and go ahead and take action (get a job eg)'. He said yes. I said I didn't know if I was up to that, and if I was I wouldn't be there.
So I don't really get what I'm doing there. I feel like he's telling me really basic things: Go out and get a job. Now. Here's one more step toward doing it.
But is that therapy? I don't know, it doesn't really feel like it to me. Also, I don't feel any better about taking those steps, although he seems to feel it will be my salvation.
How long have you been with your new therapist? It seems like I should feel more sure of mine by now--today was my 4th time.
How old is your youngest? Have things smoothed out a bit?
Thank you for answering, fallsfall and... pssst...bear....what is your secret?
Posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 8:53:27
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:41:55
> It seems like I should feel more sure of mine by now--today was my 4th time.
Kara,
Forgive me for jumping in, but I had to say
Give yourself a chance!
It's only your 4th time! And have you told him about this? Try to be as forthcoming as you can, and, then, if he's not helpful or you still don't feel sure, you might consider other options.
But give yourself time.
P
Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 10:45:10
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:41:55
Well, Kara, I had to go back to the other thread to see what Bear had actually said. I thought he said that he would tell your NEW bear the secret, but you are right. He said that he would tell you.
Bear's secret is that he loves Funny Bones. He loves them more than anything (except me) in the world. I sort of have decided, though, that the melted chocolate and peanut butter really make a mess, and it really isn't easy to give him a bath. So I have restricted him to empty Funny Bones boxes. He always has one up in my room with him (he may have 2 right now?). He has spent many, many a day with his nose buried into that box. Talk about heaven! I have had to become very disciplined - I now only buy Funny Bones when they are on sale. Also, they say on the box that they are good frozen. Don't believe it. They are awful frozen.
Bear thinks that you should get a bear so that s/he can try Funny Bones and we can know if it is a "bear" thing or a "Bear" thing.
******************************
I certainly understand your frustration with "Just go get a job". Is your therapist CBT? I will say that I think that there are SOME times when a kick in the pants is helpful - but that there are other times when it ISN'T.
Have you been able to identify what makes it the hardest to get a job? Would it be too tiring to work 40 hours? Can you not concentrate? Are you afraid to be in a new environment? Are you afraid of the rejection that a job search would entail? Do you not know what you would want to do? ??? I guess the point is to figure out what makes it hard and then see if there is something that you can to to minimize that issue. Or is there some way you can ease into it (part time work, or an easier job for now)? [Of course, I'm not doing any of this - just because I know what to do doesn't mean I'm doing it...]
When I went back to work after my first crash I started by volunteering. I volunteered at the library and the Middle School Computer Lab. Volunteering is wonderful. It gets you out into the world, but there really are no expectations. When you show up they are so thrilled. If you actually do something they are ecstatic. If you call in sick, they hope you'll feel better. Talk about feeling loved! Over time, I increased my volunteer hours. Then the Library hired me as their Children's Librarian (10 hours a week). By the time I was ready to move back into my field, they wanted me to be the Interim Library Director. But I went back to Software Engineering instead. This really let me ease into "working", in a very supportive environment.
Working or volunteering can give you the stimulation and self confidence that you need to get better. I think that your therapist (and mine) are right to say that if we were working we would be doing better. I'm thinking, actually, that as soon as school starts I probably will get back to volunteering.
Your therapy sounds sort of like CBT to me. Sounds like fairly typical CBT (though I am not an expert!). Psychodynamic is very different. My CBT therapist wanted to know all the details of my week. My Psychodynamic therapist doesn't want to know anything about my week.
I've been with my new therapist 2 months - but I see him twice a week. It does take a little while to come to an understanding between you and your therapist. Don't be afraid to say "When you tell me to just go get a job I feel like you aren't understanding my issues".
My youngest is 15. She is so very 15. She has her own ideas of what she wants to happen and it doesn't matter what anybody else's priorities are. We're talking again. It is an ongoing battle. Only 7 months until she is 16. I can't wait.
Don't call him. Don't email him!
Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 14:30:53
In reply to Re: fallsfall? » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 10:45:10
Funny Bones!! I (sheepish) don't know what they are :( . (Maybe we don't have them here?) We do have Gummy Bears, but that might be a little cannibalistic...
I am going to have to research this CBT and psychodynamic stuff. I guess I haven't paid too much attention to it. Thank you for telling me what you know about the two, and your experience with both of them--it's very helpful. Was your last therapist then, the one who practiced CBT? And was she the one you eventually had problems with?
This guy is very action oriented, and now that I think of it my pdoc (who referred me) said he does some kind of therapy with a lot of initials (I thought it was more than CBT but maybe that was in there...maybe something with 'rational'?). It's a time limited or time conscious approach, rather than open ended, forever working out your issues approach. The first time we met he asked how long I thought it would take to have me 'up and running' eg. I said I couldn't answer that, he said 'six months'. Well, if that were true it would be a miracle, but I didn't say that. I am going to say what you suggested next week. I'm not afraid to tell him, but I couldn't exactly articulate it for myself. I feel like he really doesn't take my issues into account, but that may be the way he works, which is kind of ironic. Let's deny the issues because they aren't working for you. I mean there is something to be said for not 'indulging' in your issues or using them as crutches, but like I said before, if I could just lay my life out in five easy steps I think I would have done it. I would see him twice a week if I could afford it.
I think 40 hours a week working would be way too much for me right now. I would be trying to get work in my field (the one I'm too afraid to talk about until after my next and final test in October). My biggest problem is that I have utterly no self-confidence--shocking, isn't it? You and I could sit through the same class and learn the same thing, you could get a C (not that you would, of course!) and I could get an A and I would come out thinking you knew the material and I didn't. This has plagued me my entire life. I know that nothing will magically give me the confidence I need until I actually start doing the work, but the fear is...paralyzing. To just pay the good doctor and be able to go get a job because it's a good idea leaves me a little dubious.
I wish I could meet your stubborn little 15 year old! I bet I coulda matched her...
Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 14:32:57
In reply to Re: quick jump in on your conversation... » kara lynne, posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 8:53:27
Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 15:05:42
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 14:30:53
http://www.bageloasis.com/drakes.html
They also sell such treats as "Ring Dings" (chocolate covered chocolate cake filled with cream), "Funny Bones" (like a Ring Ding but filled with peanut butter cream filling), Yodels (a cream filled, chocolate covered rolled up cake) and of course I can't forget "Yankee Doodles" (named after me, these are like cupcakes with cream filling but no icing). I suspect that a chocolate Yankee Doodle is like a Devil Dog but in a different shape.
Drake's has been producing quality baked goods for more than 110 years. Founded in 1888 by Newman E. Drake, the company makes the popular Devil Dogs, Yankee Doodles, Funny Bones and Ring Ding brand snack cakes.
http://www.madeupnews.com/news/news_090102_devildogs.asp
I'm not sure they are available all over the country, and I don't remember where you are living. I am in the east, and we have them here. If you can't get them, I'll send you a box, but not until the weather is cooler!
Yum!
Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 15:20:36
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 14:30:53
Here is a more complete description of CBT vs. Psychodynamic: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030814/msgs/251465.html
Yes. My first therapist (the one I had problems with) was CBT. But I had at least 7 good years with her. The first day she saw me she estimated that I would need 6 sessions. 8 1/2 years later I left and I still wasn't done. Sometimes they don't quite know!
Are there parttime jobs in your field? Is that something you could look into?
Self Confidence. That's a hard one. You need a cheering section and a fan club. I'll join, but you would have to tell me what you have done that I can cheer about. Something tells me that you would have a hard time identifying those things. This is something that a CBT therapist should be able to help with.
Here's a cheer for the thing you did today that you didn't tell me about:
Yeah, Kara
Go Kara Lynne, Go Kara Lynne
Yeah, Kara!Gee can you tell I was never a cheerleader?
Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 18:24:47
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 15:20:36
Something tells me that you would have a hard time identifying those things
!!!!! and may I say...!!!!!
Just an hour ago my other counselor was saying self-esteem is measured by work; your life's work, if not literally how much you work. By that measure I should have exactly 0% self esteem. She also said my ex therefore had no respect for me, but that he thrived on that as well. He made sure to foster my insecurity and then attack me for it. She said if I had stayed with him I surely would not have ever done my 'life's work'.
Well I wish I had exited that relationship with a bang instead of a whimper. They say success is the greatest revenge--I would just love to be so busy with my new life that I didn't notice his pathetic emails, and have it get back to him somehow. But that is a dim dream.
Yes, I could think about part time work. Any work would be huge step for me.
Thanks for the cheers--I don't think my therapist is so good at that. I'll have to ask him about that confidence thing.
Posted by Dinah on August 27, 2003, at 21:04:04
In reply to Re: fallsfall?, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:41:55
Sounds like your therapist went to the same therapy school as mine. I love the global pronouncements. Mine said "You just have to work, even when you're not feeling well." Well, gee. All my troubles are solved. I would have never thought of that without his expert assistance.
But he has many fine and useful qualities as well. :)
Posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 0:24:45
In reply to Re: fallsfall? » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2003, at 21:04:04
Well I am still looking for this therapist's fine and useful qualities...
But I really don't know what to make of those global pronouncements. I feel like I'm paying my alter ego to tell me I should be doing things which I already know I should be doing.
I'm not sure I can afford that!
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2003, at 6:50:07
In reply to Dinah, posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 0:24:45
Exactly. I have a punitive enough conscience as it is. And if I was slacking off on telling myself those things, there are those in my life who'd be happy to assist me. I don't need to pay my therapist to do it.
I don't see where it's a terribly effective intervention. I wonder if it is helpful for *some* patients.
By the way, is that Rational Emotive (or Emotion or something) Therapy? RET? If I'm remembering correctly that once concentrates on doing the right thing to feel better. But I may not be, I'll look it up. Whatever you find out his orientation is, you might want to do an internet search and see if it sounds helpful to you.
Mine is a rather short term CBT therapist for the most part. But I don't think he'd go so far as to put a time estimate on it. I asked him the other day if I was seeing him under false pretenses. I came in with pretty standard anxiety disorder which should have responded well to CBT in a few months. And here I am years later. He told me that he had always thought I would benefit from long term therapy, and congratulated me for having the courage to do the hard work. Well, I don't know how honest he was being, but it was nice to have another of those self blaming worries out of my mind.
Posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 15:09:09
In reply to Re: Kara Lynne, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2003, at 6:50:07
-And if I was slacking off on telling myself those things, there are those in my life who'd be happy to assist me.-
Oh yes.
Maybe it is Rational Emotive, I'll have to look it up myself. But this idea that in 6 months-- last week it was 3 months (ask me if I felt rejected) I'll be functioning entirely differently in my life is just a little hard to believe. I really did feel rejected too, I feel like he's not even touching the deeper issues. He's just saying, 'Get a job, you'll feel differently, you'll attract different people', and that's all folks.
Well I guess he'll find out about me soon enough. If he's got some magic potion that can get me moving past a lifetime of emotional paralysis, he's some kind of wizard.
At least you like your therapist (and he likes you) enough to have stayed together for as long as you have. Personally it seems like those relationships are the ones where you can develop the most trust.
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 28, 2003, at 16:23:22
In reply to Re: fallsfall? » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on August 27, 2003, at 21:04:04
Without work I have no identity, purpose, routine, friends. I'm capable of work because it's being home ALONE that scares me. Being alone with myself and my negative thoughts is dangerous. Work = money = independence so that I don't have to depend on anyone. Depending on someone = being let down. Work can be a wonderful thing.
:)
KDi in Texas
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 28, 2003, at 16:25:57
In reply to Dinah, posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 0:24:45
When he makes those global pronoucements, refer to him as "Master of the Obvious". It was a joke between an online friend and myself and it always pops into my mind when someone states something obvious.
KDi in Texas
> Well I am still looking for this therapist's fine and useful qualities...
>
> But I really don't know what to make of those global pronouncements. I feel like I'm paying my alter ego to tell me I should be doing things which I already know I should be doing.
>
> I'm not sure I can afford that!
This is the end of the thread.
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