Psycho-Babble Social Thread 221053

Shown: posts 8 to 32 of 35. Go back in thread: losing it i think...(((hugs)) - bats... » lostsailor

Posted by IsoM on April 21, 2003, at 23:32:08

In reply to Hi kara losing it i think...(((hugs)), posted by lostsailor on April 21, 2003, at 0:35:30

Ah, poor Tony. Strangely, I've gotten to the point that I'm really glad to be single. Have been for 6 1/2 years now & still don't tire of it. But if one's never had a relationship, it shines all the brighter. I'm not cynical or anything but just content in my circumstances now. I wish I could send you my contentment.

Is Aurora fixed? Maybe that's the answer? ;)
Be glad Aurora isn't like my old, now passed away kitty, Taco. He used to catch the bats in our attic. We had a wrap-around porch & at dusk, he'd sit on its roof right by my bedroom window & snag the bats as they flew out the narrow crack by the chimney. One quick swipe of his paw & he'd get it. Then he'd carry the bat over to my sons' open bedroom window & crunch them up, wings & all, while my sons gagged at the sounds. He caught one or two every night during the summer.

So, see? If you really do have bats in your belfy, don't let Aurora know or it may trigger her hunting instincts. On the other hand, if she caught them all, would you feel normal or would it all be empty? If I didn't have myself to talk to, who would listen?


Taco!! =^..^= That's too cute. (nm)

Posted by kara lynne on April 22, 2003, at 13:34:36

In reply to losing it i think...(((hugs)) - bats... » lostsailor, posted by IsoM on April 21, 2003, at 23:32:08


lost sailor

Posted by sienna on April 22, 2003, at 17:43:23

In reply to Hi kara losing it i think...(((hugs)), posted by lostsailor on April 21, 2003, at 0:35:30

i relaly lik eyou i hope you are ok. please post when you feel beter cuz i meissed you wile i was gone. i hope you are ok. you didnot post to much. at all.

i hope i talk you soon.


Re: lost sailor--sienna and all

Posted by lostsailor on April 22, 2003, at 23:10:50

In reply to lost sailor, posted by sienna on April 22, 2003, at 17:43:23

Thank you. I know I didn't write too much for all of you, but for me, in me, I feel I did. I love helping here and being helped. Both happen at Bob's joint everyday and it is great even when life sucks. Ya know...?

All of you are grand--sienna; you are "rad," though.
We are glad you are back. I am back too tonight.
I am a lost sailor who's stationary. I may go to "my best friends wedding" on the west coast this summer. I am not sure though. Still thinking. Can't commit and back out. Big day for best friend and his bride; a newer, but good friend nonetheless. What a mess.

They will marry. They will go on honeymoon and leave me one of the cars. I will watch the house if I go, alone in a small city near one of my favorite musical mayhem big cities.

I am so scared. I will see music when they are away and dance with the spirits of friends that are now gone. I want to look up some that are still among the living, but they know me not for who I am now, but for who I was in the past. My how life moves fast.

I may just stay home...b/c I think I will have laundry to do and other important things.



hi sweet tony

Posted by sienna on April 23, 2003, at 15:15:25

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all, posted by lostsailor on April 22, 2003, at 23:10:50

you are so sweet to me. =)

I know exsactly what you mean in what you said. it sound stressfull to go to the wedding but maybe it would be intresting too. somtimes i think is worht the stress to do somthing diffrent. you can allways come home if you dont like it. maybe thats a way to do it. dont committ to anythign then yuo can do what you feel up for? is that possiblle?

i am scared to go where im from to. i dont know anyone there and dont relly rememer knowing many peopel when i was there. i remembnmer a few peopel from high school but not more than maybe seven or eighgt.

and i have looked for friends from the past but ist true that people change. i know im diffrnet too. hmmm, is hard tony. im not sure what is th ebest thing.




Re: lost sailor--sienna and all

Posted by noa on April 24, 2003, at 6:44:34

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all, posted by lostsailor on April 22, 2003, at 23:10:50

Tony, take it day by day. You don't have to decide on the wedding yet, do you?

Tony, forgive me for not remembering, but are you in therapy?

You seem to be so sad lately.

I hope today is a bit better.


Tony...might want to rethink that...

Posted by whiterabbit on April 24, 2003, at 9:00:05

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all, posted by lostsailor on April 22, 2003, at 23:10:50

It sounds like a grand opportunity. I understand your apprehension perfectly, last August I did back out of a trip to the east coast for my sister-in-law's wedding, I had a plane ticket and everything. (This was probably the last straw for my husband - putting up with my irrational behavior - but I still don't regret it. There would have been another "last straw" somewhere shortly down the line.)

But the circumstances were different. I would have liked to go to the wedding, but what I couldn't endure was almost 2 weeks of living with my husband's family, people I don't know very well. I'm notoriously private and require great blocks of solitary time to maintain my sanity.

It sounds like you would be among friends at the wedding, and then you could retreat to an empty house when you needed the down time. Don't worry so much about appearing "different" from your former self in front of old acquaintances. In the first place, I suspect that we are often clueless about how others really percieve us, so there's no use in trying to maintain a certain image that
is probably incorrect to start with.

Then there's the most basic truth: everybody changes. Everybody will be different, not just you. Still, there is absolutely no need to talk about yourself and your present circumstances if this would make you uncomfortable. How do you avoid that? It's easy. People LOVE to talk about themselves. A good part of the time, when others ask you questions about yourself, what they really want is for you to hurry up and finish talking so they can talk. It's relatively simple to be considered witty, charming, and popular.
You encourage others to talk about themselves and you listen when they talk. Bingo, you're a hit.

Lord aren't I the wise old owl this morning. This is great, I can turn my head all the way around to look at the telly without moving my body.

Do what you feel most comfortable doing, dear.


Re: lost sailor--sienna and all » lostsailor

Posted by Tabitha on April 24, 2003, at 11:43:18

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all, posted by lostsailor on April 22, 2003, at 23:10:50

tony.. west coast? southern part? visit me!


tabbycat, tabbycat bakers...

Posted by lostsailor on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:36

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all » lostsailor, posted by Tabitha on April 24, 2003, at 11:43:18

I am bad.
Fur lined cuffs for me,

This is getting “”hotter than Hell””--
no, not the KISS album, either.

Now for an attempt at prose:

““The times they are a changing”” and I don’t know what to do. Yes in the west, but North to you. They live in Sonoma County, which is near Eureka. I have put off any response to him/them for almost a month, not knowing what to do.

I had an idea but was totally afraid to pose it to him (but not her) and wanted to run it by my therapist—former colleague…my what a web I weave) to make sure it was a-ok to say…. They offered me two round trip tickets for the ““affair to remember”” and I don’t want that money wasted if I can’t make it due to my mindset at the time. As we all know, I am single (hint to all!!!…lol) but had been “seeing” somebody in December when they were up last. Of course her and I did not work out, as I can’t seem to trick anyone into loving me again. Actually she was a pretty, kind hearted, BP who would not take her meds and therefore was about as stable as I am though I’m med compliant.

Don’t begin to laugh as it gets better/worse, but I’ll save that for another post. I had to end up end up “terminating” the relationship---such a irony as I WAS a social-worker “”all those years ago””… and Termination was paperwork at that time; now it’s a choice. GOD, it’s me ~tony---listen NOT to Margaret , but to me…

….So, my decision was to offer to “update” the two tickets to “open-ended” ones—no therapeutic puns, please—so that if I did back out, they could be used by them the next time they come to the east. What a disaster that became—worse by far than “”the perfect storm””---he flipped when I mentioned it. Mind you, this is my BEST friend with whom I studied social work with as an undergrad and went on for an MSW. I need to be thankful that Rhonda, also a social worker, was able to “understand and empathize” with my plight/flight…. A bit more than he. How messed. Now, when I update the tickets, which I might not use now to current fight, it will cost about 400$ for the upgrade, plus tux, and gift and money spent while there…I won’t even try to add as I am scared. All I know is I am not manic and can use credit cards now with rational…I think. Please don’t ask about …forget it…lmao

I mean, I would not use two tickets unless (@ like 500$ each) I thought that the person I was dating was “worth, it“ and being careful for all those who are reading this “private” post, it to THEM, not me—as in, although not financially/mentally stable @ the time, I would have no problems with my conscience taking even a male friend…ect) if it were my money but it’s much different with theirs.

God, I wish Aurora would dispense my meds soon….


Re: tabbycat, tabbycat bakers...

Posted by lostsailor on April 24, 2003, at 19:33:17

In reply to tabbycat, tabbycat bakers..., posted by lostsailor on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:36

all those double quotes and not one "hit"---you owe me not a cent for that post, bob...hehehe


Re: all those double quotes

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 25, 2003, at 2:55:48

In reply to tabbycat, tabbycat bakers..., posted by lostsailor on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:36

> This is getting "hotter than Hell"
> "The times they are a changin" and I don’t know what to do.
> They offered me two round trip tickets for the "affair to remember"
> I WAS a social-worker "all those years ago"
> worse by far than "the perfect storm"

Sorry about that, somehow it forgot about curly quotes, but it's fixed now.



Tony's tentative trip - a thought? » lostsailor

Posted by leeran on April 25, 2003, at 10:50:03

In reply to tabbycat, tabbycat bakers..., posted by lostsailor on April 24, 2003, at 19:31:36

Tony -

I don't know where you live, it sounds like you're on the East Coast.

Right now, Southwest has some great deals (I just opened up the email to copy and paste this here).

Fly anywhere Southwest Airlines flies*, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Saturday for $39 to $99 one-way with a 14-day advance purchase.

Southwest flies into Oakland, Sacramento, San Jose and even Reno, NV (I was just looking at the map and trying to figure out the closest way to get to Eureka - I'm in Southern California and don't know anything about that area).

Perhaps a ticket on Southwest would be less than those upgrades and your friend and his fiance could use the tickets for another trip (maybe to see you sometime?).

I responded (butted in?) because I always get so freaked out about going anywhere and all the options/planning can immobilize me to the point that I don't even want to go (a day trip to Vegas a few weeks ago even unnerved me).

Reading your post, it sounds like one of the sources of your angst is the escalating costs of the tickets.

Maybe a cheap flight on Southwest might be an option?

I feel for you, it's a lot to get worked out!




Posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:22:03

In reply to Tony's tentative trip - a thought? » lostsailor, posted by leeran on April 25, 2003, at 10:50:03

Cost is a factor, yes.
The commitment is much bigger, though...

I mean how is it his fiancé, whom I have know less than a year, can be more empathetic than he. Added info---I held his hand for almost two years in school after he left/tossed out (of) the Navy on psych. terms. --Honorable medical discharge.

I also don't want to be "alone" for that week. In reality, like my analyst said it's his $$$ for the most part. I could be an as* and just promise without caring about the consequences and TRY hard but without guaranties.

On top of that, what do I do in one of the most romantic cities for a week alone. I mean prostitutes are fun and all , not like "I'm leaving las vegas"--one of my favorite "love stories" It may sound perverse, but both eliz shue and nick cage really "understood" one another in ways that others could never...

Also, the Golden Gate Bridge is the # uno suicide spot in the world...fact --- I am too much an optimistic coward (is that any oxycotten--I mean moron).

And HE will NOT come see ME...I must go see him...although we get together when he comes up for family holidays and all, it's me that must "reach-out " to him....why can't he just see me as me; the way I have seen him only as him...

I am torn...I could just take a ton of valium or xanax but it's more than that---plus doc said we can go into the "special meds" if needed and of course I could call if there was a prob--so much more. I am scared and want to go when I am ready, relax with them, go riding--we are all into bikes--in the redwoods and I thought about shooting down the pacific highway after.

i know I beat on my-self but it would be so easy to look up an old concert friend from the area, have fun, prob even have se* , but that's not me anymore. Hell, maybe I could just ask Tabitha to come as a friend. If she is lucky I may even be willing to "put-out" if I remember how it's done...


And no, you are not budding in at all and ty for the investigative work...




Posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:39:23

In reply to Re: lost sailor--sienna and all, posted by noa on April 24, 2003, at 6:44:34

I am sad. I went from a mental health provider to recipient--what a switch. My old carr. is now in shambles thanks to my brilliant idea to "self-disclose" to a supervisor/"friend" and things that happend after that.

I am probably the most gradual grauate student in history. In fact, I need to try to protest being tossed from my MS program due to time resraints, though I have always maintained at least a 3.5 or better GPA. Doc has even had to get into it with letters ect. He is the best. My advisor and her hubby who is also a prof or on my side, but they do not have tenure status, so they basically speak blanks...

I have never really been single and, although I flirt, don't really even know if I want the bother of another relationship now/ever.

It is odd and I usually go from one love to another (usually all long term comment about me and my neurosis, or just said: I may not be the best catch in the sea, BUT I am not something you just toss back, either"

Not to self-stroke my ego, but weirdness aside, I am a great b/f, lover, partner, fiancé...I just wish I could find someone that is worthy of me and I of her....

I have been praying for your family just so you know....



Observer of the wedding » lostsailor

Posted by leeran on April 25, 2003, at 20:27:42

In reply to leeran..., posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:22:03

"I also don't want to be "alone" for that week. In reality, like my analyst said it's his $$$ for the most part. I could be an as* and just promise without caring about the consequences and TRY hard but without guaranties."

Hi Tony/Me (and Aurora if she's around),

I want to write a little more later, but I've finally puked my guts out (in the literary sense) in another post after hanging around here for a month trying to figure out what the h*ll I'm doing here and I'm feeling rather drained (but in a good way, I think).

Yet another epiphany today - I'm not here to HELP everyone else (which is why I originally wrote the other post I'm referring to), I'm here to help myself - my least favorite person in the world.

Does everyone have a day when they stop being an observer here and become a participant? I've interacted - but I haven't participated until today because I've been guarding myself and my feelings. Today I let it all hang out. It feels better than going topless in Jamaica all those years ago (something I barely do in my own closet these days). How's that for a little tittilation, my (new) friend? It's true, I could bare my breasts to the world on a topless beach but could never bare my soul.

BUT, back to you - and what I copied and pasted.

Would I be going out too far on a limb to say that (from reading what you've written) it sounds like your best friend might need an audience for the wedding. I don't mean an audience in the traditional sense. Two out of three of my weddings had audiences, and most weddings do have an audience. Right/left - her side/his side.

By "audience" I mean that perhaps your best friend needs for you to SEE him get married. At first, when I pasted this I was thinking in more negative terms, when in actuality, a light bulb just went off. You said you helped him after a military discharge, and you're always there when he makes it into town to see his family, etc.

Could it be that he desperately needs you to SEE his wedding in order to somehow validate his happiness? It sounds like you've been there for him through thick and thin and perhaps he equates (or attributes) some of his emotional success to your ongoing support over the years.

Perhaps he likes himself better through your eyes than his own. I sure know I like my husband's version of me better than my own!

What I keep reading between the lines is a lot of pressure being exerted that makes you feel squeamish. It sounds like your role has always been that of a valve release for him, meaning, you're always there when he blows (his top, his navy career, etc.)

So, here you are: Flying across the country (or part of the country), having to negotiate airports, leaving your pet, figuring out what to take, spending more money than you anticipated, and just in general, going through a lot of rigamarole to "watch" him have fun, and in a way, pass over the torch of responsibilty that you've carried with him to someone else who sounds like she's very understanding of your situation.

I'm putting myself in your shoes based on what you wrote. This is how I would feel - but I debate about going to Big Lots.

I think your friend's needs for you to be there and your needs for self-preservation have kind of collided.

As someone who lives in the "Golden State" and has to fly to either the Midwest or the East Coast to see family I know how it is. Even my husband dreads all the extraneous "baggage" that goes along with traveling, and he's the King of Serotonin!

As I get older (sniff) I like my routines. I like my bed, my washclothes, my remote control, the stuff in my refrigerator and my own car. Even driving a rental car for a few days can disorient the heck out of me when I get back home!

Plus, I'm a selfish ***** and sometimes the anticipation of the trip can do me in as much as the trip itself. Then I feel all passive/aggressive, used, PMSy (poor me syndrome-ish), and I'm worn out before I ever get to the destination.

SO, after all that nonsense about how I would feel if I were in your shoes . . . how do you feel??? Perhaps most importantly, what are the stakes?

If you don't go, is it going to damage your friendship immeasurably? Is part of the weirdness of going accompanied by the unspoken knowledge that the dynamics of the friendship might change once he is married?

Maybe you're like me. You want to say to him (and even to yourself) that you're NOT going, then have the freedom to say, "Awww, what the h*ll - I think I'll go after all" if you're feeling better as the date approaches. All those six-week cheapo fares are hard on a hand-wringer like me. I "what if" myself right up until the rates go through the roof - then guess what, I'm too cheap to buy the ticket - LOL! What a clever web we weave when we wish to deceive.

What I'm "reading" in your post is that you're feeling like you don't have a choice or that you're feeling slightly pressured or obligated and maybe you would just feel better if you felt like you had some control back in this situation.

The last big IF is the one my husband and son remind me of constantly: Will you feel like you've missed something if you don't go?

So many times I've heard -

"Mom/Lee, you always SAY you don't want to go but when you get there, you always have a good time, and you would never have known IF you hadn't gone"

If your friend and his wife-to be are going on a honeymoon immediately after the wedding then you will be making a long trip to spend a good portion of it alone - or trying to drum up some action (and I don't necessarily mean that kind of action).

I can see why you're so torn. I go through this EVERY SINGLE TIME I know I have to go fulfill an obligation on the other side of the country.

In closing (maybe someone has already suggested this, or maybe you've mentioned it before) -

Could you somehow convince him that they could experience the joy of their wedding TWICE if you came out AFTER the fact. Then you could spend actual time together (not weird "wedding" time), i.e. riding bikes, watching the wedding video, toasting them over dinner, looking at the photos and hearing all about the honeymoon.

Just some thoughts . . . ?


p.s. I won't write later ;-) I ended up blabbing it all out in this post. Oh yeah, and although I understand the unique connection that existed between Elizabeth Shue and Nicolas Cage, I can never condone a movie that opens with a puke scene. It goes against my neurosis (smile)


Re: leeran... all that will open I

Posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 21:05:42

In reply to leeran..., posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:22:03

BTW...I have NEVER been with a prostitute---just realized it may have looked that way. Don’t fret, my friend, you did not imply that in anyway…lol

Leeann, most of what you say is true. Esp...the last minute "guess what, I'm coming" thing...I just don't think he should guilt me into this.

This could and in reality, most likely would be stressful but fun. Can I equally tell him, I'll be there for sure if you simulcast it or have web cam on hand.

I don't know if you know as you said you are a bit new, but I am agoraphobic---that is the biggest problem. I mean I run or ride everyday, go out with close friends occasionally and was even in a 4yr engagement with someone in another country...truth be told and doc is a bit puzzled by this as I am, I do a lot better in BIG (NY, Toronto, Boston and therefore assume SF) than in lil" ol' Buffalo...

I feel like I am being coerced and that's what I don't like. AND every time I see him I get the( "I got better you can too, thing) His was acute stress in the military, mine--most likely- is more genetic. Over the yrs, doc has actually formed an opinion of him that is not the nicest--one of superiority!! He has done what I have not done yet and loves reminding me about it. Now that’s pizza with all the toppings…

I am as puzzled as troubled , i guess.

Maybe I should just ask them to do it in the park of my condo and I'll either come down or watch from the window. And another point of your---a very good one--is that this will be my first trip there and first time to really meet his soon to be bride and would like to spend "quality time" with them. She totally gets it, why can't he???

Also, there has been mention it being great for a good friend that "they" (made by him---who does not like her native cali family, which I am sure would not loot the house) can really feel compfy with me "taking the dog to the park (golden gate, SF and all that) and be certain that nothing will be trashed at the house upon return...THAT comment alone almost made me hang up the phone.



Re: leeran... » lostsailor

Posted by leeran on April 26, 2003, at 16:29:24

In reply to leeran..., posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:22:03


I wrote a big old response to this last night, and almost finished - but then the Ambien kicked in and I literally fell asleep for a minute at the desk before I woke myself up saying "huh?"

I must have been responding to something one of the voices in my head was b**ching about :-)

In a semi-catatonic state I went upstairs and watched MTV with my son and ate an entire carton of strawberries then went to bed (all sugar turning into all fat in the land of nod). BUT, I did save what I wrote in Word before I went to bed.

It's not much, just a few disjointed thoughts in response to your post about the wedding conundrum.

So I'll finish it and post it for your perusal when I get back from a walk (it takes me forever to get ready to do the simplest things, but you might understand this).

I hope you're having a good Saturday in Buffalo, or "there-abouts!"



Re: leeran... all that will open I » lostsailor

Posted by leeran on April 26, 2003, at 19:32:17

In reply to Re: leeran... all that will open I, posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 21:05:42


You've never been with a prostitute???? Well, neither have I. So, now that we're settled on that . . . ;-) (As an aside - I didn't even think about it one way or another when I read that - but if I would have had to bet I would have gone with "nay, grasshopper,” besides, after reading about your night out I don’t think it sounds like you’re one to have to use Mastercard for that kind of purchase).

Re: this house sitting gig, am I getting the feeling that you're feeling kind of used in addition to everything else that’s going on? Sort of like your friend is killing two birds with one stone - and you're the stone? Housesitting is an interesting concept. I had my best friend’s son housesit one time and I remember thinking it was a “privilege” because (a) he was a very responsible senior in high school and had never had much time away from his mom (b) I thought my house was the coolest place on the planet (not the house I live in now, but before I moved out here).

Maybe said friend thinks that a week in his house without having to pay for a hotel is kind of like renting one of those villas in Jamaica or something? He may think he’s doing you a favor by handing over the keys to what could become a “swinging bachelor pad” for a week (and he just worded it differently on the phone).

Sometimes friends/family think that those who are single want to jump at certain opportunities, when in fact, it’s just the opposite. Friends/family tried to impose this type of thing on my husband during the five years when he was single (by the way – single, sans girlfriend, and celibate for five years until I pirouetted into his life donned in my emotional straitjacket).

It sounds like you’re going to have to decide how much of yourself you’re willing to allocate for your friend at this point in your life. I choose carefully those overnight trips that I know will "take a lot out of me" in the process. Example: going to see my parents is agony and it leaves me depleted for days (the trip, the weather that’s either too hot or too cold, my mother's four pack a day smoking with the windows closed, etc.).

On the other hand, going to San Francisco with my son and husband can be invigorating and relatively stress-free, and San Francisco is such a great place . . . there’s Fior d'Italia in North Beach (America’s oldest Italian restaurant complete with one of Tony Bennett’s gold records of “I left my heart in San Francisco”), Ghirardelli Square, Haight-Asbury, and if you like to skateboard I can tell you all the inside places that my son scouted out when we went there last summer (it’s highly doubtful that you are a skateboarder but just in case . . . )

Then, there’s always “The Nuptials in the Condo Courtyard” option. Maybe they can babysit Aurora while you mosey down to NYC.

Hey, and If they do a web wedding give everyone the URL and I'll put on fresh pajamas and paint my toenails for the occasion!

What does Aurora say? (I know what Val would say).

By the way - I just love this one line from your other post:

“I may just stay home...b/c I think I will have laundry to do and other important things.”



Re: noa....

Posted by noa on May 1, 2003, at 16:51:07

In reply to noa...., posted by lostsailor on April 25, 2003, at 19:39:23

>>I have been praying for your family just so you know....

Thank you, Tony. It means a lot.

Mom is doing a bit better each day, it seems.


lostsailor's wedding dilemma

Posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 15:29:33

In reply to Re: noa...., posted by noa on May 1, 2003, at 16:51:07


When leeran speaks about being asked to do things because we are single I can relate to that by being asked to constantly babysit my neices and nephews because I was the only one in my family not attending a social function. I wasn't going because I couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't, didn't want to attend because of depression.

Just some ideas:

a) maybe your best friend just wants you to be
at his wedding;
b) if you got married, would you want him at
your wedding;
c) maybe your the only one he trusts to housesit
and be amongst his private things;
d) maybe you'll meet your future bride at his
e) probably I haven't got a clue what I'm talking

Having said all this I find it hard to go across the street to the store and get cigarettes, which is about the only thing that will get me out.



Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma

Posted by lostsailor on May 5, 2003, at 9:56:00

In reply to lostsailor's wedding dilemma, posted by maryhelen on May 2, 2003, at 15:29:33

Sailor is forming a finale opinion today.
It will be done with therapist,
(so it may not be my own.
I will use ?I? statement, though)
so I don't just come out as too pis***
I think you know the word

I'll post later to all interested...

My friend, whom I love dearly,
will have to deal with fact
at this point
if I came
I would be a flight of spite.

What a way to celebrate love...

I really feel as though he is pushing me into it instead of inviting me knowing the stress level I have told him about and that he knows I suffer from in general. I mean doc, without even a wink , said if you can have but one drink --and nurse it--100 mg of valium would be fine on top of normal meds and a few prns. The funny thing is even my shrink thinks he?s putting me in a precarious position, not by the invite, of course, but by my attempts to be honest with him which truly took courage. God, I think the blushing bride and her family will hear the jingle of pill bottles before even seeing me..eek. I am fine with her re that but friends of theirs and her family I feel a bit funny about?

Abcde?s in a nut shell...

a) maybe your best friend just wants you to be
at his wedding;--he does, I know that, and, for that, am happy and truly honored.

b) if you got married, would you want him at
your wedding; Yes and no--I would love him to be there (though I will probably never marry--lmao) but not at the expense of his mental health, which he has a history of., too.

c) maybe your the only one he trusts to housesit
and be amongst his private things; this is a tough one and you just made me proud to see it that way.
I do wonder, though, how my new friend, his fiancé, feels about him NOT WANTING (caps meant) her family in the house alone. On top of that, I am a terrible snoop. =J

d) maybe you'll meet your future bride at his
wedding; That is a really nice thought and I don't really know what to say.?(would it be easier if I was in love and ?she? was there with me. Yes. Is that sad/bad?)

e) probably I haven't got a clue what I'm talking
about. You have a clue. Definitely.

I am going to write him a letter or call them tonight, which I prefer to be honest b/c I think she knows me better in a year than he in 20. I don't mane that in the harsh fashion that it may sound, but there are just so many factors it seems.

I like the ideaup-dating of the tickets and am going to that as part or their gift. As for my flight, I would rather pay and feel ok if I can't make it. I know I am obsessing on this. I am just so scared of ending up in a hospital while there. San Francisco is the city of angels and I see my- self in a tight white jacket instead of a tux. Now that I find scary...lmao



Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma .. maryhelen

Posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 13:24:53

In reply to Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma, posted by lostsailor on May 5, 2003, at 9:56:00


In all seriousness ignoring my other post...

I read threads on these boards more than I post. I usually find many answers through doing so, but lately I have written a few.

Depending on which med I am on at the time, it allows me to either sort through the humour and the wit and to try and figure out what comes through as being a truly serious statement about the truth or simply humour and wit wrapped around the truth trying to avoid it.

In your last post you said you were so scared of ending up in a hospital there, followed by, San Fransico is the city of angels and you see yourself in a tight, white jacket instead of a tux. I'm on new meds. Are you really serious about ending up the hospital.

Going to this wedding is a major issue for you. I have not been able to attend many social functions in my family for 15 years. Weddings, funerals, family picnics, birthdays, etc, etc.. I have a large family of 9 brothers and sisters and 54 cousins who try to remain close. When I first started to not be able to attend I had all the feelings of guilt, yes shame for my illness, but more so the absolute inability to get it together enough to go. Against great resistance, and no understanding, from my mother, I stuck to my guns. Really the choice wasn't mine, the illness made the choice. I know my mom likes to keep up appearances and what ever would she say about reasons for her daughter's abscences. What would others think. I usually try to be their for Christmas and Mother's Day, but that is always with a few percocetts under my belt.

I never thought I could stop worrying about what other people thought of me but basically I have.. I need to do what is best for me. The funny part is no wedding was cancelled, funerals went on without me, birthdays, family reunions all went on I was probably forgotten in a moment.

We have to do what is best for ourselves. If others don't understand that is their problem, not ours. By the way, you mentioned in an earlier thread along the lines that if you met up with people you knew from before would they think you had changed and know you are different. You might be surprised, even if others appear 'normal' that they are going through their own hell and existence. I often hear about friends from my past from my sister and they are suffering with depression, similar illnessess, drug addiction, horrible marriages with abuse..... None of us are immune.

You can share the memories of your friend and his new wife after they are married.

If your friend knows the stress he is putting you under by inviting you and pressuring you, then he is not giving you the respect he should. (I am going to invite to to my wedding but I know what you are going through. If you can't make it I will completely understand and do not want to put undo pressure on yourself). Might be one way of putting it if he is your best friend.

You have to think about what is best for you, not him.

Can you imagine, if you decide to go, the stress you are going to be under as the wedding gets nearer and you are closer to getting on that plane. You may be in a white jacket where you live and not in one where you are going.

Take care,



Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma » lostsailor

Posted by leeran on May 5, 2003, at 13:35:25

In reply to Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma, posted by lostsailor on May 5, 2003, at 9:56:00


I've thought of you quite a bit the last few days. I didn't know the date of the wedding so I was even wondering if you had decided to go.

Something occurred to me as I was reading your post. It's probably an overstatement of the obvious, but I feel compelled to say it anyway:

I think those who are single, either by choice or due to other circumstances, have a real obligation to be their own caretaker. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone has that supreme obligation, but sometimes, as we've talked about here before, single people get "guilted" into doing things that everyone else thinks would be "best" for them.

I get the impression that (at this point in your life) you wouldn't even consider the notion of hopping on an airplane and spending a week in San Francisco on vacation. I'm creating the scenario here of San Francisco just being another city on the map - not the home of your friend.

Why wouldn't you do this? For all the reasons you listed in your post, the most important of which (IMO): "I am just so scared of ending up in a hospital while there."

There's safety in numbers . . . and I understand your dilemma completely (as I'm sure everyone else does as well). If you were currently involved with someone this trip would be a completely different story. You would have some company on the flight there and back, you would have someone to hang with at the wedding, etc.

I think it takes some real practice to learn to like to travel alone. I've always admired people who enjoy solo vacations. For myriad reasons, I'm not one of them.

You are torn between pleasing this friend (who you've helped so many times before), and preserving your own health/well-being, which shows me (an onlooker) what kind of a wonderful friend you are to others. You've obviously been a great friend to this fellow for many years - and you will be a great friend for many more to come. But for now, your timetables are in opposition. It doesn't mean that you're any less of a friend, it's just a simple matter of timing. Ultimately (again, IMO), friendship shouldn't become a hazard to one's health. You worded it perfectly when you said:

b) I would love him to be there . . . but not at the expense of his mental health, which he has a history of., too.

And as far as meeting your future bride there, well, speaking as someone who spent two years navigating a cross-country relationship every other weekend - "it ain't easy" for people who don't like getting too far away from home to carry on a long distance relationship.

The other side of the coin is: what if you went to the wedding and missed meeting your bride-to-be on the running path five minutes from your condominium on the one and only day she took a different route?

Actually, I don't think you can look at this (any of it) in a "what if" manner. My father has always said "if my aunt would have had ***** she would have been my uncle." Sorry to be so crude - but it's one of those catch phrases I use when I find myself what iffing too much.

It sounds like you've made your decision based on very sound reasons. You're taking care of yourself first. Amen. Church is over, gather up the hymnbooks. That's why the flight attendants tell us to put our oxygen mask on first before we attend to our child.

I'm going to be sending you loads of positive thought waves tonight. I'm sure the call will be difficult, but not as difficult as making a week-long trip that you've felt so apprehensive about.

And although I think you would probably look adorable in a tux OR a straitjacket, in order to do so in the City of Angels you'll have to come down my way ;-)

I'm glad to see you back and I'm happy to hear you've come to your decision. And "just say NO to guilt!!!"



Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma .. maryhelen » maryhelen

Posted by leeran on May 5, 2003, at 13:43:55

In reply to Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma .. maryhelen, posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 13:24:53

"I never thought I could stop worrying about what other people thought of me but basically I have
. . ."

Maryhelen, if there is a pill for this, I need to know what it is . . . but I know in my heart that this is what therapy is all about.

I'm so encouraged to read that it is possible!


For leeran, what people think of ...

Posted by maryhelen on May 5, 2003, at 14:18:17

In reply to Re: lostsailor's wedding dilemma .. maryhelen » maryhelen, posted by leeran on May 5, 2003, at 13:43:55


There certainly is no magic pill to take to stop worrying about what other people think of us.

For me, I can't even say that I came to this point in therapy.

It has been an evolution, and a slow one at that, since my first hospilization in 1981. Over these many years of lying about my ilness and being ashamed that I have it, I have learned that I did not ask for this, I am tired of the stigma attached to mental illness, especially when I have seen people working so hard to get well, myself included.

I decided that, although it would be in a small way in the scheme of things, that anyone I know at work, friends, certainly family, will get an answer from me that I have depression. You would be amazed at the support and encouragement you could get because their either: are suffering from it themselves, or a parent is, a friend, etc. They welcome the chance to talk to me about it. This includes telling parents (I am school secretary, if they ask when I have been off on several leaves). That is the riskiest one of all but their response has been the same. If there are some that are judgemental I do not care and I find out, I don't care. What does it matter what that person thinks about me.

Maybe, it was easier for me because I knew I was amongst people who cared about me to begin with, but I will tell anyone if the situation arises.

I am too tired, it has been such a long battle, another med change, to worry anymore about what anyone thinks about me. No one is better than me because of their status in life or money, etc.. The funny part is, though, all of my energy is spent hating myself and thinking I am a poor excuse for a human being, that I am weak. I put the thinking of others onto myself. Yet, I have such respect for the courage of those to get the help they need and fighting, sometimes, what seems an never ending battle.

I just felt that, if this stigma that makes me so angry is going to change, then I, at least can do my small part.

I hope this post isn't too disjointed, this new med it getting to my head.


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