Psycho-Babble Social Thread 254661

Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Screaming again...

Posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 9:13:37

Sorry - I had to share the following. This is my roommate's email to me that results from the email I got yesterday from her saying she might be moving "sooner rather than later." I told her that she should do what she feels she needs to, but that I just don't want her to leave me hanging.

***********
Although I feel that "you do what you have to do", but in this case, I can't honestly do that. I try to take into account how my actions with moving may or may not affect you. I dont want to cause any more stress, hurt, harm, whatever in your life than I already have.

I don't have to or need to do anything- just thinking ahead. We have talked about it, and like I said the other day, I am willing to make it work if you are- unless things change otherwise. I have no problem with staying til Dec or even being there after December for however long. As I said before, I may be getting my aunt's house or the house in xxxxx. I moved basically to help you get on your feet when you got here seeing how your situation wasn't too steady and not knowing what would happen with you personally, financially, professionally, or academically. As you know, I didn't want to move at first and can afford to live alone. After you approached me with it, and I thought about it, I was ok with moving.

And moving was fine and the time has been ok. There have been a few spats or whatever between us, and I have dealt with it. I think our friendship has changed somewhat by living together. I am willing to work on things if you are willing to work on things- especially if you HONESTLY think you may not have it together financially to live alone by the end of the year (or Dec 26 rather). I just do not want to get to the point with you (and our friendship) of having "had it" (or had enough of it) and not give a s**t anymore what you go through or have to deal with or consequences of whatever- and I
have reached that point with xxxx, xxxx, and several others in my life right now- even with some of my family. I honestly don't want to get to that point and you know, and hopefully you knew this already, I would do anything for you that I could!
************

Do I make too big a deal out of her saying things about how she didn't want to move but she did it for me? Is it just me, or does this make it sound like she's just been doing me a favor this whole time???

I certainly didn't want to inconvenience her so much...

I'm such a nuisance.

December can't come soon enough.

P

 

Re: Screaming again... Penny

Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 10:54:46

In reply to Screaming again..., posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 9:13:37

Yes. She clearly said that she moved in with you for your benefit. But she also says that she is willing to be flexible. And she says that she doesn't want to lose your friendship.

Sounds like she has some ambivalence. Personally, I have trouble with ambivalence. I like my world black and white. But, I think that ambivalence is probably a better way to go. Can you see it that way? That there were good things and bad things - and hopefully, in the long run, the good things are more important than the bad.

This is really hard for you. Good Luck

 

Horse hockey!!! Penny

Posted by Kar on August 27, 2003, at 11:59:16

In reply to Screaming again..., posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 9:13:37

Penny- damn I wish i had read your threads above. I only know a little bit of the Roommate Saga. Wow, it's amazing how you can make a decision about someone from a 3rd party description. I think this woman is unbelievably...God I can't even think of as word...Selfish...hurtful...obnoxious...i don't know where to begin. I'm mad and i don't even know her. I experienced a similar situation with a friend of mine quite recently so maybe it's a sore subject anyway...

>I try to take into account how my actions with moving may or may not affect you.

Um hmm. Yeahhhh...ahem...

>I dont want to cause any more stress, hurt, harm, whatever in your life than I already have.

This is how this type of person "works it"...she's the kind one, you're the screw up...

>work if you are- unless things change

Once again, it's conveniently on YOU. And it shouldn't be.

>moved basically to help you get on your feet when you got here seeing how your situation wasn't too steady and not knowing what would happen with you personally, financially, professionally, or academically.

Now that's just painful to read. Penny, i've read your posts...(not, unfortunately, many about this roommate)and i like you...I can tell you are a good person with a kind heart. So excuse me if i'm repeating what's been said.

>As you know, I didn't want to move at first and can afford to live alone.

Translation: "Let me remind you that I've done you a huge favor and I will always be able to use this against you for devious means if the case should arise"...but of course the means are not presented as devious, so once again, you're the bad girl.

>I just do not want to get to the point with you (and our friendship) of having "had it"

Well thank goodness your "relationship" is still intact. Adn thank goodness too, that she forgives you for being such a burden. Are you going to the movies together tonight? grrrr.

>I would do anything for you that I could!
Oh yes, she certainly has.
I'm still mad. But a diet vanilla coke will help me get over it. DOn't worry.

I think we'll have a Babble Party not for the holidays, but for your impending parting of the ways. She is not a good person and a friend would never ever ever behave so heinously (is that a word?).

A good friend of mine said to me, (after i "broke up" with my other friend just like your roommate in many ways), at this point in our lives we don't need to deal with all of the b.s. that a supposed "friend" supplies. life is too short. you are too good a person.
so sayonara
nice to know ya to her!!!! um not.
I think December is looking really good.
Now for some diet vanilla coke.

(oh, and...you're much better a friend than she could ever be because you'd never be so incomprehensibly callous. Find people that deserve you. She doesn't.)

 

Re: Horse hockey!!! Kar

Posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 12:41:06

In reply to Horse hockey!!! Penny, posted by Kar on August 27, 2003, at 11:59:16

Kar,

You have so totally summed up exactly how I felt after reading that message. I am infuriated. I am so tired of being the one to blame. I am so tired of her not taking responsibility for any of this.

We've been friends for 9 years, since freshman year of college. And I should have known it wouldn't be a good idea for us to live together. When I was in college, my best friend and I would keep things from my current roommate because we knew she would want to be a part of everything and we didn't want her to be. We even kept from her that we were taking a spring break trip to Florida, because we knew she would want to go with us.

I am just so angry that she would talk to me in such a condescending tone. Just like Friday night - I told my therapist last night that I felt like she was chastising me. It seems impossible to have an adult relationship with her - everything resorts to drama. She complains about all the drama in her life. Drama with her other friends. Drama with her romantic relationships, etc. I have drama with my family, but it's not nearly this bad, because I have been able to put up boundaries. But she is the main person in my life who creates an obscene amount of drama. I'm tired of heartache. I'm tired of feeling guilty around her and hurt and even scared of her leaving me with the $1000/month rent she said she'd help me pay. That's the big one - the finances - and the only reason that I even attempt to make this work anymore. She knows I can't pay $1000/month on what I make, and she uses that against me. It makes me dependent on her.

In October I get a bonus check that state employees are getting instead of a raise this year. She said that the fee for breaking our lease early (excuse me, MY lease early) is 30 days notice and 1 month's rent. Perhaps I will take her up on her offer and get out of there sooner rather than later. I can't really afford to pay that 1 month's rent, as I would prefer to use that money for the deposit on my new place, and I'm not even sure where I would go at this point, but I really and truly don't know how much more of this I can take. I need to feel at peace when I go home at night, and not worried about how she's going to react to me over something I might've said or done.

Why am I afraid of her getting angry with me?

Why do I feel like such a child in this relationship?

I really can't take it anymore.

P

 

Re: Screaming again... fallsfall

Posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 12:59:06

In reply to Re: Screaming again... Penny, posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 10:54:46

Thanks.

I just feel really taken advantage of and hurt and resentful of the fact that I've put myself in a position to be dependent upon financially (for her part of the rent). If I knew this was going to work out, if I knew she wasn't going to up and leave me hanging, maybe I wouldn't be so stressed about the whole thing. But I don't know that. Her moods and thoughts and feelings about things and her plans change constantly. As my therapist brought up, everytime we have a disagreement, she comes to me with this "I may be moving sooner rather than later" s**t. As though she's threatening me.

I think she does love and care about me, in her own way, but she truly has a history of unhealthy relationships, not just with me but with others too. None of her romantic relationships ever ended peacefully - she holds anger and resentment toward every one of her ex-lovers. ALL of them. Ditto for her friends - she doesn't have a bunch of friends who have hung around her for any length of time. Not to say that it's all her fault - I've seen what some of her friends have done to her - but she keeps allowing herself to be taken advantage of. She lets people walk all over her.

And - I do the same thing. Except that in my case, the one doing the walking is her. And I have to put a stop to it.

I would love to remain friends with her for the long haul. But not the way things are going right now. I need adult friendships. Not to say that things will always be peachy, but just that I won't be in a position to be strongly influenced by her every mood and change of plans. It's not healthy for me at all. As I told Kar, I need to be able to go home at night and feel safe - not having to worry about her being angry with me and dredging up something that should be in the past because she hasn't forgotten about it.

Seriously - when she talks to me, it's as though she's talking to a child. She'll sit on the edge of my bed and use this calm tone of voice and rub my back as I sit and cry because I can't help but think about all the bad things I've done to people and I can't help but think I'd be better off dead and I can't help but think about how I can't take care of myself the way I wish I could.

So - I have to find a way to take care of myself. Emotionally and financially. Because I clearly can't be dependant upon people for anything. I can only depend upon myself - and I have to figure out a way to do that.

In the meantime, I don't know how to approach this - her questions she later sent me about "Why do you want to move in December anyway? Be honest." If I'm really honest with her, she'll be angry. That's how she is. Even if I try to be tactful, she'll be angry. And she will make it clear that I've hurt her. And she will twist my words. I will not be able to be clear enough. Anything I say can be turned against me.

I'm trying very hard right now to put myself in her shoes - to think before acting and before speaking, to not speak to her out of anger, and to be strong for myself.

Yet, I feel so weak. And so afraid. And, I hate to say it, not afraid of losing her friendship, but afraid of being unable to pay that friggin' $1000 a month rent on my own.

I really need a way out of this now...

P

 

Re: Horse hockey!!!

Posted by Kar on August 27, 2003, at 13:47:28

In reply to Re: Horse hockey!!! Kar, posted by Penny on August 27, 2003, at 12:41:06

Penny- you think you are the one to blame because she has indirectly stealthily CAUSED you to feel that way. you aren't over-reacting. I don't really know you or your situation but i know that in my case, being prone to depression, i tend to feel guilty and responsible for things going wrong in relationships. And I'm insecure. SOund like that might be what's up with you?

>I am so tired of her not taking responsibility for any of this.
You said it all right here. She's not taking responsibility. This means that she is, of course, in part at least (ok mostly!) to blame and her behsavior is unacceptable. And you know that. I don't hink it's aboput blame anymore. it's about whether you want to put this much effort into a relationship that seems to cause you to be hurt, mad, guilty and insecure. I might be projecting but it's what happened with me. My friend and I had been buddies for 5 years.

>impossible to have an adult relationship with her
You said it.

> everything resorts to drama.
Same with my friend

>She complains about all the drama in her life.
same

Drama with her other friends.
same
all the same.

>guilty around her and hurt
Well that ain't the way a true friend should act. Ever.

>She knows I can't pay $1000/month on what I make, and she uses that against me.

Power trip. She's probably insecure and needs to feel like she can control you- sounds like she's doing a fine job of picking your weak(er) points. These types can sniff us out like those german shepards wearching for narcotics. oh that was a nice metaphor!

It makes me dependent on her.
I don't know what to say about this part- and crud- i can't read the rest of your letter...
I'll talk to you soon? hope this helped

 

Re: Horse hockey!!! Agreed! Kar

Posted by gabbix2 on August 28, 2003, at 14:13:18

In reply to Re: Horse hockey!!!, posted by Kar on August 27, 2003, at 13:47:28

Penny,
I just want you to know, I'm not one of those people who automatically takes the side of the person they know, in this case that would be you.
It's too easy to say, well its all the other persons fault.
In this case though, your roomate sounds like such a "type" whom I've dealt with before, and like Kar said, sounds so manipulative and hurtful I can't stand her.
She's had the same effect on me too, she's just hit a nerve and I want to come over there and give her a piece of my mind.
(Which is risky, as I may not have much left to give) I really truly don't think you are over reacting. And I'm not just playing 'nice' because you happen to be the one whose posting, not her.

 

Re: Horse hockey!!! Agreed! - Gabbi and Kar (long)

Posted by Penny on August 28, 2003, at 15:23:28

In reply to Re: Horse hockey!!! Agreed! Kar, posted by gabbix2 on August 28, 2003, at 14:13:18

Thanks so much!

I finally responded to a follow-up email to her this morning, where she asked: Might I ask what led you to want to move out in December?? Just be honest and tell me. And seeing your financial situation, if we need to talk about us both staying to make it easier, just be honest and let me know. I surely would think about it and consider it.

My response: I just sense a lot of tension between us and I think it would be better if we were living separately. As I've told you, if
living apart is what we need to do to keep our friendship in tact, then we need to live apart.

[I then proceeded to tell her that my only financial concern was the actual moving and making it through December, not post-move.]

Her response to that (edited somewhat for space!!!): I really don't know how to respond to this... it has totally taken me off guard. I don't know why you feel there is tension between us, but if you feel that way, then you feel that way. You have a lot of issues going on and I just work all the time, but even when I am home, we don't do anything. Are you unhappy with yourself and its easier to just displace it as tension between us?? You haven't been to talkative towards me, and I have tried to give you your space. I don't know what to do anymore for anything. I thought you were doing better, but apparently there are some things going on between you and I that I am not aware of. I can't address things if you aren't honest and open with me about them. I am sorry for all that is going on and whatever I have done to make you feel this way. I don't want you to move to salvage the friendship. I think I am mature enough to deal with whatever and make it through - I guess we need to just talk more about it and work it out or whatever. However, if you feel that there is tension and that there is a possibility that the friendship is in danger by living together, perhaps I just need to move out asap. I don't know where I am going, or what I am going to do just yet. But I am sure I will think of something. I would like to stay put for another year with all the hassel and rigamaroo of moving - I just have no energy to deal with it right now and I doubt I would the next few months. ... It seems you have your move and plans all worked out. I wish you the best wherever and just hope everything is as stressfree as possible - for both of us.

Maybe our friendship is ending and neither of us want to admit it...

Anyway, I have had an upsetting/tearful morning and I guess I need to get somethings done since I am out for about a week.


I responded to her by saying that I did tell her how I felt about us continuing to live together and the tension between us on Friday night, I asked her where exactly she read that I said our friendship was ending, I told her that I AM being honest with her, that I don't have all my moving plans made, that I keep saying December for the move, but she keeps saying "sooner rather than later," etc. etc. I kept it all very factual.

But I did say that if she is so sure our friendship is ending, perhaps there are things she's not telling ME.

Then she wrote back saying she didn't appreciate my yelling at her (the ME was the only word I used in all caps in the entire email).

Can we say OVERREACTING (excuse me, I'm yelling again...)????

Thankfully she's going away for the Labor Day holiday and won't be back until Tuesday. So I have a little bit of a break.

One of my coworkers said I should ask the apartment office if there is a way I can move into a smaller (1 bedroom) apartment that would be less expensive at least until the lease is up, so I wouldn't have to break my lease. I don't know if that's something they can do for me, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

And next time, not that there will be one, I will make sure that *regardless* of who I'm living with, I have a notarized contract with them over rent and utilities payments, so there will be legal recourse in case they back out on me.

Like I said, though, not that there will be a next time...

I'm leaving soon for therapy, and my therapist is going to kindly remind me that I said I wouldn't get into these email arguments with my roommate anymore. And I'm going to say "I know," which is why I TRIED to keep my answers to her concise. And which is why I told her that *this* is why I don't like responding to her emails to me about things like this. But at least it's all in writing, in case she tries to change my words later on...

Sorry this is so long! I really appreciate your letting me know that I'm not totally off-base with all of this.

I just can't wait to move...

P

 

Re: Horse hockey!!! Agreed! gabbix2

Posted by KimberlyDi on August 28, 2003, at 16:46:24

In reply to Re: Horse hockey!!! Agreed! Kar, posted by gabbix2 on August 28, 2003, at 14:13:18

>She's had the same effect on me too, she's just hit a nerve and I want to come over there and give her a piece of my mind. (Which is risky, as I may not have much left to give)<

gabbix,
i laughed and laughed at that one. thanks!

penny,
many a friendship has been lost while trying to be roommates. i waited too long to kick mine out and if i NEVER see my ex-bestfriend (since 1983) again, it'll be too soon. some friends are best in small doses. others weren't really friends in the first place.

it sounds to me like she's being all nicey nice and understanding (if you don't read between the lines) because she wants to justify to herself that she's not the bad guy. i would ask her to stay until the end of the lease, as she should, but AVOID her as much as possible until then. Get out of your place and start finding a new affordable place.

you are in a difficult spot.

but, you don't have to fight. you don't have to talk. you don't have to listen to her justifications or cutdowns. when an ex-boyfriend sent me hateful emails, i realized that i don't HAVE to read them. why let him hurt me?

you can do it. :)
KDi in Texas


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.